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As ET has already mentioned, ~3hrs away in Suffolk is SMJ Audio (fabrication) ..... Give me a yell if your interested in some cabinet help.Hey ET, hope all's well!
I've been occasionally following the Ardent threads and this one might actually convince me to pull the trigger on a new build...
- getting tired of rebooting crossovers
- have a line on a planer 3 and probably shouldn't run it through the LIO-8 on principle
- just realized it's been ~10 years since my last significant build 8O
- craigj appears to be onboard from the other thread, so will be just like old times :evil:
- getting tired jon's builds so might as well try one of yours :W
- started pricing out the TM driver cost and this build makes really good financial sense, oh wait, nevermind...
now, if only someone could help build a nice cabinet within a few hours of DC...
what a fortuitous confluence of extreme meteorological phenomena :storm:
SUBSCRIBED
SteveComment
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Yeah if traffic is moving 3 hours and 15 minutes could happen. The worst part is getting past Fredericksburg on 95. Then the pains of 64 from Richmond to Williamsburg and the two lane woes. Anyways the drive was worth it to see the Caliope and Steve’s workshop.Painter in trainingComment
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DFAL
Dark Force Acoustic Labs
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Hey Steve, yeah the comment was certainly with you in mind based on your other thread. Really nice work you're doing!
I managed to make my Arvo's from scratch, but those were much easier cabinets with no angled facets...and probably don't even qualify as 'cabinets' since I forgot to put a back panel on
PM inbound...Comment
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Got your PM Jim .... response on the way. Thanks for the kind words by the way.Hey Steve, yeah the comment was certainly with you in mind based on your other thread. Really nice work you're doing!
I managed to make my Arvo's from scratch, but those were much easier cabinets with no angled facets...and probably don't even qualify as 'cabinets' since I forgot to put a back panel on
PM inbound...Comment
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LF Alignment tests will be ready soon...
The first of several LF test alignment cabinets is nearly finished. This is being assembled to test a concept alignment as shown below...
The test Passive radiators arrived yesterday..
Passive radiators are being considered to extend the low frequency output capability as regards SPL and extension, without the space and other penalties of a ported configuration, particularly a downward facing port's interference with the most convenient place to locate crossovers in the cabinet.
Besides.... I like the color... it matches my clothing well...DFAL
Dark Force Acoustic Labs
A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy IndustriesComment
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They are very black.What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.Comment
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the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....Comment
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Ripping operations complete
In spite of several disturbances in the Force, some progress was made and I can now report that all piece part ripping operations are complete, and the table saw is being taken to off site storage.
Additional fabrication support hardware and more tools have been obtained...
Events are unfolding at last as I have foreseen...DFAL
Dark Force Acoustic Labs
A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy IndustriesComment
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Most excellent news, your Lordship! As your latest cheaper-and-more-deadly-than-a-Death-Star-but-perhaps-include-slightly-code-in-the-navigation-system weapon continues in its development, is there an opportunity for a Bothan spy to acquire the Proof-of-Concept plans? Wavecor is on the Rebel Approved Manufacturer List, while Accuton is not (yet)...Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.Comment
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DFAL
Dark Force Acoustic Labs
A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy IndustriesComment
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Very much appreciated! One follow-up: in a volume/baffle area/budget unconstrained galaxy, would a 2xSW223BD02 in series + a single SW233BD03 for bafflestep be interesting/viable? Asking for a Stormtrooper with bad aim.
I might as well throw another follow-up into the mix (so I understand how Unibox is doing the math): would this be in a ~50L cabinet fully stuffed, or would the sim work in smaller (holding to a BW alignment)?Last edited by Bear; 21 January 2020, 09:15 Tuesday.Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.Comment
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Two caveats.
One. The driver sets must be in separate acoustic spaces, as regards the rear chamber.
Two. A key point behind the .5 way concept is reducing the effective CTC distance by having only one driver work all the way up to the midrange crossover frequency. By that reasoning, the one driver should run up to the midrange crossover, and the two drivers should be the 0.5 crossed lower. Getting the balance right might be tricky...DFAL
Dark Force Acoustic Labs
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Thanks for the heads-up. Using the singleton as the "main" woofer makes sense definitely makes sense, and I hadn't drawn the right conclusion. By my math, the paired 'BD02s are about ~2dB more sensitive than the single BD03, and that's the opposite of what I'd desire from a 0.5 driver. This looks like it would work in about 35L net with about 1.75lbs of stuffing if my math isn't off. Handling the DCR on the woofers is making a big variability in my numbers.
