Budget Sub - $400

[thatguyyoulove]

Looking to build a sub for $400 or so to go with the RS Dynamic Series Jed is designing.

I was thinking of pairing the RSS390HF-4 15"

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-468

with the Dayton SA240

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-804

in a 24" sealed cube (I can build the whole thing, with a double face and braces, with a single 4'x8' piece of 3/4" MDF for $30).

Here is the graph (with a rough but close calculation of Vb after amp/brace is subtracted)



xmax for this driver is 14mm. Should I worry about the xmax going over by 2mm at the very low end ? I had heard xmax + 10% was usually ok but this is slightly over that. Would keeping the volume down mitigate that when watching heavy LFE content? The sub will probably be turned down a good amount of the time. Are there any better drivers in the price range that I should look at? I thought about the Tempest-X2 but it kind of kills my budget. I'm not looking to create drywall cracking bass until I have a dedicated room. That being said I would like to see how much low end extension I can get back when I EQ with a little DRC(using convolver impulses and a PEQ).

I'm mainly just looking to see if there is anything you guys may be able to point out that is a poor idea or that can be improved upon. I would like to order the parts this week so that I may have the box about done when they arrive. Also, what would you recommend for damping in the box?

I plan on leaving this sub naked until I get the speakers done and then finishing them all at once. I'm assuming some speaker gasketing tape and screws will secure the amp well enough to keep a seal while still being easily removable later on?

[ThomasW]

xmax for this driver is 14mm. Should I worry about the xmax going over by 2mm at the very low end ? I had heard xmax + 10% was usually ok but this is slightly over that.

No problem, just ignore Xmax, and don't concern yourself with the amount of distortion being generated...

[thatguyyoulove]

No problem, just ignore Xmax, and don't concern yourself with the amount of distortion being generated...

Interesting. Why is that, and where do you draw the line? I'm trying to suck up as much speaker knowledge as possible.

[ThomasW]

Interesting. Why is that, .

The further the driver moves the greater the distortion

and where do you draw the line?.

Correct where does one draw the line? That's the $64,000 question. And why people say "there's no replacement for displacement" aka multiple drivers, so there's lots of Vd

[thatguyyoulove]

The further the driver moves the greater the distortion

I understand that part I just meant why ignore xmax. I thought that going past that posed significant risk of driver damage.

Correct where does one draw the line? That's the $64,000 question. And why people say "there's no replacement for displacement" aka multiple drivers, so there's lots of Vd

Right. Wouldn't adding another identical sub (and enclosure) only raise the SPL by +3db though? As far as displacement should this work out well then my next planned upgrade path would be a Maelstrom in a ported enclosure (or as a THT).

[ThomasW]

The 'ignore Xmax' was satire/sarcasm, and a dig at those saying use 10% over Xmax, hence the winkie

Yes adding the second woofer can result in +3 to 6dB increase in output, and it also decreases the workload/distortion

[thatguyyoulove]

Glad you said that. I didn't even notice that it was a winking smiley. So what is safe as far as xmax goes? It seems like this driver really doesn't work so well in larger enclosures.

Red - 18" cube
Cyan - 20" cube
Purple - 20.5" cube
Black - 24" cube

[ThomasW]

Take a look at Zaph's design using the RSS390. It's about 1/2 down this page

http://www.zaphaudio.com/archives.html

[JonP]

Couple of things...

Down around 13-15 Hz is not a place where there will be lots of energy, in most music, though your movies will vary, and could have a lot. Real damage probably won't occur till the 20's of mm excursion, but you might not like the sound as much. Of course, LFE movie stuff doesn't have quite the hi-fidelity requirements of audiophile music listening... :W

The Dayton 240W amp has a high pass filter (infrasonic filter) that will limit the low end excursion somewhat. That will help protect the driver at the very low end. You will see that rising excursion slow down or even turn back around.

From the "Bass Boost" table on that amp: http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/300-804boost.pdf there's a filter with it's -3dB corner at 13 Hz. Not sure of the order, there used to be a technical review on that amp with more detail but I don't have it handy. Probably a 6 or 12db/oct slope. I'd suggest getting Jeff Bagby's excellent "Woofer, Box and Crossover Designer" spreadsheet (if you have Excel) and model it all out in that. http://audio.claub.net/software/jbabgy/jbagby.html

If you don't happen to have Excel, I think you can put a filter into the response in Bass Box.

