Official Wavecor Ardent Reference Thread - How we realized the Dream

[flamethrower1]

Thanks Jon, what I am going to do is just forward this to him and hopefully that will satisfy his concerns.
Like I said earlier, I am not personally concerned myself.
Just looking forward to the day I have them ready to light up

[flamethrower1]

Jon, your message box is full.
Hey Jon,
Man I did not mean to piss you off, really sorry if I came across the wrong way.
I never meant to start a personal attack on yourself or your professional abilities.
All that happened was he requested the link to the website and then started making a big deal of the graph.
I personally could care what he is seeing or not seeing because I understand what you said about the measurements not being optimal.
Maybe I should have requested it in email with a better explanation.

I sincerely apologise if I have offended you in any way.

Greg

[JonMarsh]

Hey, you haven't bothered me at all! Don't Worry! I just wanted to be sure you understood the physical basis for my statements.

I've emptied out part of the message box, should be room now.

No worries from my side, I'm sorry if I came across at all angry or anything - i'm not- I'm more amused by your friends statements than anything else...

Still, I'd like to send you the Cardas Speaker setup PDF, if you're interested in reading it. I know most of the guys can't follow that kind of guideline for setup, but you ought to do it at least once as just an experiment, so you have some "hands on experience" with the difference it makes.

[Renron]

Link to the Cardas Speaker Set-up PDF.

http://www.cardas.com/roomsetup.pdf

I'll have to try this layout when the wife unit isn't home. It's not WAF friendly. As Jon knows....
Ron

[JonMarsh]

Yes, but it's very "ear friendly". :W :B

[lkaire75]

Hello, I´m new to the forum, just want to say thank you to Jon Marsh and all who contribute to this fantastic loudspeaker design.

I will begin shopping for parts very soon, just want to make two questions: 1) In the crossover schematic for the woofer reads 5.6mh dcr 0.2, but the No.Part 266-916 correspond to 3.5mh dcr 0.2 inductor, just want to know which one is correct, 2) The wavecor sw223bd02 works with these crossover?.

Thank you, Luis Manuel

[BobEllis]

Welcome to the club Luis. 5.6 mH is correct, Jon has been too busy to update the schematic. The sw223bd02 is 2 dB less sensitive and will need crossover adjustments. Again, its something on Jon's to do list but he hasn't had a chance yet. There are at least two of us building these with the 02 woofers. If you're going to join us, I'd suggest holding off on ordering crossover parts until Jon is able to work it into his schedule. The cabinets will take quite a while to build and finish in a manner appropriate for this design.

[lkaire75]

Thank you Bob, i´ll begin building the cabinets, for sure these are not easy ones.

[TEK]

Welcome Louis :-)
Hope you will have a great time building these.
Please create a build thread for you build when you start. Thats a great way to collect information for your self, share experience with others as well as getting input on issues that you might run into during the build process.

And keep in mind that everyone here is doing this for the fun off it - so any dependency on others are dependent on a whole bunch of factors outside of your control.
That said, there are a bunch of people here and in reality you are likely to get better support than with almost any paid service :-)
And we love builds threads with a bunch of pictures :-)

[Alaric]

[QUOTE=Renron;612449]Link to the Cardas Speaker Set

I find myself in the enviable position of being able to implement this. And leave it that way if I choose. I know what I'm doing tomorrow morning.

[JonMarsh]

[QUOTE=Alaric;615219]

Link to the Cardas Speaker Set

I find myself in the enviable position of being able to implement this. And leave it that way if I choose. I know what I'm doing tomorrow morning.

I think you'll like it when you get it setup... :W


OK, guys, I promise to make a push this weekend on continuing engineering issues for the Ardents- I'd do it sooner, but we have a lot of out of town visitors from European HQ this week, and that means long days...

[BobEllis]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to put pressure on you Jon. Rather pointing out to Louis that you're busy and good things come to those who wait. It looks like Ron is going to be ready before me, so give his version priority if you can get either.

[TEK]

I was trying to push on Jon oke:

The poor man has way to much on his plate - so I just try to help him get some stuff out of the way so that he has one less thing to think about ;-)
Sorry Jon h:ops:

[Renron]

Bob,
Don't lay that $hit on me. Jon, you make ready for your company first! Especially Son in law? was it? Enjoy family time it's the greatest gift we can give to each other.
I'm in Zero rush. Bob started before I did, so it's first come..........so to speak. LOL

Luis, Welcome to the Ardent family. If you have any question about anything, post it in a thread you make for your build. We'll all join in the party to help and encourage you if needed. These are not Monkey Coffin speakers which can be built in a weekend, precision early on pays off later. Take your time, enjoy the adventure.
Ron

[lkaire75]

Thank you all, i will start a thread as soon as i have something to show, i was trying to find lbl here in Mexico, no luck there, so i will have to buy it from plyboo.com send it to Dallas and then wait until the guy who get me my things deliver it to me, normally a week. By the way, can somebody tell me where i can buy baltic birch online?

