Club Musical Fidelity

[KEN]

X-Dac V3 INPUT

hi guys... Im a newbie I have the MF Xv3 small series combi(XPSU/XDAC/X10) and got some question.

My CDP RC-02 is connected (via digital coax) ->XDAC ->(via analog)X10 ->(via analog) preamp->(via analog)power amp->speaker.

Now I want to connect my HT AV/receiver and DVD player to it. Can I connect my AV receiver digital out(toslink) or the DVD digital out(toslink)to XDAC toslink input at the same time the CDP is connected to XDAC coax input ? The purpose is to have the same main speaker for both audio and HT listening.

TIA

[alebonau]

hi guys... Im a newbie I have the MF Xv3 small series combi(XPSU/XDAC/X10) and got some question.

My CDP RC-02 is connected (via digital coax) ->XDAC ->(via analog)X10 ->(via analog) preamp->(via analog)power amp->speaker.

Now I want to connect my HT AV/receiver and DVD player to it. Can I connect my AV receiver digital out(toslink) or the DVD digital out(toslink)to XDAC toslink input at the same time the CDP is connected to XDAC coax input ? The purpose is to have the same main speaker for both audio and HT listening.

TIA

ken you can't integrate your 2ch setup and ht setup the way your trying to do here.

you need to either swap your 2ch pre for one with a HT input/HT bypass or swap your power amp for one with twin inputs (check out my review of the musical fidelity A5 pre-power above that has those features)

alternatively you can do as I did for quite a few years integrating your 2ch pre by merely using an analog input on it to accept your HT feed for your fronts and use the vol control at a predetermined position for all HT listening. Check my post here on another forum that went into a bit of detail.

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=16403&view=findpost&p=176374

Post back if you got any questions happy to help.

[KEN]

hi thanks for your reply...

Presently I'm doing it similarly

DVD->AVR, AVR pre L/R ->Aux pre:
:->amp
CDP->XDAC->X10-------->CD pre :

but I'm just wondering if I can utilize the MF xdac/x10 for the HT operation, since the xdac has 2 input something like this:

DVD->AVR, AVR toslink out->Xdac:
:X10->pre->amp
CDP coax--------------------->Xdac:


TIA

ken you can't integrate your 2ch setup and ht setup the way your trying to do here.

you need to either swap your 2ch pre for one with a HT input/HT bypass or swap your power amp for one with twin inputs (check out my review of the musical fidelity A5 pre-power above that has those features)

alternatively you can do as I did for quite a few years integrating your 2ch pre by merely using an analog input on it to accept your HT feed for your fronts and use the vol control at a predetermined position for all HT listening. Check my post here on another forum that went into a bit of detail.

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=16403&view=findpost&p=176374

Post back if you got any questions happy to help.

[alebonau]

hi thanks for your reply...

Presently I'm doing it similarly

DVD->AVR, AVR pre L/R ->Aux pre:
:->amp
CDP->XDAC->X10-------->CD pre :

but I'm just wondering if I can utilize the MF xdac/x10 for the HT operation, since the xdac has 2 input something like this:

DVD->AVR, AVR toslink out->Xdac:
:X10->pre->amp
CDP coax--------------------->Xdac:


TIA

you can't do that ken as you would then not be using your avr to do any processing to determine what should be sent to your fronts for HT. As you are bypassing processing by sending the digital signal via mf dac to 2ch pre. Why is it that you want to run your system in that fashion ?

How your doing it currently is really the only way of integrating a 2ch system that drives your fronts into a HT system. Other method as I mentioned involves using a pwr amp as in the mf A5cr pwr that has dual inputs.

[KEN]

you can't do that ken as you would then not be using your avr to do any processing to determine what should be sent to your fronts for HT. As you are bypassing processing by sending the digital signal via mf dac to 2ch pre. Why is it that you want to run your system in that fashion ?

