Official Wavecor Ardent Reference Thread - How we realized the Dream

[dar47]

Antonio,

I too apologized if my comments were off putting, glad your here it's a very kind forum. For me I guess I was trying to fill in the blanks and was unsure if your amp was something like a low powered tube or an older high quality low power solid state amp you just didn't want to part with. If your considering a Ardent build we would love to know what your current setup is and this may help with your perspective. I think with all designs cars included, the designer is trying to achieve a certain goal while not focusing on the small concerns he deems unimportant for the task he is trying to accomplish. So maybe sensitive to this level is not important, but he sure accommodated a benign load for most amps and this was my point. I wouldn't presume to tell anyone to go away if your not willing to replace all your current gear but the Designer did state he was done with PA system type builds long ago so high efficiency to the levels your thinking was missing from the design was not a consideration. If you think others would be put off by the efficiency then what would you like to see done to improve the design.

[Horio]

Antonio,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing your thoughts and comments on these speakers. Obviously most of us on this thread are big fans of this design and have decided the good qualities of the speaker outweigh the low sensitivity. It's nice when a new face shows up and starts asking good questions. It forces us to step back, think, and ask ourselves "is there a way we could further improve the design"? That is never a bad thing.

It's probably only a matter of time before the "wavecor ardent II" comes out. :W

[wkhanna]

Indeed, I was discouraged to attend this forum. A group represents an advantage if it is based on an open and unconditional discussion/comparison......

please know that you are always welcome here.
it is our goal to promote open discussion, always with respect for everyone's various views & opinions.

I hope my little English will be sufficient to transfer the thought.

your English is excellent.

[BobEllis]

Antonio, I hope you read my comments as welcoming and meant to suggest that the low sensitivity isn't quite the obstacle it seems to be at first glance. Sure, with a lot of power you will get a bit more out of the Ardents, but they are certainly usable with lower power. That was my intent, I did not mean to sound dismissive. I apologize if my comments came across that way.

[Antonio Tucci]

Ron, thank you for your statement.
Indeed, I was discouraged to attend this forum. A group represents an advantage if it is based on an open and unconditional discussion/comparison, otherwise it is not a group but a sect.
In general, people's thoughts must always be taken into consideration, without any prejudice or preclusion. If you do not agree, fight the thought but never the person !
I did not say that Ardents are not good speakers, on the contrary, I think they are excellent speakers. I simply pointed up that their low sensitivity may represent a limit.
So, I would have expected replies about that point (sensitivity) and not others (even less … competence and capabilities of the interlocutor).

If I say that a weak point of the Ferrari SF70H is its low aerodynamic efficiency … the team cannot reply with arguments demonstrating the very good characteristiscs of the engine and/or gearbox. A wise and rational reply should focus on the aerodynamic efficiency, "demonstrating" that it is not low at all or, alternatively, that it does not influence the final result.
I hope my little English will be sufficient to transfer the thought.

[DigitalMaven]

All about the tradeoffs

Life is always about trade-offs, isn't it? :W


The key targets for the Ardents were as follows:

• Relativeliy compact form factor, with relativey high WAF (there are always exceptions, but these are much better tolerated than, say, the Isiris, by the fair sex)
• Very low distortion - particularly 3rd order and high order- and like the Isiris, they use a woofer that straddles the boundary between sub driver and conventionasl woofer in order to have some extra Xmax and use a very linear motor with monotonically decreasing distortion wtih frequency for the woofer.
• Good bass extension for the size, with the capabillity with correct room placement (and optimized boundary reinforcement) to have subjectively flat response to the 30's.
• Wide power response- very good off axis behavior
• Under $5K in basic BOM cost

To get significant extensions in low end and some improvement in sensitivity while retaining the very low distortion performance means a much larger system... which blows out the first prime directive and the last one. The core woofer volume for the Ardents is 40L for both drivers. for a moderately optimized PR version, we'd need to push that to 50 or 60. The smaller version of the Isirs (like I have) is 110L for the woofers.




