Ardent D (aka Kurosawa Jr) Winter Camp

[Bear]

That is my supplier for the maple ply- I have searched for others with no success. This build is using two 1-1/2" 564D double planks (these can be ripped for all the materials for the front panel and the bases) and one 563 1-1/4" panel which is used for the top plates with some left over.

NW Bamboo has 26x96 1.5" LBL for similar pricing. They also cut to ship, so I'll give them a try on a different project once I'm back in SD (traveling for the holidays).

This could also be built with Anarchy 708's, but this build is being constructed with AS168 Accutons. The rearward time offset of the woofers is manageable in the crossover, as the posted proof of concepts show, which are actually for the SW223BD03.

Now, going sealed, this could be built with SW223BD, too, with the planned midrange, as there is no large midrange enclosure as is the case with a cone driver.

Would that hold true for a flat baffle? I'm still thinking along the lines of a large, comparatively shallow center channel as I track your build progress. I still need to get my SDFWA membership purchased and work through the shop safety classes before I can start booking shop time, but this does seem most interesting.

And beautiful work, Steve. The bamboo and black paint go especially well together! That also answers my "flat baffle question, immediately above, though you guys can obviously reserve that version for your own purposes.

[Evil Twin]

The SMJ concept for Duelund three way tower...

Mr. Manning has once more been hard at work...

This time showing a certain Dark lord how inadequate both his CAD and design skills are... truly, Steve is turning out to be a most talented Sith Apprentice!


In this case, what he sent me are renderings for his interpretation of a proposed Ardent D implementation- not something I can argue with, other than that I can't possibly build them here with the tools at my disposal...

These are using the same profile and rib section designs as the previously shown MT with the MW19P-08 and DA25TX00-08. We have discussed the possibility of adjusting some of the driver spacing further...











Perhaps if the performance results from the more conventional test build here prove worthy, this might be the next SMJ offering?

[Evil Twin]

That is my supplier for the maple ply- I have searched for others with no success. This build is using two 1-1/2" 564D double planks (these can be ripped for all the materials for the front panel and the bases) and one 563 1-1/4" panel which is used for the top plates with some left over.

Yes, this is not a frugal material build, but then some back of the napkin calculations seem to indicate that the extra spent on materials reduces my labor factor substantially, as well as providing a very stiff cabinet construction.

The finished cabinet width for this and the original Ardent is 10-5/8". That seems to fit in your footprint.

This could also be built with Anarchy 708's, but this build is being constructed with AS168 Accutons. The rearward time offset of the woofers is manageable in the crossover, as the posted proof of concepts show, which are actually for the SW223BD03.

Now, going sealed, this could be built with SW223BD, too, with the planned midrange, as there is no large midrange enclosure as is the case with a cone driver.

I also have cone midrange driver tests being readied, but they cannot track or match the time alignment, so a more conventional crossover would be required.

You could say this is a research project follow up to the NeoD CC. And as to the crossover, well, on earth there is a well known saying- "in for a dime, in for a dollar". To work optimally, the midrange driver and tweeter have to track very closely to a specific amplitude and phase response. (this is also true for the woofer, but due to the difference in frequency range and phase relationships in practice it is not quite as demanding for equivalent results.)

At least with this test build we have the opportunity to save quite a bit in BOM costs for the tweeter and midrange. Crossover expense depends on how much the constructor wants to spend, and what matches up well with the rest of the system.

Of course there will be component recommendations...

I, too, have used a BT3K for a long time, and in fact had what I termed a "Frankensaw" for some time which was an amalgamation of the Craftsman saw made by Ryobi and accessories for the BT3K.

I have two models of DeWalt job site saws; the newer large one (DWE7491RS) being a considerable improvement (in storage in the Outer Rim at this time), but the SawStop seems to be in a very different class, as well it should, as it's in quite a different price class. Initial working experience yesterday and today is quite positive.

The provided blade is relatively decent, but I immediately replaced it with a 90T Freud. After cutting 8 consecutive 42" rips in the 1-1/2" maple ply, the blade was barely above room temperature. Of course, I checked the saw setup, too, and have realistic ideas of what this tool can power through.

Still, very satisfactory.

And the manual and setup is truly excellent. Download a PDF of it if you're curious.

[dwk]

piano pin block maple ply

Hmmm, hadn't run across this before. Like here? https://www.vandaking.com/s-563-pin-block-maple.html Not much if any cheaper than LBL, but I guess 1.5" panels is an advantage.

I'll be watching your progress with the SawStop with interest. I'm still using a BT3k, and while it's still functioning well it seems that they're getting rarer and rarer, and so I probably need to have a Plan B in place since 'buy another ryobi' is probably no longer a viable support strategy. I need something with a smaller footprint due to space limitations, so the typical hybrid/cabinet saws aren't ideal. Would you see the SawStop jobsite as a reasonable upgrade to a BT3k (or at least a side-grade)?