How your doing it currently is really the only way of integrating a 2ch system that drives your fronts into a HT system. Other method as I mentioned involves using a pwr amp as in the mf A5cr pwr that has dual inputs.

thanks alebonau, I'm new on this things. Kindly correct me if I'm wrong... if I connect my DVD to AVR would it not be the AVR doing the decoding/processing ?

would it be possible to let my separate preamp/amp drive the main L/R ch (by connecting the AVR digital output/toslink to my XDAC/x10 then ->dedicated preamp->amp) and let the AVR drive the rear L/R and center ch ?

while my CDP connects to the XDAC/X10 via coax

TIA

[alebonau]

thanks alebonau, I'm new on this things. Kindly correct me if I'm wrong... if I connect my DVD to AVR would it not be the AVR doing the decoding/processing ?

yes thats right avr would process the dvds digital signal provided if connected up via spdif coax or optical and send the appropriate signal to the speakers hooked up or via its pre-out analog outputs.

would it be possible to let my separate preamp/amp drive the main L/R ch (by connecting the AVR digital output/toslink to my XDAC/x10 then ->dedicated preamp->amp) and let the AVR drive the rear L/R and center ch ?

while my CDP connects to the XDAC/X10 via coax

TIA

unfortunately when you do that, your sending an unprocessed digital signal to the xdac, x10 combo and since it does not have a processor built in the same as your avr - its not going to know what is L&R signal, whats .1 or whats to go to the centre or rears. It will send the full unprocessed signal out to your main L/R channels while at the same time your avr will be processing the same digital signal sending appropriate signal to the rest of the speakers. Not goign to work I'm afraid, you can't send a full unprocessed signal to your mains and use the processor on the avr to only decode for the rest.

[KEN]

Thanks alebonau... now I understand, its really nice to have forums like this.

unfortunately when you do that, your sending an unprocessed digital signal to the xdac, x10 combo and since it does not have a processor built in the same as your avr - its not going to know what is L&R signal, whats .1 or whats to go to the centre or rears. It will send the full unprocessed signal out to your main L/R channels while at the same time your avr will be processing the same digital signal sending appropriate signal to the rest of the speakers. Not goign to work I'm afraid, you can't send a full unprocessed signal to your mains and use the processor on the avr to only decode for the rest.

[ironchef]

I know this forum has gotten pretty stale, but hey, maybe there is some life in it yet.

Just wanted to fill other MF people in on my experiences with the A3.5 line. In short, the CD player is almost not functioning any longer. When it was brand new (3-4 months ago), it sometimes appeared to get confused when starting up, and was slow to load discs. Well now, it needs to be rebooted regularly, as it seems to freeze.

The integrated A3.5 will not switch to AUX1 when in CD mode. I can always take a detour to AUX2 to get there, but this does not inspire confidence! If only one unit had problems, I would be more understanding, but both units, I am skeptical that this is isolated.

They still sound good, and I hate to give them up. The width of the stage on the player is amazing. I am giving them up, however, as I have no confidence that they will outlive their warranty by any stretch, and I believe that MF is falling down on the QC. I am returning both to the shop, and trading in for other gear, probably Classe.

[tomm]

Hi guys, hi al, spearmint
This is my first post on this forum although i have been posting on Club Rotel for a few months. i am looking at an a5 integrated which al suggested and i am curious on build quality and reliability and general comments. Anyone seen this unit?
Cheers
PunkJr

[ironchef]

I think the A5 sounds very good. I listened to it side by side with the 3.5, and they are very similar. The 5 has a more substantial bottom end, and a little more spatiality. More ease with the dynamics. All of the current lline of MF kit, to my ears, has enormous stage, which is why I bought it.

As per my previous post, I can't recommend it's build quality however. If you compare the current A series with previous iterations, you'll notice that the 308, and 3.2 are more solidly constructed, the look and feel are more considered. The selector buttons on the A5 are kinda flimsy and cheap. I'm not really a fan of the ship's wheel volume knob, either, but that's a matter of taste.

The bottom line is that it's really nice sounding stuff, albeit a bit soft-sounding. If your taste is jazz and classical, it may well be worth the risk. If you're a rock lover, I would advise that you keep looking, there is so much out there.

