Proposal for an easy to build modular multi vendor bass bin concept for music

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Evil Twin
    Super Senior Member
    • Nov 2004
    • 1612

    #1

    Proposal for an easy to build modular multi vendor bass bin concept for music

    Introduction

    Many impressive small monitor projects have been presented on the pages of HT Guide and other publications, with the concept that, if you mate this with a good "bass bin" concept for music, you will have an exceptional high performance system. The proposed Ascent two way is an example, as well as the older NatlieP and Modula MT designs. Many others from other contributors exist, with similar performance credentials. For the moment, we will not discuss if what seems to be a two way can really fully compete with a well engineered three way system with optimized selection of the midrange driver. Instead, we will simply present a proposal (currently in construction and to be tested soon) for a modular bass bin approach derived from a few key points:
    • Compact size, and frequency extension versus size focussed more on the needs of music, rather than HT with subsonic explosions
    • Robust large signal behavior with a driver design specifically optimized for that characteristic
    • Low distortion
    • Compact
    • Easy to build, with only a few tools (saber saw and drill at minimum; router recommended)
    • Extensible and modular - capable of being scaled up to a true technological terror with the same tool set
    • Components selected from multiple vendors, each optimized for key functional aspects addressing these requirements



    Core LF Driver


    Many manufacturers offer nominally high performance small subwoofer drivers; few have taken a driver design and utilized feedback from an experienced engineer such as Sigfried Linkwitz and corrected/updated the design of the driver for truly impressive large signal behavior. The Seas Design L26RO4Y is that driver, and delivers exceptional performance for a 10" driver.


    Click image for larger version

Name:	L26ROYSide_zps7ab5e4d8.jpg
Views:	192
Size:	25.8 KB
ID:	940887



    Click image for larger version

Name:	L26RO4Y-Specs_zps70bf8f89.jpg
Views:	105
Size:	70.5 KB
ID:	940888


    While not suited for delivering infrasonic frequencies in a Home Theater system, due to it's T/S parameters, for music it may be effectively unchallenged for this driver class, considering overall sensitivity, large signal distortion, Xmax, and compact size.

    But this driver will not meet the overall low frequency output goals on it's own- and considering the tunings desired, a port in a small enclosure is not feasible. It is most unfortunate that Seas is currently not able to deliver a passive radiator matched to this driver- investigations by our agents have indicted that manufacturing issues with surround and suspension are the blocking issues.

    However, there is another....


    Click image for larger version

Name:	26W_0-0-back_zps677670ca.jpg
Views:	116
Size:	40.1 KB
ID:	940889




    Click image for larger version

Name:	26W_0-00-side_zps93d12247.jpg
Views:	105
Size:	19.3 KB
ID:	940890

    ScanSpeak 26W/0-00 Passive Radiator



    Click image for larger version

Name:	26w-0-00-00-specs_zps2eb3c151.png
Views:	104
Size:	17.8 KB
ID:	940891

    This driver has the mechanical properties needed to work with the L26RO4Y driver, and appears to be readily available. It also has an adjustable mass system, like many PR's, but the starting mass point is near ideal for the proposed system alignment.



    Click image for larger version

Name:	L26RO4Y40LSPL_zps490dd966.png
Views:	109
Size:	429.9 KB
ID:	940892



    Enclosure


    The ideal enclosure starting point should be ~40L, well braced, compact in dimensions, and as a stretch goal, available with a cutout for the driver matching the Seas L26RO4Y. Note the mechanical dimensions of the Seas woofer.



    Click image for larger version

Name:	l26roy-mech1_zps71fe1c87.jpg
Views:	99
Size:	70.1 KB
ID:	940893



    Sometimes, the Force is with us....


    PE Enclosure for Ultimax 10" subwoofer


    Click image for larger version

Name:	300-7080_ALT_1_zps5996ab34.jpg
Views:	98
Size:	176.3 KB
ID:	940894


    Click image for larger version

Name:	300-7080_HR_0_zpsc5874d57.jpg
Views:	104
Size:	141.5 KB
ID:	940895


    The L26ROY fits quite well in the rebated mounting for the Ultimax woofer, being just very sightly smaller in outside frame diameter and cutout requirement. Construction of one of these to test is nearly complete. Details, including modifications for optimizing the PR mounting, will be posted soon.



    Modularity/Extensibility


    Last, let us examine some possible options for extensibility of this proposed configuration beyond a mono or stereo woofer concept with a single or dual cabinet.

    In detail, the characteristic for a single cabinet and driver, noting the sensitivity and output capability, with the T/S parameter analysis.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	L26RO4Y1x_zps2e841072.png
Views:	106
Size:	473.7 KB
ID:	940896


    First, the rather obvious possibility of dual woofers wired in series (these are 4 ohm drivers).


    Click image for larger version

Name:	L26RO4Y2xSeries_zps7d322d08.png
Views:	106
Size:	474.1 KB
ID:	940897

    With the second driver, for the same power feed, a 3 dB increase in sensitivity is normal. In this case, though, the impedance is doubling, so driving with the same 2.83VRMS the actual power delivered is halved, so for 2.83VRMS drive, the sensitivity remains unchanged.

    What about a 3rd driver?

    Click image for larger version

Name:	3xL26RO4YLF_zpsb2ed8cb6.png
Views:	93
Size:	227.7 KB
ID:	940898

    Now we see a further increase in the true 1W sensitivity, while due to the increased load impedance (roughly 12 ohms), the current draw for 2.83VRMS driver is further reduced, resulting in the same net sensitivity as for the other two cases- but the ability to handle three times the power and deliver higher SPL.

    An intriguing point is reached if we take this array of three drivers in series, and add a second array in parallel. In this case, the net sensitivity goes up 6 dB- 3 dB for the driver area and coupling, and three dB for the doubled current/power draw- with a six ohm load this is fairy easy to manage for almost any solid state amplifier, and often is the maximum power output impedance if the power supply hasn't been carefully optimized for low impedance loads. In this case, though, we see a sensitivity of 95.2 dB for 1 watt driver power, and acoustic output of 118 dB (from one array, anechoic, while not stressing the drivers) - definitely showing characteristics suited to a high end line array.

