Dual RL-p15 D2 driver DIY..

[steve nn]

Is it too early to ask how you think it compares to the pair of Ultras or perhaps a single Ultra? This is the DIY section, so you won't have to worry about being attacked

Stevie, Stevie, Stevie................That's funny, I actually just sent a mail off to br Ilkka. Tom and Ron have been very good to me over my course with their products, so I'm going to need a little time to figure out how to come across in a deserving respectful manner. It's a little early yet, but so far no regrets. How's that? I suppose I'll do a Thread over at AVS after the veneer and I've had time to graph it all. Don't forget I still have the little PCi in the den though and I'll always be pro SVS in what they can provide commercially for the $$. I sincerely wish they could move up to the 15" line of drivers though. I know they have been working on it for some time and very likely could at some point and time??? Dual 12"s admittedly serve them well.

[SteveCallas]

I hear you, and I didn't mean to stir anything up by it - no regrets sounds good to me :T

[ThomasW]

Good DIY vs retail is an apples vs oranges kind of comparison. SVS makes very good subs. And for those people that can't DIY, SVS products are good buy.

DIY always wins in a cost vs performace shootout IF the DIY sub is correctly designed and built.

Were Ryan to 'buy' his DIY subs at retail they'd cost a $2K each or more given normal markups

[---k---]

$2K/ea??? WOW!

Would you mind explaining that to all of our wives.

[Bent]

my wife wants me to sell my AS-15 based sub for 2500 bucks Canadian.
I'd take 1200 for it as is.

[ThomasW]

The 15" ACI Maestro starts at $2200 for a black box. It's $2500 for the fancy wood finish.

[SteveCallas]

But what about the magic Thomas?

[steve nn]

I hear you, and I didn't mean to stir anything up by it - no regrets sounds good to me :T

No problem Steve. Your one of the good guys IMO, me and you think allot alike..especially when the subject of EQ comes up. I would ask the same question myself.

The 15" ACI Maestro starts at $2200 for a black box. It's $2500 for the fancy wood finish.

Pardon me if I don't reply, but considering cost...just think what I could build for the same $$ as retail on these. ops:


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Hey ThomasW...If I get to yakking about doing another project before I finish the veneer job, will you smack me up along side the head? :lol:

[ThomasW]

but considering cost...just think what I could build for the same $$ as retail on these

Probably 1/2 or less of what you paid.

[---k---]

Hey Thomas...If I get to yakking about doing another project before I finish the veneer job, will you smack me up along side the head? :lol:

Ditto for me!

I still need to do the finish paint, get the EQ all tweaked out, and I need sometime to enjoy them! But, I've already been thinking about trying my hand at some very reasonable bookselves. Then yesterday, I got the new PE flyer. It had a "Garage Speaker" project in it. And it was an "ah ha" moment. That would be the perfect beginning project. Cheap and fills an actual need.

Someone smack me!

[steve nn]

Probably 1/2 or less of what you paid.

No doubt about it. Heck a guy could even build two (or more) enclosures for a single driver if he wanted to. With sealed subwoofers costing much more, the discrepancy only widens.

I still need to do the finish paint, get the EQ all tweaked out,

Looking forward to your progress Ryan. I failed to communicate when I mentioned EQ earlier in my reply to Steve C, that I was basically speaking in regards to adding EQ to a plate amp that already has EQ built into the design. I look forward to throwing my EQ at the EP2500 and seeing how it translates out. A couple dB should be quite beneficial.

And it was an "ah ha" moment.

UH OH! I can see what's coming up next. :conveyer:

[steve nn]

I decided to pull the Art out and do a little EQing and see if I could flatten things out a little. I could admittedly tweak it a little more, or attack it from a different direction, but the Art is rather wide and hard to work with when it comes to precision EQ. I have just enough $$ left over without doing the BASSIS to go with a better option that'll also allow me to adjust below 20 Hz. Anyway I'm pretty happy with the +-3.5 from 18 to 99Hz with a sealed unit..

