Club Musical Fidelity

[bigburner]

Hey, it'll take more than that to offend me Richard! I didn't notice your location when I first replied.

I lived in Adelaide for 6 months in 1973. Where in Oz are you?

My Aussie mate and I flatted together in London in the mid 70's. He lives in Seeeedny now.

[Spearmint]

Hey, it'll take more than that to offend me Richard! I didn't notice your location when I first replied.

I lived in Adelaide for 6 months in 1973. Where in Oz are you?

My Aussie mate and I flatted together in London in the mid 70's. He lives in Seeeedny now.

I am in Melbourne and have been near on 20years!

Apologies for these OT posts…

Back to the regular programming, you will probably notice that most of the MF gear is now made in Taiwan, and from all accounts the quality and sonic signature has been retained.

[NewBuyer]

I think at least some of it is now made in Taiwan? The new A5 gear for instance...

[NewBuyer]

The A5 integrated really does outperform the 308, but the A5 separates outperform the integrated A5. It really boils down to your budget. Musical Fidelity does a great job of offering incremental increases as you go up their ladder of gear...

Brent Huskins
Media Design
HTGuide Sponsor

Well Brent I am going to my dealer and ask them to order the A5cr pre/power separates for me. This should make a really nice two-channel system to last us a little while. Do you think the matching A5 CD player is a "must have" item with this pre/power combo too? If so perhaps I will ask them to order one of those as well...

[bhuskins]

Brent Huskins
Media Design
HTGuide Sponsor

[MICHAEL STRO]

is there a break in period on the mf x-10 v3 tube output buffer. is anyone using one of these.

[bhuskins]

Yes...50-100 hours

Brent Huskins
Media Design
HTGuide Sponsor

[Spearmint]

is there a break in period on the mf x-10 v3 tube output buffer. is anyone using one of these.

Yes there is as Bhuskins says 50~100 hours. When I first got mine the only problem I had for about 10~12hours was a bit of sibilance with some Diana Krall songs, but after this the sibilance was gone.

[MICHAEL STRO]

I feel I kinda here something with mine , but it is brand new. how do you like yours?

[Spearmint]

I feel I kinda here something with mine , but it is brand new. how do you like yours?

I had the same issue with my Benchmark DAC1 when it was new albeit not as bad as the MF unit. Although I found the MF combination of DAC, PSU, & tube buffer had a bit more detail in the bass than the Benchmark, it also tended to be a little muffled in the highs.

[MICHAEL STRO]

yeah I was trying to tone down the brightness in my 703's , it seems to do the job, but I still have some breakin time . the music seems fuller .

[NewBuyer]

Brent, thanks for your kind offer, I already went through my dealer before I saw your reply. I wish I would have seen your reply sooner!

By the way, I have set up the A5 combo and I get a low-volume hum from the speakers (can hear from within 4ft radius of speakers) when the preamp is attached to the amp and powered on. No hum from the amp alone- it only hums when the preamp is attached to the amp with even a single interconnect. The hum does not change with volume control. The only components attached are preamp-amp-speakers. The AC is clean, interconnects are good, and cheater plugs don't help. All the usual culprits for ground-loop have been explored.

My dealer thinks this is normal for the A5 combo. Any ideas?

[bhuskins]

Definitely not normal...

Brent Huskins
Media Design
HTGuide Sponsor

[htran]

Does anyone know where I could get a MF CD-Pre24?

Thanks,
Hai

[David Meek]

Han, here's one listed on AudioGon. It's the only one of three that is left. You might want to check on it fairly quickly...

CD-Pre24

.

[David Meek]

Brent, thanks for your kind offer, I already went through my dealer before I saw your reply. I wish I would have seen your reply sooner!

By the way, I have set up the A5 combo and I get a low-volume hum from the speakers (can hear from within 4ft radius of speakers) when the preamp is attached to the amp and powered on. No hum from the amp alone- it only hums when the preamp is attached to the amp with even a single interconnect. The hum does not change with volume control. The only components attached are preamp-amp-speakers. The AC is clean, interconnects are good, and cheater plugs don't help. All the usual culprits for ground-loop have been explored.

My dealer thinks this is normal for the A5 combo. Any ideas?

I agree with Brent, that is not normal. Are your interconnects shielded? Can you get a different brand/type of interconnect from someone else and try it in your system?

Oh BTW, using cheater plugs in your system should be avoided at all times (other than for testing to eliminate a hum). Once you've isolated the problem - or at least determined it's not a ground issue - immediately remove the cheater.

[NewBuyer]

Definitely not normal... dealer sounds suspect.

Brent Huskins
Media Design
HTGuide Sponsor

Thanks Brent and David for the advice. Yes the interconnects are shielded and I've tried other ones too, the hum is coming from some kind of signal impurity happening within the preamp electronics. The A5 preamp appears to be noisy, although the A5 power amplifier is really outstanding.

I noticed these Musical Fidelity A5 components are actually made in Taiwan, instead of made in England like the older MF equipment. I wonder, does this (potentially) explain the problem? It sure seems like any manufacturers' equipment these days, when made in Taiwan or China, is becoming plagued with hum... (?)

[htran]

Dave, thanks for the link. I've emailed the seller twice but didn't get any response. I'm guessing it has been sold. Is there any alternative compare to the the pre24, a decent cd, dac and preamp for ~ $1000? I've just bought a used pair of N804 and thinking about getting a MF amp. Which is the least expensive used MF amp that could handle the N804 comfortably?