    What do we mean by not stressing the drivers? This is the predicted cone excursion with 100W to 2 drivers, the same nominal 50W working per driver- clearly, over 3 dB of headroom exists for the woofer and PR.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	L26RO4Y2xPRExcursion_zpse3a6034e.png
Views:	106
Size:	135.2 KB
ID:	940899
    Last edited by theSven; 19 June 2023, 07:42 Monday. Reason: Update image location
    DFAL
    Dark Force Acoustic Labs

    A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries
  • ---k---
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Nov 2005
    • 5205

    #2
    Looks like a project that will fill a need for many. :T

    Do you have a plan yet for where and how to crossover from the 2-way? When people use the term Bass Bin, it is always a stumbling block. Some use Bass Bins interchangeably with Subwoofers or combine the two into one concept.

    I think of a Bass Bin as having a higher crossover point than a subwoofer and not as deep of frequency extension. I think of Bass Bins to operate in the roughly 35hz - 400 hz range. Where as Suwoofers operate in the 10hz - 100hz range. Because the typical receiver has a max subwoofer crossover of 150hz, Bass Bins to me typically require an outboard active crossover. And if you want subs and bass bins, you've really got a 4-way design.

    Based on your driver selection and use of the term Bass Bin, I'm guessing a higher crossover than 150 hz and likely the use of an active crossover like a Behringer or MiniDSP?
    - Ryan

    CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
    CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
    CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

    Comment

    • Evil Twin
      Super Senior Member
      • Nov 2004
      • 1612

      #3
      Considering factors such as the response and distortion of the L26RO4Y, crossover phase alignment and wavelength, these considerations suggest a crossover frequency range between 80 Hz and 250 Hz, though that range will be further refined once more detailed measurements are completed on a working sample. It goes against my Force intuition to move the crossover point up into the range where most vocals would cross the boundary between "bass bin" and primary speaker, as with higher transition frequencies, phase transition becomes more and more critical. Additionally, without using DSP, one should likely stay below the lower BSC transition frequency.

      There are many active crossover types that would be suitable- notably the Behringer and miniDSP, but even many "legacy" devices such as a Sumo Delilah would be quite suitable, depending on the configuration implemented. A few examples will be configured and tested, and inputs are welcome regarding favorite "components".

      Work is continuing on the Nascent, and this project will likely be the first demonstrator for the concept.
      DFAL
      Dark Force Acoustic Labs

      A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

      Comment

      • russ.will
        Junior Member
        • Apr 2011
        • 28

        #4
        SEAS do make a matching PR: D1003 SL26R

        Russell

        Comment

        • Evil Twin
          Super Senior Member
          • Nov 2004
          • 1612

          #5
          Originally posted by russ.will
          SEAS do make a matching PR: D1003 SL26R

          Russell
          And if you check with Madison, the US distributor, you will find they are not currently available, and if you check in detail, it is because the Seas rejected the last batch of surrounds they received from the subcontractor and are waiting on getting parts that work.... and the delay will be 1 month minimum, more if there the new surrounds shipped are not up to specification.
          DFAL
          Dark Force Acoustic Labs

          A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

          Comment

          • russ.will
            Junior Member
            • Apr 2011
            • 28

            #6
            Okay. Was basing that on them currently being in stock in the UK.

            ATB,

            Russell

            Comment

            • JonMarsh
              Mad Max Moderator
              • Aug 2000
              • 16038

              #7
              Originally posted by russ.will
              Okay. Was basing that on them currently being in stock in the UK.

              ATB,

              Russell
              Count yourself lucky? There are many times it's easier to get some drivers in Europe- but then a lot of the best ones are made there! At times I do order from stores in Europe but usually the shipping and prices will kill you.
              the AudioWorx
              Natalie P
              M8ta
              Modula Neo DCC
              Modula MT XE
              Modula Xtreme
              Isiris
              Wavecor Ardent

              SMJ
              Minerva Monitor
              Calliope
              Ardent D

              In Development...
              Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
              Obi-Wan
              Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
              Modula PWB
              Calliope CC Supreme
              Natalie P Ultra
              Natalie P Supreme
              Janus BP1 Sub


              Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
              Just ask Mr. Ohm....

              Comment

              • russ.will
                Junior Member
                • Apr 2011
                • 28

                #8
                Indeed. We have the same problem when looking for the best sub-bass drivers which enevitably come from the US. The shipping on a couple of 15" drivers can be eye watering and then you have to apply import duty and then VAT on top of that.

                Normally, I sit here and look at US pricing, the sheer selection and closeouts with barely concealed green envy.
                Last edited by russ.will; 20 September 2014, 16:17 Saturday.

                Comment

                • russ.will
                  Junior Member
                  • Apr 2011
                  • 28

                  #9
                  I should also have said that I'm looking at this build with a lot of interest.

                  Comment

                  • JonMarsh
                    Mad Max Moderator
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 16038

                    #10
                    Well, we may have to nudge the Dark Lord to include detailed drawings of the PE knock down woofer box parts he's using, so that it can be replicated by those living on distant shores! Those knock down box kits aren't that big volume wise, but they sure are heavy...
                    the AudioWorx
                    Natalie P
                    M8ta
                    Modula Neo DCC
                    Modula MT XE
                    Modula Xtreme
                    Isiris
                    Wavecor Ardent

                    SMJ
                    Minerva Monitor
                    Calliope
                    Ardent D

                    In Development...
                    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                    Obi-Wan
                    Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                    Modula PWB
                    Calliope CC Supreme
                    Natalie P Ultra
                    Natalie P Supreme
                    Janus BP1 Sub


                    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                    Comment

                    • Evil Twin
                      Super Senior Member
                      • Nov 2004
                      • 1612

                      #11
                      The easy part of the assembly work for the first test module is complete-

                      Click image for larger version

Name:	IMGP0646_zpsd975eac4.jpg
Views:	152
Size:	192.7 KB
ID:	940900

                      Click image for larger version

Name:	IMGP0649_zpsd40ca767.jpg
Views:	148
Size:	165.9 KB
ID:	940901

                      Click image for larger version

Name:	IMGP0651_zpsd41e5c14.jpg
Views:	152
Size:	189.4 KB
ID:	940902

                      Click image for larger version

Name:	IMGP0657_zpsbbbb71b0.jpg
Views:	150
Size:	261.0 KB
ID:	940903


                      A short break in was applied, but it was probably not early enough to fully bed in the driver....


