Horio's Wavecor Ardent Build

[Horio]

Great to see a good progress especially as I've just done the same less than month ago and everything is fresh in mind still.
I have some good tools, but I must say I envy some of your's. Parallel guides for repetitive cuts would indeed be very good for this job as well as the great Festool domino machine. Sure helps with aligning all the corners better.

Whats your plan for finishing? A layer of veneer as well or?

I envy that you have access to a CNC router!

I'm still a very much a novice woodworker, but I've found that taking my time and proper tools can produce some nice results. I started off with the TS55 track saw plus dust extractor a few years back (don't have room for table saw), and I sorta slipped off the Festool deep end for a little while. Next thing I know, I also had a router, domino and couple of sanders. They definitely fall into the "luxury" items in my mind, but they certainly are a joy to use.

Right now, I'm looking at doing a painted finish. Color to be determined by my wife of course...unless it's something too girly.

[TEK]

Pink! Make them pink! :dancenana:

[ergo]

Oh no - please don't listen to TEK ... just imagining that hurts.

[Renron]

Tek, you 'da man!

[Horio]

My wife is not really a pink person, so I think I'm in luck there. I could see her asking for some floral pattern though...

[Horio]

Getting ready for another build session in a week or so. Hoping to get the internal braces fabricated and the cabinets (minus the baffles) glued together. We'll see how much I can get done.

In the meantime, the UPS man was kind enough to drop this beauty off:

[Steve Manning]

Getting ready for another build session in a week or so. Hoping to get the internal braces fabricated and the cabinets (minus the baffles) glued together. We'll see how much I can get done.

In the meantime, the UPS man was kind enough to drop this beauty off:

Nice ..... I have the Mini-Mite 4 Platinum, I think your going to like it.:T

[Horio]

Nice ..... I have the Mini-Mite 4 Platinum, I think your going to like it.:T

I think so. I was originally going to get the Mini Mite 4 with gravity gun, but I stumbled on an amazing deal for the Q4 with siphon gun. I couldn't pass it up. With the money saved I can add the gravity gun later if needed.

[Renron]

Your going to love your HVLP. Having used both extensively, I prefer gravity guns for quality of spray. Cup guns for ease of use. 90% of the time I reach for my cup gun simply because I'm more familiar with how it delivers product. Excellent results can be had from either gun. Great purchase Horio, congratulations.
Ron

[cochinada]

You guys all look like professional painters!

[Steve Manning]

Just a heads up on the Fuji gravity gun, unless they have fixed it recently, the lid on the cups leak. I worked with their support crew, who were great and I got two different versions and they both leaked anytime I tipped the gun over. I have yet to research alternatives that would work with the system, but I did find placing a layer of press and seal and poking a small hole in the middle of it it for air flow, solved my problems. Considering what their gravity guns cost it's not something you should have to do, but it was a work around for the time being.

[Horio]

Thanks for the heads up on the gravity gun Steve. Ever tried the 3M PPS system? Wonder if that would help the issue.

I did decide to order the 3 foot high heat hose after reading about some of the issues with the provided blue hose.

[Steve Manning]

Thanks for the heads up on the gravity gun Steve. Ever tried the 3M PPS system? Wonder if that would help the issue.

I did decide to order the 3 foot high heat hose after reading about some of the issues with the provided blue hose.

I have not tried the 3M stuff ..... Ron tells me it's the way to go though.

[Horio]

Dumb question. I'm planning to wrap the cabinets with 1/8" hardboard after gluing the baffles to the cabinet backs. I haven't really worked with hardboard before. Do I want to use masonite which has a rough side to help with gluing to the cabinets, or do I want hardboard which is tempered/smooth on both sides? Seems like trying to glue a tempered face to the cabinets could be troublesome for adhesion. I also wonder if glue hitting the rough side might create any swelling issues.

[Steve Manning]

Dumb question. I'm planning to wrap the cabinets with 1/8" hardboard after gluing the baffles to the cabinet backs. I haven't really worked with hardboard before. Do I want to use masonite which has a rough side to help with gluing to the cabinets, or do I want hardboard which is tempered/smooth on both sides? Seems like trying to glue a tempered face to the cabinets could be troublesome for adhesion. I also wonder if glue hitting the rough side might create any swelling issues.

