My Natalie P Journey Begins

[PewterTA]

Definitely a piano black gloss I think would look unreal with them. Though I wouldn't leave out a satin or even a flat black option. But with the colors of the drivers and that fact that you aren't covering them with a grill... stands would look good in black! :T

This is definitely my favorite design for a stand...looks really good.

[wkhanna]

Thanks for all the compliments and suggestions!
I was intrigued with the idea of the day-glow green, and initially was considering a bright yellow, actually.

A few weeks ago I shot them with a metallic copper after a few coats of sanding sealer, some light sanding, a few coats of primmer and some more light sanding. The color seems to bring out and compliment the shade of deep red and blends well with the rest of the room without drawing your attention away from the speakers themselves. All IMHO, of course.

The pics don’t convey the true contrast and hue, but FWIW.......

Next I need glue the baffles on! The fit is so tight, I use a leather mallet to get them on and off. But there is some slight leakage during heavy bass at higher SPL, I could feel it on my cheek when I was adjusting the toe while the music was playing. That will most likely improve the SQ and tighten the bass up a bit more, but as it is I am still stunned every time the twins are singing.

The ‘sock shot’ will be upcoming after the baffles are glued and speakers sealed. BTW, PewterTA, I may need your help for the ‘photo shoot’, and I know my ‘girls’ trust you already!

[cjd]

I think the copper is a good match. Sharp. And unique. Nice work.

[Finleyville]

They look very nice! We will have to get together again to "audition" them. :B Since I finally finished mine I'll have to bring those over too!

[wkhanna]

You got yours Done! That is fantastic! You have to tell us how they sound!
And we need pics.

Of course I know they sound fantastic !
You would not have it any other way!

Let’s see if we can get PewterTA to join us for a ‘Session’, and we need to schedule a moto ride too! Maybe we could meet at 'Quaker Stake and Lube' on a Thursday 'bike' night in Cranberry?!?!?

[Hdale85]

Holy crap you guys live in pittsburgh! Can I come by and listen? :B

[wkhanna]

Well of course you can, Dougie!
I will keep you posted on our plans.
The more, the merrier!

Edit: Oh! nice job on the flip, too!

[Hdale85]

Were you the one I was talking to a while back trying to build a sub? I was talking to someone.....can't remember who though.

[wkhanna]

Were you the one I was talking to a while back trying to build a sub?

Ah, yep. That would be me.
BTW, jeet yet?

[Hdale85]

....what exactly does jeet yet mean? :B.... I haven't been in pittsburgh too long. Sounds like did ya eat yet..... maybe thats it?

[Brian Bunge]

....what exactly does jeet yet mean? :B.... I haven't been in pittsburgh too long. Sounds like did ya eat yet..... maybe thats it?

Yes, it means did you eat yet. That's usually followed by "Yont to?" I may have misspelled that though.

[Hdale85]

Well in the mall over here they have signs in the food court that says "Jeet Jet" and could never figure it out till just now...:B

[wkhanna]

Yuns figured it out.
So now, let's red up the house and then head down the Sowside, grab a Permani's samitch and few Rocks.

[Hdale85]

Still no word on this get together? Just curious

[wkhanna]

Don'y worry Dougie!
Probably around the middle of June.
I will keep you posted.

[wkhanna]

Dougie!!!
I have a PM for you.......But your mail box is Full!

[Hdale85]

Its empty now sorry about that.

[johngalt47]

What happened with this?

[PewterTA]

Bill has been happy with them for the last few years. They are pretty amazing speakers. I enjoy listening to them anytime I'm over there. I'm sure Bill will respond with his thoughts on everything on the build and performance.

[wkhanna]

These are probably the smartest thing I ever did concerning my audio trek of many, many years.
Been using these for close to six years.
Yes, there are better, but I get a warm, gratifying feeling every time I sit down & listen to them.
I have heard a lot speakers since I built these. Many in my own system.
They never cease to impress me or anyone else who has ever heard them.

[Finleyville]

Holy necro thread Batman!

I see that this last photo is the official one since we have a clear foot shot. Nicely done.


And those speakers do sound very nice. Those pictures do not do those justice.

[wkhanna]

Kind words.

Thank you, Michael!

[PewterTA]

Definitely agree, you can't tell how good they sound from the photos............................................ ...... LOL.

Build quality on these are amazing... good enough that if we were to build anything else Jon Marsh made.... I'd have full trust in Bill being able to make them exactly as needed... of course I'd also help Bill build them, but I'm not too this level...

The last "official" picture is older isn't it... It's missing a sub!

[fbov]

...The last "official" picture is older isn't it... It's missing a sub!

Judging by the TT, and associated increase in vinyl selections, I'd say the toes are newer... like after he'd realized the sub wasn't doing much! NatP towers are like that...

Have fun,
Frank

[JonMarsh]

These are probably the smartest thing I ever did concerning my audio trek of many, many years.
Been using these for close to six years.
Yes, there are better, but I get a warm, gratifying feeling every time I sit down & listen to them.
I have heard a lot speakers since I built these. Many in my own system.
They never cease to impress me or anyone else who has ever heard them.