                      Click image for larger version

Name:	IMGP0663_zpsacfcf30e.jpg
Views:	143
Size:	236.3 KB
ID:	940904


                      The impedance curve was recorded, and base estimated T/S parameters noted- the impedance curves looks clean and with good behavior in the intended operating range.


                      Click image for larger version

Name:	SEASL26RO4Y-Z_zpsc2bbafb1.png
Views:	152
Size:	54.2 KB
ID:	940905


                      Buffer[0] Q,Fs Ver 7.01
                      Completed: Sun Sep 21 12:28:17 2014
                      Drive level 100.000% [3.540 mA]
                      Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Q/Fs,153 pts
                      ;------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Re = 3.1827 ohm
                      Fs = 29.6943 Hz
                      Zmax = 60.8791 ohm
                      Ro = 13.8925 ohm
                      F0 = 20.8794 Hz
                      F1 = 41.7602 Hz
                      Fmin = 207.1638 Hz
                      Qes = 0.3431
                      Qms = 6.2196
                      Qts = 0.3252
                      Le = 818.7447 uH @1k
                      XLe = 10.3122 ohm @1k
                      PLe = 29.9246 Deg @1k
                      ;------------------------------------------------;
                      ; Approximate Impedance Fitting Constants ;
                      ; (Improved with Completion of Vas Test) ;
                      ;------------------------------------------------;
                      Krm = 224.606E-03 ohms Freq dependent resistance
                      Erm = 346.627E-03 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
                      Kxm = 27.769E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
                      Exm = 664.760E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm


                      The next step awaits the arrival of the first test PR, and double checking the overall depth- it is likely necessary to build up another layer or two on the back panel so that when the PR is installed it will clear the existing bracing design.
                      Last edited by theSven; 19 June 2023, 07:44 Monday. Reason: Update image location
                      DFAL
                      Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                      A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                      Comment

                      • Evil Twin
                        Super Senior Member
                        • Nov 2004
                        • 1612

                        #12
                        In addition to the proposed test configuration, a determination has been made to test the "logical" driver for the UMAX 10" woofer cabinet. One is now on hand, and the construction protocol may be modified in order to first test in in sealed.

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	UMAX10Parameters_zpsf2e71caa.png
Views:	102
Size:	199.3 KB
ID:	940906

                        The Dayton UMAX driver has a few interesting characteristics-
                        • Relatively low cost- $139 USD
                        • Max of 19 mm
                        • Copper sleeve and pole cap to reduce distortion



                        The knock down enclosure is designed for this driver, in principle

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	UMAX10Sealed_zps7a45e97b.png
Views:	96
Size:	187.2 KB
ID:	940907


                        Even a PR solution seems possible in this size enclosure, with the same PR type as for the SEAS.

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	UMAX10PR_zps4749559f.png
Views:	95
Size:	210.4 KB
ID:	940908


                        Whether this is actually realizable remains to be seen, but the potential for high output level, perhaps not at as high frequencies, is clearly interesting...
                        Last edited by theSven; 19 June 2023, 07:45 Monday. Reason: Update image location
                        DFAL
                        Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                        A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                        Comment

                        • 5th element
                          Supreme Being Moderator
                          • Sep 2009
                          • 1677

                          #13
                          Those drivers sure are built like a tank!
                          What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                          5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                          Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                          Comment

                          • JonMarsh
                            Mad Max Moderator
                            • Aug 2000
                            • 16038

                            #14
                            You're not kidding, these are pretty brutal looking drivers, both spec and performance wise, and don't cost an arm and a leg...

                            Click image for larger version

Name:	295-510_HR_0.default.jpg
Views:	142
Size:	133.0 KB
ID:	940909

                            It will be interesting to see how the European solution stacks up versus the US/Taiwan contender.
                            Last edited by theSven; 19 June 2023, 07:46 Monday. Reason: Update image location
                            the AudioWorx
                            Natalie P
                            M8ta
                            Modula Neo DCC
                            Modula MT XE
                            Modula Xtreme
                            Isiris
                            Wavecor Ardent

                            SMJ
                            Minerva Monitor
                            Calliope
                            Ardent D

                            In Development...
                            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                            Obi-Wan
                            Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                            Modula PWB
                            Calliope CC Supreme
                            Natalie P Ultra
                            Natalie P Supreme
                            Janus BP1 Sub


                            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                            Comment

                            • 5th element
                              Supreme Being Moderator
                              • Sep 2009
                              • 1677

                              #15
                              When I first saw the SEAS subs and when Dayton first introduced the Ultimax I kept trying to justify reasons to buy them, or trying to figure out a way to use them AND my 4 XLS drivers at the same time and I couldn't, not really :P About the only justification I could come up with was to take the 2 XLS drivers from my main sub and add them to the two filler subs push/pull. Then use the Ultimax or SEAS ones in the main sub...well one day perhaps!
                              What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                              5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                              Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                              Comment

                              • elessar
                                Junior Member
                                • Aug 2013
                                • 15

                                #16
                                I'm also rather interested in this.

                                I was simulating your numbers and the Pasive Radiator with the Ultimax is passing the xmax your using. The datasheet says xmax of +/-28 and you have been using 14 and 20, i'm just a little confused.

                                Comment

                                • JonMarsh
                                  Mad Max Moderator
                                  • Aug 2000
                                  • 16038

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by elessar
                                  I'm also rather interested in this.