Just curious why your doing a hardboard wrap?

[Horio]

Per Dar and Tek's recommendations, the plan is the cover the sides, top and rear similar to what Ben did. I liked the idea of the smaller seams, a tougher surface and corners. It's certainly a bit more work.

[dar47]

Dumb question. I'm planning to wrap the cabinets with 1/8" hardboard after gluing the baffles to the cabinet backs. I haven't really worked with hardboard before. Do I want to use masonite which has a rough side to help with gluing to the cabinets, or do I want hardboard which is tempered/smooth on both sides? Seems like trying to glue a tempered face to the cabinets could be troublesome for adhesion. I also wonder if glue hitting the rough side might create any swelling issues.

You can use either, if you get the good two sides sand one side with a 120 grit to help the glue get a bite. In terms of attaching just leave all sides proud, put some weight on top of the piece being glued then flush trim when dried.

This seams like a small detail but all the cabs i have done this way have stood up very well at the corners.

[Renron]

I too would use the smooth both sides and scuff up BOTH sides. Glue side 80 or 120 grit and finished (painted side) with 220 grit to promote adhesion.
I did NOT use hard board and the Plywood seams are now telegraphing thru the solid wood veneer on my Ardents. Veneer is still tight. It's not ugly bad, but I notice it, doesn't really bother me but......

On the subject of the leaking lid on the gravity gun, I've never tried it but I know some folks use ziplock plastic bags inside the cup .
Ron

[Renron]

link to plastic bag trick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxBAbzP9GJU

[Steve Manning]

I too would use the smooth both sides and scuff up BOTH sides. Glue side 80 or 120 grit and finished (painted side) with 220 grit to promote adhesion.
I did NOT use hard board and the Plywood seams are now telegraphing thru the solid wood veneer on my Ardents. Veneer is still tight. It's not ugly bad, but I notice it, doesn't really bother me but......

On the subject of the leaking lid on the gravity gun, I've never tried it but I know some folks use ziplock plastic bags inside the cup .
Ron

Well that sucks .... I can see some practice on 45 degree mitered corners in the future.

Cool trick with the plastic bag ..... too bad I ordered some 3M stuff last night.:W

[Horio]

More Progress:

Had the chance to work on the Ardents more this week. It's a bit deceiving how much work is involved in fabricating the internal brace structure. It felt like I spent as much time on the bracing as I did on the outer cabinet rear pieces.

First I cut the internal braces to fit the as-built cabinet dimensions.



Once I was happy with the fit, I cut the holes in the center brace, side braces and mid-bottom and rounded over the edges. Then I cut the notches for the woofers.





Then I used the domino for the joints between the side braces and center brace, and the mid-back to the mid-bottom.



With all of the parts ready, it was time for some glue! You can't have enough clamps... The dominos did a great job holding things nice and square during the glue up.

[TEK]

I’m almost tempted to build a new pair looking at those buitiful insides.

As a «low-cost» fun build I have been playing with the idea of building a set of speaker boxes after the Marten Coltran design and use the drivers and crossover from my Ardents inside that speaker box...

Just to get another build challange without having to invest in new drivers and crossover components.

(probably not going to happend, but I must say that I’m tempted)

[Horio]

Tek, you should totally go for it! I really love the look of those Marten cabinets.

[Horio]

Here are a few more photos of progress from last week. In addition to getting the internal bracing fabricated and glued into an assembly, I was able to glue up the cabinet backs. I have to say without the baffles attached, these cabinets are awfully tippy!

Routing the dados into the rear panels.



Again, you can't have too many clamps!



And we have a fully assembled cabinet rear. I decided to fillet some epoxy at some of the joints where things weren't quite as snug. Also used it in the mid enclosure to get a better seal.

[ergo]

Very nice progress there - keep up the good work!
As for tippyness, it will be better once the drivers are in as well. Moves the center of gravity forward and makes it much better balanced. But still in general these get real heavy the closer you get to full assembly. I still have Xover outside the box, but once those go in it adds another few kg - uhh.

I've been doing lots of listening as well as listening sessions with friends. Consensus from all is that from the ones I've built these are the best by a good margin. So hope this keeps you motivated
I did still tune the mid and tweeter resistors a bit. Will post details with some measurements once I get some time at my PC at home.