Very nice looking build! :T

[wkhanna]

Great praise from the maestro, indeed.

And what coincidence as I was ready to PM you for specs regarding implementing the ScanSpeak Revelator D2904/7100-03 in this very cabinet!

I am itching for an upgrade, & this would fit both my time allotment & budget for the time being until there is a finalized design on the three-way.

[wkhanna]

With great appreciation to The Maestro Jon for sacrificing his rare personal time, I now have the specs for upgrading my 'Twins' utilizing the ScanSpeak Revelator D2904/7100-03 tweeters.

I will be starting a new build thread shortly.
This is a long-term project with estimated completion to be before the year end due to time & budget constraints.
Nonetheless, public proclamation will apply pressure to see I meet my goal.

The good news is that crossover modifications are minimal.
The bad news is, I plan on using the best components available, thus early estimates put this 'Continued Journey' in the $1k range.

The best news is that TMJ (The Maestro Jon) has not only given me a great starting point with my standard Nat P's which I have loved for seven years, but with his guidance a grand new level of performance is soon to be realized.

So it is that My Natalie P Journey Continues.

[sdl2112]

With great appreciation to The Maestro Jon for sacrificing his rare personal time, I now have the specs for upgrading my 'Twins' utilizing the ScanSpeak Revelator D2904/7100-03 tweeters.

I will be starting a new build thread shortly.
This is a long-term project with estimated completion to be before the year end due to time & budget constraints.
Nonetheless, public proclamation will apply pressure to see I meet my goal.

The good news is that crossover modifications are minimal.
The bad news is, I plan on using the best components available, thus early estimates put this 'Continued Journey' in the $1k range.

The best news is that TMJ (The Maestro Jon) has not only given me a great starting point with my standard Nat P's which I have loved for seven years, but with his guidance a grand new level of performance is soon to be realized.

So it is that My Natalie P Journey Continues.

I'm looking forward to your new thread. Your cabinets are beautiful...I may experiment with tinting on my bamboo baffles.

[JonMarsh]

Got my Speaker and music macbook out, should have the crossover sim update done soon. Another thing I'd recommend is upgrading the resistors, considering the other thing thou plan, Bill- the Mundorf non-inductive from Madisound aren't really all that expensive, and they're now my favorite after trying them out with the Isiris.

[wkhanna]

....Your cabinets are beautiful...I may experiment with tinting on my bamboo baffles.

Firstly, many thanks for the complement - But......

well.........before you do........

I initially designed my cabinets with a 15 degree slope on the front baffle - purely for aesthetic function.
BAD idea.
Oh, they sounded good, V good.
& everyone who heard them felt the same.
In hindsight, I remember a few friends with 'good' ears saying, "they sound good even when I am standing".

It was months after I had finished the build when late one night when Dan (PewterTA) & I were 'indulging' during one of our sessions........
I kept saying that after some subsequent equipment upgrades there seemed to still be some lack of detail in the mids.
In my altered state the epiphany occurred........
I took some aluminum risers & placed them under the rear feet of the stands.

As much as I posses no tolerance for one said chief of N.O. origin......the result was not short of BAMMM!!!!!!!

The angled baffle was severely affecting the time alignment of the top & bottom drivers.
With the front baffle now perpendicular to the floor everything came into focus, as it were.
The result was not minor.
The perceived value of my build was doubled.

IOW, I do NOT recommend you angle the front baffle unless you are willing to give up the gorgeous sound of which this design is capable of.:W

[sdl2112]

Sorry I wasn't more clear...I was referring to the dying/tint of your cabinets, I have always liked the red wine color...they look great!

[wkhanna]

Sorry I wasn't more clear...I was referring to the dying/tint of your cabinets, I have always liked the red wine color...they look great!

Oh no, the misunderstanding is all mine relative to my dyslexia.

Tinting! Not Titling!

I used Trans Tint dye from Woodcraft.
I mixed it with denatured alcohol using a couple applications to get the hue I wanted.
The alcohol seems to raise the grain a bit less & I felt as though I was getting a deeper, richer color with it.

I have used the same technic on a few other projects & have always been pleased with the results.

And thank you again for the kind words!

[wkhanna]

Got my Speaker and music macbook out, should have the crossover sim update done soon. Another thing I'd recommend is upgrading the resistors, considering the other thing thou plan, Bill- the Mundorf non-inductive from Madisound aren't really all that expensive, and they're now my favorite after trying them out with the Isiris.

Vital information, indeed!
The BOM list is nearing completion.
Of the few things left to decide is where to source the wire & terminals (maybe Cardus?).
The new thread will launch shortly.

[PewterTA]

Great... this means I'm going to have to build a set.... though I think I might leave the cabinet building to PE..... hee hee.

Just have to order double of everything!

[Finleyville]

Great... this means I'm going to have to build a set.... though I think I might leave the cabinet building to PE..... hee hee.