                                  I was simulating your numbers and the Pasive Radiator with the Ultimax is passing the xmax your using. The datasheet says xmax of +/-28 and you have been using 14 and 20, i'm just a little confused.
                                  Hmmm, not sure where you're getting your numbers. but it's important to be sure to distinguish between P-P Xmax, Mechanical Xmax, and one way linear Xmax (the latter being the number used for calculation in programs like Unibox, because reproduction at a given RMS level requires bipolar output, but the RMS level is just 0.707 X the excursion (magnitude) in one direction, just like for good ole electricity.



                                  Click image for larger version

Name:	L26RO4Y-Specs_zps7b92f7d6.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	70.5 KB
ID:	940910

                                  So, while the L26RO4Y has a P-P excursion of 28mm, the one way linear Xmax is 14 mm; this is the value used for calculation.

                                  Click image for larger version

Name:	DaytonAudioUM10-2210quotUltimaxDVCSubwoofer2ohmsPerCoil_zpsc7c14488.png
Views:	97
Size:	319.3 KB
ID:	940911

                                  For the Dayton UMAX 10-22, the linear one way Xmax is 19mm- significantly higher than for the Seas, but the question remains of how linear the suspension and BL are for each driver (as I know of no published Kippel data, unfortunately), but that can be answered fairly well by small signal and large signal distortion measurements.
                                  Last edited by theSven; 19 June 2023, 07:46 Monday. Reason: Update image location
                                  the AudioWorx
                                  Natalie P
                                  M8ta
                                  Modula Neo DCC
                                  Modula MT XE
                                  Modula Xtreme
                                  Isiris
                                  Wavecor Ardent

                                  SMJ
                                  Minerva Monitor
                                  Calliope
                                  Ardent D

                                  In Development...
                                  Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                  Obi-Wan
                                  Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                  Modula PWB
                                  Calliope CC Supreme
                                  Natalie P Ultra
                                  Natalie P Supreme
                                  Janus BP1 Sub


                                  Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                  Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                  Comment

                                  • Face
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Mar 2007
                                    • 995

                                    #18
                                    Why must Dayton publish VAS in FT^3 when just about every other manufacturer uses Liters and all of their other parameters are in metric?
                                    SEOS 12/AE TD10M Front Stage in Progress

                                    Comment

                                    • JonMarsh
                                      Mad Max Moderator
                                      • Aug 2000
                                      • 16038

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Face
                                      Why must Dayton publish VAS in FT^3 when just about every other manufacturer uses Liters and all of their other parameters are in metric?
                                      Sheer contrariness? Obfuscation? They have stock in companies selling calculators? I dunno....
                                      the AudioWorx
                                      Natalie P
                                      M8ta
                                      Modula Neo DCC
                                      Modula MT XE
                                      Modula Xtreme
                                      Isiris
                                      Wavecor Ardent

                                      SMJ
                                      Minerva Monitor
                                      Calliope
                                      Ardent D

                                      In Development...
                                      Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                      Obi-Wan
                                      Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                      Modula PWB
                                      Calliope CC Supreme
                                      Natalie P Ultra
                                      Natalie P Supreme
                                      Janus BP1 Sub


                                      Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                      Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                      Comment

                                      • elessar
                                        Junior Member
                                        • Aug 2013
                                        • 15

                                        #20
                                        I was referring to the passive radiator.

                                        Click image for larger version

Name:	26w-0-00-00-specs_zps2eb3c151.png
Views:	100
Size:	17.8 KB
ID:	940912.


                                        In this simulation you use an xmax of 14mm for the PR and the actual excursion is about 24mm.

                                        Click image for larger version

Name:	L26RO4Y2xPRExcursion_zpse3a6034e.png
Views:	95
Size:	135.2 KB
ID:	940913



                                        For this, you you have the xmax peak set at 20mm, for the PR, and i think (by my own bad simulating skills) extends about 26mm.

                                        Click image for larger version

Name:	UMAX10PR_zps4749559f.png
Views:	94
Size:	210.4 KB
ID:	940914


                                        sorry i wasn't clear
                                        Last edited by theSven; 19 June 2023, 07:47 Monday. Reason: Update image location

                                        Comment

                                        • JonMarsh
                                          Mad Max Moderator
                                          • Aug 2000
                                          • 16038

                                          #21
                                          OK, that explanation makes more sense. But we're still left to deal with the notion of the linear mechanical excursion- and that's far from clear. Many drivers have poor distortion characteristics at the peak of their swing NOT because of the motor linearity, but because of the suspension linearity. Just look at some Kippel tests of standard woofers as well as subs. This was a problem with many of the XBL Adire drivers, and others following in their footsteps- yeah, the electrical motor was good for this, but mechanical suspension nonlinearity caused heightened distortion long before that.

                                          And an examination of the SLR as well as the SS PR shows a mechanical design based closely on that of the woofer- so being the nervous nelly that I am, I have a tendency to discount the notion of using the full mechanical travel of the PR- it would be like rating a tube power amp's output power well up into the soft clipping area.

                                          what I wish we could see is a rating based on a certain percentage of THD, but that would be too revealing of how poor drivers perform compared with amplifiers in this kind of area...
                                          the AudioWorx
                                          Natalie P
                                          M8ta
                                          Modula Neo DCC
                                          Modula MT XE
                                          Modula Xtreme
                                          Isiris
                                          Wavecor Ardent

                                          SMJ
                                          Minerva Monitor
                                          Calliope
                                          Ardent D

                                          In Development...
                                          Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                          Obi-Wan
                                          Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                          Modula PWB
                                          Calliope CC Supreme
                                          Natalie P Ultra
                                          Natalie P Supreme
                                          Janus BP1 Sub


                                          Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                          Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                          Comment

                                          • Evil Twin
                                            Super Senior Member
                                            • Nov 2004
                                            • 1612

                                            #22
                                            Another, more compact alternative to evaluate

                                            Another possibility will be evaluated- for situations requiring a very compact solution with minimal footprint


                                            The Wavecor SW223BD01 delivers nearly 11 mm of Xmax, with using a "Balanced Drive" motor design (low 2nd order distortion) with low noise at high excursions, and can deliver low Fb's in fairly small enclosures. On the other hand, it does pay a price in sensitivity, and it is more expensive than the norm for this size driver.