[tomm]

Thanks ironchef. I do love jazz and classical so it might be well worth an audition.

[926am]

integrated amp recommendations

Hello, I am new to this forum :clap: . I am looking for an integrated amp. Listening mostly to rock and some jazz what are some recommendations. I was thinking of the afformentioned A5 or 3.5 but you suggest there are better alternatives.

[GregLett]

A5 CD player

Does anyone here have the A5? What are your thoughts?

[bhuskins]

Get the GCC-250 or 500 from PS Audio...much better performer.

[GregLett]

Get the GCC-250 or 500 from PS Audio...much better performer.

Are those CD players? I don't see them.

[nektarios]

Trivista 21 DAC, 96/192KHz differences, possible effects of Digital Out

To any Trivista 21 DAC owners - I need your help!

My system is the following: MF XRay V3 + Trivista 21 DAC + MF X-150 + Monitor Audio S6

Equipment placed on a Clearlight Aspekt RDC Rack.

I have the above system for less than two years and I am really happy with the impressive music, realism, and three dimensionality of the instruments themselves not just the soundstage. During my listening sessions I have noticed the following sonic differences between 96 and 192KHz processing:

192KHz
Bass tighter, firm and focused (hitting the chest kind of), vocals slightly recessed and drier, highs have a really high pitch but smooth - sounds from high hats and drums sound really metallic like the real thing.

96KHz
Bass more ambient and spread out, vocals more evident with more air, highs can sound harsher but bell sounds, metal strokes, guitar chords tend to last longer - this may give the impression that the 96KHz has more detail than 192.

The most evident difference when switching from 96 to 192 KHz is that the sound gets a higher pitch, it becomes slightly thinner, but sounds crystal clearer.


Now, having all equipment switched off, I connected the Digital Out of the DAC to my AV Receiver. I still had the analogue audio of the DAC connected to the X-150 amp. When I listened to music the sound was completely different: all base, middle, and highs became very evident like being in more or less the same level sound wise. Switching between 96 - 192 KHz made no difference to the sound.

I switched off everything, disconnected the cable from the digital out, switched everything back on again and the familiar refined sound of the Trivista DAC was back.

I did this experiment a couple more times and came to the conclusion that to listen to the Trivista sound the Digital Out should be disconnected.

It is at that point I tried to do an A/B kind of test. Assuming it was safe to do so, while the DAC was playing, I connected the Digital out cable on the DAC (the other end was already connected to the switched off AV Receiver) and then after a few seconds I pulled it out again. That was really bad though because since then, the DAC plays only in that "signal line out" kind of mode (the signal fed in to the digital input?) and 96 or 192 KHz has no effect to the sound.

In this weird mode instruments sound flat with no texture info, especially violins, saxophones, and most wind instruments. As if the processing is left out or bypassed.

MF engineers did their frequency and some other tests and cannot find any problem with it. I explained the problem better, so they are going to have a 2nd look. To me the DAC now just sounds loud and cheerful with not the same resolution as before and after a while I get ear fatigue. There seems to be some kind of processing bypass as this sound is not the same neither with the 96 nor with the 192 KHz modes I am used to. If the DAC is supposed to have this signal when Digital Out is connected, then maybe some little component or resistor got damaged and thinks a cable is always connected to the Digital Out? I have no clue.

What are your experiences? Differences between 96 - 192KHz? Could you try connecting the Digital Out to a receiver and see if the DAC's sonic signature changes? You need to use a digital cable (75 Ohm) and of course it's not enough to connect one end to the DAC. The other end must be connected too - the receiver does not have to be on, only the DAC to sense the load.

Please make sure you have all the relevant components switched off before doing the connections/disconnections!

I'll be travelling abroad for the next two weeks so I may not be able to answer to you - please do not assume I ignore or disagree with your ideas/findings.

Thanks a lot in advance for your help,

Nektarios.

[rav934]

Does anyone here have the A5? What are your thoughts?

I have the Musical Fidelity A5 Integrated Amp and A5 CD player. The combination driving my 804s is splendid. You close your eyes and the musicians are in front of you. If you have specific questions....email.