Finally, I'd think more about what your box tuning Q will be, and try to aim for .707 or lower, for good damping. Off the top of my head, I seem to remember 3 cu ft was a reasonable volume for a sealed RSS390HF.

And Finally finally, the Dayton "speaker quality" foam tape is well worth it's slightly premium price. Much nicer than any weatherstripping you'll find at your local Lowes Depot or whatever. Great adhesive, firm material... Put it on the back of the driver and you'll be able to take it in and out as much as you want. For the amp, they do come with a thin gasket already on them.

Hmmm... more than a couple things... ops:

[thatguyyoulove]

Wow Jon, tons of good advice. Thank you. As to the actual frequencies this thing will be subjected to I will mostly be using it for movies (lots of low LFE usually, Iron Man, Dark Knight, Inception, Cloverfield, etc.) and music (of which 25-40% has lots of low end i.e. Drum and Bass, Orchestral Movie Scores and some hip hop). I want it to be able to pound fairly well for the LFE stuff, but tight musicality is more important. The Dayton Speaker Gasketing Tape was exactly what I was referring to as I planned to use it on the sub. Good to hear another good review about it.

I think I am going to go ahead and order everything, though I guess I need to figure out what damping I am going to use. Would 1lb. of Acousta-Stuf be enough? Should I just use pink fiberglass instead? Does damping have any effect on excursion? I know it makes the sub appear bigger, but am unsure as to if it makes any change in how hard the sub drives.

@Thomas

Thanks for the link.

[evilskillit]

Thomas FWIW Zaph's sub used the 12" reference driver, not the 15".

As for this sub I've heard a sealed 15" reference driver in a ~4 cu ft box and it was quite nice and musical, didn't hear it in any HT capacity but I'm sure it would work pretty well. Unless its going to break your budget you might be able to do better amp wise. I'd go for a BASH300 or 500 depending on what cost will allow. The Daytons are allright but from personal experience the BASH units are very nice too and I hear of less issues with them. Specifically the Oaudio BASH 500 has a lot of nice features.

Also if you want more tactile sensation from the lowest octaves a ported design could work better but would in most cases need to be a lot larger than the sealed box.

You might look over AVDweebs thread over at PE, its the same as the one he posted here but its got a lot more info in it, including his final choice.

[Silver1omo]

BeerParty posted a "Easy Button Mini" design using the Shiva-X2. The Shiva is $195 and the Oaudio 500w is $229.
It looks cool.

[thatguyyoulove]

Jon, did I interpret the settings correctly for the subsonic filter? Ignore that the name at the top says HO and not HF. The settings are for the HF version.

*Warning large image*

[Ray_D]

Couple of things

Take a look at Zaph's design using the RSS390. It's about 1/2 down this page

http://www.zaphaudio.com/archives.html

John did a 315 not a 390, I think. I've read some complaints of the 390 being fragile. I have two 315s and no problems.

Second, all simulations I've seen are infinite baffle not 4pi and do not account for the 6dB loss in the region where all subs live.

Regards

Ray

[thatguyyoulove]

John did a 315 not a 390, I think. I've read some complaints of the 390 being fragile. I have two 315s and no problems.

Second, all simulations I've seen are infinite baffle not 4pi and do not account for the 6dB loss in the region where all subs live.

Regards

Ray

Can you explain more? Is there any way for me to account for this? I want to push the driver as close to xmax without endangering it as possible. I did read about Jim Holtz killing one of these things in a large sealed box a few years ago.

Also I had gone ahead and ordered the 240 amp, rss390hf, gasketing tape, and hurricane nuts right after lunch this morning.

[thatguyyoulove]

After reading a few other comments I have decided to cancel my order. I am not in a huge hurry to get this thing built as the speakers that it will go with are still in the design phase.

Any other ideas for driver/amp combinations? I could expand the budget $50 or so. I really would like a Tempest-X2 but that leaves only $150ish for an amp. Is there a choice that would drive this suitably? Plate or external makes no difference (as long as it isn't noisy due to a fan or something).

[evilskillit]

The Shiva Easy Button Mini might not be a bad idea considering your budget. What are your goals? and what is the basis of your preference of sealed over ported if any? What size room is this sub for? It looks like you might have to either expand your budget a bit or compromise what you want out of this sub, tho in all honesty I really doubt if you'd be disappointed by any of your possible options unless your're just sub spoiled.

I wouldn't worry about content below about 15-20hz unless this is going to be mostly for movies, and if you really want to hit that low you need to start thinking bigger, sub and budget wise.