                                            Click image for larger version

Name:	Wavecor_zps47ceb3c9.jpg
Views:	169
Size:	78.5 KB
ID:	940915

                                            The principle advantage to consider is compactness- combined with LF extension-

                                            The response alignment for a 25 liter net enclosure with MMP of 155 grams is well worth considering. In this case, a three driver array would only need 75 - 80 liters.

                                            Click image for larger version

Name:	WavecorSW223-PR223_zpsd658467a.png
Views:	148
Size:	249.4 KB
ID:	940916
                                            Last edited by theSven; 19 June 2023, 07:48 Monday. Reason: Update image location
                                            DFAL
                                            Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                            A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                            Comment

                                            • Evil Twin
                                              Super Senior Member
                                              • Nov 2004
                                              • 1612

                                              #23
                                              Some calculations have been completed independent of Wavecor's PDF for the PR223BD01 combined with the SW223BD01...


                                              Click image for larger version

Name:	wavecor_pr223bd01-700x700w.jpg
Views:	154
Size:	61.6 KB
ID:	940917


                                              Using three in 60L , with no parameter changes from the base PR configuration:

                                              Click image for larger version

Name:	SW223BD01-PR223BD0160Lnomod_zps407d10af.png
Views:	152
Size:	182.7 KB
ID:	940918

                                              With extra mass loading on the PR to tune Fpr to the 16 Hz range:

                                              Click image for larger version

Name:	SW223BD01-PR223BD013x60L_zps9fed657d.png
Views:	149
Size:	181.6 KB
ID:	940919

                                              And with similar PR tuning, but allowing 75 liters net for three woofers and PRs:

                                              Click image for larger version

Name:	SW223BD01-PR223BD013x75L_zpse735efb5.png
Views:	152
Size:	189.5 KB
ID:	940920

                                              For a very compact system with small footprint, these configurations may have characteristics worth evaluating.

                                              However, the overall value proposition is somewhat poorer than the 10" driver alternative. For some domestic situations, the 1/3 to 1/2 lower net volume may be a compelling advantage, though. 113 dB with 1/2 the net driver volume, using six woofers and PRs, may be a sufficient degree of overkill in many cases.
                                              Last edited by theSven; 19 June 2023, 07:50 Monday. Reason: Update Image location
                                              DFAL
                                              Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                              A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                              Comment

                                              • JonMarsh
                                                Mad Max Moderator
                                                • Aug 2000
                                                • 16038

                                                #24
                                                I wouldn't be surprised if this PE knock down cabinet wouldn't work pretty well for the SW223BD01 + PR223BD01 combination:


                                                Click image for larger version

Name:	CabforSW223-PR223_zps3e87eaad.png
Views:	131
Size:	903.1 KB
ID:	940921

                                                Click image for larger version

Name:	300-7085_HR_0_zpscec18927.jpg
Views:	150
Size:	134.0 KB
ID:	940922


                                                Only 14.25" wide, too...

                                                Now, a combined three driver cabinet setup, that would weigh almost 90 lb before you even put any parts in them!
                                                Last edited by theSven; 19 June 2023, 07:50 Monday. Reason: Update image location
                                                the AudioWorx
                                                Natalie P
                                                M8ta
                                                Modula Neo DCC
                                                Modula MT XE
                                                Modula Xtreme
                                                Isiris
                                                Wavecor Ardent

                                                SMJ
                                                Minerva Monitor
                                                Calliope
                                                Ardent D

                                                In Development...
                                                Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                Obi-Wan
                                                Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                Modula PWB
                                                Calliope CC Supreme
                                                Natalie P Ultra
                                                Natalie P Supreme
                                                Janus BP1 Sub


                                                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                Comment

                                                • Evil Twin
                                                  Super Senior Member
                                                  • Nov 2004
                                                  • 1612

                                                  #25
                                                  Preparations for Storm Trooper training occupied this weekend, however, the ScanSpeak PR did arrive as expected, and appears to be quite usable for the task at hand, although it was not equipped with any additional weights.

                                                  A scheduled training evolution will limit my audio endeavors the next two weeks, but afterwards real progress should be possible.

                                                  Materials have been ordered for a test article for the SW223BD01 + PR223BD01 combination. For a very small footprint application, this is a very promising solution, if low cost is not considered as a primary requirement.
                                                  DFAL
                                                  Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                  A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Evil Twin
                                                    Super Senior Member
                                                    • Nov 2004
                                                    • 1612

                                                    #26
                                                    One more configuration has been modeled, at the suggestion of Jonmarsh, combining the SW223BD01 with the ScanSpeak W260-00 PR, in a 1 cu ft enclosure. The parameter modeling for the unmodified ScanSpeak PR is straight forward.


                                                    Click image for larger version

Name:	SW223PR26W-0-00Design30L_zps380cf651.png
Views:	92
Size:	456.9 KB
ID:	940923


                                                    The basic modeled performance looks quite promising, and the larger PR (Sd=~350cm2 versus 225 cm2) doesn't hurt capabilities at all.

                                                    Click image for larger version

Name:	SW22326W-0-00PRSPL_zpsde82e1a1.png
Views:	105
Size:	381.6 KB
ID:	940924

                                                    Click image for larger version

Name:	SW22326W-0-00Excursion_zps05192c36.png
Views:	94
Size:	291.7 KB
ID:	940925

                                                    Of note: Excursion capabilities are tracking well as regards peak excursion within the desired passband (down to 20 Hz) and the initial roll off rate is closer to a QB3/B4 than the typical B6 PR rate (which it does devolve to below about 12 Hz,, but at this point driver output is well attenuated already).
                                                    Last edited by theSven; 19 June 2023, 07:52 Monday. Reason: Update image location
                                                    DFAL
                                                    Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                    A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                    Comment

                                                    • JonMarsh
                                                      Mad Max Moderator
                                                      • Aug 2000
                                                      • 16038

                                                      #27
                                                      I like how those two look/model together. I'd recommend making that a priority to test.

