Alex's Statements build

[Aday2Long]

So I've just finished building Curt's TriTrix speakers and I was so amazed I decided I needed something more, bigger! Decided to go for the big papatwika speakers, the Statements.

Now I've been reading around and ordered the "new guard" unshielded RS225s for the build and according to Curt's post, the total volume of the enclosure can be dropped down to 80L. Has anyone built the Statements since? I'm sure I could find a way to calculate it, but has someone already checked what the new height of the speaker would be?

Also looking at putting the port at the rear instead of the bottom. Does that mean I have to change the length or the port positioning does not matter as long as the dimensions remain the same.

Thanks for any help guys, I really enjoy listening to amazing speakers, I'm good at building stuff and following plans but my real knowledge is computers, not calculating things for speakers :roll:

[Ed H]

I wish I was building Statements... :W

There are a few volume calculators on line.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/enclosure-volume-calculator/

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...ad.php?t=61248

http://grapevine.abe.msstate.edu/~fto/tools/vol/

The port size will change as the box volume changes. It does not change with placement (rear / bottom). You can download WinISD to determine the correct port size, or simply ask someone here after you've determined the final box volume (80L, I assume). You will need the T/S parameters of the drivers.

[Aday2Long]

Thanks Ed, so with the calculator I inserted the values of the inside of the box, width x height x length and it gave me 136L (didn't bother calculating drivers and braces volume) and reduced the height until it took out 20L since according to Curt, the calculated volume is 100L and can be reduced by 20% with the new unshielded drivers. The new height I got was 48" for the inside of the box. Does that make sense? The overall height would be 49.5" since the MDF is 3/4 thick.

If that is correct, how much longer/shorter would the port need to be?

[Aday2Long]

Now that I'm re-reading and it says to tune them 3Hz higher, is this achieved with the cross-over? Would I need a different piece than in the original BOM?

Sorry for the noob questions!

[baniels]

That would drop the height by 7 inches, correct? Do the mid tunnels prevent the option of making the cabinet shallower?

I know some thought went into the original height of the tweeter. I'd be wary about changing that too much.

[Aday2Long]

From what I understand it's better to leave width and depth the same and simply play with the height. The drivers can be moved up or down as long as the ratio in-between them stays the same. Tweeter is supposed to be at ear height, so I might need some small stands.

What I am planning is to leave them around 60" tall to have the tweeter at the proper height, but will simply make a false bottom in the box at the required place to have a volume of 80L, and install binding posts, cross over and what not under the false bottom.

[Bear]

Now that I'm re-reading and it says to tune them 3Hz higher, is this achieved with the cross-over? Would I need a different piece than in the original BOM?

Sorry for the noob questions!

You will want to read up on how to tune a ported enclosure. You also shouldn't start planning on making changes to the design until you do. A down-firing port could be part of a special tuning called a "transmission line" or tapered line. To change the tuning frequency, you would change the length of the port, no electrical components required. If you have a copy of Excel handy, you can find a spreadsheet called "Unibox" which will help a lot with the tuning. Otherwise, there are other software products out there, e.g., Bass Box.

Finally, unless you have an irregular shape, volume is simply the internal volume (L*W*H) of your cabinet, less bracing and other "hard" components (e.g., crossover boards). There is a fair bit of play in how drivers interact with the cabinet, so don't get too hung up on the minutiae unless you are wanting to be precise.

Volume is often talked about in terms of metric measures. One liter is 1000 cubic centimeters, or a cube 10cm by 10cm by 10cm. One inch is 2.54cm.

Hope this helps.

[Aday2Long]

Thanks Bear.

I'm guessing all of this tuning is mainly for the woofers and making the sealed version would remove all those problems?

I will eventually build a sub.

[Jim Holtz]

If you're going to keep them the same height, why change any of the dimensions. The new RS225's will work perfectly at the current speced volume with a minor port length change. Curt is the port/crossover guru.

20 liters just isn't worth all the extra work required to redesign the cabinet when it isn't necessary.

My $.02 worth...

Jim

[Aday2Long]

Thanks Jim, you are absolutely right, why re-invent the wheel?