Thank you, Luis Manuel

[BobEllis]

At Jon's recommendation I used these guys http://www.woodworkerssource.com/

[JonMarsh]

Update for BD02 woofers

As posted in Bob Ellis's thread:



This is basically the TA5 (test article 5) release with modified resistors (the RIGHT resistors modified the RIGHT way; they interact differently with the network as some of you have discovered)









However, the value for L1/L1011 (as numbered by VituixCAD) is suggested to be changed from 5.6 mH to 5.1 or 5.0; if you already have a 5.6, use as is (just slightly flatter with the different value) OR if you have an LCR meter unwind your inductor to that value. seriously, just how you have them setup in your room will make more difference in the lower midrange than this.. but this would be the optimum for the BD02.

With regards to the tweeter, two points:

• Using the new values, and if you should want to raise or lower the overall trebel level, do it by adjusting the shunt resistor R6/R3051 or better yet, use the voicing filter (or use the Force, Luke!)
• Second, the dip in the response around 4 kHz is due to a cabinet diffraction effect which goes away as you get slightly off axis - it's not something to fix in the crossover, the power response being radiated by the tweeter is quite steady. You'll also see less of this effect with the grilles and recommended felt diffraction contol in place, but these are from bare cabinet measurements.

[Horio]

Thanks Jon for updating the crossover for the Wavecor BD02 woofers! When you have time, would it be possible to post a full schematic of the BD02 crossover similar to the first post? I'm going to start working on the crossover BOM for my build and I want to make sure I'm using the correct updated resistors and inductor before I order anything.

Thanks

[BobEllis]

Horio, you can take a look at my thread for a BOM. It's missing the 10 uF Clarity MR because I bought it a while back.

In the tweeter circuit in using two 1R5s to make the 3R and a single 3R3. You could use 4 pieces of 3R3 in series/parallel to reduce heating effects.

In the midrange circuit it's a pair of 8R2 in the 4R spot, 2.5% high. The 4R7s are made using 10R, 6% high. You could get closer using a 10 and an 8R2 in parallel but that's on the low side by 4%.

In the woofer circuit Jon had suggested 4 Mills 12W 16R in parallel. The closest available in 15, which results in 4% low. I chose 5 parallel 20R, 2.5% high keeping with Jon's err on the high side philosophy.

Hope this helps

[Horio]

Thanks Bob, your BOM was very helpful. Studying the original BD01 schematic and the updated one Jon posted above, I think I now understand the changes between the two. I'm going to take a swing at marking up the changes on the full schematic, and maybe I'll post it here for comment and reference.

[Horio]

Has anyone ever ordered drivers from Falcon Acoustics in the UK? With the Pound being down, you can pick up 2 x Accuton C90-6-079 and 2 x Scan D3004-6640 for about $1300 US shipped. This is roughly a $400 savings over Madisound at the moment.

[JonMarsh]

I know some one that has, but I haven't. This European connection thing is looking more and more attractive this year...

[Horio]

Well I just pulled the trigger so we'll see how it goes. Once they arrive, I'll have the full set of drivers (already have the BD02's). I need to start making dust soon!

[Renron]

Horio,
Awesome, congratulations. Enjoy the sawdust, it's a fun journey and I'm looking forward to your build thread. Have you decided on a finish? Veneer / Bamboo / Paint?
Ron

[Horio]

Ron,

I'll definitely start a build thread when its finally time to create some sawdust. I've been slowly building a Paulk workbench and crosscut jig which will come in handy for this build. I've also managed to collect a number of nice tools this year as well (festool track saw, dust extractor, and sander). I can source 4'x8' sheets of 3/4" bamboo plywood locally in Seattle at a pretty good price so I may build the entire cabinet out of bamboo ply. I've been wavering back and forth on paint vs veneer. I had been leaning toward a nice painted finish, but after seeing how beautiful your veneer is turning out I am leaning back that way again. I did a raw walnut veneer on my first set of DIY speakers that turned out pretty well. The veneer job on the Ardents is certainly more challenging though.

Realistically I won't get started on the speaker build until early next year, so in the mean time I'll keep stocking supplies and enjoy watching your build along with Bob's finish up. I've been taking careful notes.

[Horio]

SW223BD02 Crossover

Here's version two of the crossover using the Wavecor SW223BD02 woofers with updated resistor values and capacitors. Capacitors in series in the mid-range changed to Obbligato per Jon's recommendation.