This is continues to be intriguing.
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.Comment
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Continuing to pedal in EvilTwin's slipstream...
Going with doubled-up walls would make this no less than 12" high. Dashed lines are individual sections of LBL, with a 3/4" roundover on all edges. As-drawn, this would be 11.25x26x11.25 (HWD). However, depth is obviously the most variable, depending upon volume needed. To that end, I'd potentially replace the 'BD03s with BD02s. Hmm.
The downside of further pedaling (before getting shelled out of the peloton and abandoning) is that several of those smaller inductor values are ... challenging. Unwinding is possible, but the combo of inductance and DCR may prove fatal to my curiosity.Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.Comment
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Is this a center channel for the Ardent D build that This thread is about?Painter in trainingComment
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Bear is bringing his hopes and dreams based on drivers and options we have discussed; this thread is not primarily about a center channel solution, but can also include one or two possible efforts on that path also.
The POC crossover evaluations have been done with the specific Wavecor woofers he is interested in, but the primary build is using Accuton AS168. A secondary evaluation is underway with Anarchy 708.DFAL
Dark Force Acoustic Labs
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Let's not get us both force-choked.
I'm simply musing out loud about what would be a significant divergence. Spiritually linked, but ultimately a different design. Pick an aphorism:
It's easy to think that you're tall when you're standing on the shoulders of giants, or
This is my grandfather's axe. My father replaced the handle, and I replaced the blade. This is my grandfather's axe.
My relocation from TX to CA has also required me to start over with my sound system, and the sound bar I thought might be an interesting intermediate solution... isn't.
To shed some additional light because I'm feeling guilty about having derailed what will be another of the reference-quality designs: I was lucky to grab a few SW223s on-sale at Solen (perhaps their last sale since Parts Express has picked up Wavecor) based upon the success of the Ardent Wavecor design and subsequent discussion of an even lower cost version. The Ardent Wavecor is not a large speaker as a tower goes with its capabilities, but it is deeper than I would like. And that was before relocating from the Land of Large Houses to perpetually housing supply-constrained San Diego. When you are paying $500+ per square foot of living space, living spaces tend to be small, and that has to factor into the design considerations (taller is okay, but giving a speaker "space to breathe" is problematic).
My prior system had Clearwave (Jed, before he exited this forum) Minuet5 MTMs across the fronts (SS 15W4531G + SS 6600) and ER18DXTs for surrounds. I was never quite satisfied with the price/performance ratio of the center channel (laid-down MTM, with $600 in drivers plus almost as much in a crossover). One can get a more traditional WT/MW center channel design, but those tend to be pretty large (woofers need volume). The Wavecor SW223s seem to break that barrier a bit, though with a substantial sensitivity penalty (81dB/84dB sensitivity vs 88/91dB typical for 8" woofers).
My easiest path forward is to build a set of TMs for Left, Right and Surrounds. For a center, I can build an shorter TM flanked by the SW223s, and use a standard electronic crossover to just treat them as normal subwoofers until I can work out a three way passive crossover. That way, I can bin the soundbar quickly, while heading toward "version 2.0". Those familiar with software development will understand what my expectations are with that effort...
So, in the spirit of the *Camp threads, where there's typically been a lot of teaching involved, I'll be mindful of not giving people the impression that I know what I'm doing with respect to crossover design. EvilTwin's rough drafts are better, and more thoughtful, than my finished products.