                                                      In fact, I just happened to have gotten in that 1 cu ft PE knock down enclosure. Too bad I'm scheduled to work in Cupertino this weekend. I have all the parts lying around to try out that configuration...
                                                      the AudioWorx
                                                      Natalie P
                                                      M8ta
                                                      Modula Neo DCC
                                                      Modula MT XE
                                                      Modula Xtreme
                                                      Isiris
                                                      Wavecor Ardent

                                                      SMJ
                                                      Minerva Monitor
                                                      Calliope
                                                      Ardent D

                                                      In Development...
                                                      Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                      Obi-Wan
                                                      Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                      Modula PWB
                                                      Calliope CC Supreme
                                                      Natalie P Ultra
                                                      Natalie P Supreme
                                                      Janus BP1 Sub


                                                      Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                      Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                      Comment

                                                      • JonMarsh
                                                        Mad Max Moderator
                                                        • Aug 2000
                                                        • 16038

                                                        #28
                                                        You know, I just had an interesting idea, AFTER I had my coffee this morning, of course. Something to ponder for those of you heading into a weekend that you're not working...

                                                        Imagine two of the 1 cu ft cabinets with the Wavecor SW223BD01 stacked, each coupled with the ScanSpeak 26W0-00 PR, with a Parts Express 0.5 cu ft cabinet containing an Esoteric ES140ti as midrange and a TL N26 tweeter, configured as a three way; maybe borrow the base crossover concept from the Wavecor Ardent, but tweak the crossover points a bit lower on both the L-M and M-T transitions. My experience with the Modula Xtremes indicates you might need to put that on a stand a foot or so off the floor, something like a slightly reduced footprint square, in order to optimize the floor bounce behavior between the drivers

                                                        Click image for larger version

Name:	302-722_HR_0.default.jpg
Views:	154
Size:	98.1 KB
ID:	940926









                                                        In comparison to the Ardent or Modula Xtreme, No extreme woodworking required (in fact, very little wood working required), low complexity moderate cost crossover, no waveguide futzing, and straight forward assembly... might be interesting. And should have lots of LF output for those who like a zaftig low end... you know who you are! :W Should be pretty dang clean, too. Now if I can re-use the mid/tweeter modules from the test build for a set of rear channels for GF's HT, we just might be in business for a test build...
                                                        Last edited by theSven; 19 June 2023, 07:54 Monday. Reason: Update image location
                                                        the AudioWorx
                                                        Natalie P
                                                        M8ta
                                                        Modula Neo DCC
                                                        Modula MT XE
                                                        Modula Xtreme
                                                        Isiris
                                                        Wavecor Ardent

                                                        SMJ
                                                        Minerva Monitor
                                                        Calliope
                                                        Ardent D

                                                        In Development...
                                                        Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                        Obi-Wan
                                                        Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                        Modula PWB
                                                        Calliope CC Supreme
                                                        Natalie P Ultra
                                                        Natalie P Supreme
                                                        Janus BP1 Sub


                                                        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                        Comment

                                                        • 5th element
                                                          Supreme Being Moderator
                                                          • Sep 2009
                                                          • 1677

                                                          #29
                                                          I always liked that design Jon, what happened to it?
                                                          What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                                                          5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                                                          Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • JonMarsh
                                                            Mad Max Moderator
                                                            • Aug 2000
                                                            • 16038

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by 5th element
                                                            I always liked that design Jon, what happened to it?
                                                            The Isiris happened to it. I collaborated with Michael on the mechanical CAD file designs that got what another friend calls the CA Isis off the ground, but had to rob the midrange because I was too cheap to buy another pair!
                                                            the AudioWorx
                                                            Natalie P
                                                            M8ta
                                                            Modula Neo DCC
                                                            Modula MT XE
                                                            Modula Xtreme
                                                            Isiris
                                                            Wavecor Ardent

                                                            SMJ
                                                            Minerva Monitor
                                                            Calliope
                                                            Ardent D

                                                            In Development...
                                                            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                            Obi-Wan
                                                            Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                            Modula PWB
                                                            Calliope CC Supreme
                                                            Natalie P Ultra
                                                            Natalie P Supreme
                                                            Janus BP1 Sub


                                                            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                            Comment

                                                            • 5th element
                                                              Supreme Being Moderator
                                                              • Sep 2009
                                                              • 1677

                                                              #31
                                                              You could always pop the Vifa NE 6" into it.
                                                              What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                                                              5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                                                              Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • JonMarsh
                                                                Mad Max Moderator
                                                                • Aug 2000
                                                                • 16038

                                                                #32
                                                                One things about this proposed alignment for the Seas L26RO4Y-

                                                                Click image for larger version

Name:	L26RO4Y40LSPL_zps490dd966.png
Views:	92
Size:	429.9 KB
ID:	940927

                                                                It's what would generally be called an EBS alignment- that is, tuned well below the parameters for flat response, in order to get an extended FB frequency. In this case, the difference between midband sensitivity and the response in the Fb area is about 6 dB. With careful room placement and choice of listening position, LF boundary reinforcement can fill in most of that, but it may always be perceived in many rooms as subjectively light in the bottom end, even though the response cut off is fairly low. I wonder if a flatter profile is feasible with a different tuning or enclosure volume, and what would be the usable Fb? For music, a 30 Hz lower limit seems pretty reasonable to me, especially if one could pick up a few dB.

                                                                I like the SW223BD01 + 26W/0-00 alignment in 30 liters a lot better, though it wouldn't muster the same sheer output, and isn't of a comparable value proposition.