[Renron]

Excellent job Horio. You have a small car invested in Bessey clamps. I'm jealous.
Good to see I'm not the only one who rounds and sands the bracing holes. They won't be so tippy top heavy once drivers and baffles are installed.
IIRC my finished speakers weigh about 125LBS or so each. Ugh.
Ron

[Steve Manning]

Looking good, things are coming together nicely ..... I'm jealous of the Festool toys!

[Horio]

Damping Materials & Wire

Well spring is here in the PNW, and I'm getting eager to get back to work on these cabinets! Need to order a few more items so I can prepare the insides of the boxes prior to gluing the baffles to the cabinet rears.

My understanding is the mid chambers should be damped and the woofer chamber can just get some acousta-stuf. So what do you guys recommend as far as damping materials for the mid chamber? Seems like people have used a wide variety of stuff (felt, bitumen, that stuff use in cars, etc.). Any products you've had good luck with?

Also, any favorite type of hook-up wire for the tweeters, mids & woofers?

[TEK]

The point of the damping is to handlexquite high frequencies.
I think you see a lot if different options because it’s dependent on whats available to you.
Jon used led as I recall.

What options is available to you?

[ergo]

I used bitumen pads for car audio. Did not find a source for led locally.
All walls and about upto half of the midrange hole was covered with 10mm felt. And inside stuffing with Twaron Angel Hair in their recommended grams per liter formula.

I did not experiment with other fluffy options this far, so don't know if it does sound any different... but it's expensive, so must be better

I also made the midrange opening gradually increasing in diameter and and tried to round the corners on each layer.

[Evil Twin]

The Force is truly strong with these constructers - the thought and attention to detail is exemplary, and to be highly commended.

[TEK]

I used butimen as well.
But I was unable to hunt down any angels, so I used unicorn hair instead...

I do not think it worked as well, I guess my sound is a little less blessed than ergos :cry:

[TEK]

Me and the unicorn:



(or maybe not...)

[Renron]

I used lead from Roof Flashing in my build.(really)
Frog hair for dampening.
Ron

[Evil Twin]

I used lead from Roof Flashing in my build.(really)
Frog hair for dampening.
Ron

What, no unicorn tails?

[Renron]

Regrettably no, my master.
The Imperial repository had been looted by the Rebels and only frog hair was available.
Ron

[Steve Manning]

My understanding is Wookiee hair works well.

[Evil Twin]

Yes, but...

My own investigations concur with Mr. Manning, but new Galactic regulations preserving the rights of indigenous species make this option no longer viable...

[Horio]

I ordered some of the Jantzen 8mm damping felt from AudioHobby which is already in transit.
https://www.audiohobby.eu/et/damping-materials/8754-jantzen-audio-felt-for-speaker-damping-8-mm.html


I'm looking at ordering a 3 ft by 3 ft piece of 1/8" Butyl rubber from Discount Rubber Direct in the US. It's about $6 per square foot, and there should be plenty for the mid-range chambers. Seems like it should do the trick and its definitely more cost effective than the car stuff.

https://www.discountrubberdirect.com/product/butyl-rubber-18-36-x-36/

What did you guys use to glue down the bitumen/butyl? Just liquid nails or construction adhesive?

[TEK]

The one I used had a glue backing, so I only cut into pieces of the right form, removed the peel-of-sheet and mounted it directly on the wall.
Otherwise I think I would have used contact glue.

[Horio]

Damping the Mid-Chamber

Spent a little time this past weekend installing damping in the mid-chambers. I used construction adhesive to glue the 1/8" thick butyl rubber to the wood cabinet, then used the same adhesive to glue the Jantzen 10mm thick felt to the rubber. I washed the rubber to remove any films/oils, and the adhesive seemed to bond well to the rubber which I was a bit concerned about.

[Renron]

Looking good Horio. Building them is so much fun. Listening is even more.
Thank you DOC for the design and the joy you have given so many of us.
Ron

[Horio]

Slow and steady wins the race right? Need to run the wiring into the mid-chamber for the mid's and tweeters, then its time to finally glue on the baffles!

[TEK]

Looking very good, and remember me about my own build - just that you do it better
Keep up the good work!

[Renron]

TEK, They are all unique.