Thanks,
Hai

[David Meek]

Overall, I like the 308 series. The A308CR was the amp driving my Aerial Acoustics 7Bs (86 dB, 4 ohm min) when I auditioned them and the sound was stunning.

I'm not aware of a single-box solution like the Pre-24, so why not look at the A308 Integrated and the A308CR CD player? Together, they'll run a bit more than $1,000 but you can purchase one now and the other a little later once you've built your budget back up.

[K.K.]

kW25

HiFi News mentioned that MF has announced a separate CD and DAC called kW25. Anyone knows anything about this unit?

[Spearmint]

Brent, thanks for your kind offer, I already went through my dealer before I saw your reply. I wish I would have seen your reply sooner!

By the way, I have set up the A5 combo and I get a low-volume hum from the speakers (can hear from within 4ft radius of speakers) when the preamp is attached to the amp and powered on. No hum from the amp alone- it only hums when the preamp is attached to the amp with even a single interconnect. The hum does not change with volume control. The only components attached are preamp-amp-speakers. The AC is clean, interconnects are good, and cheater plugs don't help. All the usual culprits for ground-loop have been explored.

My dealer thinks this is normal for the A5 combo. Any ideas?

Any updates on this problem?

A friend of mine auditioned the A5 pre & power on the weekend at home and noticed the exact same problem. He was also told it is not normal and the problem must be localised to his place. Anyway he has ordered the pigeon pair which should arrive later this week. I mentioned that I would make up some interconnects out of Belden 1694A coax to see if this helps when he gets his new toys home, if the problem exists with the new gear.

[alebonau]

Any updates on this problem?

A friend of mine auditioned the A5 pre & power on the weekend at home and noticed the exact same problem. He was also told it is not normal and the problem must be localised to his place. Anyway he has ordered the pigeon pair which should arrive later this week. I mentioned that I would make up some interconnects out of Belden 1694A coax to see if this helps when he gets his new toys home, if the problem exists with the new gear.

Hi guys, just joined !

I'm spearmints friend above that tried the A5 pre & power at home the weekend just gone.

If interested, you can check the review I did on the pre & power over on the aussie forum

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=25098&view=findpost&p=277598

I think the pre & power are an excellent product. Did come across a touch of hum too during my home demo. The dealer said interconnect should fix the slight hum coming through the speakers and the slight transformer hum he said is charecteristic of the big transformers used in it but a bit of tighttening up might help. I'm hoping when mine come through theres no hum. bhuskins what do you think are my chances ?

Really in all my auditions this combo has turned out best to my liking. There is another great aussie contender the Elektra Reference and its matching tube pre that could have been a great option.

[Spearmint]

Hi guys, just joined !

I'm spearmints friend above that tried the A5 pre & power at home the weekend just gone.

If interested, you can check the review I did on the pre & power over on the aussie forum

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=25098&view=findpost&p=277598

I think the pre & power are an excellent product. Did come across a touch of hum too during my home demo. The dealer said interconnect should fix the slight hum coming through the speakers and the slight transformer hum he said is charecteristic of the big transformers used in it but a bit of tighttening up might help. I'm hoping when mine come through theres no hum. bhuskins what do you think are my chances ?

Really in all my auditions this combo has turned out best to my liking. There is another great aussie contender the Elektra Reference and its matching tube pre that could have been a great option.

Hey Al, welcome aboard :T

Instead of the link, you should post your excellent review on the A5 combo on this board as well.

[alebonau]

no probs here it goes....

Musical Fidelity A5cr 2ch Pre-amplifier and Power Amplifier.

Hmmm following some recommendations from a couple of people I decided to take this pair home this weekend for demo and now I’m smitten !

As some might know my 2ch pre search goes back about 2 years ago when my current 2ch musical fidelity pre was playing up. Fortunately or unfortunately my 2ch pre got fixed up, however in the time I managed to demo some pretty interesting stuff in the $2500-$8000 price range including 2ch integrated amps and pre-power amps. What it highlighted to me very clearly was the importance of a good 2ch pre and the benefits it can bring, plus also the very different sound characteristics of the previous brands, their strengths and in some cases their weaknesses.

My key requirements on the features side for a 2ch pre have been remote control, HT input/HT bypass/HT direct switching to allow my 2ch system to be better integrated into the HT side of my system. Other requirements is a built in MC Phono stage though this wasn’t a essential requirement as could always use a separate unit for this. And lastly for the power amp side of things although still very much in love with my mono blocs have kept the mind open that there might be a better amp stage out there with similar characteristics and better refinement. All of which bringing me to this demo.

My auditioning included :
Part 1 (Friday night) – 2ch listening (CD & vinyl), multichannel music(SACD & DVDA) & watching a movie live on TV.
Part 2 (Saturday) – my usual test DVDs including sections from movies and music DVDs

In summary this combination is a cracker for 2ch music very much in the vein of the musical fidelity sound of old but with much much more refinement. Overall they have an energetic sound thats clean with very good detail, excellent clarity and soundstage all of which making them extremely suitable for HT. I’d see them as the heart of a serious 2ch system or as a very worthy upgrade for anyone looking to move their HT system to maximise 2ch performance without compromise.