[David Meek]

Nektarios,

I don't have the same exact system as yours but I do have the MF A3.24CR DAC. I have noticed some interesting differences between 96 and 192KHz sampling, but the oddities I encountered were transport-based. I was originally using a Sony transport with the A3.24CR and was happier with the DAC set for 96KHz sampling which I thought was "against the grain". I switched to a Yamaha CDR-S1000 as my transport and immediately felt that 192KHz was the better match. I came across some other people that had used a Sony-based transport with the A3.24CR and almost all had said the same thing: 96KHz was a better match for the Sony's. Go figure.

With my Yamaha deck as my transport the overall sound is better regardless of the sample-rate setting, but of the two rates the bass is better defined with the A3.24CR set to 192KHz, the treble has a better sense of spatiality and is more open sounding.

As far as your issue is concerned, maybe I'm not understanding it correctly. If I'm off base, just let me know. If you have the DAC connected to the receiver with a digital cable, the receiver's internal DACs will be used to convert the signal to analog - you may as well connect the CD directly to the receiver bypassing the external DAC. If you have the DAC connected to the receiver with 2 analog cables (left & right channels) then the DAC will convert the signal from the CD to analog and pass that to the receiver. If you have BOTH connected at the same time, I'm not sure what will happen. Possibly a hierarchal set-up has been defined by your receiver's programmers in which case you'd have to find out which is automatically selected, but possibly the receiver will just be confused and not understand what to do.

[nektarios]

Hi David.

I agree with you on the transport - DAC "relationship". Regarding my question, the CD is connected to the DAC digitally and the DAC analog stereo output to the stereo amp; stereo amp output to two speakers, i.e. typical stereo listening arrangement (when using a DAC).

Now, if the only thing you change above is to connect the DAC's digital out to a receiver (receiver is not used), do you hear any sonic difference in your stereo arrangment? What I mean, does your MF DAC sound the same if its digital out is connected to some sort of a digital receiver?

[NewBuyer]

nektarios, what you are describing sounds like evidence of interchassis ground current flowing between your receiver and DAC through the digital cable shield. I assume you are using a digital coax cable, as this would not occur of course when using optical fiber.

When you connected/disconnected the digital cable with the system operating, the only thing I can guess is that the voltage surge/drop may have overloaded a poorly grounded internal component in the DAC. Purely guesswork here.

The best digital equipment uses high-quality pulse transformers on digital coax in/out connections, to avoid exactly this voltage-through-cable-shield issue and its resulting risks, as well as preserving the best digital signal integrity between components. There is a similar transformer argument to be made also for all analog connections between gear as well, whether balanced or unbalanced, involving interrupting interchassis voltage and its resulting modulation of line signals.

[nektarios]

Thanks NewBuyer.

My background is software engineering, but I understand very well what you say. Unfortunately the MF engineers did their frequency tests and cannot find any issues, for the 2nd time. To my ears though, the DAC does some sort of processing bypass. If the DAC behaves differently when Digital Out is connected, then now it thinks the Digital Out is always connected.

I have a couple of friends, telecom engineers, that designed prototype 3G base stations and handsets when working in Fujitsu R&D, and one of them worked also for Orange, Vodafone and other operators in Europe, Australia and US. I'll ask them to have a look into the TriVista and try to figure out what may have gone wrong. I want to get to the bottom of this. Some people reported that their Trivista 21 DAC makes the sound only louder and I was thinking how could they say that! But now that my DAC does exactly that, I am shocked!

I am not sure why the tests cannot detect the problem, but let's hope the telecom guys will find something. I'll post any news I have.

[NewBuyer]

Good luck, I hope you will find specifically what happened and then share the knowledge.

You might mention to Musical Fidelity, that it is not unusual (at least for pro-equipment manufacturers) to state in the user instructions, that the user should never plug or unplug anything to a digital coax input or output while the unit is powered-on. This holds true for digital audio format conversion units, as well as DACS. The only exception is of course when the digital coax input/output is transformer isolated - and that is an expensive additional design aspect that usually the manufacturer clearly states in the product literature.

