Wavecor Ardent Journal - the first Builds

[JonMarsh]

The mil spec teflon insulated silver plated stuff at ApexJr remains reasonably priced all said and done.

Some of my wiring today was done with TFE insulated mil spec wire like he sells; i was thinking about that while soldering with no issues with the insulation. For some parts of the crossover uninsulated bus wire is much more convenient, when there are multiple connections to be made to one short lead.

I keep forgetting about them, the last time I bought from them must have been 2006? But at $42.50 for 100ft of AWG 12 it's more like a steal deal than just a low price. I'd better call him up after he opens after the holidays, get some on order. I remember, now, though, the thing that is weird (by today's standards) is his order process, which is right out of the 90's- no online ordering, no CC, just money order, check, or cashiers check; doesn't seem to even take PayPal.
His tagline, "Best viewed on Internet Explorer 5" says a bit about his web technology. Well, can't ignore the prices, though...

[benthe8track]

Some of my wiring today was done with TFE insulated mil spec wire like he sells; i was thinking about that while soldering with no issues with the insulation. For some parts of the crossover uninsulated bus wire is much more convenient, when there are multiple connections to be made to one short lead.

I keep forgetting about them, the last time I bought from them must have been 2006? But at $42.50 for 100ft of AWG 12 it's more like a steal deal than just a low price. I'd better call him up after he opens after the holidays, get some on order. I remember, now, though, the thing that is weird (by today's standards) is his order process, which is right out of the 90's- no online ordering, no CC, just money order, check, or cashiers check; doesn't seem to even take PayPal.
His tagline, "Best viewed on Internet Explorer 5" says a bit about his web technology. Well, can't ignore the prices, though...

LOL @ IE 5. Have you ever made a xover on a pcb? The same place as the router has the equipment to etch (is that right?) PCBs. Could be a neat touch but would be a bit of a learning curve for me.

[JonMarsh]

I've designed gazillions of PCB's, starting with light table work in the 70's, and of course CAD since the 80's. For a low volume job, it tends to be expensive, especially with heavy weight copper like you'd need for this kind of current, and 0.093 substrate instead of 0.62, for the mechanical strength. OTOH, with four sets in the pipeline, which is eight crossovers, maybe that's a worthwhile thought... will have to create CAD footprints for the individual parts, too. Not a big deal, just some additional time. I've done that in the past for some older crossovers. Wouldn't be hard to expand that.

The challenge can be having the flexibility to tweak component values or configuration. OTOH, I expect the topology is going to be a lot like the current Isiris. then, it comes down to specific component selections- for example, I'm trying to walk a like between cost and performance and size- so I'm using some premium caps (Jantzen Superior Z) in the midrange network in parallel with some lower cost ones (Jantzen Cross Cap). The lower cost ones are smaller, because they use thinner film, thinner metallization, and don't have the elaborate mechanical stabilization tube and potting. That has a significant impact on the crossover size.

That's something to discuss with you and the rest- perhaps I should do a semi-budget crossover design with only premium parts in the tweeter, as well as a "mixed mode" design like the current Isiris, and you can individually chose your preference. We also have to decide on the optimum assembly locations and crossover board size.

Let's kick this around and see what the consensus is. For space reasons, I'd expect if we mount internally to need to split them up into separate boards. The mid is always biggest... as it's an LP and HP crossover combined.

[TEK]

Drifting off here... but how many different variation of the Ardent and Isiris are there (going to be) - by you?

[JonMarsh]

New, Improved, for 2014!!

Drifting off here... but how many different variation of the Ardent and Isiris are there (going to be) - by you?

well, I have the original cabinets, which have been modified from the Seas woofers to the Illuminator woofers. Those have been more in the way of development test beds, though I've spent some time with them in my main system.

This new variant, which we call the Wavecor Ardent, is getting a lot of "trickle down" technologies from the Isiris. (Hah! That's how we'd describe it if we were a boutique speaker manufacturer!) Two main items:

One, that means much improved characteristics for the woofers (IMO), specifically higher Q 4 ohm units (higher being relative, i.e., 0.36 to 0.4 typical Qts), with substantially more Xmax and Sd, and a more linear motor to be used in a sealed enclosure of the same dimensions. (the midrange and tweeter will stay the same, the Accuton C79 for the midrange, and either a SS 6640 Be tweeter or 6600).