The equipment:
Teac CD transport
Rega P25 turntable, musical fidelity phono stage
Musical fidelity valve DAC (circa 1992)
Denon 2900 dvd/universal disc.player
Harman Kardon AVR630 as a pre-pro
Elektra theatre 7 multichannel amp
Teac DVB820 HD stb
Richter Centre and Bipole surrounds, Thor sub & Subsonic rears
Musical Fidelity Pre and two 150W mono blocks driving (L&R)fronts
Mission 753 fronts
Speaker cables - linear crystal(centre), Vandenhul(fronts), cable talk flat(surrounds) & Linear crystal (rears)
Interconnects – Cinema cable vector VI multichannel for in/outs from/to HK AVR630, Jaycar Response interconnects to connect upto 2ch pre. Vandenhul, audioquest & verisilmitude for RCAs and coax interconnets between 2ch gear.

Acknowledgements
Many thanks to Paul & Rab from CAV for lending me the A5cr Pre-Pwr combination to check out at home.

The trial gear
Musical Fidelity A5cr Stereo Pre-Amplifier ($4000)

http://www.carltonaudiovisual.com.au/?q=node/view/346

http://www.musicalfidelity.com/mf/en/Products/A5/a5cr_pre

along with Musical Fidelity A5cr Stereo Power Amplifier ($4000)

http://www.carltonaudiovisual.com.au/?q=node/view/347

http://www.musicalfidelity.com/mf/en/Products/A5/a5cr_pow

Both are extremely smart looking with matt finish anodised aluminium fronts with black side rack handles and black heatsinks and casing combined with silver knobs and buttons and tiny blue leds (quite similar look to the rotel pre/pro-pwrs). Both are heavy(pre 14kg, pwr 19 kg) yet compact chunky looking.

The pre-amp is remote controlled using a quality Alps remote controlled vol control. Key features for me in the Pre are built in MC Phono stage & the very important one a HT bypass/ HT direct input allowing the pre-pwr combination to be integrated with ease into any HT system. To integrate into a HT system front L&R output are run from your HT AVR/pre-pro to the HT input on the A5cr Pre. When the HT input is selected on the A5cr pre the volume control is bypassed and signal from your HT AVR/Pre-pro is sent directly to the A5cr power amp to drive your fronts.

Interestingly the power amp has switchable dual inputs allowing some additional additional possibilities of using two sources though I did not explore that side of things. The power amp has two sets of speaker binding posts for biwiring. Some comparisons with my Elektra theatre 7 is interesting. The mf power amp has less heat sinks and runs a touch warmer than the Elektra theatre 7 but nothing to be worried about. In configuration it has some silmilarities to the Elektra theatre 7 in that both have a large toroidal transformer in the centre. Interestingly both the Elektra & the mf power amp both run the same Sanken amp stages and both bolted directly to the heat sinks either side of the amp. The Elektra uses 2 sanken amp stages per channel the mf uses 8 per channel 16 in total. The mf is spec’d to produce a massive 250Wpc and 200A of current the likes of which my main speakers have never seen before. The Elektra uses top quality nichicon muse capacitors and mf just their standard jamicon ones though has many many more in place than the elektra does. And that’s where the similarities end. To maximise channel separation The mf power amp is fully dual mono – as though it were two mono blocs built into the same case and completely symmetrical in design for the left and right channels.

An important key design feature for the pre and power amps is the ‘cr’ signia indicating they are choke regulated. Something mf has used in their top amps for the last three series to provide noise filteration. To implement this they have two additional power supplies inside the pre and power amps along with the main torroidals.

Both the Pre and pwr amp are made in Taiwan as per all the mf gear now but extremely well built. Could not see any signs of compromise and electrical work that I could see through the lid looked first rate as well. The components used are the same mf used previously with their UK made gear. Good news with the Taiwan made mf gear is the big drop in prices. The model previous model to the A5, the mf A308 pre-pwr for instance, cost $6000 a pop vs the $4000 each that the A5 combo.

The material:
Run Lola Run - title and opening scene using the DD5.1 soundtrack – this movie in the initial opening has good demonstration of low sub bass, spatial information, test of soundstage, projection of sounds, sound pans and vocals.

Morcheeba, Brixton to Beijing concert. DD5.1 track. Track 4 Tape Loop. Good for testing atmospherics, Vocals, a bit of sub plus good workout for the mains & surrounds with the concert and audience.

Master and commander chapter 4 – in DTS the scene with Canon balls is incredible test of sheer impact of a system, bass & sub setup, surround capability and sheer dynamics.

The Village ch 7, 17 & 19 – in DTS ES awesome test of atmosphere, detail, soundstage, scale and dynamics

Family Man – live of digital feed from teac dvb820 HD stb using Logic 7 7.1 decoding off the stereo sound track good test of surround processing, vocals and detail capabilities.

Meshell NdegeOcello – Plantation Lullabies, Tracks 5,6&7 – great mid to low bass, very good detail, vocals and soundstage.
Angelique Kidjo – Oremi, Tracks 10,11 & 12
Nitin Sawhney – Prophesy Tracks 1,2 & 3
plus many more tracks from some of my CDs, SACDs and vinyl :
Bjork – Debut
AIR Moon - Safari
Diana King - Think Like a Girl
Dire Straits – Brothers in Arms (SACD)
Daina Krall – Look of love (CD & SACD)
John Lee Hooker – The Healer
Enya – shepherd Moons & Water mark
Beth Orton – Central Reservations
Eric Bibb – Spirit of the blues (SACD)
Sade – Promise (Vinyl)
St Germain – Tourist (Vinyl)

Part 1 – (Friday night) – 2ch listening (CD & vinyl), multichannel music(SACD & DVDA) & watching a movie live on TV.