The calculated BOM cost for the original version of these was $10K. This pair is in the middle of an upgrade process, with active drive and DSP equalization of the low end; this will add about another $1.2K to the BOM cost- for now I wouldn't count the brand new updated crossover parts sitting in a box- about 25% more expensive than the original crossover against that BOM. But realistically, this means about $12K BOM cost. It is an open question as to whether they will match or exceed the Dai Katana's... the latter, I here, are using a full Duelund crossover design, which was tried and discarded for the Isiris because of the driver time alignment issues.

Of course, you can get high sensitivity drivers at lower cost than Accuton, for example, but I haven't found ones at lower cost that match the linear and nonlinear distortion behavior. That doesn't mean they couldn't be fun systems for certain kinds of music- having good dynamic range and being able to play loud is a certain kind of quality in and of itself, but I started outgrowing what I would call HiFi PA systems for the home in the 90's, after building a set of Wilson Audio X1-SLAMM clones, which would certainly play loud, but had about a 15 dB lower distortion floor due to the Eton, Focal, and Audax woofers used.

These days, after looking at the driver SPL response and impedance, and freedom from resonances, even minor ones in the pass band (big problem with paper cone drivers still) (just look at the impedance curve bobbles- that's the give away) is all about the non-linear distortion.

Those Accuton AS190 and AS250 drivers are very impressive in that regard, but they don't come cheap...

"What measurements do not tell is the very sound of the speaker unless displaying serious linear distortion. The level of transparency, the ability to resolve micro-details, the "speed" of the bass, etc., cannot be derived from these data. Distortion measurements rarely tell much unless seriously bad, and most modern drivers display low distortion within their specified operating range.
Many people put way too much into these graphs and my comments here are only meant as warning against over-interpretation. There are more to good sound than what can be extracted from a few graphs. Every graph needs interpretation in terms of what it means sonically and how it impacts our choice of mating drivers, cabinet and crossover design.
What measurements certainly do not tell is the sonic signature of the drivers, because cones made from polyprop, alu, Kevlar, paper, glass fiber, carbon fiber, magnesium, ceramics or even diamonds all have their way of colouring the sound.
The choice of crossover topology has a huge impact on the sound we get. We may produce the same frequency response from 1st, 2nd or 4th order filters and they may be Butterworth, Linkwitz-Riley, Bessel and others and they all sound different, very different indeed, so take care!"

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/SBAcoustics-10.htm

[wkhanna]

no intervention required....

you guys are "self-moderating".

[Steve Manning]

Steve,
I didn't intend to scold you, you are one of the nicest members on this forum. (we're all nice guys)
I'm a little touchy because I used to be a frequent poster on another forum DiyAudi 0 but they are a mean bunch who enjoy beating others whose opinions differ from their own. Like being shouted down at a rally by protesters who don't agree with the speakers opinion. (end rant) (getting close to the edge of being smacked by a Moderator there)

I simply didn't want Antonio scared away from this kind, generous bunch of folks on this forum.

Antonio, If you have the skills and can afford to build these speakers including the expensive Xovers, then do it. You'll be pleasantly surprised at their ability to reach the LOW and High at the same time. Plenty of bass for my tastes, it also depends on the recording quality.
Ron

No worries Ron, I did not take it as a scolding and I agree we should not chase good folks off. What I discovered was not to work on job applications and then visit the forum directly after ..... frustration that need not be shared.

[Renron]

Steve,
I didn't intend to scold you, you are one of the nicest members on this forum. (we're all nice guys)
I'm a little touchy because I used to be a frequent poster on another forum DiyAudi 0 but they are a mean bunch who enjoy beating others whose opinions differ from their own. Like being shouted down at a rally by protesters who don't agree with the speakers opinion. (end rant) (getting close to the edge of being smacked by a Moderator there)

I simply didn't want Antonio scared away from this kind, generous bunch of folks on this forum.