The new woofer is the Wavecor SW223BD01, which is 8-3/4", not a 6-1/2" or near 7".



It uses an improved motor structure from Wavecor, actually quite similar to what Accuton is doing on some new products, with their balanced drive pole piece configuration:




This results in a more uniform inductivity and more uniform (symmetrical) driving force, which will lower HD2.





Here are simulations from Wavecor for sealed operation- we'll be operating on the 20 liter line, the red one, with a total of 40 liters for two drivers.




With any reasonable in room boundary lift, they should be pretty much flat in room to 30 Hz. And will have excellent step response, with no ringing, unlike ported designs.




The other area for significant work is the crossover, which if it tests out the way I expect, will be using concepts from the Isiris as regards the target transfer function- particularly to maintain and improve high performance while reducing component cost, compared with the Duelund network which I'm very fond of, but is difficult to realize with it's slow midrange slopes. The 2nd pass on the Isiris midrange crossover is in final wiring and should be in testing tomorrow. So, the current Isiris will likely be the starting point for the crossover:




In my mind, this is THE Ardent design, as finally evolved and realized. Unfortunately, some things don't change- slow work takes time! I'm pretty excited though about this has evolved, and really looking forward to having these built.

This thread will document the design and build process more completely as we go along, and I hope to figure out a way to provide some linked downloads for PDF documentation, including concept presentation.

[benthe8track]

I've designed gazillions of PCB's, starting with light table work in the 70's, and of course CAD since the 80's. For a low volume job, it tends to be expensive, especially with heavy weight copper like you'd need for this kind of current, and 0.093 substrate instead of 0.62, for the mechanical strength. OTOH, with four sets in the pipeline, which is eight crossovers, maybe that's a worthwhile thought... will have to create CAD footprints for the individual parts, too. Not a big deal, just some additional time. I've done that in the past for some older crossovers. Wouldn't be hard to expand that.

The challenge can be having the flexibility to tweak component values or configuration. OTOH, I expect the topology is going to be a lot like the current Isiris. then, it comes down to specific component selections- for example, I'm trying to walk a like between cost and performance and size- so I'm using some premium caps (Jantzen Superior Z) in the midrange network in parallel with some lower cost ones (Jantzen Cross Cap). The lower cost ones are smaller, because they use thinner film, thinner metallization, and don't have the elaborate mechanical stabilization tube and potting. That has a significant impact on the crossover size.

That's something to discuss with you and the rest- perhaps I should do a semi-budget crossover design with only premium parts in the tweeter, as well as a "mixed mode" design like the current Isiris, and you can individually chose your preference. We also have to decide on the optimum assembly locations and crossover board size.

Let's kick this around and see what the consensus is. For space reasons, I'd expect if we mount internally to need to split them up into separate boards. The mid is always biggest... as it's an LP and HP crossover combined.

Good to know! The substrates they had there were about 10 bucks pop according the EE who was using the equipment but I have no idea what thickness they were. I agree they will have to be split up. We were discussing using industrial velcro (as my dad has in the past) to mount them on the inner walls. The cleats leave a relatively small footprint (~10"x6") if we wanted to mount them in the middle of the removable base. Height becomes an issue with the braces at 2.5" that tapers up to 5" under the brace. In retrospect I could have hollowed out 2 layers of the bases to give us a bit more room.

Maybe there isn't much value in putting them on a PCB beyond them looking professional haha. It's an option anyways

[JonMarsh]

Good to know! The substrates they had there were about 10 bucks pop according the EE who was using the equipment but I have no idea what thickness they were. I agree they will have to be split up. We were discussing using industrial velcro (as my dad has in the past) to mount them on the inner walls. The cleats leave a relatively small footprint (~10"x6") if we wanted to mount them in the middle of the removable base. Height becomes an issue with the braces at 2.5" that tapers up to 5" under the brace. In retrospect I could have hollowed out 2 layers of the bases to give us a bit more room.

Maybe there isn't much value in putting them on a PCB beyond them looking professional haha. It's an option anyways

we can discuss the options, then I could do a sample design and get that priced out with my usual vendors- of course, I'm used to going the whole enchilada with solder mask and silk screen. Bare boards in copper are faster and cheaper, but, you know, you get what you pay for.

Ease of assembly for those not of a wires and sparks bent might justify the cost- we can discuss.