BTW, did you ever find an email address for Musical Fidelity? Last time I looked, they only had a regular post mail, with an address in the UK...

[nektarios]

Thanks. I think I'll need it.

Actually MF states in their manuals to always switch units off before connecting/disconnecting anything. It was my fault; I was so intrigued by the difference in the DAC's sound when its digital out was connected/disconnected, that I decided to do the fatal mistake of connecting/disconnecting without switching it off! Like an A/B test...

By the way I live in London and MF is very close to me (half an hour drive). So I only phone them up. When we agreed to give the DAC a 2nd look - just in case - I even drove there to avoid courier charges.

[mlp]

X-Ray

I recently obtained a Musical Fidelity X-150 and was looking for a X-Ray V3 to go with it. Has anyone seen any of these available anywhere? Thanks.

[David Meek]

Nothing on Audiogon. . . :nonod:

[alebonau]

I recently obtained a Musical Fidelity X-150 and was looking for a X-Ray V3 to go with it. Has anyone seen any of these available anywhere? Thanks.

In Oz the large X series ie the x-150 integrated, the X-pre and XP-200 and the Xray are replaced by the new A3.5 range. All the small x series eg v3 X-dac, X-10 and excellent X-lps, X-cans etc though still remain. Maybe the same over where you are ?. The A3.5 cd player is bit more pricey but would be the one to now consider.

ps by the way guys as to an update on my initial post in this thread re the mf A5cr pre-power I purchased. I must say I am just absolutely just loving this pair. Very much the pride and joy of my system. A joy to use and the sound is just a pure delight. Love its delicacy and detail at low levels and the slam and dynamics up a bit higher. And still astounded by its clarity and rediscovering even my old music everyday. Very very happy with the purchase and would highly recommend to any one else considering.

[Froggeh]

As far as I know (MF dealer in Newtown, Sydney) they still have X-150, X-RAYv3 etc in stock and are a seperate range, not a previous one to the A3.5. I find the X-150 & X-Ray the best combination for £2000 on the market - now i'm just building some speakers to go with them!

[rav934]

I have the MF A5 Integrated and CD player. It makes my B&W804s sing, but just tool delivery of JMLabs 1027 Be......I might be done upgrading! Going to use the 804s for rears in my surround system.

[alebonau]

I have the MF A5 Integrated and CD player. It makes my B&W804s sing, but just tool delivery of JMLabs 1027 Be......I might be done upgrading! Going to use the 804s for rears in my surround system.

Woof what a combo. Great to knwo the B&W 804s work well with MF A5. Do let us know how you go with the Focal 1027be's wow what a speaker !

[rav934]

Still breaking in the 1027s. But, I can say that combined with the MF A5 pieces...the sound is open and crystal clear. Focal claims it takes considerable time to break these in. So give me a few weeks and I'll post a full review....including a comparison with my 804s. BTW, the 804s make really nice rear speakers....except for the fact that people want to grap the friggin tweeter! My 12 year old daughter made covers that say "don't touch!"

[David Meek]

Grap? :scratchhead:

[rav934]

Update on JMLabs Electra 1027 Be versus B&W 804s.

The difference is not subtle. Bass is deeper and tighter with the 1027s. What pleases me is the voices. Listened to Diana Krall (live in Paris)....the 1027s make it sound like you are there. Not much more to say.

[nektarios]

Trivista 21 DAC, 96/192KHz differences, possible effects of Digital Out

David Meek, NewBuyer hi.

Last weekend my friend was in UK so I leased an oscilloscope and a logical analyser and we sat down Saturday and Sunday analysing the circuit board, microcontroller output, and initialisation sequences of the two upsampling chips and the BurrBrown (this one seems to be doing only the Digital to Analog conversion).