[BobEllis]

R5 target is 3R9, you can get closer with 5 Mills 20R in parallel at about the same cost as a pair of Mundorfs.

R2 and R4 are 4R7 target - a pair of 10R is closer.

R6 could be drawn as a pair of 1R5s in series unless you know a source for 3R 20W resistors.

[Renron]

R2 / R4 are mis matched, one of them is going to do almost all the resistance work and the other will be loafing.......... One will get hot(er) than the other.
R's in // should be the same value
Yeah, what Bob said.
Looks like you know your stuff construction wise, I'm looking forward to watching you.
Ron

[Horio]

Updated SW223BD02 crossover diagram above (post #206) per everyone's recommendations.

[Evil Twin]

The group think has some "clarity" in this case... you appear to be well on the way to a successful build, though we won't be convinced until we see sawdust and it's byproducts...

[Renron]

C3 A and B are a waste of $$$ to use Superior Z in this location, use something less expensive for shunts, Cross Cap or similar price.
Personally, I'd change C6A to a Superior Z to break up the sound monopoly of the Obbligatos. They each add a different flavor the the sauce.
Ron

[Horio]

The driver fairy visited last week and dropped off these beauties!

[JonMarsh]

Ah, yes, new Accuton midranges and Scanspeak Be Tweeters are something to cherish and enjoy! Just wait until you get to hear them! :B

[BobEllis]

I was thoroughly impressed by the way they sounded just handheld and fed a raw signal without crossover. At low level of course, but both sounded very sweet. Let's see some sawdust pictures, Horio!

[benthe8track]

I'm a little late (two or so years?) to show off the final pictures but we just moved into our new place and have a lot more light.

The new media stand is based off this unit. I used Ikea kitchen cabinets and had 12mm back painted glass cut. Saved quite a bit going the DIY route.

Anyways the pictures!

[Steve Manning]

Very nice Ben ...... is it floating like in the link you attached?

[JonMarsh]

Looks very classy, Ben! Clean and elegant! :T

[benthe8track]

Very nice Ben ...... is it floating like in the link you attached?

Thanks Steve. You bet, these are top cabinets technically and they hang from a single rail mounted to the wall. The only thing I may add is a computer fan in the centre compartment. I put my hypex guts inside a ghent case (my stainless case wouldn't fit) and it gets really hot in there.

Thanks Jon! I'm pretty happy with how it all eventually turned out.

[TEK]

Holy shit Ben! I had forgot how butiful you had got that veneer.
You used paper backed veneer? How did you get the edges that good? Seems to me as if you have got those edges just as good as with raw veneer. I have always got some of the paper edges showing trough a little bit when using paper backed veneer. And what finish did you apply?

Oh yeah, very nice bench as well!

PS: missing a picture capturing the whole setup at once :-)

[benthe8track]

Holy shit Ben! I had forgot how butiful you had got that veneer.
You used paper backed veneer? How did you get the edges that good? Seems to me as if you have got those edges just as good as with raw veneer. I have always got some of the paper edges showing trough a little bit when using paper backed veneer. And what finish did you apply?

Oh yeah, very nice bench as well!

PS: missing a picture capturing the whole setup at once :-)

Thanks Tek! You bet it's paper/PSA backed veneer. The incident angle (for a lack of a better term) of the front surfaces kind of naturally hides the paper/glue lines. The finish is industrial conversion varnish that were sprayed at a cabinet shop. They guy who sprayed them also used one of those brown touch up markers (crayons?) under the coating. It worked really well. The only place you can see paper/PSA is on the back. I think that's also a function of the raw veneer on the back being thinner than the PSA veneer. I don't have a wide enough lens to get it all in one shot, hence all the angled pics!

[scottvalentin]

Those are looking great and fantastic job on the TV stand - great use of IKEA cabinets!

Are you hosting Ardent listening parties yet?

[Renron]

Ben that is a fantastic looking setup you have, Walnut looks perfect too.
Great idea with modifying the IKEA cabinets. May have to steal that idea..uhhum borrow that idea.

Horio, we want construction pictures! Lets see the sawdust dude.
Ron
Still breakin' mine in.....

[flamethrower1]

Those are some very nice looking cabinets, great job

[JonMarsh]

I'm a little late (two or so years?) to show off the final pictures but we just moved into our new place and have a lot more light.

The new media stand is based off this unit. I used Ikea kitchen cabinets and had 12mm back painted glass cut. Saved quite a bit going the DIY route.

Anyways the pictures!

Someday, just for fun, try pulling these out away from the wall and use a Cardas style setup (math described in a note on their web site).

[wkhanna]

gorgeous
absolutely gorgeous!

details on the TT & phono-pre, please.....