[dar47]

we can discuss the options, then I could do a sample design and get that priced out with my usual vendors- of course, I'm used to going the whole enchilada with solder mask and silk screen. Bare boards in copper are faster and cheaper, but, you know, you get what you pay for.

Ease of assembly for those not of a wires and sparks bent might justify the cost- we can discuss.

This world class speaker build hasn't quite gotten out of hand yet :T

Went in to work a little late and stopped by after work to epoxy up the last 2 baffles. I'm off till Tuesday so I should get all the 10 degree cuts on the parts done and start assembling a box. By the way Jon just so you know, Ben is trying to cherry pick parts :lol:

[JonMarsh]

This world class speaker build hasn't quite gotten out of hand yet :T

Went in to work a little late and stopped by after work to epoxy up the last 2 baffles. I'm off till Tuesday so I should get all the 10 degree cuts on the parts done and start assembling a box. By the way Jon just so you know, Ben is trying to cherry pick parts :lol:

Boys will be boys... :W

[TEK]

In my mind, this is THE Ardent design, as finally evolved and realized. Unfortunately, some things don't change- slow work takes time! I'm pretty excited though about this has evolved, and really looking forward to having these built.

This thread will document the design and build process more completely as we go along, and I hope to figure out a way to provide some linked downloads for PDF documentation, including concept presentation.

This is very interesting - I now understand better where this thread is coming from.
I see from the wavecor homepage that the woofer is referred to as a subwoofer and is wery well in the lower region. How is the crossover point between this "subwoofer" and the accuton mid tone?

Just to be sure:
By 6600, you mean this?: http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/d3004-660000.pdf
And by 6640, you mean this?: http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/d3004-664000.pdf

(I better get my sub done, get my hands on that bamboo and start building soon ;-)

[JonMarsh]

The Wavecor is referred to as a subwoofer, but it's cone is well designed and the breakup mode is an 8 dB peak at about 4500 Hz. I would have less trouble making a two way crossed at 1500 Hz with this than the Excel 8" Linkwitz uses in the Orion. What we are giving up here is sensitivity- it doesn't take much to drive the mid or tweeter, but they have to be scaled back to match the 86 dB sensitivity of the woofer. So, no SET amplifiers, but good AB linear or digital amps should work out nice. I've got an NCORE 400 build in process I'll be trying out.

The Aurasound NS12 was also billed as a sub woofer, but it has it's first breakup at 2300 Hz, and has monotonically decreasing distortion to 1 kHz, unlike most woofers.

You've got the right tweeters linked- one could argue that the 6600 has better 30 degree off axis response, but I really like how the 6640 sounds with a wide range of music- it was the third tweeter I tried in this design, trying to get what I thought was an effective tone match for the C79, in resolution and neutrality.

[benthe8track]

I've got an NCORE 400 build in process I'll be trying out.

You have a build thread for this? Could be a good option to power these wavecor ardents.

[JonMarsh]

You have a build thread for this? Could be a good option to power these wavecor ardents.

No, not yet- I've been in the parts and component gathering phase, particularly chassis, which is about finished. One more order... Then I'll document everything when i start working. My best guess is after things get resolved at work regarding my current role (embedded at customer site 100%) versus preferred role by me and management. I.E., we have to hire someone. :W Starting Monday I'm back in the Cupertino grind.

[benthe8track]

I'm looking forward to the updates!

We test fit and made some minor tweeks on the table saw to line up one of the boxes today. I think if we did another iteration I could adjust the models so they slap together like lego. Other than a little adjustments they went together really well:



Ignore the top because it wasn't seated in this photo but we are pretty happy about how the parts fit together. We are waiting to hear back about the availability of a 14" panel saw to cut the facets on Monday. If that doesn't pan out I'll machine the fixture I made and well be CNCing the facets. The 10 degree cuts are finished on the baffles and were done on a sliding compound miter saw. It took a lot of measuring, adjusting and stop setting but they all turned out great:

[JonMarsh]

Looks like everything will go together very smoothly. This is a nice stage in a project to see, where you can see that the planning and effort has paid off and there are some nice "boxes" in the pipeline!

Gonna have to go looking at some curly maple veneer soon, I think!

Now, a 14" panel saw... that's a serious saw, alright!

[TEK]

Welcome to the new thread! this topic deserves it's own space; it's menthe8track's baby, with my assistance and participation, given that I proposed the idea a while back and have a lot of interest in it myself!