Just to give you an idea of what you could be getting into tho, we built a sub for my friend using the BASH 300 amp the RSS315HF-4 12" Reference subwoofer in a 3 cubic foot box port tuned to about 20hz. This basically plays pretty well down to 18 or 19hz where it rolls off sharply due to the port tuning and amp's highpass/boost circuit. In my friends living room where his house has an open floor plan so there is probably no room gain to speak of, the thing is LOUD, it shakes all the furniture in the living room and due to the way it is designed should be immune to over-excursion damage. It is also quite nice and musical sounding. This was built for $300 and you're looking at spending more so you should be able to make something better... and if you do whatever route you go I doubt you'll be disappointed.

If you want to build something using the Tempest X-2 you'll need a lot more power to get your moneys worth out of that sub in a sealed box. 500 watts probably won't be enough and 1000watt sub amps are $500. For that price you could get a Behringer EP2500 and a minidsp for bass management, and a sampson s-convert if need be to boost the signal. If you go with a sub with that much power handling and don't go with something like a pro amp for the best dollars to watts deal and some futureproofing you're probably short changing yourself.

[thatguyyoulove]

Ah, I was under the impression that less power would only make things play less loud with minimal impact on SQ. Either way I sent the cancellation to Parts Express and they told me that they shipped it on Wednesday and that it would be delivered today. I never received such an email, even in a junk folder. The tracking numbers weren't in my account on the site either. However after that email I received another email from them informing me of the shipment and then the tracking numbers magically appeared in my account. Weird. I will probably just stick with what I originally ordered. Perhaps I will sell it later if I need more. Probably not a bad idea to start smaller anyway to see exactly what I am getting myself into. I guess now my only question is, does anyone know if I did the modeling correctly for the highpass filter above?

Also, how much worse would it be to use the pink insulation for stuffing rather than Acousta-Stuf or otherwise.

[evilskillit]

Not sure about the modeling on the 240B amp boost, somebody else will have to comment on that.

As for sound damping the pink stuff should work a lot better, you'll need less of it because of that.

To the point of needing more amp for those Exodus subs the issue is 2 fold, 1 they may be less sensitive, therefore requiring more power, I'd have to check. 2 with all that extra excursion you'll definitely want more power to take advantage of it either for pure volume or for low end bass boost, sure technically it'll just not play as loud, but there are other functions to having more power as well, no point in fretting over it right now tho, I bet the sub you're building will make you happier than you think it might.

[thatguyyoulove]

It isn't the 240B. I was talking about modeling the subsonic filter in the normal 240.

[thatguyyoulove]

I don't have a lot of woodworking experience and have made a couple mistakes already which prompted me buying another 4x8 sheet of MDF. The first issue was that I couldn't keep my jigsaw on the line I had drawn as I was using a piece of trim as a fence that flexed a bit in the center. Then the jigsaw blade twisted inside the tool itself so I switched to the big circular saw. Things went swimmingly here but my end results for the 2 squares I planned on gluing together as a front baffle were slightly off (probably by the width of the blade as I invariably cut from a different side somewhere). Then when I glued and clamped them anyway (thinking I could live with shaving 1/4" off each side and shrinking the whole design a smidge) I came back the next day to realize my two big clamps weren't enough and that the boards had hardened with a 3/32" gap on two corners.

At this point I decided that I would try and come up with a more precise cutting system. With the new sheet of MDF I bought I made sure that the factory cut edges were all true. Since they were I cut a 3 inch strip, flipped it so that the true edge was now on the inside, and placed it on the edge of the MDF. I then put 5 small patches of epoxy (to hopefully prevent splintering) along the strip, made sure it was square with the perpendicular true edges of the main sheet, and drilled pilot holes followed by screws. I now had a true edged guide screwed square to my sheet. I then carefully put my circular saw against it and ran it down the length of the sheet. This gave me an exact mark as to where my blade would cut whenever I run it down the guide (as it will run right along the edge). In this way I Can set this guide on to whatever I need to cut and line the bottom edge (which is true as it was cut using a true edge as a guide) up with my pencil marks. Now when I run my saw along the upper true edge I know that the saw blade will run right along the lower true edge, cutting the line exactly. The only downside is that since the saw is riding on top of the lower board you lose 3/4" of cutting depth. Since my saw cuts deeper than 1.5" that won't be an issue here.

Here is a picture to make things actually make sense visually.




