Sealed Statements 2.0 + Center Channel

[kevinm]

As I mentioned in my other threads....I'm going to rebuild my Statements in sealed cabinets. This will also, hopefully, let me have cabinets with less mistakes (famous last words), switch to the Vifa mids, use the larger center channel, and add sealed bass bins under the Statements for extended 2 channel bass.

I currently use a set of dual-opposed push/pull Dayton Audio DVC310-88s for LFE (detailed here https://www.htguide.com/forum/showth...dio-DVC310-88s ).

To cover the low end for two channel music, I am adding bass bins with dual-opposed push/pull RSS265HFs (thread detailed here https://www.htguide.com/forum/showth...modules-anyone ).

I recently just completed the subs and new entertainment console, and I think they've altered my finishing plans. I am entertaining the idea that a nice wood finish would be a better option than black - I'm thinking it would be too much black. Here is the current setup:



I'm thinking something dark and I could also be talked into doing a combination of veneer/paint. I live in the Pacific Northwest, so earthly tones seem to work best - anything with red not so much. I'd love suggestions on wood types/stain color (or new ideas altogether)!

Gratuitous wood pile shot to get things kicked off!

[kevinm]

Seeing lcolbur1's Curved Asonica's build has me very interested in a Walnut veneer - those were absolutely beautiful. Some internet searching and I found these:



Hmmm!

[kevinm]

Does anyone have any experience with something like this? How to achieve that finish/color? Is it more in the type of Walnut or the finish/stain? Or both?

[5th element]

Walnut comes in quite a few varieties if memory serves. Some being much lighter than others. The finish and/or stain can have as much to do with the end colour as the wood itself and some woods get noticeably darker when finished compared to others. Cherry for example is well known for becoming much darker when finished and it then darkens more over time. Something like maple isn't anywhere near as prone to this.

The most important thing, I would have thought, would be sourcing some quality veneer that has the figuring and appearance that you want. There are many different types of finish available nowadays, all that darken to different degrees, some of which don't darken much at all. I am sure you could find something to put on top of the veneer to arrive at the kind of look that you're after.

[bostonmurf]

thats the exact finish im looking for on my soon to be built statements! would be very interested to see how you get the same finish

[kevinm]

That's what I am guessing. It seems like the best approach will be for me to find a batch that is as close to the end result as possible.

I am thinking either this:

http://www.oakwoodveneer.com/walnut-veneer-natural-two-tone-flat-cut.html

Or this:

http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Paper-Backed-Walnut-Veneer-Flat-Cut-4-x-8.html

The latter has a darker color to it - which I am after - but I don't trust that picture as much as the other one. I think I am going to need some samples!

[bostonmurf]

i just grabbed this from ebay to mess about with. I'm going to veneer an mdf box that houses my amp for the bass kickers so this seems perfect for a trial. if its useless i figure ill learn a few things about finishing without spending a lot of money. who knows i may just get lucky

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291229261334

[kevinm]

Not a bad deal at all. Keep me updated.....I haven't really ventured into the finish portion too much. I'm really curious. How dark are you looking to get it?

[bostonmurf]

the same as the Curved Asonica's that you posted about, thats an amazing finish. love how the grain came out. I'm new to finishing too so i figured what the hell, do it as a side project and if it goes well add it on the statements. i got the piece for 15 bucks plus 15 shipping so its no big loss if it doesn't go well.

[dar47]

You can have Oakwood send you picks of different lot's, say 3 samples of 4' X 8' sheets of 4 lots, 12 pics. I did this with the Ardent build to get the contrast I wanted on my Cherry rustic plank. I think I chose from 2 different lots if I remember. Great guys made sure I was happy.

[kevinm]

that's excellent advice! I was leaning towards Oakwood because I liked the grain. I will definitely have to email after I calculate how much I need. Thank you for the recommendation.

[dar47]

No problem, I think if you want lcolbur1's look it's more like Oakwood's. Here a pic of my buddies whose used veneer supplies (darker).

Image not available

[kevinm]

Beautiful! That's very close to the shade I'm looking for. Any idea what he used for the finish?

[dar47]

Beautiful! That's very close to the shade I'm looking for. Any idea what he used for the finish?

Those were sprayed with satin poly with no stain. He going to take a pic for me tonight to see how much they have darkened over a few years. With walnut you should try and get some UV protection in the finish as others have pointed out they will darken over time.

[kevinm]

Wow. No stain? Did just adding poly darken them that much?

I'm trying to decide if I want to do a roundover or not. If I understand correctly, it only works with a really big roundover on the vertical sides of the baffle. Then the veneer is wrapped around so that the sides and baffle are one piece. Hmmm. Sounds like it would be very tough.

[dar47]

Yes, you can get samples and try different options maybe try staining lighter walnuts.

I have rapped side front side using a 3/4" radius bit. This is the iron on glue method. May be more tricky with a pressure sensitive back PSA veneer.



after rapping.

Image not available

[dar47]

The other option is rabbit in some hard wood corners. You can veneer to the hardwood them round over the hardwood.