Now, one of the advantages to the stiffer materials is that we don't need to layer up so much stuff to get good strength. I used this to good effect in the Isiris build (Three Way Design study for now, independent thread pending time and completing the last details of construction). In that system, I was able to reduce the front panel thickness from 4" to 3"- i'd propose doing that here also, as it increases the working enclosure volume for a given outside dimension, and reduces the tunnel effects for the mid woofers and midrange.

In the original Ardent front panels I actually fabricated up the panels in two sections, as this facilitated the necessary bevel cuts on the front.

Here are the original Ardent front panels after the two sections have been glued up:




The main working section of the front panel was 2-3/4" in depth; this was the part cut with the bevels:





Then it was glued up with the "back/inner" 1-1/2" panel section:




One must be creative and work around the limitations of available tools...

How do you fasten the elements to the baffle?
From the pictures above, it seems like you are fastening the elements to just a couple of layers of wood, and that you have a wider cutout under that.
Is that correct, or do you let the bolts go all the way trough the baffle? (I assume you don't used wooden scruves)

benthe8track: what is your plan? Seems like you will let the bolts go all the way trough?

[JonMarsh]

You know what they say, Tek, never assume!

There are many possible ways to skin the cat. You can get threaded inserts for which the holes must be pre-drilled into the baffle, then the insert threaded in, then the driver mounted with machine screw. I did do this with the midrange and tweeter, but largely decided it was a waste of time- more suited to MDF. You see, the bamboo panels are very stiff and dense- like hard rock maple. If you drill the right size pilot hole and use a type of screw such as metal drywall screws that cuts threads well, then the screw goes in very securely and is like tightening a bolt into an aluminum block- when it reaches the end of the possible travel, it stops hard. Because of this characteristic, I don't worry anymore about using high grade wood screws directly in to bamboo. It is very secure, and simpler to install. I buy high tensile strength screws from Rockeler wood working, which use square drive heads. Those were used exclusively in the Isiris.

[TEK]

Ok, so with hard wood like bamboo you get a good result using wooden scruves.
As the mechanic stress has to be highest on the woofers I assume that there is no reson to use anything else on the mid and tweeter. Thats for sure is an easier solution than threded inserts and "those that is self fastening on the backside but that I dont remember the name of" that I uses for my sub.

[benthe8track]

Yeah I was considering threaded inserts as well but for now all of the baffles will get an 1/8" pilot hole which is the correct for a number 10 wood screw. The socket head cap like wood screws from madisound could be a nice touch for the woofers without having to install inserts. Failing that you can still use inserts as the pilot holes will be here.

They primarily engage on the bamboo, it depends how long you want your screws I guess, the will be exposed in the baltic if you wanted to use something crazy like a 2.5" screw.





Hey Jon, what's the game plan for stuffing/carpeting? We picked up some dacron and carpet for the boxes but aren't sure how stuffed they should be.

[JonMarsh]

Well, you can fluff the dacron out a little, but not a lot- don't pack it in there to where it's compressing, but a occupying most of the space in the woofer and midrange cavity is appropriate.

[dar47]

Looks like everything will go together very smoothly. This is a nice stage in a project to see, where you can see that the planning and effort has paid off and there are some nice "boxes" in the pipeline!

Gonna have to go looking at some curly maple veneer soon, I think!

Now, a 14" panel saw... that's a serious saw, alright!

Some thoughts for others using a wood working space not their own. Never assume any of the equipment is set up right. I thought I would do the 10 degree cuts on their little 30" Jet table saw but discovered the table was to narrow for the parts to crosscut with my Excalibur miter gauge. Someone alined the table slot to blade vary well or (factory setting was good) but the fence was badly alined and the distance marking were out by 1/8". I hated seeing young guys ripping with the a vary dull blade on the table and blowing breakers on soft wood. I switched blades when ever we needed the saw and cuts were easy, (not a bad little saw).

We used their 12" Dewalt sliding compound saw to make the 11 1/4" 10 degree cuts. Again badly alined with a dull blade and sitting on a vary cheap shaky non Dewalt stand. I bought them a new 80 tooth blade and set the saw up and moved it to my saw horse table were it was clamped down. It's vary capable when set up stable. If you buy one get the Dewalt stand that is designed for the saw. I think we found it's limit with a 40 degree cut through 3" of bamboo and BB. though. I want to see the 14" panel saw in action!