Just have to order double of everything!

I may be able to be bribed to build your cabs if you wanted something a little different.

[johngalt47]

Jon, are you talking about the MOX 10 watt resistors or the more expensive M-Resist ones?

Got my Speaker and music macbook out, should have the crossover sim update done soon. Another thing I'd recommend is upgrading the resistors, considering the other thing thou plan, Bill- the Mundorf non-inductive from Madisound aren't really all that expensive, and they're now my favorite after trying them out with the Isiris.

[wkhanna]

I will let Jon correct me if I am wrong, but I as I understand the M-Resist are the non-inductive resistors he is recommending.

From the Madisound website:

High quality resistors are hard to find. High power resistors are used in crossover networks to adjust the levels of individual speaker units and they are also used in oscillator circuits and equalisers. Their basic job is to convert surplus or unwanted electrical power into heat. One of the most important specifications of a resistor is thus its power handling capacity, which is expressed in watts.

The Mundorf M-Resist Supreme series is specifically designed for high-end loudspeaker and amplifiers applications. With their superior audio quality these 'acoustically no longer perceivable' resistors now match the premium quality standard which distinguishes Mundorf capacitors and conductors!

Specifications:
•Non-magnetic construction
•Virtually inductance-free
•Solid core oxygen-free copper with gold

[JonMarsh]

Yeah, it's the M-Resit ones...

This is one of the early crossover test builds, combining the midrange and tweeter on one board; you can see them littered all over the place.





I got interested in trying them because I found out that a respected commercial line uses them in all models, Magico. I've heard the Q1 and Q5, and allowing for the source components used, they were excellent. (should be at those prices!) The M-Resist are pretty highly endorsed by a variety of people, but compared with stuff like the Duelund resistors, don't cost all that much. So I tried them out in my first mono Isiris build, compared them with Mills, which are good, but IMO not as transparent. And if you're spending stupid amounts of money on the tweeters, shortchanging the passive components doesn't make much sense. So yeah, that's the trouble with a project like the Isiris, the tweeter passive crossover winds up costing more than many medium-high end tweeters do! Which is more or less par for the course in my opinion- for a crossover for the RS28a, I usually spend as much or more money on the crossover parts as the tweeter.

You can certainly find less expensive designs that perform reasonably well for the money, and 2nd order crossovers have intrinsically lower cost, if you can use drivers and crossover points that work with them. But they also stress the components a bit more; looking at the 90-95 dB THD sweeps usually shows this. Exception, of course, being a waveguide system, where one high grade cap and inductor gets the job done... but then you've got to build the waveguide!

The new crossovers in construction for the Isiris will fit in the enclosures (making GF happy), and will require more boards (two for the mid, one for the tweeter, one for the woofer in each cabinet.)

[JonMarsh]

BTW, today (Sept 1) I'm updating the drive setup in my 17" Macbook pro, and will be back in business shortly for LspCAD and Fuzzmeasure, and will get to the NatP simulation level issue for the Scanspeak tweeter for you shortly. (well, I'll be crouching, instead of standing tall at 6'1"- so I'll be "shortly". :W )

Got a few other little sim issues for others hanging fire due to this- have a long list of to-dos for this weekend, including work.

[wkhanna]

Glad to hear you weekend work (work) assignment is gong better than expected & allowing you time for other endeavors.
It is so V kind of you to spend precious time helping others when I know you have so many other personal things to do like guitar re-stringing, a little practice time with all the video instructions you DL'd, speaker projects & I am sure time with the GF.

We are not in any real hurry for your xo help - I say we cuz Dan (PewterTA) is also building a similar Scanspeak version of the NatP in concert with the Scanspeak upgrade to my towers. He just took advantage of the LD sale at PE to order the 1 cf curved cabinets, the Dayton RS180's & a few other bits & pieces. It will be a while before we begin the actual xo build & we are gleefully resigned to your help only when convenient for you.

[JonMarsh]

Progress-

all put back together, actually configuring and shuffling data around in new partitions. talk about little itsy bitsy connectors!

[wkhanna]

Ha!

I will not say thing about the last time someone commented on the hemostats in my tool box!

But mine have a slightly different color on the tips from projects in the far, far past.


These days, I even keep a set of these on the stereo rack for cleaning the stylus on my turntable.

[PewterTA]

Cabinet and Drivers purchased. Can't wait to start building with my good friend Bill!!!! Well and can't wait to hear what the new tweeter sounds like once set and done since we are so familiar with how Bill's sounds.

[PewterTA]

Hee hee, I haven't met a laptop I couldn't take completely apart and put back together... normally with only 1 or 2 screws that were the extra ones they put in there!

[JonMarsh]

Hee hee, I haven't met a laptop I couldn't take completely apart and put back together... normally with only 1 or 2 screws that were the extra ones they put in there!

Yeah, I've always wondered why they put those extra screws in... but now, I understand how Apple makes good margins, there weren't any extra screws in this one!