I am hoping to get things cut tomorrow. I only have two clamps that will fit this much wood. Since I would go crazy trying to wait 24 hours each time I glue a new board on would it be a good idea to line up the boards, glue them, square them, clamp them, drill pilot holes, screw them together, wait 30 minutes for the initial cure, and then move to the next piece? I plan to paint or veneer so I can always fill over the top of the screw with wood putty and sand down.

[Bent]

Do you have a router with a good flush-trim bit?
If so, then inaccurate cuts will be a non-issue, just leave 1/8" overlap on the bigger piece of the but-joint and flush trim it with the router...
Viola - perfect but joint on a leas-than-stellar cut.

BTW - the saw DIY sawguide is also an excellent addition to a shop, but using 3/4" material is waaaayyyy overkill, and the fence you install on the platform will provide the first initial guide where you will establish the "edge" guide of the sawguide.

EDIT: Nevermind, I re-read your post, and payed attention this time, 'looks like you're on top of it.

[thatguyyoulove]

I don't but plan to get one sometime soonish.

[Bent]

You can also use wood screws (drywall screws work well) to help pull the but-joints together, then turn them out afterwords and fill the holes with filler.

[Mazeroth]

After reading a few other comments I have decided to cancel my order.

I'm curious as to what you've read?

FWIW, I have an infinite baffle subwoofer with 4 of the RSS390HF subs (2 per manifold) and they are nothing short of stunning. Very low distortion. I've had many subs come through my house and this is the best I've ever heard. Clean, clean and clean. I've pushed them so hard it's not even funny and they keep asking for more. I would build as large of a sealed enclosure that you can, pair it with that SA240 amp and call it a day. You're worrying about too much. Just build it!



Monte Kay is a complete audio nut and used 24 of these in his dual dipole array subs. If they're good enough for Monte... :T

http://www.mfk-projects.com/Home_Theatre/theatre_woofer.html

Be sure to check out the rest of his web site. Good stuff.

[thatguyyoulove]

Yes I purchased Reports x 1.25" wood screws for the joining, though I am wondering if that is a bit too close to the full 1.5" depth or not. If I am screwing them in slightly more than flush then is there really any reason to take them out later? I can fill over the top of them without issue. Are they going to cause some kind of resonance issues or something?

I plan on getting a router to do the driver holes and the roundovers and such on my speaker build coming up. Not sure which one yet though the Porter Cable models have excellent reviews.

Too bad it is raining here so I can't go outside and cut. I would rather not mess up the new garage.

Click to enlarge.

Picture is obviously before we moved the furniture, TV, etc. back in.

I'm curious as to what you've read?

I had just read a couple posts about people breaking these things in larger enclosures and my modeling definitely showed me getting close to the xmax.

[thatguyyoulove]

With Parts-Express' new sale on plate amps I am going to return my 240 and get the Bash 300. I already paid for 240 Watts at $140, so 300 Watts for $99 sounds great! Plus the ground hum from the 240 was an annoyance and I would really rather not start removing ground connections on amplifiers.

[1Michael]

I use 4 of the 390's in my bass bins and they are awesome. I would suggest against the plate amp...go pro :T

[mackintire]

Consider me the third vote for the easy button mini with the 500 watt O-audio amp.

[thatguyyoulove]

Well I might go that way should I decide to sell this sub, but for now I think this will do alright as I need to keep the volume at a fairly low level at night (when I watch 90% of my content) as my 10 year old sister goes to bed at 9:30 or so.

Plus I don't want to keep losing money paying shipping to return things.

I am still wayyy behind on the sub project as my sawguide ended up being a total failure due to the fact that the saw's motor had less than the needed 3/4" clearance needed to run the baseplate along the board without the motor hitting. I ended up finding a metal T-square and using it to cut the front baffle pieces. However I made a small calculation error in determining the distance from the side of my base plate to the blade's edge (by the distance of the blade, 1/8th in.) so my baffles are all .25" too big. That being said they are glued and done curing now so hopefully tomorrow I can trim them to the correct size and get the other pieces cut.

[thatguyyoulove]

Back and in business!

So after the failure of my first go at this project I nearly gave up on it. I was having a lot of issues keeping any things straight or square due to some flimsy aluminum saw guides that bent after a single pass and several failed attempts at cutting the first pieces. Before I knew it finals were here and I was constantly studying, working, raising my daughter, etc.