I’m a big 2ch fan and if buying these amps 2ch would be the no 1 reason so best thought I’d check that out first. I decided to start things off simply. Unhooked my existing mf pre and mono blocks and swapped them with the A5 pre-power. Hmmm noticed a very slight hum coming from the power amps toroidal and also a tiny bit of a hum coming out the fronts not significant but I would have preferred it if it wasn’t there !. Tried taking power off different sockets and also moving interconnects but the slight hum remained. Anyways after that I left the system powered and coasting for the next hour.

Listened to some CDs from 6pm Friday evening and First up I put in Enya’s watermark on CD. First thing that hit me was I was swamped with sound – the room filled with sound to the extremities. Second thing I noticed was the extended bass- I could hear it and feel it. Next up very noticeable the extended highs and clarity with which I could hear details – very noticeable with vocals for instance where I could hear inflections and textures never heard before.

Swapped to Diana king’s think like a girl CD – a very dynamic CD with a great bass line. I’d been listening with the pre’s vol control at the quarter to mark (around 60db). Decided to bump it up to the ‘10 to’ mark (70-80db). Beautiful dynamics, still extremely clean, love the bass line – there were sections where bass wafts through the room which I don’t think I’ve experienced on my system before. What I like about the bass is its there to be heard and felt but not overpowering. With the Diana king CD there are things going on everywhere and much more distinctly placed with the A5 combo whereas they sort of blend in to the mix with my old mf pre-power.

Followed up with a few more of my favourite CDs and then coming close to 8:30pm so thought probably time to hook up the A5 combo for HT. Ran two RCAs from analog outputs from my AVR straight to the HT input on A5 pre. Selected HT on the A5 pre Ran test tone on the Avr found had to drop level for the mains from +4 down to –5.

Watched ‘Family Man’ on ch9 using Logic 7 processing of the mpeg soundtrack. With my Elektra theatre 7 driving my centre, surrounds and rears and the A5 driving the fronts, impressions were vocals clean and clear, good pans across the screen. The A5 seemed to blend in pretty well without any clash in the sound between the centre or the mains or other speakers. During one of the breaks I swapped to the ‘we were soldiers’ movie going on another channel first thing I noticed was soundstage across the front – height seemed a bit more width about the same as with my mono blocs.

After the movie back to more CDs and then did some listening with vinyl to check out the A5 pre’s inbuilt phono stage. I was happy to find the built in phono stage is a step above my old mf phono stage. Quite enjoyed both the Sade and the St Germain records I played through. Had a richer sound to what I’m used to, cleaner much more enjoyable listening overall.

By this time it was about 2:15am and thought time for bed. God knows what the wife thinks is up with me being up so late but fortunately she was busy too working on the computer and most likely completely forgotten about me !. Decided to leave the amps on overnight so all warm and ready to go in the morning……

Part 2 (Saturday) – my usual test DVDs including sections from movies and music DVDs
After a bit of a sleep in, Saturday morning decided to check out some music and movies on DVDs after all the mains are a big part of the HT sound so important to check out the A5 in HT.

First up was Morcheeba, love this music DVD have listened/watched it many times. For me the one stand out with the A5’s in the system was front soundstage height definitely higher than with my mono blocs. Also noticed could quite happily crank it up without it starting to sound on edge or hard which I sometimes find with my old mono blocs. Certainly very clean sounding and yes very enjoyable. Particularly liked the high soundstage and the big ‘being there’ sound that I like.

Next up one of my recent favourites ‘The village’. Starting with ch 7 where the male lead walks beyond the boundaries of the village and enters the forest. Cranked it up to –15db and ohboy the atmosphere – and for the first time I actually realised the sound track creating the atmosphere is an actual orchestra with real instruments – had always thought it just electronic before. As the male lead walks in upto the red bush the snapping of twigs on the forest floor to the left and the growl & breathing from the unseen beast is superb. Also great is the waft or gushes of wind that go through as the beast appears to move out of scene. Superb scene for testing it all out atmosphere, detail, soundstage, scale and dynamics. Next up ch 17 and 19 also great as tests of dynamics and can make you jump especially if you haven’t seen it before. I didn’t make me jump, but was pretty happy with the dynamics there.

Next up Master and commander the opening scenes love the creaking of the ship all around you. Also noticed the sound of everything swaying infront of you with the swaying of the ship. The canon ball scene does not seem to have lost any of the impact or sheer dynamics and energy with this combo.

Finally tested Run Lola Run – the opening scene which still has the beaut effect of the wind draft of the pendulum swaying side to side and the steering and panning effects and test of vocals. With the casino scene had a listen to the ball going around and it still goes all around the room and lola’s scream still has all the shrieking energy I remember.

Some conclusions
The HT input works like a dream, and makes it very easy to integrate into any HT system. The remote control for switiching and vol control is a good addition for me as is the built in MC phono stage which is of superior quality ot my mf outboard stage.

Apart from the hum issue which hopefully is just installation related, both the A5 pre & pwr are extremely well built. The power amp runs a little warmer than say the Elektra but not hot and looking at the quality of the workmanship looks like something that would take me through another decade as my previous mf pre-pwr setup has.