That's a heck of a crossover. Based on the better image in the other thread I count 14 elements per driver for M and T. The Dueland topology is certainly demanding.

I'm back in the 'maybe' category on the new Ardent designs. My original idea of something inspired by the Sonus Faber Elipsa probably has to be discarded as mock-ups show that they're just too wide for the space. My current "I need something in the living room" setup is Kef R3's on top of woofers in the PE prefab cabinets - the result is ~40"h x9"w and seems to work well. I think another inch or 2 in width will be OK, which puts it squarely in the Ardent footprint.

[ergo]

Sawdust in making - that's unexpected with the schedules of the master maker lately but most interesting and great to see. Will be watching with interest.

[Evil Twin]

This is going to be fantastic and I can’t wait to see more progress. Sure hope the design is finalized long before heading to Boise.

I gotta say, I sure didn’t expect to see the RS52.....must be something special about it.

There is... especially for this application.


I expect to have these constructed in a few months... I would rather under promise and over deliver...

But I have made many design decisions impacting the construction specifically to speed building these - such as using a two layer front panel with 1.5" material, instead of laminating up 1/4" HDF and LBL ply and 3/4" MDF. I expect the front panels to be finished in less than two weeks.

[mante]

This is going to be fantastic and I can’t wait to see more progress. Sure hope the design is finalized long before heading to Boise.

I gotta say, I sure didn’t expect to see the RS52.....must be something special about it.

[Evil Twin]

Hmm, I do have some mental challanges in connecting the Kurosawa - that is a design with a lot of elements - to a two elements vented design.
Care to connect the dots?

The Kurosawa is a three way system using a Duelund derived crossover, built with piano pin block maple ply exclusively.

The Ardent D is an Ardent variant, three way system using a strict Duelund crossover approach, built with piano pin block maple ply and LBL bamboo plus BB ply for some interior components.

The Kurosawa is derivative stylistically of the Tidal Akira, just as is the Vimberg Tonda. The Vimberg Mino is derivative of the Vimberg Tonda.

The Ardent D is derivative stylistically of the Vimberg Mino, but will use only two woofers, and will not (for this build) use Accuton tweeter or midrange units.









Just for reference, the Vimberg Mino sells for $31K per pair, similar to the Avalon Indra, upon which the first generation Ardent was derived. Both of these systems (the Indra and Mino) have cabinets built of MDF.

[TEK]

Hmm, I do have some mental challanges in connecting the Kurosawa - that is a design with a lot of elements - to a two elements vented design.
Care to connect the dots?

[Browncoat]

Your work is so detailed and clean. Inspiring.

You must have tolerant neighbors to run a table saw and shop vac on a condo patio! Not sure if you have a track saw, but it changed my life. I have a sliding table saw and still couldn't live without my track saw.

[Evil Twin]

Working in small spaces...

One of the more difficult phases of material preparation is cutting down the 58" x 22" 1-1/2" maple ply to sizes useful for fabricating specific cabinet parts, such as the front baffles and cabinet base.

This is due to the somewhat unwieldy size and the lack of a truly adequately sized construction area- for the moment, I have to settle for the patio area of Jonmarsh's rented condo. This is quite different from the circumstances under which the Kurosawa cabinets were fabricated.


The SawStop job site Pro saw provides more capability than a typical portable saw, and used in conjunction with a roller feed table, larger work pieces can be accommodated than might be expected...






The SawStop has excellent blade shrouding and dust capture, but this must be combined with an adequate dust extraction system; in this case, a 16 gallon ShopVac will suffice. They are powered on separate electrical circuits, as the combined load could be too much under load for a standard 15A circuit.





With the table in the extended position, a 16" cross cut to reduce the main panel to 42" is straightforward to accomplish, with steady hands.





With the Freud blade I installed, the resulting cuts were impressively smooth... and easy to make, once figuring out how to accomplish in the limited space. Two panels were cut in this manner-




Next steps will be ripping and detail work on the front panel sections and starting the sides and backs from LBL boards.

[Evil Twin]

This project has been given a "go ahead" after much discussion with Imperial collaborators...

While I doubt it will prove to be a "technological terror" in the end, it may nonetheless have a certain charm and provide a useful window into musical performances.

It is also part of a planned series of projects to investigate less conventional crossover technologies from both a measured perspective and also by critical listening.



It has reached a certain critical mass due to several factors:



Development of a new cabinet design that is derivative of the original Ardent, not the Wavecor Ardent- this is admittedly part of an effort to engage in "design re-use" and speed the development effort with limited work hours available.






Proof Of Concept explorations have been completed, using actual driver data on similar test baffles, and the potential to reach the desired levels of performance is clearly proven...





Model to sheet construction drawings are nearly complete...






And critical tooling and cabinet materials have arrived...