Budget $400. Suggestions for a subwoofer driver for $150???

[zzzz]

Hey everyone,

I'm trying to come in under a budget I have my eye on an amp for about ($160 - http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...Amp?sku=482052 ). Having said that I'm trying to spend no more than I have to do get a good subwoofer built. We're after a bang-for-the-buck subwoofer with better sq as we're not so interested in spl because we listen to movies at low volumes (typically -20 db relative to the 75 db reference level), but occasionally we hope the kids won't awaken and crank it up!!! 90% HT and 10% music.

Can anyone suggest a subwoofer driver for about $150 as I have to buy paint and tools. Maybe we can stretch to $200 or so.

Thanks for all your advice!!!!

[PoorboyMike]

How about a Dayton RS390? HO or HF depends on how big of a box you want. Go with HO if you want a smaller sealed cabinet.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-469

[---k---]

15" TC1000 is $199 through this weekend.

[ThomasW]

Buy the 15" here

http://www.diycable.com

[---k---]

Well there you go, Thomas has spoken.

[zzzz]

Thanks everyone!!!! Does anyone have feedback/reviews of the diycable 15"-er??? I like the specs of the 15" tc 1000. Having said that would anything be gained by going down to the 12" tc 1000 or up to the 12" tc 2000?

Have a BIC H-100 at the moment and have never really had a subwoofer before (with the exception of a HTiB passive), so I am kinda unsure of what we need to get to step up into serious quality woofing - without having serious volume.

I saw the Adire Tempest Classic at http://www.creativesound.ca/details....pest%20Classic. Does this older design compete with the newer technologies in more recent offerings.

Regards to all!

[cobbpa]

Thomas has spoken.

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[zzzz]

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Thomas has spoken
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Er... OK - I didn't see that earlier. Must have been posted as I was composing my response. Eeek.

;x(

[JonMarsh]

Buy the 15" here

http://www.diycable.com

Damn that's nice driver even for twice the price! 27 mm Xmax AND 89 dB/watt? I presume that's with both VC wired in parallel. Q is perfect for IB or dipole. And it's supposed to be a low inductance XBL^2 motor? Too bad Le wasn't spec'd.


Image not available


I hope they have this around for a while... even though it is a limited production run item. I can imagine wanting 4 right off the bat - if the first one tests out right.

But my piggy bank won't take more driver purchases this month- gotta wrap up some other stuff.

[AJINFLA]

That is a very impressive OB/IB driver. The price is outstanding..and temporary I imagine. Like Jon if I didn't have ten (no kidding) 15's already....
Zzzz, that driver would require a huge box, not so sure I would recommend it for what I think you may want.

cheers,

AJ

[ThomasW]

They had some 50 units available last week, so grab them now or they'll be gone.

Here's a thread Peter posted about these drivers 2 weeks ago....

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26760

[---k---]

Having said that would anything be gained by going down to the 12" tc 1000 or up to the 12" tc 2000?

There is no replacement for displacement!
Going down in size to a 12" driver will give you ~1/2 of the displacement of the 15" TC or XJ. That means ~1/2 the output. Not worth it!!! (Unless you have to make a cute little box to satisfy a spouse.)


We're just teasing about Thomas, but he is probably the most knowledgeable.

[ThomasW]

Zzzz, that driver would require a huge box, not so sure I would recommend it for what I think you may want.

cheers,

AJ

I think someone with a minimal budget could live with the somewhat compromised performance created by putting this driver in conventional sized box.

[zzzz]

Thanks Guys once more. How big would that enclosure have to be? I'm thinking of a 4' (tall) x 2' (wide) x 2' (deep) enclosure. Not sure whether to go sonotube or a simple box design, am tending more to the latter at this point. Probably 300 litres or so.

[Mazeroth]

Going down in size to a 12" driver will give you ~1/2 of the displacement of the 15" TC or XJ. That means ~1/2 the output. Not worth it!!! (Unless you have to make a cute little box to satisfy a spouse.)

If I'm not mistaken halving the displacement will only cause a 3 dB drop in output.

[littlesaint]

If I'm not mistaken halving the displacement will only cause a 3 dB drop in output.

Isn't 3dB less half as loud?

[littlesaint]

I think someone with a minimal budget could live with the somewhat compromised performance created by putting this driver in conventional sized box.

If you went with a "correct" box, I figure a little over 10 cubic feet? Not too bad.

Would you port this or go sealed?

[ThomasW]

Thanks Guys once more. How big would that enclosure have to be? I'm thinking of a 4' (tall) x 2' (wide) x 2' (deep) enclosure. Not sure whether to go sonotube or a simple box design, am tending more to the latter at this point. Probably 300 litres or so.

No problem at all if you have room for that size enclosure. A tube sub would be the best approach unless you have access to a forklift...