The A5 combo is beaut for music with its clean, detailed & open, energetic sound and has a character very well suited to home theatre. Whether the sound characteristic is to your liking I cannot say and you will have to find out for your self. For me they suit me very well for HT and music and a good upgrade from my mf pre & mono-blocs I love so much.

PS check the link below for a pic of the A5 pre-pwr as I had in place for the demo.

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=25106&view=findpost&p=277726

[David Meek]

Hi Al, welcome to The Guide. :welcome:

One note: Your last link (to the pic) is broken. Can you correct it? Thanks.

Also, I'm not that familiar with the Mission 753 speakers other than that they are floorstanders. Could you describe them sonically in more detail? Very nice review BTW.

[Spearmint]

One note: Your last link (to the pic) is broken. Can you correct it? Thanks.

Until Al fixes the link I will put the photo here for viewing.

Al you might also like to post some pictures of speakers.

[alebonau]

Hi Al, welcome to The Guide. :welcome:

One note: Your last link (to the pic) is broken. Can you correct it? Thanks.

Also, I'm not that familiar with the Mission 753 speakers other than that they are floorstanders. Could you describe them sonically in more detail? Very nice review BTW.

Thankyou for the welcome David, I've fixed the link - not sure what happened there

Spearmint thanks for posting the pic in the mean time

David below are a couple of pics on the mission 753 including a cutaway on it.

Its a 2.5 way speaker. About 10years or so old. Pretty much when mission was in full flight. Its the predecessor to their now replaced 783. I think mission have lost the plot a bit of late with their more recent speakers.

Its pretty un-english in its charecter. Certainly not polite or reticent like some english speakers. Its closest to probably the B&W speaker kind of sound.

It seems to have aged pretty well, has great soundstage, clean, open very revealing speaker. In typical mission fashion needs to run close up to the back wall to use it to re-enforce the low end. Like B&Ws some might call it bright or forward but I'd call it just lively or energetic !.

hope that helps.

[David Meek]

Do you have any problems with heat generation with the shelf that close above the amp?

I was doing a bit of poking around and found that the 753's are rated at 4 ohms, 89 dB, rolling of at about 40 Hz. A bit more efficient than my Aerial 7Bs (4 ohms, 86 dB, 35 Hz). Rats - I was hoping they were a similar load for the amp.

[alebonau]

Do you have any problems with heat generation with the shelf that close above the amp?

I was doing a bit of poking around and found that the 753's are rated at 4 ohms, 89 dB, rolling of at about 40 Hz. A bit more efficient than my Aerial 7Bs (4 ohms, 86 dB, 35 Hz). Rats - I was hoping they were a similar load for the amp.

hi david,

the mf A5 pwr amp is on the right in the pic spearmint posted for me. its sitting on top of my amp rack and in free air no shelf above. Below it is my elektra multichannel HT amp. The A5 pwr amp runs a little warmer than the elektra but certainly does not run warm enough or hot that it would be a worry.

Perhaps your looking at the A5 pre that sits in the shelf with the glass front. I moved my dac to the shelf below and shoe horned the pre into the spot for the demo - there was about 10mm clear above it. The pre has no ventilation slots and uses its casing for any heat dissipation. Kept an eye during the entire demo checking incase it warmed up - it stayed dead cold. For piece of mind once installed for everyday use I'd still either move the shelf for the transport up a notch or drop the shelf the pres on a notch down giving it plenty of space.

I have the 753s - the model after the plain 753. It was followed up with the 753f or freedom where they sucked the life out of the 753s by replacing its metal dome tweeter with a silk dome. The 753 was just not quite the same speaker after that - bit of a tooth less tiger !. Very glad I got the 753s when I did !

Not sure which model 753 you have the specs for. Mine checking the manual are rolling off at 45hz, 6ohm and sensitivity of 90db. spearmint you might be interested given our discussion sunday - its crossover is at 2.1khz.

David I honestly think when your getting into this sort of league of amp, I think it can just about drive anything especially given the 200A of current it can put out and its capable of 416w at 4ohms. Its also 2 ohm capable putting out a massive 600w. I don't think its wanting or would struggle in that department just depends and comes down to whether the sound charecter is to your liking or not when it comes to this kind of stuff.

[NewBuyer]

Brent, thanks for your kind offer, I already went through my dealer before I saw your reply. I wish I would have seen your reply sooner!

By the way, I have set up the A5 combo and I get a low-volume hum from the speakers (can hear from within 4ft radius of speakers) when the preamp is attached to the amp and powered on. No hum from the amp alone- it only hums when the preamp is attached to the amp with even a single interconnect. The hum does not change with volume control. The only components attached are preamp-amp-speakers. The AC is clean, interconnects are good, and cheater plugs don't help. All the usual culprits for ground-loop have been explored.

My dealer thinks this is normal for the A5 combo. Any ideas?

Any updates on this problem?

A friend of mine auditioned the A5 pre & power on the weekend at home and noticed the exact same problem. He was also told it is not normal and the problem must be localised to his place. Anyway he has ordered the pigeon pair which should arrive later this week. I mentioned that I would make up some interconnects out of Belden 1694A coax to see if this helps when he gets his new toys home, if the problem exists with the new gear.

Hi Spearmint,

I returned the A5cr preamp but kept the A5 power amp. The A5cr preamp produces the hum you can hear from the speakers. I consider this a design flaw in the A5cr preamp, and I was really disappointed. While some may find the hum to be something they can live with, nevertheless I personally have a huge pet-peeve with any hum or buzz through the speakers and could not live with it for that kind of money.