So I've been in contact with Curt and I must say he is an awesome guy, quick answers and very helpful. Turns out that with his testing, and what I plan to do, the unshielded version will be an almost perfect match. Awesome news!

Here is my plan for my speakers, please excuse my lack of computer drawing skills ...


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My local Home Depot does not have a big enough sheet of 1/2" MDF ... if I double up the baffle with only 3/4 ... does it means I have to adjust the overall depth by 1/4?

And since you guys want pictures, I mean a build thread with still no pictures wth!??! 8O Enjoy!


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[Bear]

My local Home Depot does not have a big enough sheet of 1/2" MDF ... if I double up the baffle with only 3/4 ... does it means I have to adjust the overall depth by 1/4?

Given that you can go with a smaller volume, try going with three sheets of 3/4. When in doubt, a thicker, stiffer baffle is probably better.

That being said, you adjust the internal volume by adding or reducing the actual dimensions of the MDF. In other words, 0.75" x 1in x 1in is 0.75 cubic inches, or 0.75 / 1728th (12 * 12 * 12) of a cubic foot. I'm not trying to be pedantic here, but just realize it is basic geometry and nothing too special (no s-plane integrals or anything!). :T

[Jim Holtz]

if I double up the baffle with only 3/4 ... does it means I have to adjust the overall depth by 1/4?

Yes... The reason I used 3/4" + 1/2" rather than 2x 3/4" was because of the mids. They will need extra care to scallop out the inside of the front baffle to prevent "tunneling" with a 1 1/2" thick front baffle.

Jim

[Aday2Long]

I can get a piece of 2'x4' 1/2 MDF, if I purchase 3, cut them and glue them to the baffles, would it impact performance?

[Jim Holtz]

I can get a piece of 2'x4' 1/2 MDF, if I purchase 3, cut them and glue them to the baffles, would it impact performance?

It won't hurt a thing. Put them on the inside to hide the seams.

Jim

[Aday2Long]

Alright, so the design is decided and we've finally had a sunny day here so I was able to purchase my MDF from Home Depot. As always it was a good excuse to purchase more clamps.

Yes honey, that will only make 2 speakers! 8O


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And our postal service has been on strike for the last 2 weeks and they finally went back to work Monday so a nice surprise was waiting for me when I got home! :T


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I will start cutting tomorrow since it's Canada Day and I'm off work! Wee.

[Aday2Long]

So this morning I decided to attack the XO. Took a lot more time than I thought but I wanted to get it right.







And tested each speaker to make sure everything worked. Only managed to complete 1 XO, the forecast was rain for tomorrow so I wanted to get the cutting out of the way.

A $25 well invested in a Freud blade. One of those things that you hesitate to buy and once you use it, you're like OMGosh why didn't I do this waaay before?!?! It cuts really well.



You do what you can when your table saw is the size of your hand...



Now I had a problem ... my poor man's fence (metal) was too short ... so I came up with a poorest man's fence (MDF). Made sure it was straight and square and worked surprisingly well. Although all the time spent to make sure it was straight ... next time I'll drive to Home Depot and buy a longer fence.



And the obligatory shot of the pile of cut wood (sides, fronts and backs). Pieces for the tunnels were also cut.



Aiming to finish cutting tomorrow (I really hate cutting when I don't have the proper tools), and glue the 1/2 to 3/4 baffle, and glue the tunnels.

[Aday2Long]

Both my XOs are done but I noticed I did something a little different on both and I'm not sure anymore which one is right. I think the first one is correct and the corrections I did on the second is supposed to be correct. Input greatly appreciated!

Home



Forum

[Aday2Long]

Been busy gluing things together the last few day...wish I had more clamps!! Would go faster for sure.









The second tower is almost complete, going to try and route the back port so I can glue it today or tomorrow. Ordered some new router bits from Lee Valley, waiting for them to come in also. The 3/4 round over is an expensive one!!

The 4" port. What do you guys use to make it hold together ... hot glue?

[Jim Holtz]

Hmmm.... 4" port? The original Statements design called for a 3". Has Curt advocated a 4" with the new RS225's?

Jim

[Aday2Long]

Sorry, 4" long, 3" diameter. It's the port on Curt's website from PE.