[ThomasW]

There a very few EQ's that provide hinge points lower than 20Hz. The BFD (and it's variants) will boost below 20Hz only because one can make a really wide filter at 20Hz.

The Furman 1311 graphic EQ has a 10Hz filler but it's a fixed band. Rane makes a analog parametic EQ with 10Hz EQ. Unfortunately one needs test equipment to accurately set any analog parametric EQ.

[steve nn]

There a very few EQ's that provide hinge points lower than 20Hz.

No I didn't know that...Thanks!

Well I just figured out how much a roll of R-13 weighs.. I figure I have about 2 lbs in 3.65 cu ft. Now that I have some measurements, I better make sure the fill is optimal. It most likely isn't?

[steve nn]

Well I had my first lesson in fill today that I'm glad I visited. I first pulled the driver and added about 1/2 pound more and the output went down a dB or so. I then went back in and pulled what I added plus roughly a 1/2 pound more and the output increased 2 dB with only affecting 18Hz one dB. I might be mistaken, but I think this is it. Max output is as high, right next to, or surpasses any single sub I have measured while retaining (what I perceive to be) great SQ.

The amp gives out before the sub does actually...Lets see what's that called?..idiot proofed?

[---k---]

Steve, your amp gets very close to the limits of the driver. If it is rated conservitively, you're there! And, if you bridge it and use both channels for one driver, you'll definitely be able to burn it up. Be carefull, but have fun.

[steve nn]

Steve, your amp gets very close to the limits of the driver. If it is rated conservitively, you're there! And, if you bridge it and use both channels for one driver, you'll definitely be able to burn it up. Be carefull, but have fun.

No I'm right where I want to be. Sure I could do the bridge and get another dB or so, but 3 dB puts me in the frying pan. This is as close to the edge as I need to take it. My dB raceing days are over, but it's important to me that I be able to hit a certain number in a couple of test scenes I've used in the past.

[steve nn]

I forgot to post a pic of the finished project. I also tracked down the drop from 18Hz... it's room induced. I brought the meter up to 12" in front of the driver and its solid down to 15Hz. That's as far as I can measure with my current disk though. With correction at 15Hz, I can hit 99dB 11' away in my leaky 2880 and still have room left in the tank. :blah:

[Brian Bunge]

Steve,

Lookin' good my man! I'm impressed!

BTW, I finally picked up an M-Audio Mobile Pre and the Nady version of the Behringer mic so I can now do some decent in room measurements and maybe even start working on crossover designs!

[steve nn]

Lookin' good my man! I'm impressed!

Hey Thanks Brian, coming from you I take that as a real compliment. You know when I put the stain on I thought of you and how you must of felt when I had you put that black ink stain crap over the nice veneer sub you built for me. That must of really been hard to take....we both know it was. :bash:

BTW, I finally picked up an M-Audio Mobile Pre and the Nady version of the Behringer mic so I can now do some decent in room measurements and maybe even start working on crossover designs!

Cool! Hey tell me.. did you get shop setup yet?

[chasw98]

Steve:
I just got my RL-p15 installed tonight and am breaking it in. Yours looks great! :T

[steve nn]

Steve:I just got my RL-p15 installed tonight and am breaking it in. Yours looks great!

Excellent! If you get a chance tell me about it and Thank you.

EDIT>>>I see you have a Thread going. I'll find out there then. :T

[Brian Bunge]

Hey Thanks Brian, coming from you I take that as a real compliment. You know when I put the stain on I thought of you and how you must of felt when I had you put that black ink stain crap over the nice veneer sub you built for me. That must of really been hard to take....we both know it was. :bash:

Nah, I don't much like oak veneer anyway so black was fine. Although, the red stain I've used before on oak looked nice too.

Cool! Hey tell me.. did you get shop setup yet?