If you went with a "correct" box, I figure a little over 10 cubic feet? Not too bad.

Would you port this or go sealed?

Ported if the goal is to keep cost low. Another option would be sealed with an LT circuit.

[zzzz]

If you went with a "correct" box, I figure a little over 10 cubic feet? Not too bad.

Would you port this or go sealed?

It would probably be ported. Thinking about having the driver downward firing.

[zzzz]

No problem at all if you have room for that size enclosure. A tube sub would be the best approach unless you have access to a forklift...

Ported if the goal is to keep cost low. Another option would be sealed with an LT circuit.

I have a great space behind the couch that's currently no-mans land due to 2 bookcases on either side of the window. The sub would then be in front of said window and between the bookcases.

[littlesaint]

It would probably be ported. Thinking about having the driver downward firing.

My math was way off. For a sealed box you're looking at around ~20 cubic feet and an f3 of ~30Hz with fb slightly lower. LT definitely necessary there.

Ported is ~32 cubic feet giving an unadulterated f3 of ~14 HZ, and an fb of ~17Hz.

Experts please double chekc my math as I don't have unibox on this computer (linux) :roll:

[zzzz]

Just modeled that exodus xj-15 in winisd and it tells me that I need a box enclosure of 930.5 L (32.8 cubic feet). I used a dia (I presume a diameter) of 15 inches for winisd, that correct? Probably makes little difference for modeling anyhoo.

Frequency response is FLAT down to about 15 Hz. Now the question is can I build that monster enclosure?

Anyone have comments on the Tempest I mentioned above? Seems like a good price.

[PoorboyMike]

Just modeled that exodus xj-15 in winisd and it tells me that I need a box enclosure of 930.5 L (32.8 cubic feet).

You don't need it anywhere near that big. 8O Just to give you an idea, here is a pic of a couple of 260L subs. Now picture something almost 4x bigger. 8O 8O 8O

Image not available

[dlneubec]

FWIW, here is another inexpensive approach that I'm considering. I picked up four of the PE Buyout 12" drivers and considering using them in about a 300L cabinet, in a 2x2 series/parallel setup. They were a DOTW awhile back and only cost me $60 for 4. Still, they are only $20ea. now or $18ea. for four.
PE 12" Buyout

They only have 8mm xmax, but below is what I get at an input of just 75w per driver, with a 6"dia. x 19-11/16" long port. Also, I measured one in a 1.4ft3 sealed cabinet and the FR and impedance are below:

[zzzz]

FWIW, here is another inexpensive approach that I'm considering. I picked up four of the PE Buyout 12" drivers and considering using them in about a 300L cabinet, in a 2x2 series/parallel setup. They were a DOTW awhile back and only cost me $60 for 4. Still, they are only $20ea. now or $18ea. for four.
PE 12" Buyout

They only have 8mm xmax, but below is what I get at an input of just 75w per driver, with a 6"dia. x 19-11/16" long port. Also, I measured one in a 1.4ft3 sealed cabinet and the FR and impedance are below:

Interesting... how much ampage would be required to exercise these babies?

[zzzz]

My math was way off. For a sealed box you're looking at around ~20 cubic feet and an f3 of ~30Hz with fb slightly lower. LT definitely necessary there.

Ported is ~32 cubic feet giving an unadulterated f3 of ~14 HZ, and an fb of ~17Hz.

Experts please double chekc my math as I don't have unibox on this computer (linux) :roll:

Well, we both came up with the same numbers. So we're either correct, or used the wrong units on input. I want to check that math again as I was in my pre-coffee state at that time!

[dlneubec]

Interesting... how much ampage would be required to exercise these babies?

That Unibox model was with 300 watts into an 8ohm load.

[zzzz]

That Unibox model was with 300 watts into an 8ohm load.

The amp I link to at the top can handle 200 W at 8 ohms. Any chance you could run that through unibox?

Apparently that amp can do: 400W/ch @ 2 ohms, 300W @ 4 ohms, 200W @ 8 ohms, 900W bridged mono @ 4 ohms.

Do you have a feel for sq over sheer volume?

[ahaik]

It says on the website "The XJ-15 has parameters that make it perfect for Infinite Baffle or dipole setups"
Is a sonosub considered IB ? and if not, is using this driver in a sonotube not optimal ?

[ahaik]

Looks like they are made by Sound Solutions Audio
Quote: "We had a slight goof on a production run which has a wee bit too stiff of a suspension for our original goals."
to the experts, How does it translate into SQ ?

[littlesaint]

I ordered two. For that price, I'll figure something out to do with them.

[dlneubec]

The amp I link to at the top can handle 200 W at 8 ohms. Any chance you could run that through unibox?

Apparently that amp can do: 400W/ch @ 2 ohms, 300W @ 4 ohms, 200W @ 8 ohms, 900W bridged mono @ 4 ohms.