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[Hank]

Hot glue should work. PVC cement will do the job. I like your jumping into this and building without hesitation. You've definitely been bitten. What finish are you planning on?

[Aday2Long]

I want something that holds without being permanent so I guess hot glue it will be (you know just in case).

I was planning on painting the back black and veneering the rest ... but these require a LOT of veneer so I might paint the front baffle also.

Yes, when I start something I don't like to let it linger. Good thing is I work evenings so I have time early in the day to work on these. Gluing is the quick part, working on the front baffle will take a little more time.

[john trials]

Friction holds them together just fine if you don't want something permanent. The ports in my Statements are just pressed together with no adhesive.

[Aday2Long]

Friction holds them together just fine if you don't want something permanent. The ports in my Statements are just pressed together with no adhesive.

Good point, maybe I'll just stick a piece of Duct Tape on them and call it a day.

A little more progress.





My new router bits should be in tomorrow or Friday, hopefully I can make a big push this weekend! :T

[Aday2Long]

This morning I woke up and decided to attack what I find to be the hardest part of speaker builds ... making my router circle jig. Had fun calculating the radius of multiple circles, trial and error on many many scrap pieces and after way too much time, finally had "perfect circles" I was satisfied with.



Port and connector hole are cut, looking good.





In the process of cutting the first baffle ... takes a little longer than my TriTrix...



All done! Should start the other one tomorrow. What do you guys use to cut away part of the tweeter hole to make room for it's small heatsinks? Jigsaw?





Now for the pink insulation, do I put some everywhere? Behind the top woofer, behind the bottom woofer and in the chamber under that?

Thanks!

[Silver1omo]

A rasp should do the trick. Nice build, keep it up!!

[KnightsOfNi]

For the tweeter heat sink, I used a dremel with a sanding drum on it.
Oh the smell of burning MDF :W
Regards
Knights

[BigJim_inFLA]

For the tweeter heat sink, I used a dremel with a sanding drum on it.
Oh the smell of burning MDF :W
Regards
Knights

+1. I did the same. Helps to keep the shop vac handy, very dusty. Looking good so far. How are you planning on finishing them?

[john trials]

Pink fiberglass...as Jim H. says: cover everything the woofer 'sees'. Keep it 2" back from the baffle.



I used a jig saw for the tweeter holes. Just use whatever tool you own/borrow that is convenient. It'll never be seen, so it doesn't need to be pretty.

Also, you should cut a clearance relief (for the tweeters) in each mid tunnel. The tweeter is tall enough where it will hit the tunnels. In the fiberglass photo, you can see how the cut outs make room for the tweeter.




Also, your port looks really short. It should be a 4" long tube, then add the flares. https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpo...&postcount=944

[Aday2Long]

Perfect thanks john! Yeah a quick email to Curt got me the same answer about the port. Now fixed.

For the pink fiberglass, the thinnest I could find was 3 1/2", should I trim it to 2" or will it be fine?

I sanded the mid tunnels with my dremel for it to fit.



Both baffles have their driver holes cut. Jim was right, they do kill the desire to build anything else. The Overnight Sensations I want to build next should be a breeeeze!



Working on finalizing the baffles.





Oooooh!



Enough room to breath or a little more is required?

[john trials]

3.5" is pretty thick for material. I don't know if they have it in Canada, but the fiberglass I used was 2" thick, unfaced. It was at Home Depot and was in small rolls, to be used for pipe insulation (16" wide, I think...and about 10 feet long each roll...I used about 6 or 7 packages of it).

Your build is looking good. They are a lot of work, but well worth it!

[Aday2Long]

3.5" is pretty thick for material. I don't know if they have it in Canada, but the fiberglass I used was 2" thick, unfaced. It was at Home Depot and was in small rolls, to be used for pipe insulation (16" wide, I think...and about 10 feet long each roll...I used about 6 or 7 packages of it).

Your build is looking good. They are a lot of work, but well worth it!

Yeah Home Depot has those but it's about ... 15$ per roll, while the big bag I got that will do for both speakers was 32$. I think I'll just thin it myself ... should be fun.

[DeathMonk]

Thats what I did. It's easy to pull off layers of the stuff.