                                                                Click image for larger version

Name:	SW22326W-0-00PRSPL_zpsde82e1a1.png
Views:	98
Size:	381.6 KB
ID:	940928
                                                                Last edited by theSven; 19 June 2023, 07:55 Monday. Reason: Update image location
                                                                the AudioWorx
                                                                Natalie P
                                                                M8ta
                                                                Modula Neo DCC
                                                                Modula MT XE
                                                                Modula Xtreme
                                                                Isiris
                                                                Wavecor Ardent

                                                                SMJ
                                                                Minerva Monitor
                                                                Calliope
                                                                Ardent D

                                                                In Development...
                                                                Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                                Obi-Wan
                                                                Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                                Modula PWB
                                                                Calliope CC Supreme
                                                                Natalie P Ultra
                                                                Natalie P Supreme
                                                                Janus BP1 Sub


                                                                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Evil Twin
                                                                  Super Senior Member
                                                                  • Nov 2004
                                                                  • 1612

                                                                  #33
                                                                  More work has been completed, and the SL26R PR is now available, and one is on order- though Seas provides little information on the parameters, and my own intuition is that the mass and compliance are not as optimized for the considered application as is the case for the ScanSpeak PR. Two more Scanspeak PR's have been ordered for evaluation with different LF drivers.


                                                                  In the case of the small footprint test cabinet for the SW223BD01 and 26W PR, the rear of the cabinet has been extended with an additional 3 layer stack-up; this eliminates the PR volume from reducing the working cabinet volume.

                                                                  The outside dimensions before adding the rear panel stack is a mere 14-1/4" on each side.

                                                                  Click image for larger version

Name:	XAngleStackLF_zps315333d6.jpg
Views:	142
Size:	147.3 KB
ID:	940929


                                                                  Click image for larger version

Name:	SideStackLF_zpsff7423b7.jpg
Views:	143
Size:	157.3 KB
ID:	940930


                                                                  This configuration does have an unusual aspect, with the 9" woofer mated to a 10" plus PR.

                                                                  Front View

                                                                  Click image for larger version

Name:	SmallFront_zps291656f5.jpg
Views:	146
Size:	173.0 KB
ID:	940931

                                                                  Rear View before adding the panel stack

                                                                  Click image for larger version

Name:	SmallRear_zpsdb68850e.jpg
Views:	144
Size:	160.4 KB
ID:	940932



                                                                  The test cabinet for the L26ROY is also nearly complete at this time.


                                                                  Front View:

                                                                  Click image for larger version

Name:	L26ROYFront_zps76e7b398.jpg
Views:	145
Size:	159.3 KB
ID:	940933



                                                                  Rear View

                                                                  Click image for larger version

Name:	L26ROYRear_zps729d9079.jpg
Views:	137
Size:	189.7 KB
ID:	940934



                                                                  The testing plan initially will be to place the cabinet loaded with drivers on one side on a large concrete patio, and suspend a test microphone overhead, about 1M from the cabinet, to simultaneously capture the driver wave and PR wave, considering that at up to 200 Hz, 90 degrees off axis should be essentially omnidirectional.
                                                                  Last edited by theSven; 19 June 2023, 07:56 Monday. Reason: Update image location
                                                                  DFAL
                                                                  Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                                  A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Steve Manning
                                                                    Moderator
                                                                    • Dec 2006
                                                                    • 2116

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Jon are there any advantages of going with the D1004 version vs the D1001 of the L26RO4Y in this project?
                                                                    Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                                                                    WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Evil Twin
                                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                                      • Nov 2004
                                                                      • 1612

                                                                      #35
                                                                      The D1004 version is the one re-engineered using suggestions and requests from Sigfried Linkwitz, and reportedly has better large signal behavior. This copy from the Madisound site is about as much information as is available publicly. The main elements of difference are the supporting spider and Voice coil assembly. If you play these quietly, then the other version should be fine. But then, if you play these quietly, you should probably be on another forum, or be using a different driver....

                                                                      The L26RO4Y subwoofer. Developed in cooperation with Linkwitz Laboratories in Corte Medera, California, the L26RO4Y will see its first application in two new versions of the highly acclaimed Linkwitz ORION open baffle loudspeaker. The L26RO4Y substantially improves the ORION's bass performance and dynamic capabilities. We at SEAS are also very proud that the ORION loudspeaker now uses all SEAS drive units!

                                                                      "There is more to a woofer than its published TS small signal parameters and X-max, derived from mechanical measurements. In the Orion's open baffle, a woofer operates in the large signal domain; and its distortion, dynamic stability and limiting behavior determine the sound. An open baffle is the most demanding and difficult environment for a long throw woofer." -- Siegfried Linkwitz:

                                                                      To meet these stringent demands, the L26RO4Y subwoofer builds upon the already excellent chassis, magnet system, cone, and surround of our L26ROY. An all new FEA designed spider and 4 layer voice coil wound on a stiff glass fibre former have been employed, resulting in a driver with ultra long throw, very low distortion, and extremely stable mechanical operation under all conditions; including open baffle systems. The low Qts and Fs are ideally suited for active open baffle bass systems, but the L26RO4Y can also produce excellent results in enclosure based subwoofer and multi-way systems.

                                                                      • Extremely stiff and rigid aluminium cone gives tremendous bass precision. The cone and the long throw low loss rubber surround show no sign of the familiar cone edge resonance and distortion associated with soft cones.
                                                                      • Lead-out wires symetrically stitched to the spider to avoid resonances. Total suspension designed to assure stability for extreme excursions.
                                                                      • 4-layer, extremely long, high temperature voice coil wound on an glassfiber voice coil former gives a high power handling capacity.
                                                                      • Cu-cap around the pole pieces reduce non linear and modulation distortion and increase overload margin.
                                                                      • Extra large magnet system provides high efficiency and low Q.
                                                                      • Extremely stiff and stable injection moulded metal basket keeps the critical components in perfect alignment. Large windows in the basket both above and below the spider reduce sound reflection, air flow noise and cavity resonance to a minimum.
                                                                      More PR's have been received for testing, including a Seas SL26R PR, but indications are as delivered the parameters are not in the right range, and will require substantial additional weights. This will be confirmed in testing.
                                                                      DFAL
                                                                      Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                                      A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Steve Manning
                                                                        Moderator
                                                                        • Dec 2006
                                                                        • 2116

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by Evil Twin
                                                                        The D1004 version is the one re-engineered using suggestions and requests from Sigfried Linkwitz, and reportedly has better large signal behavior. This copy from the Madisound site is about as much information as is available publicly. The main elements of difference are the supporting spider and Voice coil assembly. If you play these quietly, then the other version should be fine. But then, if you play these quietly, you should probably be on another forum, or be using a different driver....