We downloaded datasheets and verified clocking and connections. That was really hard work! At the end my friend told me exactly the same things as the MF engineer: it's working fine. There are protection circuits in the inputs/outputs consisting of capacitors, resistors, and some type of a coil represented with the usual spiral and an extra two parallel lines in the middle I think (my H/W knowledge is rather limited). In that arrangement it's virtually impossible to cause any damage.

I got an A5 CD player as a home loan and when I tested the A5 against my XRayV3 + Trivista 21 DAC to my ears they sounded exactly the same whether digital out was terminated or not on A5 (all equipment on RDC Aspekt Rack).

So, by elimination, this is what I think happened. For the whole two years I own the unit, I was listening to a sound with too much bass but I thought the problem was with my speakers because many people on the net think the Monitor Audios S6 are bottom heavy. The highs were smeared and covered because of the emphasized low end or who knows what else - I thought it may have been vibrations, or bad placement of the components on the rack... I even calculated the centre of weights in order to spread the equipment weight evenly on the shelves' rubber pads... Mids were affected too and the whole sound seemed to have more "scale". Selecting between 96-192 KHz the difference was like night and day. In 192KHz although the bass sounded super tight, some CDs were unlistenable as the bass was too intense - in 96KHz instead it was very boomy but more ambient. With Cesaria Evora's Cavo Berde album for example, I would either lower the volume or disconnect the DAC and listen only using the X-RayV3 + X150.

As I had no reference of how the DAC should sound I assumed that's how it is. I blocked the lower speaker ports with foam bangs to control the booming, and I placed the components centred on the shelves where I would get the least smearing on the highs.

So when I connected the digital out to my AV receiver (AV receiver not used - I just terminated TriVista's digital out connector) and the sound came out with such a linear frequency response, I got shocked! I immediately assumed that this must be some line out kind of mode, especially because 96-192KHz made no difference to the sound! When I would disconnect the digital out cable, the familiar sound would come back and the 96-192 modes would work again the way I was used to!

When I connected the digital out while the TriVista was playing (for my A/B test - all the other times I was switching off all the units) but upon disconnection the TriVista continued playing in that "line out" kind of sound I was petrified! I thought I destroyed it! No difference in 96-192 KHz any more! All this money spent and no difference!

Well, there is no "sensing" circuit in the TriVista for behaving differently. There is the protection circuit and auto-termination, impedance matching (so that the digital out signal does not travel all the way to the RCA if nothing is connected?) - I am not sure if I use the correct words-concept here.

What I don't understand is why did it need a "kick in the teeth" to start working OK? Is that part of the so-called "burn-in" or "run-in" process? I don't have a clue, but it was "cold turkey" whatever it was! The tragic irony is I thought I had destroyed the system, but in reality it had just started working properly!

The frequency response is extremely linear now - I had to unblock the rear speaker ports again and there in no booming whatsoever: nice tight lows, open mids, and the highs are crystal clear with body and always there... needless to say I hear things that before they were probably just swamped. Very "fluid" sound.

I am not exactly sure, but something was creating some sort of serious interference or noise, or misalignment - I think the more noise in the system, the more the sound difference between 96-192KHz modes. This noise would disappear when the digital out was terminated. It would come back when digital out was unconnected. The noise disappeared completely when I terminated the digital out while TriVista was playing. Digital out works fine, but the noise is not there anymore whether the digital out is connected or not...

So to correct my previous post, if you want to "hear"/verify your CD player or DAC, terminate their electrical digital outs (i.e. connect them to another DAC or AV receiver - no need for these to be switched on, but both ends of the 75 Ohm cable must be connected) and then listen to your music. The sound should be exactly the same as before. If not, then just keep the digital out connected! Because most probably that's how it should sound!

Thanks a lot for your input. I wish we enjoy our hi fi systems for a long time!

Nektarios.

[Hensa]

I have just joined this forum after being impressed with the information available on the MF gear. I live in Hong Kong, where MF gear can be purchased at very competitive prices (certainly compared to Australia where I was previously!!).

