Small Sealed Sub: need driver recommendation

[dlneubec]

Hi all,

My Mentor omnidirectional project is nearing completion, however, I pilfered the sub drivers for these from my NaO Mini's and will need to move them back eventually. I'm looking for a replacement sub driver for the Mentor's with these qualifications/constraints:

-Approx. 35L net sealed (after driver, bracing, etc. all removed)
-Downfiring orientation, one driver each speaker for stereo subs
-12" maximum driver size (about 11.25" max cutout, 12.75" max outside dia.)
-good extension for F3 in the low 40's or better
-Controlled by active analog crossover, Qtc=.5 to 20hz with design by John K. for my NaO Mini's, crossing to MTM's on at 100hz (might have to be redesigned).
-High sound quality first, high DB second, used for both music and HT
-driven for now with 300w each MCM Plate amps (eventually will probably be a single pro amp for both, ie. EP1500 or 2500)
-15'x18'x9' room
-<$200 each cost and that is pushing it a bit.

Here is what I've looked at so far, modeled in Unibox for a 35L sealed box, walls covered:

TC-1000 12"
Price: $119
Xmax: 24mm
Fs: 19Hz
Fb: 41.2
F3: 49.2
Max SPL@300w: 111.3db
SPL@1w: 86.6db
Qtc: .609
Sag% calc. (needs to be ,<5): 2.9%

TC-DB-500 12"
Price: $75
Xmax: 20mm
Fs: 19Hz
Fb: 32.5
F3: 31.6
Max SPL@300w: 106.8db
SPL@1w: 82.0db
Qtc: .733
Sag% calc. (needs to be ,<5): 3.4%

PE DVC 295-185 12" (What I have now)
Price: $109
Xmax: 15mm
Fs: 21.2Hz
Fb: 44.5
F3: 42.4
Max SPL@300w: 111.6db
SPL@1w: 86.9db
Qtc: .744
Sag% calc. (needs to be ,<5): 3.5%

PE RSS315HF-4 12"
Price: $129
Xmax: 14mm
Fs: 23.0Hz
Fb: 41.5
F3: 38.0
Max SPL@300w: 109.5db
SPL@1w: 84.8db
Qtc: .785
Sag% calc. (needs to be ,<5): 3.4%

PE Titanic MKIII 12"
Price: $160
Xmax: 18.7mm
Fs: 22.2Hz
Fb: 38.2
F3: 36.6
Max SPL@300w: 108.96db
SPL@1w: 86.9db
Qtc: .742
Sag% calc. (needs to be ,<5): 2.7%

According to Unibox, none of these reach xmax with 300w, but the DVC and RSS315 are within 1mm or so. BTW, with the current DVC's, the amps are up about 2/3rds and they've always given plenty of spl.

I modeled the TC-2000 and 3000 and the SoundSplinter Rl-P 12 and they all had quite a bit higher f3's, but lower Qtc's, about 53hz/.463, 64Hz/.410, and 65hz/.479, respectively.

I'd like to get opinions regarding which driver you all think will work in best in this application, or if there are other drivers I should consider.

Thanks in advance! :T

[ThomasW]

I modeled the TC-2000 and 3000 and the SoundSplinter Rl-P 12 and they all had quite a bit higher f3's, but lower Qtc's, about 53hz/.463, 64Hz/.410, and 65hz/.479, respectively.

The RL-p12" has an Fs or 19Hz or 23.4Hz depending on the VC's. These are nice drivers for putting in small boxes where LT circuits and 'power' can be used to advantage

http://www.soundsplinter.com/rlp12_premium_series_12_inch_DIY_subwoofer_information.html

[dlneubec]

The RL-p12" has an Fs or 19Hz or 23.4Hz depending on the VC's. These are nice drivers for putting in small boxes where LT circuits and 'power' can be used to advantage

http://www.soundsplinter.com/rlp12_p...formation.html

Thanks Thomas,

They really are a little out of my range at $460/pair. :E I've got to save some cash for a new amp to power them eventually!

[ThomasW]

Sorry I didn't realize you wanted a pair. If that's the case the DB-500 or TC-1000 are probably your best bet.

I have a couple older lightly used Adire Shiva MKII gathering dust in the basement. I'd sell the pair for $80 if you're interested. These are the design PE copied when designing their original DVC-12"

And I bet give all the playing he's done with 12"s in recent years, Jon probably has very lightly used drivers sitting around as well. He's traveling for the next 2-3 weeks though .....

[dlneubec]

I have a couple older lightly used Adire Shiva MKII gathering dust in the basement. I'd sell the pair for $80 if you're interested. These are the design PE copied when designing their original DVC-12"

And I bet give all the playing he's done with 12"s in recent years, Jon probably has very lightly used drivers sitting around as well. He's traveling for the next 2-3 weeks though .....

I just might be inerested in what you guys might have used. Maybe Jon will chime in with what he might have, if he takes a peak at this. I'm not in a real big hurry, but would probably like to have seomthing in the next 4-6 weeks or so.

Anyone else have something that fits they might want to be rid of? :W

[joecarrow]

Just my two cents- the Dayton Reference and TC woofers should give you lower distortion than the other woofers. My opinion is based partially on this-

http://mfk-projects.com/woofers.htm

It would be a difficult choice buying new drivers- but if you're happy with the sound you presently have, Thomas's offer is definitely the bang/buck leader.

[dlneubec]

Just my two cents- the Dayton Reference and TC woofers should give you lower distortion than the other woofers. My opinion is based partially on this-

http://mfk-projects.com/woofers.htm

It would be a difficult choice buying new drivers- but if you're happy with the sound you presently have, Thomas's offer is definitely the bang/buck leader.

Thanks, Joe,

Well, I think it might be improved with a bit cleaner, sharper bottom end, which is the main reason I looked first at the TC's and the Dayton RS. We are always trying to tweak things to make them better, aren't we? :B

[JonMarsh]

I should have a pair of TC2+ in my climate controlled storage unit, they've been mounted briefly in my woofer tester, and for a little while in an Arvo prototype. I'd take $75 each plus shipping.

[dlneubec]

Hi John,

That sounds like it might be what I'm looking for. Let me do some modeling on them to see how they work in my application.

Does anyone have any impressions of the TC2+ as compared to the TC1000 and the RSS315 in terms of sound quality and distortion?

[dlneubec]

I should have a pair of TC2+ in my climate controlled storage unit, they've been mounted briefly in my woofer tester, and for a little while in an Arvo prototype. I'd take $75 each plus shipping.

John,

I was just googling for some TS parameters and it occured to me that you didn't mention if these were the DVC or SVC version.

Also, do you have any TS info from your testing? There seems to be a discrepancy in what TC Sounds used to publish and what Oaudio still has published. See
TC2+ TS from TC sounds vs Oaudio

[ThomasW]

Jon has the DVC version, the SVC version didn't exist when these drivers were purchased.

TC Sounds publishes the generic data for the series, the O-Audio version was custom built to Todd's specs.

Link to Jon's testing

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=242109&postcount=264

[bossobass]

FWIW, I have a pair of John Janowitz/TC Sounds AV-12s that I never used. $50 each, if you're interested.

I'm sure I have the T/S around here somewhere also...LMK.

Bosso

[dlneubec]

Thanks Bosso,

But John's TC2+'s are looking pretty good right now. I wish I could find some more solid TS parameters on them to be sure, but I'll probably go for the TC2+'s.

[ThomasW]

But John's TC2+'s are looking pretty good right now. I wish I could find some more solid TS parameters on them to be sure, but I'll probably go for the TC2+'s.

The ones published on the O-Audio webpage are accurate.