Antonio, If you have the skills and can afford to build these speakers including the expensive Xovers, then do it. You'll be pleasantly surprised at their ability to reach the LOW and High at the same time. Plenty of bass for my tastes, it also depends on the recording quality.
Ron

[DFAL Minion]

Interesting ..... I've never heard about the low power requirement for HiFi hobbyists before, my rule book must be out of date. That in and of itself is a shame, since you will apparently miss out on such a wonderful set of speakers.

such direct responses are normally reserved to those whose skill in the Darker side of the Force are keenly refined at the highest level.
it would appear by such displays, this already proven & competent apprentice minion may be predisposed to achieve such a level, should he remain dedicated to his study & training.

[Steve Manning]

Steve,
Ouch, did you miss your morning cup of coffee?

These are Reference quality speakers, you won't find this quality at Best Buy. If you were to compare the Ardents to store bought speakers of same quality you'll likely spend between $30K - $60K / pair. This is NOT receiver amp territory, this is SPARTA!!!

Build the Ardents, use your receiver (they'll be plenty loud enough) oh yeah. Upgrade to a good amp when you can afford it. Then buy a great DAC. HUGE difference in my system when I upgraded my DAC. (Best $83 DAC in the World) Thanks Dar47 / Jon.

Bob's right, again.
Ron

Apparently so ..... my apologies Antonio. The point is though, as these fine gents are pointing out, don't miss out on something wonderful because of a preconception, break some rules and enjoy.

Thanks for keeping me honest Ron ....

[Renron]

Steve,
Ouch, did you miss your morning cup of coffee?

These are Reference quality speakers, you won't find this quality at Best Buy. If you were to compare the Ardents to store bought speakers of same quality you'll likely spend between $30K - $60K / pair. This is NOT receiver amp territory, this is SPARTA!!!

Build the Ardents, use your receiver (they'll be plenty loud enough) oh yeah. Upgrade to a good amp when you can afford it. Then buy a great DAC. HUGE difference in my system when I upgraded my DAC. (Best $83 DAC in the World) Thanks Dar47 / Jon.

Bob's right, again.
Ron

[BobEllis]

Yes, Ardents are a reference system at their price and above.

As for amplifiers, remember SPL is logarithmically related to power. Consider the no power compression case and an amp that sounds good at full power. At 150W, you're 21.7 dB above 1W. That gives you peaks around 103 dB. Sure, you can probably squeak a few more dB out of the Ardents, but do you really need to? In reality there will be a bit of power compression so the output won't be quite as high as theory suggests but it seems pretty minimal.

As I mentioned, I'm running an Aleph J that is ~30W RMS, capable of 50 W peaks. That gives me around 99 dB peak SPL. Not too shabby, although I'd like to have a bit more power for bass heavy or very dynamic music. Maybe I'm just old, but my environment is fairly quiet. I listen at around 70 dB average or less most of the time. Thirty watts is plenty for that. It gives me enough headroom for peaks 30 dB above average. There aren't many recordings that will give you that dynamic range.

Notice that DAR is also in the once you have Ardents you'll want to upgrade everything else in the chain camp. He's already moved up to a DAC a time or two. I'm on my second DAC and third amp and it's only been 7 months.

[dar47]

Antonio, what is your amp that seems to good to part with? With a build like this your material costs and time will be extensive far out reaching the value of any 150w amp. Most builders started with what they have and upgraded as they could afford. I have always believed get the best speakers you can first and build out from there. With this level of performance sensitivity to your goal level was not a consideration and is defiantly not a weak point in this design. They have a very easy impedance curve which allows for reasonably powered amp by todays standards. if your wanting to drive with a receiver then look for something down the food chain. If power draw is a concern there are wonderful class D amps now available for a reasonable DIY build, think Hypex Ncore.