The center channel concept is probably better suited for a separate thread or for a much further time in the future once the core design has achieved a higher level of completion. Of course, I am always grateful for any knowledge of The Force that milord is willing to impart. I feel like I've learned a lot over the years, but have much, much more to learn.Last edited by Bear; 25 January 2020, 10:14 Saturday.Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.Comment
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Considering your concerns and restrictions on space, I would even be inclined to recommend dual Anarchy 558's with the RS52 and DA25. After some recent testing, this is now a serious consideration for a small but effective center channel. However, the tweeter form factor is not ideal... so, small, is a relative concept.DFAL
Dark Force Acoustic Labs
A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy IndustriesComment
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I had hoped that the T25 series would be available by now. They look like a pretty magical combination of form factor, performance and price. However, they are currently only a little less available than the 7" Anarchy woofers. Which is to say, I can find neither for sale new at the moment (though DIYSG does have the 5" available... lack of specifications notwithstanding).Yevgeniy and Brandon have each mentioned a waveguide for the T25, so that may prove interesting at some point in the future. The upcoming MD60N mid dome will fit into the RS52 cutout, but it, too, is not yet on the market. And then there's the TX series of Satori woofers. Yeah, I may just have to go through some inventory reductions. Moving sale, anyone?
Humor aside, I have heard someone say that at some point, you just need to build something. I'm in Vancouver this week (eh!), then back to SD. I need to swing by the SDFWA shop to get some more details, and then I'll hopefully decide on a direction. I'll probably start with a stereo pair of TMs that can be moved to surrounds as I fill in the more complex fronts.Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.Comment
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That sounds like a reasonable plan... one can spend too much time overthinking things, and not working with any hardware or listening to the results...
The BlieSMa T25 could be ideal, but only if it is actually available for purchase... I have pairs of both the aluminum and beryllium original model, but have been holding off on using them for some planned high efficiency designs in the queue. I also have Anarchy woofers of all types. Some people have the temerity to suggest that I am some kind of hoarder... I consider myself a conserver of resources that plans ahead for future projects...DFAL
Dark Force Acoustic Labs
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I am altering the design. Pray I don't alter it any further.
Circumstances beyond my control have delayed certain work phases, but now matters are moving forwards once again...
I am making running changes to the design based on my Force Intuition and inspection of materials and capabilities.
As there will be no top bevel in this design, and to put the acoustical center of the midrange driver higher up, the positions of all drivers on the front panel have been raised. Additionally, after review of the materials and available working dimensions, the length of the front baffle and cabinet panels has been increased from 40" to 41". This was implemented in the top and bottom bevel cuts.
The tooling was carefully checked before being employed, and square results were verified, along with the finish of the cut.
The lead lines and dimensioning for the facet cuts were carefully transferred from the printout to the baffle, along with the angular setup, and the illuminated cutting guide used as always to assure precision results...
On both sides.
It is a time consuming and expensive way to "generate sawdust".
DFAL
Dark Force Acoustic Labs
A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy IndustriesComment
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Be careful not to choke on your aspirations...
Clearly we are making progress today... but there there is much left to do, and many opportunities for error before completion.
Rough sanding and shaping the top surface is quite straightforward...
The upper facets were cut so precisely they still had a bare trace of the pencil lead showing on the front before starting sanding...
If my light saber had been available, that small error might not have occurred...
A minimal effort was required to rough sand the bottom bevel and facets and edges, and now these front panels are complete...
completely ready for the next assembly step...DFAL
Dark Force Acoustic Labs
A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy IndustriesComment
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"It is a time consuming and expensive way to "generate sawdust"."
Yes, but the by product of the sawdust is beautiful and very promising indeed. Now that I have a Bosch gliding miter saw I really should take up one of these tapered projects again too. When making Wavecor Ardent I did not have one yet and without it was even more time consuming.
Btw, I'm not sure what is the combo of drivers you did cut this out for in the end?
Waiting eagerly for further progress
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There is another...
These test cabinets will be employing Dual Accuton AS168, RS52AN, and the DA25TX00-08. The intent is completing a stereo pair in the relative near term, so I have better music listening while still living in California.
There is another test mule cabinet somewhat farther along (the complete rear shell is fabricated, only the front panels remain) which was created to also test cone midranges, (though RS52 can also be used) and it will be used to evaluate configurations with the A708 and the PTT6.5W04-01A. The SB15CAC was/is a candidate, but now I am also curious about the 554, and have a tentative Duelund configuration for that driver... but it would require one of the BlieSMa tweeters, in my opinion...
Additionally, both woofer and midrange test cabinets are nearing completion for doing IM distortion tests. with my Audio Precision analyzer to evaluate BL force linearity and surround behavior, as was done by HiFi Compass. The woofer test cabinets will be using the RSS265PR as planned in some of the assembled systems, and this phase will include verification of the modeled LF system response generated by Unibox and VituixCAD.