I have the A5 CD player (2 weeks old) and the A300 integrated amp driving a new pair of Mordaunt Short Performance 6 speakers. The CD and speakers are still in "burn-in" period but already the sound is very good. The A5 CD was an upgarde from the Arcam Alpha 7SE, which while a decent player, didn't quite deliver the transparency I was looking for. My only concern at the moment is whether the amplifier is doing justice to the CD and speakers - the bass feels a little loose and I don't think this is speaker related as the Performance are noted for their tightness in the bass. When I auditioned the speakers and CD player it was in combination with the A5 integrated and I didn't hear this bass bloom, so I'm considering whether I should look to upgrade to the A5 Integrated. Does anyone have any experience with the A300 or better yet, has anyone been able to compare the A300 to the A5 directly?

Thanks for any feedback.

Hensa

[alebonau]

I have just joined this forum after being impressed with the information available on the MF gear. I live in Hong Kong, where MF gear can be purchased at very competitive prices (certainly compared to Australia where I was previously!!).

I have the A5 CD player (2 weeks old) and the A300 integrated amp driving a new pair of Mordaunt Short Performance 6 speakers. The CD and speakers are still in "burn-in" period but already the sound is very good. The A5 CD was an upgarde from the Arcam Alpha 7SE, which while a decent player, didn't quite deliver the transparency I was looking for. My only concern at the moment is whether the amplifier is doing justice to the CD and speakers - the bass feels a little loose and I don't think this is speaker related as the Performance are noted for their tightness in the bass. When I auditioned the speakers and CD player it was in combination with the A5 integrated and I didn't hear this bass bloom, so I'm considering whether I should look to upgrade to the A5 Integrated. Does anyone have any experience with the A300 or better yet, has anyone been able to compare the A300 to the A5 directly?

Thanks for any feedback.

Hensa

Hi Hensa,

long time since I heard an A300 and certainly never heard them with your speakers. Have demoed both the a5 integrated and the A5 pre-pwr which I oen. Never done a comparison between the A300 and the A5s' as a few years separate the two now.

Can only comment that the A300 I think I'd charecterise as a more richer/fuller soundign amp compared to the A5 series which is a lot more neutral ? perhaps thats the difference your hearing ?

best thing you can do if you can is try borrow an A5 integrated from a retailer and check it out vs the A300 in your setup. Will soon tell you whether its amp related. Also what are you basing your comparisons - the audiotion ? you mention ? was that instore or in the same room & setup as you have them now ? as room and setup that can change heavily how a speaker soudns particularly in the bass. You could experiment in the mean time with the speaker placement - move them out from walls or corners if you have them anywhere near those.

[Hensa]

A300 vs A5

Hi Alebonau

I think your description of the A300 is quite accurate - a fuller and warmer sound, which I think I enjoyed on my former speakers (Ruark Talisman II's) because the speakers were a little bit leaner than the MS speakers.

I auditioned the speakers in store so really have not done comparison under the same conditions, so this could well be a factor. I think the listening environment at home is as good as I can get it, though the left speaker is only 0.5 metre from side wall (curtained) - I don't think my wife would let me get away with moving it any further away as the set up is part of our TV set up and has to be reasonably centred to the lounge for "aesthetic" purposes, yada, yada, yada.

My instincts are telling me this is more about the A300's nature than the speakers or positioning, but I guess I should take your advice and try for a home audition of the A5 and do a direct comparison - not sure what my chances will be in Hong Kong, however.

Thanks for the tips and happy listening.

Hensa

[Guy]

Hensa:

I have owned the A300 for some years and have been happy with it until I purchased the B&W 802Ds. I then decided to try and bi amp these speakers with a new A5CR power amp however ended up just using the power amp and the A300 as a preamp only since the sound of the A5 is much better in every way than the A300.

I think you will get better bang for your money buying a A5CR and using your A300 as a preamp just like I did. This should give you better results than buying an A5 integrated and it will cost the same.

[alebonau]

Hensa:

I have owned the A300 for some years and have been happy with it until I purchased the B&W 802Ds. I then decided to try and bi amp these speakers with a new A5CR power amp however ended up just using the power amp and the A300 as a preamp only since the sound of the A5 is much better in every way than the A300.