No, no shop yet. And my girlfriend is possibly getting a store manager's position down in Palm Bay, FL so I might be moving again real soon! I should only be 10 minutes from the beach, MAX!!! We hope to find a house with a decent sized garage so that I can setup a shop in there. Keep your fingers crossed!

[steve nn]

so that I can setup a shop in there. Keep your fingers crossed!

Will do and I hope it works out. You must be going through withdrawals by now though.

Quick question here. I decided to brace the back of the second unit and I'll most likely figure out a way to brace the back of the first unit even though SQ is good... my question is, should I take the time to hollow out the middle of the brace?

[ThomasW]

Notch it out to correspond with the opening in front of it.

[steve nn]

Ok. Thanks Thomas..

[mattburk]

Steve, looks great. I may have missed this, but what is the total weight of one sub, not counting the amp?

[steve nn]

Steve, looks great. I may have missed this, but what is the total weight of one sub, not counting the amp?

In trying to answer your question, I took the bathroom scales out to the garage and weighed a few panels. My first inclination was it must be coming in at around 150lbs from the feel of other subs I have moved around. After a few calculations, I would say all of 150lbs with including the driver.

[steve nn]

No 2 in the shoot!If I get a chance I'll plop the driver in tomorrow.

I also decided to play around with the fill today (again) on sub No 1. Being that this enclosure is about as big as Mike over at SoundSplinter will give his blessing on, I was curious about not adding any fill to very little. Something just wasn't sitting right, so I added yet again (not good) and then took the whole works out. Imo the bass had a better presentation with no fill at all. I suppose I'll try out a 1/2 to full pound next, but I doubt if I'll rest with more.

The brace worked out well Thomas. Thanks!

[SteveCallas]

Looks like you're getting some nice weather out there steve.

[steve nn]

Looks like you're getting some nice weather out there steve.

Nice, but cold Steve. Friday after work I had three coats on out in the garage. brrrr...Today was much warmer though.

[ThomasW]

Being that this enclosure is about as big as Mike over at SoundSplinter will give his blessing on,

We use RL-p 15"s in IB subs, so putting them in a larger box certainly works.

If you prefer the sonic characteristics of a higher Qtc that's of course a subjective decision.

I do recommend that you line the inside with a layer of damping if nothing else it will absorb the higher frequencies that aren't completely filtered out by the crossover.

[steve nn]

I do recommend that you line the inside with a layer of damping if nothing else it will absorb the higher frequencies that aren't completely filtered out by the crossover.

Very astute Thomas! Now that's exactly what was going on with some material and it was really bothering me. I even tried filtering above 80, but it still didn't quite register right. Maybe it's the way I put the fill in..I don't know?? I might have about a 1/4 pound in there now though. I wonder if I should try the dampening material that I originally bought for this project even though I feel as though some serious headway has been made. I find it very odd that the extra fill had this affect though. It should do just the opposite! I did switch over my sub run at the same time along with noticing the VCR had been on which I turned off. I don't recall it (higher FR) being there at first, so this could have been something that developed on account of a few other factors?? I even went into the pre settings and turned off all channels that weren't being used.

Since sub No 2 is finished minus some sanding and veneer, I'll try out the dampening material in it and compare it to the other with the 1/4 pound and then a pound or so. Maybe hike it up to 2 again to see if the higher FR problem was actually another whole separate issue indeed??

[ThomasW]

The amount of fill changes the Qtc of the system.

At this point it's purely a subjective decision. So use the amount that gives you the sound you like.

But I suggest making some frequency response plots to see what's actually going on in the room. You maybe trying to fix a room induced problem by changing the amount of damping.

[steve nn]

But I suggest making some frequency response plots to see what's actually going on in the room. You maybe trying to fix a room induced problem by changing the amount of damping.