We tried several other high-end preamps paired with the A5cr power amplifier, and none of the other preamps produced hum from the speakers - they were all silent, even with their volumes maxed with a paused source. Only the A5cr preamp hummed. We tried a full range of different interconnects and the hum remained identically regardless of interconnect quality or configuration. Like I said above, the AC is clean-as-a-whistle and there is no ground loop either. We even tried different speakers, including some with extremely low sensitivity, and the hum was still identically there. Conclusion: The A5cr preamp is just a noisy component.

However, I learned something truly remarkable from all of this (well at least to me that is). I ordered and tried some of Scott Endler's excellent Stepped Attenuators from Endler Audio. They attach directly to your amp. To my amazement, they sounded so incredibly better than any of the preamps that all of us were simply stunned. The improvement was so significant that it made all of my CD's sound like they were completely different recordings. We could hardly believe our ears! Way, WAY better sound than when the A5cr preamp was being used, even if the A5cr preamp had not hummed. So, I have the luxury of using these outstanding Stepped Attenuators while I take my time and casually shop around for another high-end preamp. I might not want any preamp ever again after using these little gadgets.

The A5cr power amplifier is another story completely however. This amplifier is simply breathtaking - it gives the best amplification I've ever heard, absolutely clean and distortion free. The bass is so clean that, like one reviewer said, you at first might be fooled into thinking that it is "bass-shy" - but then you realize that the bass you are hearing is just so clean and undistorted and you just aren't used to hearing it that way. The A5cr power amp has the speed of a smaller power amp with all the guts and unlimited power of the real beast amps, and its sound quality is best-of-class in my opinion. I've heard a lot of systems and amps recently, including others more expensive than the A5cr power amp, but nothing else even came close to the A5cr power amp in sound quality. It's a keeper, and in a completely different league than the A5cr preamp in my opinion. I really like its dual-input feature, and it has RCA outputs as well (how many other amps have that feature) and also dual speaker binding posts. So you can, for instance, feed a powered subwoofer from either the amp's RCA line-outs or from the amp's extra speaker-level posts, or else find other uses for these extra outputs (e.g. biwiring, biamping, etc). Extremely functional, 2-ohm stable, top-of-the-line build quality, and like I said above, stunning sound quality.

Thanks for reading this.

[alebonau]

thanks for posting new buyer. intersting on the A5 pre. bit dissapointing to read it. Am going to do a thorough check into the hum issue before picking up from the dealer.

I actually spoke to the dealer today again and got comfirmation that should be getting no hum at all and agreed for peace of mind to set up the new amps when they come in so I can check for myself and be sure before I pick them up.

I'm taking in my interconnects I was using to check them out too just incase theyre suspect.

I must add my particular setup is an absolute dissaster for given all the gear I've got packed in the area and cables of all discription running in very close proximity so quite as likely an issue for my setup. Setting up simply at the dealer with just the bare components plus just a cd player and a pair of speaker should tell me one way or the other whether the hum is an issue.

bhuskins any comment on the above ? it appears you do retail the A5 pre-pwr ?

re the quality of the A5 pre to be honest apart from the hum really quite impressed by it actually in regards detail, soundstage(height width & depth), resolving capability which are the hall mark of a good pre.

[Spearmint]

Thanks Newbuyer, for the reply, and thank you for posting your thoughts and review on the AC pre & power.

Like you one of my pet hates is HUM or BUZZ of any description.

Al it looks like you will need to check the A5 pre and do a compare with the demo model in the shop to see if both or only the demo unit has the problem, but I suggest you try and replicate the problem with the demo unit first before testing your unit.

[alebonau]

Thanks Newbuyer, for the reply, and thank you for posting your thoughts and review on the AC pre & power.

Like you one of my pet hates is HUM or BUZZ of any description.

Al it looks like you will need to check the A5 pre and do a compare with the demo model in the shop to see if both or only the demo unit has the problem, but I suggest you try and replicate the problem with the demo unit first before testing your unit.

yes good thought in checkign the demo model out while I'm at it.

[alebonau]

Hi guys,

Just an update. The amps came in to the dealer today. Just been over for the last couple of hours to pickup and also check out the hum issue.

Got the dealer to pre set it up for me. Which they did to a pair of dynaudio confidence C1 speakers and to an arcam CD player and had it coasting for about an hour before I got there.

Power amp was warmed up well when I got there. They were using their usual shielded power cables to the amps. Plus chord cable company interconnect and speaker cables.

With all equipment hooked up but with CD player stopped playing :

First thing checked the power amp for hum. Put my ear right to the top grill of it no hum that I could hear, pretty happy about that one.

Checked the speakers, there was a very tiny bit of hum coming out the woofer if you put your ear right to it but absolutely no hiss at all. Hum level well well lower than what I remember in my setup. Thought then perhaps my setup more susceptible to hum or interconnects I’d used or maybe perhaps it’s the demo amp? Also wondering my speaker more sensitive than the dynaudio ? making hum more perceptible ? also my 753 has a lot of mid/low range drivers too.

Anyway we raised the vol control on the pre to 75% and the very small bit of hum did not increase and no hiss.

Unplugging the pre from the power and the speakers are dead silent.