After rounding over the hardwood.

[dar47]

O Ya my Son reminded me wrapping not rapping.

[kevinm]

Haha, is it spelled rapped up north?

That is such a clean look when wrapped I think. It really looks elegant since so much of the cabinet is covered in 1 piece of veneer. What glue did you use underneath? Heatlock? I used Titebond on the Media Console above it and it seemed to work okay.

Thanks for the pictures!

[dar47]

Heatlock, Titebond 1 (has more reactivation time) or Titebond 2 all work. After using the PSA back veneer I will use it when ever I can as it lays down nice and has the flattest surface. You just have to prep the surface with an epoxy or something like General Finishes sanding sealer.

[soundemon]

I used walnut stain on walnut veneer and they turned out pretty nice and dark. Juts what I was looking for:

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?33550-Soundemons-Statement-LCR-build/page3

[kevinm]

Wow! Those are beautiful. Exactly what I am after. Where did you source the veneer and stain?

[kevinm]

Never mind on the veneer, remembered how to read and went through the thread. Which stain + poly did you end up using?

[soundemon]

The veneer was raw strips found in ebay. There is a ton on there, very inexpensive but harder to work with because it is raw veneer, no paper backing or anything and in strips. Send me a pm and I'll try to link the seller I typically use.

Once I'm back home I'll take a pic of the stain I used. It was a polyurethane with stain mixed right in. Very convenient and easy to apply.

[kevinm]

ALRIGHT

Now we are talking. My mids FINALLY came in yesterday and my veneer has been ordered this morning from Oakwood.

Cabinets should be veneer ready by the end of the weekend. Does anyone have any good tips/threads on wood veneer? I read the usual basic ones on tech talk and have been watching what people have done here, but this will be my first "advanced" veneer.

I plan to round over the vetcfal edges of my towers, so I assume using one piece of veneer that wraps around the left, front and right side is optimal?

I plan to use the Titebond 1-iron on method. Any problems with that?

Will do a cabinet construction post this weekend as I head some "fun" learning experiences is like to share.

[soundemon]

ALRIGHT

Now we are talking. My mids FINALLY came in yesterday and my veneer has been ordered this morning from Oakwood.

Cabinets should be veneer ready by the end of the weekend. Does anyone have any good tips/threads on wood veneer? I read the usual basic ones on tech talk and have been watching what people have done here, but this will be my first "advanced" veneer.

I plan to round over the vetcfal edges of my towers, so I assume using one piece of veneer that wraps around the left, front and right side is optimal?

I plan to use the Titebond 1-iron on method. Any problems with that?

Will do a cabinet construction post this weekend as I head some "fun" learning experiences is like to share.

Hopefully you got a bit more veneer that you need. My advice would be to try several sample pieces before doing the speakers. There is definitely a feel to it.

[kevinm]

Yeah, that's what I've heard. I ordered (3) 4x8' sheets - which leaves me about half of a sheet extra. However, I might need to change my order depending on what Oakwood comes back with - they were recommending a different version if I need to edge match.

What seller on Ebay did you use?

[soundemon]

The seller was rjfritz123. The stuff I bought was raw veneer. You are getting the nicer stuff from oak wood, so I bet you won't have as much trouble as I did.
My next build I'll be ordering the big sheets from oakwood. The raw strips were very challenging to work with.

[kevinm]

After chatting with Peter from Oakwood Veneer (highly recommend them - they called me after I submitted my order and saw that I was making speakers because they wanted to make sure I was getting the right veneer) I ended up grabbing the Walnut Rift Cut http://www.oakwoodveneer.com/walnut-veneer-rift.html.

It's the stuff on the right.



Hoping to end up with a finished product like this

[kevinm]

I wanted to share a few things I learned (most of it learned from others) this round while correcting mistakes I made.

Here are they in order as shown below:

1. Adding depth to a driver recess
2. Fixing uneven edges after being glued together (you'll know what I mean when you see the picture below)
3. Accidentally cutting the driver recess in the wrong location

For the driver recess, I took a 1/2in scrap of MDF and cut a circle the exact diameter of said driver recess. I then placed it on top of the hole I needed to deepen. I used the driver to ensure it was lined up correctly. Example below:



After it was lined up correctly, I used a top-bearing flush bit on my router to add the extra depth. Works very well since it used the 1/2in MDF board as a guide. Make sure to grab the 1/2in length router bit since you'll be working with shallow driver recesses.



Next was trimming excess material off an edge that would caused a gap when I glued the front baffle on. With this project, I had a few places where the boards were way off, like the picture below:



So I used the same router bit as above and used another scrap mdf board as a straight edge. I clamped it into the back of the cabinet so I had a free edge to route against.



So, I forgot to double and then triple check my measurements on my first baffle. I got two first passes through before I realized I had used the wrong locations. This caused the driver holes to overlap. Naturally, I flipped over and used the other side Of course when it came time to do the chamfers for the mids, I went at it and found out the chamfer wasn't big enough to hide the mistakes. See below:



So, I filled the holes with Auto Body Bondo and THEN chamfered. It turned out great

[kevinm]

The good news is after spending an entire day tweaking and fixing mistakes, I am starting to make some real progress. I have the first cabinet in the final gluing stage - other two are next in line.