Do you have a feel for sq over sheer volume?

Well, that was 300w total, all four drivers, mono. Since that is a 2 channel amp, I would think you could power two pairs of parallel drivers, one pair with each channel. Each channel would be presented with a 4ohm load. You would have 400w available per channel, and the drivers would be reaching their XMAX limits at just 150w. Seems like lots of headroom to me. You could also make it two boxes of 125-150L each, each box with a parallel pair of drivers. That would give you flexibility in placement and orientation and much lighter boxes to handle.

However, at just 50w/driver, a total of 200w into 4 drivers from one channel, you would just lose a couple decibals (see below).

FYI, 4-12" driver has a little more driver surface area than 2-15" drivers, by way of comparison.

[ThomasW]

Looks like they are made by Sound Solutions Audio
Quote: "We had a slight goof on a production run which has a wee bit too stiff of a suspension for our original goals."
to the experts, How does it translate into SQ ?

Sound Solutions Audio is the name of the forum.

Companies like DIY Cable, Acoustic-Visions, CSS, etc., get together to have a production run of drivers made. That's where the so called "Classic" Shiva and Tempest came from.

Although the Qts is technically to high for optimal small box, I see that as a minimal penalty to get such a high quality driver at a very low price.

Since these have the XBL^2 technology, IMO they're no brainer for someone wanting a very low cost but high performance driver.

[ahaik]

Thanks Thomas,
I just ordered one :T , I would need help when I am ready to build the sonosub. I can live with a large enclosure.

[Adam321]

So, I read through this post and I am still unsure how to make the best use of this driver, if you are not going IB or dipole? What would be the optimal configuration for this driver in a reasonable size box (by reasonable I would say around 12 cubic feet), Sealed, or ported (what tuning frequency)?

Thanks,
Adam.

[zzzz]

Sound Solutions Audio is the name of the forum.

Companies like DIY Cable, Acoustic-Visions, CSS, etc., get together to have a production run of drivers made. That's where the so called "Classic" Shiva and Tempest came from.

Although the Qts is technically to high for optimal small box, I see that as a minimal penalty to get such a high quality driver at a very low price.

Since these have the XBL^2 technology, IMO they're no brainer for someone wanting a very low cost but high performance driver.

Thanks Thomas!! The driver models VERY well in a 300 L box (using unibox) which sizes out to about 33 x 33 x 18 (w x h x d). See attached plots.

[zzzz]

Thanks Thomas,
I just ordered one :T , I would need help when I am ready to build the sonosub. I can live with a large enclosure.

I'll jump on that bandwagon and splash the ca$h too!!

[zzzz]

So, I read through this post and I am still unsure how to make the best use of this driver, if you are not going IB or dipole? What would be the optimal configuration for this driver in a reasonable size box (by reasonable I would say around 12 cubic feet), Sealed, or ported (what tuning frequency)?

Thanks,
Adam.

Hi Adam,

I'm planning on a 300 L ported box with a tuning frequency of 15 Hz. It will have a 6 in diameter port which is 26 1/3 in long. The dimensions will be 33 (w) x 33 (h) x 18 (d). The unibox model graphs are attached to one of my posts on the 1st page of this thread. They look ok to me.

[---k---]

Z,
That does look good.
Could you post a plot or two with the tune raised to 17-18.5hz - ish. Even better would be to use the "save graph" feature so that they are over-laid. I'm just curious.

[Eric S]

Buy the 15" here

http://www.diycable.com/main/product...1b3261e84cd1f7

Thomas:

Wow, that's a nice driver! I am looking to build a IB sub in my basement theater that measures 14'w by 23'l by 7.5'h. Would I be better suited by 2 or 4 of these drivers?

Thanks!
Eric

[PoorboyMike]

Hi Adam,

I'm planning on a 300 L ported box with a tuning frequency of 15 Hz. It will have a 6 in diameter port which is 26 1/3 in long. The dimensions will be 33 (w) x 33 (h) x 18 (d). The unibox model graphs are attached to one of my posts on the 1st page of this thread. They look ok to me.

Try modeling that with the Nady amp in bridged mono (900w). You're not even coming close to pushing that driver with only 200 watts.

[JonMarsh]

he he he..... Isiris Jr. Mini-me. Or Arvo Part Strykes Back.

[littlesaint]

Isn't that Qts on the high side for a ported box?

[JonMarsh]

Yes.

And I'm not doing a ported box....

Trix are for open baffles, not for rabbits.

[ThomasW]

Thomas:

Wow, that's a nice driver! I am looking to build a IB sub in my basement theater that measures 14'w by 23'l by 7.5'h. Would I be better suited by 2 or 4 of these drivers?

Thanks!
Eric

At least 4