Hooking back up again, tried a few different interconnects changed the sound of the hum a tad but did not go away. Tried my interconnect and unless you moved mine right past the power cable the hum did not increase. Thinking my rca goes right past the power amp power cable in my setup so perhaps that’s accentuating level ?. Maybe need a better RCA

Anyway swapped to the demo A5 pre I had borrowed, similar level of very slight hum, no hiss at any vol level. So that rules out that might be the demo pre being the issue.

Decided to swap to another pre. Swapped to mf X-pre V3 and a tiny bit of hum and a bit of hiss. With hiss louder than the hum. Raising vol control and hiss increases, hum stays the same.

Tried also a sim audio moon pre, less hiss than the X-pre v3, don’t think I can hear hum but hiss increases as you raise vol control.

All listening was with ear right to the speaker, with any of the pre’s the hissing or the hum not detectable as you move away. Well the hiss probably more noticeable than the hum anyway. Pretty impressed the pre-pwr does not hiss at all.

Dealer decided to ring mf importer at this stage who is goign to inform mf and talk to them tonight about it. Said he was happy to swap the unit but probably no point given the demo and the new unit pretty much showed the same. Also suggested some other things to try – eg different inputs on pre and pwr and also using a two pin IEC as well just incase a ground loop issue. And absolutely no noise on switching.

So that’s the long and short of it. For me decided to go with the combo. Whether the very very slight bit of hum is a problem or not you will need to decide for your self.

I think I do need to do a bit of work with my system hum wise. I get a tiny bit out my centre speaker as well and that’s coming via a different pre-pwr combo. Need to re-look at the way my cables are run, have no idea what to do there as have cables of every description running through the one narrow spot about 75-100mm wide.

Anyways after all that decided to have a listen to the dynaudio/arcam setup with the mf. Well even though the dynaudio conficence C1 is a $10,000 speaker not that impressed and the arcam well heaps of detail and all that but too thin/lean for my liking. So there you go system matching is an important thing !

Can’t wait to get it home to hook up !.

[alebonau]

well its home and all setup and in-place and going and all I can say is

Nice ! Nice !

[norpus]

Nice work Al
Has your other half noticed/sanctioned the small babies yet?

[alebonau]

Nice work Al
Has your other half noticed/sanctioned the small babies yet?

hehehe funny you mention that !

another one flying under the radar there ! :W

one day I'll be sprung...though last time she saw somethign new she just thought it was from the stuff 'I had to pack away' from when I had to give up my music room for the baby room :lol:

[Spearmint]

well its home and all setup and in-place and going and all I can say is

Nice ! Nice !

I take it from your post you don’t have any of the issues that you had with the demo unit?

If so that is excellent news!!! ENJOY!

[alebonau]

I take it from your post you don’t have any of the issues that you had with the demo unit?

If so that is excellent news!!! ENJOY!

detail and soundstage is already out of box very good spearmint and sounding very nice. Though I think with a bit of time sure to only improve as it runs in.

The hum issue interestingly at home seems non existent with the HT input but a tad of hiss and hum of my old dac, if you put your ear close to the speaker, so perhaps some of this is input related.

Anyways I'm pretty happy, sitting back and taking in the tunes.

[NewBuyer]

Great news Al. By the way, the HT input is the input that bypasses the preamp circuitry, right? I ask this because if so, then as you said, the hiss/hum from the other input(s) is still most likely coming from the preamp...

[ironchef]

Thanks to everyone on the southern hemisphere for the input on the A5 line! Very helpful to potential purchasers as real-world experience is hard to come by.

I had the opportunity to hear the A5 integrated a couple of weeks ago. I was at my local dealer looking for upgrades to my Rotel integrated. I was pretty sure that I was looking for higher powered Rotel separates, and had auditioned pre and power amps at 130W and 200W, with a pair of beautiful B&W 804s. I was very ompressed with the RB-1080, until they decided to roll in the A5 integrated to characterize the signature differences between the Rotel and MF. Wow. Like entering a new dimension that I was unaware existed.

The dynamics opened up compared to the Rotels, and became more 'alive' sounding. Closing my eyes, not only the walls disappeared, but also the floor. When the vocals came in, however, I felt strangely distant from the singer. The Rotels were not as refined as the MF, but put me in a closer seat to the performance.

Is this consistent with anyone's experience? Is this something that will improve as the amp 'breaks in'? Are the MFs better for classical and jazz, but fall down on the rock and roll front?

I am very tempted to purchase the A5 and the matching CD player, but it is a significant outlay of the hard-earned currency ($6500 CDN for both), and I would love any input.

[alebonau]

Thanks to everyone on the southern hemisphere for the input on the A5 line! Very helpful to potential purchasers as real-world experience is hard to come by.

I had the opportunity to hear the A5 integrated a couple of weeks ago. I was at my local dealer looking for upgrades to my Rotel integrated. I was pretty sure that I was looking for higher powered Rotel separates, and had auditioned pre and power amps at 130W and 200W, with a pair of beautiful B&W 804s. I was very ompressed with the RB-1080, until they decided to roll in the A5 integrated to characterize the signature differences between the Rotel and MF. Wow. Like entering a new dimension that I was unaware existed.

The dynamics opened up compared to the Rotels, and became more 'alive' sounding. Closing my eyes, not only the walls disappeared, but also the floor. When the vocals came in, however, I felt strangely distant from the singer. The Rotels were not as refined as the MF, but put me in a closer seat to the performance.