[JonMarsh]

Setup and blades are critical, I fully agree. Though I'm not a skilled woodworker, (just a wires and sparks kind of guy) believe me I understand the importance of tools. Best money I spent on the Isiris project was that 12" DeWalt sliding compound saw I bought in 2012- the DWS780 has been super. First thing I did with it was toss the blade that came with it and bought a top of the line DeWalt blade for it.




yeah, I expect that a 40 degree cut through 3" of bamboo and BB can be tricky- I was able to take care of my cutting goals with the Isiris, but JUST BARELY! And if I recall correctly, I used a few tricks, too...

[TEK]

Not 45?

[benthe8track]

Well 40 or 50 degrees, depending what surface you reference. We wanted a little more extreme looking geometry but now it's a pain in the ass haha.

[JonMarsh]

Well 40 or 50 degrees, depending what surface you reference. We wanted a little more extreme looking geometry but now it's a pain in the ass haha.

Getting fancy is always a pain in the ass! :W

[benthe8track]

The past few days we have been assembling our boxes:



Lots o clamps:



They needed a little bit of adjustment the old fashioned way but the fit turned out pretty good:



We also found out tonight that we could do the 40 (or 50 degree depending who you talk to) cuts on the top just barely on the table saw:



Hopefully well hear back from the dude with the 14" panel saw before the weekend then we can mail a set to California early next week..and if this cold keeps up I might mail myself there.

[TEK]

Are you making more than one pair at the same time here?
How many are you building?

[benthe8track]

Yeah 8 baffles, 6 full sets of parts and assembling 4 boxes. People in the space we are using keep asking if we are selling these haha.

Anyone on here vacuum bag an assembled box before? I have a vacuum source and have been toying with the idea of making a bag. Half of the stuff I've read on the subject suggest your box will be instantly crushed and the people who say they have done it don't provide many details. Most references I've found are on flat panels.

[dar47]

Not so fast there Bobilouie you have to make those grills first before he gets anything. All though you are doing most of the thinning around here!

[JonMarsh]

The past few days we have been assembling our boxes:



Lots o clamps:



They needed a little bit of adjustment the old fashioned way but the fit turned out pretty good:



We also found out tonight that we could do the 40 (or 50 degree depending who you talk to) cuts on the top just barely on the table saw:



Hopefully well hear back from the dude with the 14" panel saw before the weekend then we can mail a set to California early next week..and if this cold keeps up I might mail myself there.

Both would be fine and welcome! I've been wondering how you guys have been getting through what I've heard about the temperatures up there, but then I'm sure you're more used to them than we are! I lived in Colorado 18 years, have seen some cold spells, but nothing quite like this latest one.

[JonMarsh]

Yeah 8 baffles, 6 full sets of parts and assembling 4 boxes. People in the space we are using keep asking if we are selling these haha.

Anyone on here vacuum bag an assembled box before? I have a vacuum source and have been toying with the idea of making a bag. Half of the stuff I've read on the subject suggest your box will be instantly crushed and the people who say they have done it don't provide many details. Most references I've found are on flat panels.

It's usually done on flat panels- I've heard a couple of times of people using them on bigger items, but you have to be careful about the pressure or you tear the bag apart or crush your working item. 15 lb per square inch with a really hard vacuum. Of course, you don't need that much for veneering. I'm debating methods- I've had good results with the hot iron over cloth method, but also hear this contact cement is quite good, and I'm experienced doing good jobs with contact cement.

http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Better-Bond-Titan-DX-Premium-Contact-Cement.html

Though ordinary PVA glue works pretty well with the iron on methods, this stuff is good:

http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Better-Bond-Heat-Lock-Veneer-Glue.html

[dar47]

Both would be fine and welcome! I've been wondering how you guys have been getting through what I've heard about the temperatures up there, but then I'm sure you're more used to them than we are! I lived in Colorado 18 years, have seen some cold spells, but nothing quite like this latest one.

I'm one of the few nut jobs that need these cold spells for work as a model the Provence's natural gas distribution system and with Winnipeg being one of the largest coldest cities in the world we have a design limit of -38C or 56 degree days. This is not just a few days, I plan for at least 7 days of day time lows colder then -30C with the period ending at -38C. This mimics the lower pressure networks inability to repack and when you hit these temps at the end of the cycle usually in the morning between 6:00am and 9:00 when people get up and turn their thermostats up and industry begins their day, we get record flows with high gas velocities that causes all kinds of operational issues. These calibration periods usually happen every 5 years, 96,99 and the last one was in 2004. So people forget and start to wine but we do get -40C. dry bulb not this wind chill stuff.