Gosh I must have done thirty or so in the last few weeks and all looks fine. I did find by moving the love seat over a ft or so helped with the 17hz dip along with improving SQ. Remember that bass trap conversation:W :E ? No I'm starting to wonder if my kids were the culprit here?? I've had plenty of good bass in the past go bad I assure you. I made about five changes at the same time, so which one alleviated the situation is beyond me? I will be working backwards to a degree, so if it was the fill.. it will show itself again as I increase the amount.

[ThomasW]

Remember that bass trap conversation ?

Nope there are just too many threads going on for me to remember more than the last couple days worth of posts........

[steve nn]

Now I need to figure out which one to keep??



It appears I'm getting the full 6dB bump in headroom across the entire FR range, which is better than the side-by-side placement option...these are to wide for that anyway. That is one big block of sub! It reminds me of a couple Velodynes I had stacked years ago. I really need to think of something nice for my poor wife though. :frypan:

[---k---]

Now I need to figure out which one to keep??

HUH??? I must have missed something. You are thinking about getting rid of one?

[steve nn]

HUH??? I must have missed something. You are thinking about getting rid of one?

That was what you call "very dry" humor Ryan.

[Bent]

I think he was trying to say either the subs, or his wife... :ROFL

[---k---]

I think he was trying to say either the subs, or his wife... :ROFL

Oooh, that would be a tough decision.

[steve nn]

I think he was trying to say either the subs, or his wife... :ROFL

chuckle...maybe I'll share a story or two latter, but today has been much to long.:Z I just found out the brown van is due to be pulling up with the BASSIS though.

Oooh, that would be a tough decision.

Only for us bass/subwoofer addicts.

[---k---]

Steve,

You going to share with us your thoughts on adding a the LT? How's it sound? How much more amp are you using. Should I be running out and buying one?

[steve nn]

You going to share with us your thoughts on adding a the LT?

Hey Ryan,

I would be glad to except I came upon your post at bedtime. I'll be sure to bounce back after work tomorrow and fill you in. I will say (for now) it's all been good and I'm very glad I purchased it.

[steve nn]

How's it sound?

It sounds great! No complaints what so ever. When I view a movie I spend as much time looking for what I think could be better along with what I like. The dual RL-p setup has proven to be quite the bass producer. With adding the BASSIS to the mix, it has given me the low FR SPL in the sealed design that I set out to achieve. It has afforded me the ability to shape my sound how ever I please along with Q adjustment.. very nice for me to have. I've pretty much rested on .6 but I do pull it back to .5 at times with material that has allot of the higher variety bass. It's a fairly revealing rig... If the subject material is done poorly, it'll show it for what it is. I have been spending time going over all the reg bass heavy movies that I have and am familiar with and I can honestly say I have never had better.

How much more amp are you using.

I calibrate with my amp at full. The pre is set at -3 to 0 in a range of -12 to +12 depending what curve I'm using. With incorporating the BASSIS, it does definitely chew up headroom. Not so much the amp but the drivers themselves. If I went to gung-ho, I would have to stay below -20. As it is, I can go as loud as I can handle, -6 or 7 on 1/2 bit material. I'm flat from the cross (80hz) down to 15hz with my reg curve. It reaches farther of course but my disk only goes to 15hz...that's all I really care about anyway. I'm sure as time goes on I'll learn more about tweaking it, but I'm so happy with the FBQ incorporated with the BASSIS that I'm just going to relax awhile and take care of other business that seems to pile up when I get as focused as I've been for the last few months.

Should I be running out and buying one?

No not necessarily. Your hinge point on the BFD is 20hz, so if you want the best you can achieve along with being able to adjust the Q, then I would say yes go for it. I actually have a 1dB cut at 20hz with the FBQ. One thing that's so nice about a system set up like this is a guy can view movies at a lower listening level and get the feeling as if he is 5dB louder on the MV. Totally linier is how I would describe it in short.

Since your subs are parted, what kind of boost are you getting? Maybe 4-5dB? What ever you gain, do you show that gain from 20 to 80hz?