Is this consistent with anyone's experience? Is this something that will improve as the amp 'breaks in'? Are the MFs better for classical and jazz, but fall down on the rock and roll front?

I am very tempted to purchase the A5 and the matching CD player, but it is a significant outlay of the hard-earned currency ($6500 CDN for both), and I would love any input.

hi ironchef,

I did a fair bit of demoing of the rotel pre-pwr amps understand what your saying re the charecter of the rotels compared to say mf.

Yes the mf sound compared to the rotels would be like taking a veil off and entering a new world ! :P Can't say I can say I find the vocals on the mf distant ? perhaps the mf has a better sense of depth that takes the vocals out for the particualr track you mentioned ?

I only did one instore demo of the A5 integrated and then followed it up with a listen to the A5 pre-pwr - which probably was a mistake !.

The A5 integrated is a very fine amp with great soundstage, detail and a overall sound that is refined with the charecteristic mf openess. I for one felt it was more about delicacy, texture and detail. Probably a touch polite for my liking.

The A5 pre pwr is actually quite different sounding. Yes has the charectersitic mf openess, great soundstage, very refined with good detail and texture. But has a much more solid, big & grippy sound to it. This pair is more an all-rounder, I found it to be exactly my cup of tea !

[ironchef]

Thanks Alebonau. I decided to go back and give the A5 and A3.5 line another serious listen. After much A-B listening, I felt the A5 did not justify the added expense, and walked out with the A3.5 integrated and disc player. I think this pair is an excellent value. The amps actually sound very similar, the A5 just has more ease with the bass, and effortlessness that comes with 250wpc. I live in an apartment, however, so I don't think I could really take advantage of it. The CD players are miles apart, however. The A5 has a distinct tube-y sound, with enormous richness and saturation of tone. I felt that the A3.5 was more neutral for my tastes, and actually liked it better.

I'm listening as I write this, with a big smile on my face. All of the things that troubled me about the Rotels that they replaced are gone (sometime digital 'glare', muddled stage) and I love what's replaced it.

Funny, but I just plugged everything in about 2 hours ago, and it's even starting to sound better, will this continue? How long is the break in period? Honestly, I can't imagine it improving.

[alebonau]

Thanks Alebonau. I decided to go back and give the A5 and A3.5 line another serious listen. After much A-B listening, I felt the A5 did not justify the added expense, and walked out with the A3.5 integrated and disc player. I think this pair is an excellent value. The amps actually sound very similar, the A5 just has more ease with the bass, and effortlessness that comes with 250wpc. I live in an apartment, however, so I don't think I could really take advantage of it. The CD players are miles apart, however. The A5 has a distinct tube-y sound, with enormous richness and saturation of tone. I felt that the A3.5 was more neutral for my tastes, and actually liked it better.

I'm listening as I write this, with a big smile on my face. All of the things that troubled me about the Rotels that they replaced are gone (sometime digital 'glare', muddled stage) and I love what's replaced it.

Funny, but I just plugged everything in about 2 hours ago, and it's even starting to sound better, will this continue? How long is the break in period? Honestly, I can't imagine it improving.

great to hear you got the A3.5 CD and integrated. Haven't demoed either to be honest but Yep a pretty good option I'd say and no slouch on the power side either. Also comes with the HT bypass input which is really great if integrating 2ch with HT.

interesting to read your comments on the A5cd vs the A3.5 CD player.

Very glad to hear its all bringing a smile to your face too !

With run in I'm noticing bass more solid and also on voices and on some sounds there more smoothening over the last week or too.

No idea how long the break in preiod is but based on advice on other amps I'm leaving on 24/7 for the first month and using as much as I can hehehe

best part I like about the A5 pre-pwr so far is just the unbelievable clarity. Its as if theres absolutely nothing between you and the music. Love the improvement of soundstage over my previous power stage as also the improvement in refinement.

What I've most noticed is the huge improvemnt with vinyl. Must have a really much better built in mc phone stage than my old standalone mf unit as sounds much better with detail, especially soundstage and the overall sound. A real bonus that as was really only expecting the built in phone stage to benefit me was for convenience(less cables, one less box).

By the way the A5 pwr can get a bit warm ! or is it that were having warmer weather here in melbourne. Not hot as in too hot to touch but yes warm that you'd notice it if you put your hand on the top of the heatsinks. My mains must be giving it a good work out. Either that or I'm jsut enjoying cranking it up.

To be honest probably been going a lot higher in listening levels than ever have before with my previous amp as jsut so much easier to listen to.

On home theatre the greater detail coming through my mains is great as is the greater refinement here too can easily listen at higher levels without finding it getting a bit rough. Beauty on the other side too is can easily listen at lower levels and get a lot more dynamics coming through.

All up extremely happy myself with the upgrade. Do wonder too how much better it can get as it runs in further.

[dartmouth12]

MF vs ROTEL

Well guys you've forced me into a bit of a corner here - seems obvious to me that I need to audition the Rotel pre-power combo vs the MF A3.5. I've been looking at the Rotel RC/RB 1070 pair but based on all your discussion it would appear I need to get my dealer to order in the A3.5 with a view to purchase if it lives up to expectations. He stocks the Rotels as standard. Retail 850 UK pounds for the Rotel pair vs 1000 for the MF - it would seem silly not to shell out the extra dough. Thanks for the great discussion - very enlightening.