[Steve Manning]

Jon,
Thank you for your exhaustive reply.
I think that the Ardents achieved all the goals you set. However, the low sensitivity remains (but only in my opinion) a weak point, because it represents a limit for amplifiers having less than 100-150W (referred to 8 ohm impedance).
This is a shame because
- a relevant part of Hifi hobbyists have amplifier systems lower than 100-150W;
- the Ardents, for all the considerations you have shown, could represent a true reference system.

Interesting ..... I've never heard about the low power requirement for HiFi hobbyists before, my rule book must be out of date. That in and of itself is a shame, since you will apparently miss out on such a wonderful set of speakers.

[Antonio Tucci]

Jon,
Thank you for your exhaustive reply.
I think that the Ardents achieved all the goals you set. However, the low sensitivity remains (but only in my opinion) a weak point, because it represents a limit for amplifiers having less than 100-150W (referred to 8 ohm impedance).
This is a shame because
- a relevant part of Hifi hobbyists have amplifier systems lower than 100-150W;
- the Ardents, for all the considerations you have shown, could represent a true reference system.

[JonMarsh]

All about the tradeoffs

Life is always about trade-offs, isn't it? :W


The key targets for the Ardents were as follows:

• Relativeliy compact form factor, with relativey high WAF (there are always exceptions, but these are much better tolerated than, say, the Isiris, by the fair sex)
• Very low distortion - particularly 3rd order and high order- and like the Isiris, they use a woofer that straddles the boundary between sub driver and conventionasl woofer in order to have some extra Xmax and use a very linear motor with monotonically decreasing distortion wtih frequency for the woofer.
• Good bass extension for the size, with the capabillity with correct room placement (and optimized boundary reinforcement) to have subjectively flat response to the 30's.
• Wide power response- very good off axis behavior
• Under $5K in basic BOM cost

To get significant extensions in low end and some improvement in sensitivity while retaining the very low distortion performance means a much larger system... which blows out the first prime directive and the last one. The core woofer volume for the Ardents is 40L for both drivers. for a moderately optimized PR version, we'd need to push that to 50 or 60. The smaller version of the Isirs (like I have) is 110L for the woofers.




The calculated BOM cost for the original version of these was $10K. This pair is in the middle of an upgrade process, with active drive and DSP equalization of the low end; this will add about another $1.2K to the BOM cost- for now I wouldn't count the brand new updated crossover parts sitting in a box- about 25% more expensive than the original crossover against that BOM. But realistically, this means about $12K BOM cost. It is an open question as to whether they will match or exceed the Dai Katana's... the latter, I here, are using a full Duelund crossover design, which was tried and discarded for the Isiris because of the driver time alignment issues.

Of course, you can get high sensitivity drivers at lower cost than Accuton, for example, but I haven't found ones at lower cost that match the linear and nonlinear distortion behavior. That doesn't mean they couldn't be fun systems for certain kinds of music- having good dynamic range and being able to play loud is a certain kind of quality in and of itself, but I started outgrowing what I would call HiFi PA systems for the home in the 90's, after building a set of Wilson Audio X1-SLAMM clones, which would certainly play loud, but had about a 15 dB lower distortion floor due to the Eton, Focal, and Audax woofers used.

These days, after looking at the driver SPL response and impedance, and freedom from resonances, even minor ones in the pass band (big problem with paper cone drivers still) (just look at the impedance curve bobbles- that's the give away) is all about the non-linear distortion.

Those Accuton AS190 and AS250 drivers are very impressive in that regard, but they don't come cheap...

[wkhanna]

you will probably want a new amp anyways, after you build a set of these......:W

[Antonio Tucci]

My main problem is the sensitivity. I have an amplifier with 100W into 8 ohms and with 82 dB I fear that it is not enough.

[dar47]

I think Bob nailed it! You want deeper base, build a bigger different speaker this digs more then deep enough for most rooms. If I wanted lower I wouldn't think twice and add a dedicated sub or 2. A new version maybe with a diamond even that is diminishing returns but may be just me with 12+ g's in front of them. 200w clean in front should satisfy anyone, I have 350w. In this form factor I am not sure the guy who designed them could beat them with another effort. :W Maybe lets ask Jon. if I could afford you 400 hours for design time and you couldn't change cabinet size what would you do to beat these, haha.