Almost a year later with the speakers and wood collecting dust I decided that I WILL FINISH THIS PROJECT. I got a stellar deal on a brand new router from a guy on Craigslist for only $120 (would be $200 retail). I rebuilt my saw guide with thinner MDF and it has worked out great. I cut out all the pieces over the course of several hours. Here is the first bit of them. You can see the baffle in the center and my saw guide behind it.



I then took one of the scrap pieces of MDF I had and made a circle jig for cutting out my driver hole.

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A pic of me (with a NATO certified gas mask, a bit overkill I know haha) routing out the driver hole with my jig.



Here are most of the outer pieces being put together. The baffle is just dry fit in while I glue the back to the (already glued together by now) bottom and sides.



Another shot. I actually accidentally glued my back piece in upside down without realizing it. I would prefer to have the controls lower so there isn't as much cord hanging down out of the back and the heat has more room to float up into the box and cool. I will just make sure that I fill in the few voids that were on the bottom piece (and made me choose to hide it under the sub) and flip the whole thing over (making it the top piece).



I had another issue with the baffle. The driver hole was cut using the diameter from the spec sheet, but this cut into the screw path a bit so I had some hurricane nuts that wouldn't stay in as you can see. I tried to shift the whole circle slightly so only a couple were affected a lot versus all of them being affected moderately.



A better look at the problem.



I bought a strip of iron and made a quick fix. Luckily this will be hidden inside the sub. I later added epoxy to the hurricane nuts so that they (hopefully) won't spin in place in the iron and I can actually screw the subs in. The epoxy is still curing currently.



I made a couple braces to put midway in the box and routed out the same circle pattern for airflow. I then glued the baffle.



I later decided that I just didn't quite trust glue only to hold the box together and put about 30 screws into the box. I drilled pilot holes to keep it from cracking since I was screwing into the .75" sides. I sunk all of the screw heads below the MDF (and ground down the stubborn ones that wouldn't sink that far) and started bondo'ing them tonight. I have a couple slight cracks (probably about 3/32 of an inch) that I will also be filling and am flush trimming any other niggling edges. I went ahead and caulked all of the interior edges that exist right now (four more will be created when I put the last piece on) so that I don't have to do it ALL through the driver hole later. That should cure overnight.

To-do list:

1. Glue on last piece
2. Flush trim everything
3. Bondo any holes/imperfections
4. Sand it smooth
5. Caulk rest of interior
6. Attach amp and driver
7. First test (WOOHOO)!
8. Disassemble driver/amp
9. Add feet
10. Apply fiberglass
11. Clean whole box
12. Apply vinyl
13. Final assembly
14. Connect to main system
15. EQ entire system
16. Enjoy!

As for budget, well, I'm pretty sure I'm way over $400 so far with all of the tools/epoxy/bondo/adhesive spray/fiberglass/etc. that I had to buy. Though, I will have a lot leftover for more projects later.

[evilskillit]

A few things, first of all congratulations on following through on the project, you're going to love a having a sub. You never know what you were missing but once you build it you'll wonder how you lived without it.

As for adding the screws, glue joints in MDF are stronger than the MDF themselves so adding screws doesn't add any strength; but don't worry I still used screws on my first build anyways too. It can speed things up if you use the screws to hold the mdf while the glue dries but otherwise no screws is better.

I seem to have missed it in the thread; you got the BASH 300 amp (thats what I use) but what sub driver did you end up going with?

Lastly, I've gone way over every budget I've ever set if you include the cost of tools, but the knowledge gained and ability to do other home improvement projects and fixes and becoming indispensable to your friends is really priceless, so write those costs off in your head and keep up the good work.

[benchtester]

...

A pic of me (with a NATO certified gas mask, a bit overkill I know haha) routing out the driver hole with my jig.



....

Looks pretty good. The last two times I got a MDF dust in my sinuses, I got a full blown cold immediately afterward. MDF dust in the eyes isn't much fun either.

[thatguyyoulove]

A few things, first of all congratulations on following through on the project, you're going to love a having a sub. You never know what you were missing but once you build it you'll wonder how you lived without it.

As for adding the screws, glue joints in MDF are stronger than the MDF themselves so adding screws doesn't add any strength; but don't worry I still used screws on my first build anyways too. It can speed things up if you use the screws to hold the mdf while the glue dries but otherwise no screws is better.

I seem to have missed it in the thread; you got the BASH 300 amp (thats what I use) but what sub driver did you end up going with?

Lastly, I've gone way over every budget I've ever set if you include the cost of tools, but the knowledge gained and ability to do other home improvement projects and fixes and becoming indispensable to your friends is really priceless, so write those costs off in your head and keep up the good work.