On the personal side stuff at -35C things do not work all that well. Last Monday Ben's lovely Mom got in her car first and used the double garage door opener in the SUV to open the door and it only went half way up and she didn't notice so she took out the door and broke the back visor on the SUV. The door lodged in the door jamb and I had to use my trusty 5lb sledge to bang it back in. I get to play Carlton your door man for a while in manual mode until the insurance guy shows up. The funny thing is we have lived in this environment all our lives and we still don't learn these things.

[TEK]

Hi

I just wondered if anyone of you could say something about how you expect these Wavecor Ardent speakers to sound.
Do you expect it to be a warm, soft sound signature that is forgiven regarding the playback Equipment used? Or maybe a clear bright signature that is very revealing and demand really state of the art playback Equipment? Or mabye something totally different?
As I'm thinking about building these it would be interesting to here what the sound profile the designer(s) of this editions of the Ardent is targeting...

[Carl V]

Hi

I just wondered if anyone of you could say something about how you expect these Wavecor Ardent speakers to sound.
Do you expect it to be a warm, soft sound signature that is forgiven regarding the playback Equipment used? Or maybe a clear bright signature that is very revealing and demand really state of the art playback Equipment? Or mabye something totally different?
As I'm thinking about building these it would be interesting to here what the sound profile the designer(s) of this editions of the Ardent is targeting...

I have not heard this design. Have heard briefly the original SEAS reed cones design at Thomas' house.\
Nice. I thought it struck a nice balance from forgiving & revealing. Phil Bamberg also had used the Reed cones.
with similar success.

I have heard the Wavecors in other designs. depending on how you hear things
thinking about SS8545> Revelator Slit Cone > Iluminator paper > Illuminator Metal.
I'd place the Wavecor closer the Illuminator levels. ymmv, imho etc.,

[JonMarsh]

Hi

I just wondered if anyone of you could say something about how you expect these Wavecor Ardent speakers to sound.
Do you expect it to be a warm, soft sound signature that is forgiven regarding the playback Equipment used? Or maybe a clear bright signature that is very revealing and demand really state of the art playback Equipment? Or mabye something totally different?
As I'm thinking about building these it would be interesting to here what the sound profile the designer(s) of this editions of the Ardent is targeting...

Forgiving playback equipment at modest to moderate price is vinyl, BTW....

In the end tonal balance is something that can be adjusted to create one sort of signature or another- but my nominal goal is a pretty flat/neutral speaker, which does favor naturally recorded high resolution program material and source components over pop and rock, though these days you can get a lot of remastered disks that are much closer to true Hi Fi than the original versions (striking example is the new remaster of "Close to the Edge", as well as some of the SACD re-issues, including the 2003 remastered Tommy). One point behind this cabinet design is to improve the polar response; this means room acoustics and other factors will have some additional impact on perceived balance. The newest Return to Forever recordings, like the new Anthology, would fit in that category. What I would tend to recommend for this system would be something like the NAD M51 or better if you're going digital, and be careful with the power amp choice (M51 includes a very good digital volume control and you don't need a preamp with it).

I will test them with the M51, the Metric Halo ULN-8, the Berkely Alpha DAC (original), and my TotalDAC D1, and maybe my Marantz SACD player for a little bit of reality check, with Cambridge 840W amp and Aragon 8008 or Palladiums. I plan to use them in something like a classic Cardas setup. I'm not sure how Ben and the others want to setup theirs, and I'll help out with voicing adjustment as needed. Crossover topology will likely be derived from the Isiris, not the older Ardent. Fewer components, better performance and less driver stress, I think... we'll see. I can do a cross check with one of the original Ardent's at the same time, checking in mono. I have enough drivers on hand to have three working (3 C79's on hand). (don't ask what happened to the other one.... )

[benthe8track]

These guys are going to be my workhorse mains, however, I'm moving to a (probably small) downtown condo in Calgary come may so I don't imagine they will even get too much HT use at least for a while. I do anticipate them being a giant leap over the speakers Jed on here modeled for me years ago using seas paper drivers that were in my car for a year lol.

Not much of an update but it looks like we are in business for the saw. No date set but I got this text yesterday:



In anticipation, we cut out the parts for the jig this eve.