                                                                        More PR's have been received for testing, including a Seas SL26R PR, but indications are as delivered the parameters are not in the right range, and will require substantial additional weights. This will be confirmed in testing.
                                                                        I have been doing some runs with this and the Scan Speak PR and I have been seeing the same thing with the Seas PR. Checking the numbers on the spec sheets the Scan Speak has a mass of 400g vs 260g for the Seas. When I added some additional mass to the Seas things got considerably better. With what I have been playing around with so far (at least to my noob eyes) the Scan Speak PR and a Peerless XXLS 835016 appear to be a nice combination, not sure if that combo is on your to try list or not.
                                                                        Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                                                                        WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Evil Twin
                                                                          Super Senior Member
                                                                          • Nov 2004
                                                                          • 1612

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Setup for tests should be complete within the next few days... fortunately, assembly droids do not get time off for the Holidays...


                                                                          Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1643_zps1eb426f1.jpg
Views:	98
Size:	184.3 KB
ID:	940935
                                                                          Last edited by theSven; 19 June 2023, 07:56 Monday. Reason: Update image location
                                                                          DFAL
                                                                          Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                                          A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • PMazz
                                                                            Senior Member
                                                                            • May 2001
                                                                            • 861

                                                                            #38
                                                                            A little overkill for dog houses, don't you think?
                                                                            Birth of a Media Center

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • wkhanna
                                                                              Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                                              • Jan 2006
                                                                              • 5674

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Dogs?
                                                                              I thought maybe Jon just had V fat birds.
                                                                              _


                                                                              Bill

                                                                              Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                                              ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                                              FinleyAudio

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • JonMarsh
                                                                                Mad Max Moderator
                                                                                • Aug 2000
                                                                                • 16038

                                                                                #40
                                                                                It's a new arcology experiment- where we'll keep the turkeys in the off season. The wild ones around here are too stupid to stay out of the road when the cars are going by in this neighborhood. :B
                                                                                the AudioWorx
                                                                                Natalie P
                                                                                M8ta
                                                                                Modula Neo DCC
                                                                                Modula MT XE
                                                                                Modula Xtreme
                                                                                Isiris
                                                                                Wavecor Ardent

                                                                                SMJ
                                                                                Minerva Monitor
                                                                                Calliope
                                                                                Ardent D

                                                                                In Development...
                                                                                Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                                                Obi-Wan
                                                                                Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                                                Modula PWB
                                                                                Calliope CC Supreme
                                                                                Natalie P Ultra
                                                                                Natalie P Supreme
                                                                                Janus BP1 Sub


                                                                                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                                                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • CraigJ
                                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                                  • Feb 2006
                                                                                  • 519

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by PMazz
                                                                                  A little overkill for dog houses, don't you think?
                                                                                  Is this the new dog sub-forum?

                                                                                  A week or so late, but thanks Jon,

                                                                                  Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0895_zps86e8052f.webp
Views:	139
Size:	115.4 KB
ID:	940936

                                                                                  And Merry Christmas.

                                                                                  Craig
                                                                                  Last edited by theSven; 19 June 2023, 07:57 Monday. Reason: Update image location

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  Related Topics

                                                                                  Collapse

                                                                                  • dlneubec
                                                                                    The BaSSlines (was High Sensitivity Design)
                                                                                    by dlneubec
                                                                                    I’ve posted in Jed’s Tombstone thread how amazed I was by the Bagby/Salk design I heard at the inDIYana event last Saturday. I’ve been doing some concept design for a "value" version of this speaker and wanted to start a thread on it. I’m hoping for sensitivity in the 92db+ range,...
                                                                                    02 May 2008, 09:03 Friday
                                                                                  • wkhanna
                                                                                    Reality check for a modified Neo concept
                                                                                    by wkhanna
                                                                                    Question re the Neo:

                                                                                    Does anybody think it would be possible to build the Neo with an integrated bass bin?

                                                                                    I was day-dreaming about this and came up with a two compartment tower config using the 40 liter volume in the top section for the Neo, and possibly the TB W8Q-1071F...
                                                                                    25 July 2008, 10:34 Friday
                                                                                  • wowo101
                                                                                    The Endeavour, a 3.5 way active speaker concept
                                                                                    by wowo101
                                                                                    After a few stabs at dipoles in the last two years, I've recently worked on an active speaker concept I call Endeavour – and it really is, since I'm still very much a beginner (although I've learned a lot in theory from you all). By now, it's concept only, and before going any further, I'd like to...
                                                                                    02 August 2012, 17:33 Thursday
                                                                                  • JonMarsh
                                                                                    Design Concept Study: M8td3
                                                                                    by JonMarsh
                                                                                    This is probably of limited interest to the general public- what I've basically done is a design study for a three way version of the M8ta, renamed M8td3; d for Duelund, which it's roughly derived from, and 3 for three way. Doh!



                                                                                    For those who don't know what an M8ta is, it's...
                                                                                    06 March 2010, 13:58 Saturday
                                                                                  • JoshK
                                                                                    "Bass Bin" idea
                                                                                    by JoshK
                                                                                    I had an idea (uh oh) for a bass bin for the Modula MTM (or conceivably the Nat P). In my case, I am using them for my HT mains and eventually they will be augmented with the dual Avalanche 15s I have, once they get built. However, I think that filling out the bottom end a tad even when I mean to...
                                                                                    11 April 2006, 16:47 Tuesday
                                                                                  • Loading...
                                                                                  • No more items.
                                                                                  Working...
                                                                                    Searching...Please wait.
                                                                                    An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                                                                                    Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                                                    An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                                                                                    Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                                                    An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                                                                                    There are no results that meet this criteria.
                                                                                    Search Result for "|||"