I settled on the Dayton 15" High Fidelity ( http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=295-468 ). And yes, I am very glad to have the tools for other projects I lucked out and noticed a clearance deal at Home depot last year where they were liquidating VERY nice pre-cut pine panels (24"x48") for $7 a piece (they were $30+ retail) and plan to use them to make a nice toychest for my daughter. The router and saw will be used extensively so I'm happy

Looks pretty good. The last two times I got a MDF dust in my sinuses, I got a full blown cold immediately afterward. MDF dust in the eyes isn't much fun either.

Sounds terrible. My arms were getting coated in the dust and it just made me itchy. Plus the stuff is around 9% urea formaldehyde which is nasty stuff.

[thatguyyoulove]

Here is a shot of the fixed hurricane nuts with the epoxy. A bit ghetto, yes?



I also finally have the last piece glued in now. Unfortunately just about every side is slightly off, but Bondo can fix it up!

[shame302]

With super careful measurements and re-checks, A simple metal frame stud and a set of clamps works very well using offsets and a skill saw. I built my statements using this method and they are within 1/64th" over all. Within the line of a mechanical pencil anyway.

[thatguyyoulove]

With super careful measurements and re-checks, A simple metal frame stud and a set of clamps works very well using offsets and a skill saw. I built my statements using this method and they are within 1/64th" over all. Within the line of a mechanical pencil anyway.

Yes, I hope to get my skill level to that level of precision and make things a lot easier on myself!

I have everything glued up and about 90% bondo'ed. Tomorrow I will finish the Bondo process, sand, wire the speaker quick disconnects onto some speaker wire and connect, drill pilot holes and screw in amp, bolt in speaker, TEST (yay!), remove amp and speaker, apply vinyl, cut out vinyl holes where needed, drill holes for feet, tap in hurricane nuts for feet, attach feet (spike type), spray adhesive and fiberglass interior, attach amp, bolt sub back in, and place in final position. Probably going to end up doing a full system room correction this weekend with Room EQ Wizard.

[thatguyyoulove]

Update! I have put everything together and done the initial testing. Watch the video for details.
[YOUTUBE]RjOXqQzJLrQ[/YOUTUBE]

[evilskillit]

Lookin very nice. The quarter test is quite telling, I wouldn't have thought it was vibrating that much. I don't know if that affects the sonics of it, but yeah I wouldn't put an expensive amp on top of it like that either.

[thatguyyoulove]

I braced the hell out of the sub last night. Had to use hammers to knock the braces into place (since the box was already built and they had to be rotated in radially, meaning the corners of the board had a slightly larger radius than the distance between walls).

I don't foresee this thing being able to flex a bit haha. Going to finish it up tonight! :T

[evilskillit]

This will be a good opportunity to see if you notice any difference or if that extra bracing is mostly just for piece of mind.

[thatguyyoulove]

Update with bracing and fiberglass!

[YOUTUBE]U8YbIOtpd4Y[/YOUTUBE]

[evilskillit]

Nice, you look positively evil in the gas mask and hoodie. I approve.

I'm really digging the video build logs as well, maybe I'll do something like that the next time I build something. What are you shooting with, a digital camera or an iPhone or a camcorder?

[thatguyyoulove]

Feeling unbelievably defeated right now.

I got the box vinyl'ed, drilled feet holes and put in hurricane nuts, cleaned everything up, and was down to just bolting/screwing the driver and amp in. Putting the amp in only 4 bolts would tighten, the other 4 would spin. Due to my new bracing I could only reach one hurricane nut from the back. I spent the next 2 hours wrestling with getting the bolts out (via friction from lifting the driver up). I then spent the next 3 hours trying different ways to keep the nuts from spinning. Nothing worked. I'm now looking at a nearly ruined baffle that is installed and finished, am covered in fiberglass, and have lost a lot of time that I needed to catch up on work for some clients. The only way I can see being able to salvage everything is to rip out all of the hurricane nuts that are in there, fill the holes with bondo, cut out a donut that is 1.5" of MDF deep with an outer diameter equal to the current diameter of my driver hole and an inner diameter of what my driver hole SHOULD have been. Then I will need to glue that in place (with an expanding glue? since I can't really clamp it in), re-drill the holes, reinstall new hurricane nuts, and try again. Really sucks....

[thatguyyoulove]

Here is the video I took just before the mishaps occurred.

[YOUTUBE]9k9HEyID8kI[/YOUTUBE]