I can't afford any better in front them but the room and recordings are the weak link now so I am good to go with all smiles!

Wayne and Me are planning a cruise down South on our VFR's this summer through Cali and I want to stop by and hear some other guys builds with their gear so heads up Jon and Ron and any body else close!

[BobEllis]

Not quite sure what you mean. I'm guessing that you're thinking of using at least one other woofer ported to try to regain some sensitivity as either a 3.5 or 4 way. That would require a crossover redesign and likely significant expense. The crossover is already 25-35% of the cost of the build. I wouldn't risk the rest of my performance doing the redesign myself. As we discovered tweaking the crossovers for the -02 woofers, everything ties together. What looked to be simply adjusting padding on mid and highs to match sensitivity ended up changing some component values in all three networks. The real answer to the sensitivity issue is a bigger amp.

The Ardents already reach into the mid to low 30s depending on your room. That's deeper than the design you linked, although maximum output will be lower for the Ardents. What are you trying to gain other than sensitivity? Extension or maximum output? Adding a 15" or bigger subwoofer or two actively crossed at 40 Hz would probably be a better solution. Tympani and pipe organs are the only instruments that make me wish for more extension.

Another idea that's been mentioned in a "what's next for Ardent development?" thread (sorry, I can't remember the title) is adding passive radiators. Either a quartet of Wavecor 9" (ouch $$$$$) or a pair of Scan (?) 10" (on an 11" baffle?) would add some output and extension capability. It won't help the sensitivity and I wonder if the extension is needed for music. But it does bump the bottom end performance numbers slightly. It still won't get you to the low 20s for pipe organs and LFE though.

[Antonio Tucci]

Aah...ok
Thank you for pointing that out.
Now I understand the reason (the compromise) for the low sensitivity of Ardent.
Probably, the solution utilized by Troels Gravesen in some of his (high-level) speakers (http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Illuminator-4.htm) could represent an alternative solution. In his realizations, in fact, he employed a sealed box for the high-bass and a vented box for the lower bass section.
In this way he was able to contain, in a certain way, the size of the speakers, without sacrificing too much both the bass extension and the sensitivity.
Is a similar solution hypotizable for the Ardent?

[Renron]

and about 3x the money! :W

And worth every penny.
Bob is SO correct that every upstream component makes a huge difference. I've used a Pass F5 to drive the Ardents (50w) and they sound fantastic, but the Amp just isn't powerful enough. 250W Honey Badger does the trick just fine thou. Plenty of power for dramatic music like an Orchestra. With the Ardent's design it's Pay me Now & Pay me Later. But the rewards are worth the expense. Quality always comes at a price.
Ron

[JonMarsh]

Hoffman's Iron Law is the governing factor here- bigger cabinet, (much bigger cabinet!) and a Helmhotz radiator concept (PR's) and lower net impedance (about 3 ohms versus 8 ohms as regards combined driver impedance) accounts for the sensitivity gap (that is, how much SPL for a given voltage)- that, and about 3x the money! :W

[BobEllis]

Sensitivity with the currently available SW223BD02 drivers is around 82 dB/2.83V. The bass drivers are 83 dB/2.83V, add 3 dB for two of them in series, subtract 6 dB for baffle step and crossover losses. That's the tradeoff for relatively small size and deep extension (mid 30s) The -01 drivers are a couple dB more sensitive, but since they are OEM products now, it's a moot point.

[Antonio Tucci]

Thank you Steve.

As to the second question... there was a mistake. What I would like to know is the sensitivity of Ardent (and not impedance).

[Antonio Tucci]

Hi Antonio ....... to answer your first question, I believe you are looking for this thread.

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?43291-Kurosawa-Koncept-System

It's a different speaker than the Ardent's.