To ensure consistency of procedures and results, all the test DUT's will be readied and tested at the same time. A complete renovation of the test hardware has been underway with an update in the audio test interface to a more modern Motu 4 using SABER DACs, also with reasonably high grade microphone preamps (which the TC Konnekt was selected for and did have) and a new MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt 3 to replace the 6 year old model with Thunderbolt 2, which had to use a dongle interface to connect to the Firewire TC Konnekt that I have been using over 10 years. I have two ACCO 1/2" calibrated microphones now, and this may open some additional testing options.
For midrange evaluations, I propose to double or quadruple the test frequency- for example, instead of 30Hz + 255Hz for the woofers, 60 or 120Hz for the low frequency, and 510 or 1020 for the upper frequency.
I will also attempt CSD comparisons, to develop a wider base of objective measurements for driver comparison.
This is merely an experiment, and may not produce any definitive results... but my Force Intuition says it may be interesting... most interesting.DFAL
Dark Force Acoustic Labs
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Cross-cutting a couple inches of maple on angle without burns? Imperial technology tuned and handled with precision.Comment
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Actually, 3" of maple ply...
after cutting that material, as I remarked to Steve Sunday night, 3/4" LBL bamboo is like a hot knife through butter, and BB ply seems like tissue paper.DFAL
Dark Force Acoustic Labs
A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy IndustriesComment
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The blade I have been using with the DWS780 is the DEWALT 12" DW7661 80T laminate blade; this is a thin kerf version with a 12 degree tip angle and 0 degree hook, selected for the ability to produce very smooth cuts, especially in laminate or material like laminated bamboo ply, for which it was primarily purchased. It has worked very well with maple ply for the Kurosawa build and this new experiment.DFAL
Dark Force Acoustic Labs
A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy IndustriesComment
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Now, the best part of the week....
I love the smell of Porter Cable Routers in the morning...
DFAL
Dark Force Acoustic Labs
A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy IndustriesComment
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interesting - searching around doesn't turn up a lot on the DA32, but what is there seems to be at least tentatively positive. will be interested to see what ET measures.
Looking again though, that Dueland alignment doesn't seem to put any more stress on the tweeter than LR2@2k - both are -20dB at ~600Hz. There are some preliminary measurements of the DA25 and DA32 LR4@1.4Khz here http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...10#post1381410 and both seem to be holding up ok, if not exactly spectacularly. level is 103dB @6", or about 88dB@1m (I think). The 32 definitely is looking more comfortable between 1k and 2k, but the 25 isn't waving the white flag just yet.
(LR4@1.4k seems to be about as demanding as the Dueland target down to 700Hz; since we're already 20dB down, hopefully this is a relatively valid comparison)Comment
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This correlates well with the extensive measurements I've made for the DA25. I am primarily concerned about how difficult it will be to control the ultrasonic resonance and minimize resonance amplification of distortion products- that has been quite successful with the MT test design for Steve.
Thank you for the link to the other measurements- it's my usual practice to test at 90 dB and 96 dB for a tweeter like this...DFAL
Dark Force Acoustic Labs
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Well, now that Steve's pile of oddly-shaped wood is looking much closer to a few really nice subwoofer enclosures (congrats Sven), it's likely time to begin to turn his attention to some Ardent D cabinets.
Plan for this build is based on what Jon is listening to in the living room right... -
With the weather conditions finally replicating the ones in CA the time is right to finally replicate the Wavecor Ardents up here in north
I do love the Fusion 360 and it's CAD -> CAM -> CNC machine workflow. I started things off with the front panel milling jobs. My machine... -
Besides rip cuts, of course!
Got this one.
https://web.archive.org/web/20100316...le_saws/BTS12S
It was the cheapest one I could find, so basically, the only one I could justify buying. :lol:... -
Alright, another stupid question. But I'm that secure with myself so whatever.
Buy a table saw?
Or possibly a radial arm saw.
I used to have a radial arm saw and if you needed a table saw, you just pull the saw out, turn it, and lock it in. It basically... -
Hi
About to start a new sub project. The plan is to build two independent subwoofers based on rythmik audio servo system with 15" woofer and their 600w amplifier.
Some year ago (2005/2006) I built a furniture sub using 18" Aurasound woofer.
https://www.htgu...
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