[JonMarsh]

Mmmm, saw blades... deep cuts. Maybe we should make a video about building these speakers, call it "Deep Cut"? Geez, I can't believe I even wrote that, but then it's 7 AM after a long week, I've got a drive back from Cupertino this AM and putting up some hanging garage storage racks at GF's today...

Other than sheer output level, compared with the Isiris, these should be really fun speakers with a lot of types of program material... I'm quite jazzed, especially as I'll likely be using them as the monitor speakers in our music playing/recording room. So, the term, comparison to live mic feeds will be fairly appropriate, though I expect to do a lot of DI work (direct injection- my instrument preamps have DAW outputs).


in totally unrelated news, I got my second HID ballast for NSX update this week, and a new set of HID mounting hardware and patch cables for the 2002 Type R conversion... slow work takes time, this was conversion was in progress starting in 2008 (a lot of the big body pieces bought then) and totally stalled in 2009 when the Ardent took over my life for a while... now it's time to get back to this soon.

[TEK]

in totally unrelated news, I got my second HID ballast for NSX update this week, and a new set of HID mounting hardware and patch cables for the 2002 Type R conversion...

What? I honestly did not understand any of that?
What does HID, NSX and "Type R" stand for?

[CraigJ]

At the risk of coming across as a stalker, I'm guessing new and improved lights for this;

[JonMarsh]

At the risk of coming across as a stalker, I'm guessing new and improved lights for this;

Give Craig a cigar!

Actually, I have a 96 NSX. That NSX has a 2002 style front end, which may or may not be original- he has an after market lip spoiler on the bumper. This one also has after market side rocker panels, ands pretty nice wheels, though not my style preference.

This was mine when I first got it...





Pretty bone stock for a 96, other than a RSR exhaust. Since then I've put some forged Volk wheels on, but a few years ago bought a set of Prodrive GC07C in British black that I really like, but haven't had time to put on the car. I prefer high performance but an understated look.




Now I have most of the parts and pieces to do the front and rear conversion to a 2002 type, but NSX-R type. This includes the special ducted front hood (extra downforce), the front aero battery tray (improved downforce), the NSX-R rear spoiler (improved down force), and the NSX-R rear valence (by now, you guessed it, improved downforce). Though I have a stock 2002 front bumper cover, I'm considering going with a Downforce version of it, as it's better made and has a couple of good options.

The front will look roughly like this:



Note the difference with the ducted hood, compared to the car Craig posted, which is just a "standard" 2002+ front end.

NSX-R was only released in Japan, and only in white- this shows the rear with the modified carbon fiber spoiler, and slightly different rear valence than a standard 2002. Of course, I have all those bits now, and the 2002+ tail lamps, too. And Honda emblems.



I've also got some Comptech headers (CARB legal) to put on, and a Pride V2 NSX exhaust just arrived this last week.



Dyno plots show the Pride exhaust good for about 20 HP, and what's more fun, that wicked complicated plumbing goes a long way towards making a DOHC six sound like a 12... :B

I'm been keeping my inner gear head reined in for a long time, but this year I think I need to let him lose. Sorry for the thread jack. well, not really, but I'm supposed to be! :W


Sure, it's not a flying fusion powered Delorean, but I do what I can! :W

[TEK]

Hmm - that's no speaker ;-)

But a nice car tough. Seems like you are having some nice plans for it!

[benthe8track]

Wow I'm jealous! I've been a Honda guy forever having all manner of turbo/built NA/frankenstien civics and such. The NSX was always the holy grail for me. I've been looking at M3s for the past year, mostly because the NSX still won't drop in price unless you can deal with a RHD. I think the next step for you is the comptech supercharger

[JonMarsh]

Wow I'm jealous! I've been a Honda guy forever having all manner of turbo/built NA/frankenstien civics and such. The NSX was always the holy grail for me. I've been looking at M3s for the past year, mostly because the NSX still won't drop in price unless you can deal with a RHD. I think the next step for you is the comptech supercharger

Great minds think alike, once the other stuff is done!

[JonMarsh]

Now playing...

The Poor Clares

Resurrected Lover

Irish folk music, female vocals, traditional instruments, a natural sounding delight.

Unfortunately hard to find, too. Well with the effort if you like this type of music.

[JonMarsh]

And more...



This may be the better album in some regards- some of the harmonies are quite sublime...