[Aday2Long]

Mono listening session Wednesday? I think sooooooo! I don't think 'excited' describes how I feel.

[Aday2Long]

A little listening session was in order Wednesday, they sounded really good.



Second cabinet went on the table to get finished up.



Gluing the front baffle.



Decided to install some little spikes to help level out the speaker (yeah I glued it on a little crooked) ...



Almost all ready.



Cabinets ready to receive the drivers.



Weather strip installed on TBs.



I would like to thank Jim, Curt, Wayne and anyone else involved in this, these speakers are and sound amazing. I am blown away. And to think they can only sound better once broken in.



I might update this thread in a year ... when I decide to take them apart to finish them!

[Jim Holtz]

I'm glad you like them! :T

Jim

[Aday2Long]

I will back up who ever it is that said it, do not listen to them until they are completely done.

These are not going back in the garage for a finish for a long time!!!

[john trials]

Nice job on your speakers.

I used my Statements for about a month or two, then took them apart and finished them. It was tough to go back to my old speakers while finishing the Statements.

To protect the MDF from assorted mishaps prior to finishing, you could coat the enclosures with some sealer. I have my Statement Monitors and CC covered in 3 coats of wood glue/water (mixed 1:1). It leaves them with a hard, waterproof shell. It's a simple process that takes very little time.

You are brave, though...are your crossovers permanently sealed in that lower chamber?

[Aday2Long]

Nice job on your speakers.

I used my Statements for about a month or two, then took them apart and finished them. It was tough to go back to my old speakers while finishing the Statements.

To protect the MDF from assorted mishaps prior to finishing, you could coat the enclosures with some sealer. I have my Statement Monitors and CC covered in 3 coats of wood glue/water (mixed 1:1). It leaves them with a hard, waterproof shell. It's a simple process that takes very little time.

You are brave, though...are your crossovers permanently sealed in that lower chamber?

Good idea, I was planning on veneering them with the iron on method, I guess a 1:1 water:glue mixture is a good idea.

Right now yes they are permanently sealed, but making a hole to access them would not ruin the speakers what so ever and would be easy to do with a router and a flush trim bit. After building that enclosure I didn't plan on making a different enclosure for them! :W

[Owen Bartley]

Really nicely done. I love when people take time for details inside the cabinet even though they'll never be seen. All those perfect holes for your T-nuts and the nice smooth driver cutouts and chamfers point to love (or OCD).

[Curt C]

Excellent work Mr. TooLong...

…and a tribute to your woodworking abilities, as well as a demonstration to all that you don't need a shop full of high end tools to build a well turned out product.

(My cabinet construction, on the other hand, was once featured on the cover of Abysmal Woodworking Monthly.)
-I believe that is why Wayne took pity on me and now builds the cabinets for our designs. (With the exception of the Statement series, which were all excellently crafted by Mr. Holtz.)

I only hope you find their sonic performance equal to the woodworking quality you poured into them.

C

[Jinjuku]

Didn't want to start another thread

Glad to see another pair of Statements getting built.

I just wanted to publicly thank Curt and Jim for a speaker that has me rediscovering all my music. Gentlemen you have outdone yourselves ;x(

P.S. Let me know when you get around to a DIY speaker that eclipses the Statements :B

[Curt C]

P.S. Let me know when you get around to a DIY speaker that eclipses the Statements :B

Glad you are enjoying your Statements!

an Uber-Statement? Let see...
how about...

RAAL ribbon
Accuton mids
Revelator woofers

These will cost just a wee bit more than the existing driver complement, tho...
Who will be first to send me a complete driver complement for the test articles? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

C

[JimAckley]

Might as well go with ClarityCap MR caps and Duelund cast resistors for the HF and Mid circuits at that point :P

And don't start tempting us with Uber Statements! But, just for kicks, if someone were to send you drivers, which ones would it be? And can we incorporate a TC Sounds LMS 5100 or something comparable? I mean, if we're going for Uber, you gotta go all out

Onto more important things. I have a quick question for you Curt: Do any adjustments need to be made to the crossovers to account for the lower Sd and lower sensitivity of the unshielded Daytons? I'm getting ready to take a swing at building Non-Uber-Statements and want to make sure I get it right on the first try.