Thank, you Steve.
As to the second question... there was a mistake. What I would like to know is not the impedance ... but the sensitivity of Ardent.

[Steve Manning]

Sorry, I have had some troubles with registration process.
As above reported by Kevin,
I'd like to submit two little questions to JonMarsh.

1) In a previous post (11-17-2016, 10:36 AM) in the Thread "Ardent questions", you cited a triple 8" woofers version of Ardent (by Dai Katanna). Could you give some more details (or link) about that?

2) Which is the impedance of Ardent?

Many anticipated thanks

Hi Antonio ....... to answer your first question, I believe you are looking for this thread.

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?43291-Kurosawa-Koncept-System

It's a different speaker than the Ardent's.

[BobEllis]

Welcome Antonio. You'll have fun here.

I'm not Jon, but the answer to your question about impedance is on the first page of this thread. There's an impedance and phase graph fairly early in the thread. It may have changed slightly with the -02 woofers, but most would consider the Ardents 8 ohms nominal impedance. There are dips into the 6 ohm range, but there are plenty of commercial "8 ohm" speakers with worse dips and phase characteristics.

One of the design goals was to make the speakers easy to drive. I'm listening with a Pass Aleph-J clone - a single ended class A amp good for maybe 30W based on current limitations. Sometimes I wish for more power, but not often.

If you are considering building a set of Ardents, you won't be disappointed. Except maybe with the quality of your current electronics. I'm able to hear differences in DACs and amplifiers that I previously couldn't. Without knowing what you have, I suspect that you will start down the path of upgrading everything upstream of the speakers. They are that good, they deserve the best you can afford.

[Antonio Tucci]

Sorry, I have had some troubles with registration process.
As above reported by Kevin,
I'd like to submit two little questions to JonMarsh.

1) In a previous post (11-17-2016, 10:36 AM) in the Thread "Ardent questions", you cited a triple 8" woofers version of Ardent (by Dai Katanna). Could you give some more details (or link) about that?

2) Which is the impedance of Ardent?

Many anticipated thanks

[Kevin P]

Antonio Tucci posted this but he hit the "Report Post" button instead of Reply:

John,
two little questions.
1) in a previous post (11-17-2016, 10:36 AM) in the Thread "Ardent questions", you cited a triple 8" woofers version of Ardent (by Dai Katanna). Could you give some more details (or link) about that?

2) Which is the impedance of Ardent?

[JonMarsh]

Today I had the great opportunity to meet THE MAN behind the mad scientist mask in person. Due to various stars aligning I met Jon and his workmate for a few hour Ardent listening session. I came out of that with heightened motivation to start a build of my own once I get back to Estonia from the continuing US west coast tour.

I have the Minervas playing back at home, but I did feel the Ardents do have an even more clean midrange and highs. Which of course is to be expected from even higher level of speaker units but it is still another thing to get to hear that for real.

We did a very brief trial of the Soekris DAC that Jon had with him. That too seemed a very good value for the $ indeed.

I do thank both of my hosts for the great afternoon and an opportunity to listen to the original pair of these speakers.

It was a real pleasure meeting you, Ergo, and having the listening experience and dinner together. My friend Jens also greatly enjoyed a chance to meet you specifically, and in person another forum member. He reads here frequently, but he's been spending his DIY time on fixing up his Condo- I gave him one of my older DeWalt table saws and a tile cutting saw to help him get started on that two years ago!

I hope the rest of your travel goes smoothly, and the business meetings up North are productive!


Regards- Jon

[Renron]

a rare & special opportunity, indeed.

i can not think of anyone i have yet met who is more generous with his time & knowledge.

True Dat!

Ardents are superb, with extreme clarity and timber.

[wkhanna]

a rare & special opportunity, indeed.

i can not think of anyone i have yet met who is more generous with his time & knowledge.

[ergo]

Today I had the great opportunity to meet THE MAN behind the mad scientist mask in person. Due to various stars aligning I met Jon and his workmate for a few hour Ardent listening session. I came out of that with heightened motivation to start a build of my own once I get back to Estonia from the continuing US west coast tour.