[kevinm]

Ahhh, NOW we are getting somewhere.

Cabinets are glued, trimmed, bonded, trimmed and sanded. I am ready for the veneer. Before I roll on the Titebond 1 (I'm using the iron on method), do I need to use sanding sealer?





Tomorrow I will be cutting the veneer into the panels. I'm veneering all but the bottom with the Walnut veneer. Bottoms will black melamite from PE. Another question, my towers have a 1/2in radius round over. Will this be sufficient to bend the walnut around? I almost purchased a 3/4in radius bit at the local hardware store, but was fairly concerned about using a bit that big.

[BobEllis]

I had some trouble getting paper backed walnut to wrap a 1.25" radius with the iron on method. More getting it to stick than the bend. I seem to remember some suggesting 3/4" was about the minimum radius that would work. Go slowly and get the whole edge adhered before going further around the radius, repeat. Maybe 1/8" at a time.

With I backed veneer you can use a softening solution but I suspect that would destroy your paper backing.

When using large diameter bits I use a shop made base with a fence. Picture turning a router table top upside down. I built a box behind the bit so if it comes apart there is something between me and the bit. Make it big enough you could attach a hose to it for dust collection.

Hope this helps.

[kevinm]

That sounds like a great idea, Bob. By any chance do you have a picture of your home made base?

[kevinm]

Well, today I was able to get the veneer cut, center and bass bins, prepped and center channel successfully covered. Before and after the 'Hawks game tomorrow, I hope to successfully cover the two bass bins. Then it is on to the towers!

[Jim Holtz]

Very nice! :T

Jim

[5th element]

Oh wow, that does look very nice

[bostonmurf]

there really turning out awesome Kevin, as always incredible work! just out of interest what router bit are you using to trim back the veneer around the driver holes in the recesses. I'm guessing like mine theres only about 1/4 in depth to play with which rules out most bits.

[kevinm]

Bass Bins are veneered!

Here is a top picture




And a picture showing bottoms using the Black Melamine by Band It from Parts Express on the bottoms:



Here is the stuff

https://www.parts-express.com/band-it-black-melamine-24-x-96-iron-on--260-031

[kevinm]

there really turning out awesome Kevin, as always incredible work! just out of interest what router bit are you using to trim back the veneer around the driver holes in the recesses. I'm guessing like mine theres only about 1/4 in depth to play with which rules out most bits.

Thanks, Boston.

I'm going to use on of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/270388799194...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The key is to make sure it has the uber short tip for shallow dados - mine is only 1/4in. More than short enough for the recesses. I haven't tried it yet, but I've seen Jon Marsh use one, so I figure it's a wise path

[5th element]

You're going to have more bass than your house can handle shortly :P

[kevinm]

You're going to have more bass than your house can handle shortly :P

Hehhe. I just switched out the Dayton SA1000 I was using for my LFE with an Inuke 6000dsp....an entirely new experience.

The SA1000 is going to power the bass bins now

[kevinm]

Final pair

Main cabinets have been freshly rounded over with the 3/4in Freud Roundover Riuter Bit (that thing is a beast - spits chunks at you instead of saw dust) and finished sanded.

I've gotten a head start on the veneer - completed the bottoms and back tonight. Tomorrow I start the big wrap-around piece. Yikes!



I've started my test piece. I lightly sanded with 220 grit, put 2-3 coats of Watco Danish Oil Dark Walnut and then 3 coats of Clear Gloss Wipe-On Poly. I planning on using satin poly as the final top coat.

Does anyone have any steps they recommend that missed?

[BobEllis]

For next time, if you're spitting chunks with a router you are cutting too aggressively. Light cuts will give you a smoother surface in the end.

Hard to tell from the photos, but did you use some sort of grain filler? I think I'd put a few more coats of Watco and sand up to 420 to 600 grit and clean thoroughly before the final coat(s). I tend to use gloss finish and knock down the gloss to the desired sheen with steel wool/rottenstone. I think the finish looks deeper than when using a satin finish. Of course you need a decent depth of finish, so probably 3 coats minimum.

[kevinm]

Thanks, Bob. By light cuts, do you mean less material on each pass? With my 1/2in radius round over already there, I was surprised it was shooting chunks (more like splinters), but I did have my router on the lowest setting because of the size of the bit. Think that could contribute at all?

I didn't use any sort of grain filler - first crack at staining of any kind, so I'm noob testing. How aggressive do you sand? I just light sanded with 220 one side (the slightly dark, richer side) and left the other as is to see what the differences would be. Do you sand up to 420/600 before the stain? Then apply Watco Danish Oil and then add a few coats of Poly?

I've also seen some woodworkers mention wet sanding with the Danish Oil to fill in the grain a little. Have anybody tried this?