I have the Minervas playing back at home, but I did feel the Ardents do have an even more clean midrange and highs. Which of course is to be expected from even higher level of speaker units but it is still another thing to get to hear that for real.

We did a very brief trial of the Soekris DAC that Jon had with him. That too seemed a very good value for the $ indeed.

I do thank both of my hosts for the great afternoon and an opportunity to listen to the original pair of these speakers.

[Renron]

TEK,
I looked at both MSDS (material safety data sheets) to compare the chemical lists, however, because required data differs so greatly between our countries I cannot determine if there are similar properties between the two wax / polishes. Sorry.
P.M. Sent.

Horio, You'll like it. Just like paint, many thin coats are better than one thick coat. Let them dry completely between coats, give it a light buff then re-wax. I wax my tablesaw guides with it and the bottom and rails of my cuttoff sled, slicker than snot. Also the fence to tablesaw contact areas. Smooooooooth! Sawdust blows right off.
Ron

[Horio]

Horio,
Try out just the wax on a small portion or some scrap to see if you like it. No oil first the wax won't stick to preoiled wood. Sawdust won't stick to the waxed surface either like it would to an oiled wood. Use just enough to fill the pores, you don't want to build a finish with the wax. Beautiful table, good thinking about break-down / storage later too.
Ron

Just ordered a can of the recommended paste wax. I'll give it a shot this weekend and see how it turns out.

[TEK]

Reton, that wax is not easy available in Norway.
Might any of these do tje same use? http://www.liberon.co.uk/furniture-a...Q9NDUmfA%3D%3D

[Renron]

Horio,
Try out just the wax on a small portion or some scrap to see if you like it. No oil first the wax won't stick to preoiled wood. Sawdust won't stick to the waxed surface either like it would to an oiled wood. Use just enough to fill the pores, you don't want to build a finish with the wax. Beautiful table, good thinking about break-down / storage later too.
Ron

[Horio]

Thanks everyone for the very kind comments. I'm definitely looking forward to using this bench for my Ardent build. The big 4 ft by 8 ft surface with the Festool track saw is a fantastic setup for cutting down big sheets. The holes are great for clamping and for using stops. It's a great bench which breaks down quickly for storage, but its still no substitute for a heavy wood bench with a thick top and vises for some tasks. Maybe someday I'll build a Roubo bench and then I'll be set.

Ron, I'm definitely no expert of finishes and I'll look into your Johnson Paste Wax recommendation. I've used linseed oil on all the other surfaces, but the top and outside faces have yet to receive any finish. Would I apply a coat of linseed oil first or do I need to place the paste wax directly on the wood? I love the idea of being able to easily clean up drips.

Thanks!

[Renron]

Horio,
Off topic or not, that is a work of art. Excellent build. It's easy to see how much thought you put into it's design and construction, well done! Beautiful sawhorses too. Put a light coat of Johnsons's paste wax on the table and glue drips will pop right off without damaging the beautiful finish you've created. Works well on the table saw too, wood just glides smoothly, does not effect painting later.

[Steve Manning]

Very nice and of course one has to love the Festool.

[JonMarsh]

Nicely done- I'm almost jealous, in spite of my beech bench from Rockler!

[scottvalentin]

That is a very well done workbench and I can only imagine how good that router works!
Nice job! Looking forward to seeing some Ardent sawdust!

[Horio]

A bit OT but thought I'd share since it means I'm getting close to starting my Ardent build. Basically finished up my work bench finally over the weekend. It's a Paulk style torsion box bench with a few modifications. I've got the woodpeckers PRL-V2 router lift in there and have their router fence on the way. Once I've finished Paulk's cross cut jig, this bench will make cutting down sheet goods super easy and fast.

I also swung by my favorite woodworking store (Woodcrafter's in Portland OR) and picked up a new router!

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