I think you will get better bang for your money buying a A5CR and using your A300 as a preamp just like I did. This should give you better results than buying an A5 integrated and it will cost the same.

Interesting approach/suggestion well worth exploring as well hensa apart from jsut the a5 integrated. And yes I have the a5cr power and must say it is bloody good for slam/dynamics but also does extremely well with delicacy and fine subtle details. And on the bass it is very clean with a good grippy sound.

[Hensa]

Now there's some food for thought! Thanks for the suggestion. And it leaves me with a natural upgrade path down the track if I lecide to go for a dedicated preamplifier. The specs suggest it's a fair bit more amplifier than the integrated, particularly in reference to peak current levels, so it could be the better value approach.

Guy, how does the A300 fair as a pre-amp or have you not really been able to compare with other dedicated amps? I'd have considered the A5 pre-amp down the track but have read a few threads that suggest there is a problem with hum. Alebonau, you don't seem to have this as an issue?

[alebonau]

Now there's some food for thought! Thanks for the suggestion. And it leaves me with a natural upgrade path down the track if I lecide to go for a dedicated preamplifier. The specs suggest it's a fair bit more amplifier than the integrated, particularly in reference to peak current levels, so it could be the better value approach.

Guy, how does the A300 fair as a pre-amp or have you not really been able to compare with other dedicated amps? I'd have considered the A5 pre-amp down the track but have read a few threads that suggest there is a problem with hum. Alebonau, you don't seem to have this as an issue?

hi hensa, yes a natural upgrade path indeed. Have not compared the a300 as pre vs a dedicated pre. there is a very small bit of hum hensa if you put your ear right up to the speakers. Also the power amp itself if you put your ear to it theres a little bit of hum. In both cases it is extremely small and as soon as you get even the smallest distance away its not audible and not an issue for me.

Both the pre and power amps along with their torroidal transformers(which is massive in the power amp) also for choke regulation employ additionaly a frame transformer per channel in the design which is what could be causing it. But I also understand that the choke regulation is what gives the pre-pwr the brilliant clarity/sound it has. Sitting back in the listening position all I hear is its beautifull sounds the cleanest soudns I've heard of any pre-pwr/ integrated amp in its price range with a clarity which is unbelievable, best I can descibe it is as being explicit. A beaut combination well worth considering I'm very happy with it. I posted a review earlier on in this thread someplace if your interested.

[Guy]

I have not compared the a300 as a pre amp only to others as yet however I have compared the a300 as a pre amp with the a5 power amp to the a5 integrated. In my opinion my a5 power/ A300 combo is much better. Better slam/ dynamics, bigger and more controlled bass and total control of the speakers. Look at the specs between the A5 and A5CR Amp. Peak to peak current for the A5 is around 70 where as the A5CR has 200. Big difference not to mention you get the choke regulation with the A5CR where the A5 has no choke reg.

The trick I used with the A300 in order to make it a true pre amp is to disconnect the power amp section and just use the pre. This will make the setup a true seperate power/ pre combo which in turn eliminates alot of the hum/ noise you hear coming from the speakers. It's easy to do. All I did was take the cover off and remove the four fuses next to the transformers in the front of the amp. This disengages the power section but still permits use of the pre section. It works so well I have no inclination to upgrade to the A5 pre - for now : . The only problem was that they use wierd screws to secure the cover which requires a special tool to remove. I removed them carefully with needle nose plyers - not easy :M

The option I picked instead of the A5 integrated gives me better performance for the same money and an upgrade path to further improve things when i've got more cash

By the way the A300 is the only thing I have not yet upgraded in my system because it is so good. Also, remember all the good reviews it received from pulications such as Stereophile and Audio Review. It still stands up well in comparison to the A5 integrated and in my opinion is not better or worse just a slightly different sound and more power with the A5.

Hope this helps. Let us know what u think.

Guy.

[Hensa]

Hi Alebonau and Guy,
Thanks for the comments. Alebonau, I read your review of the A5 combo and it is very helpful. I think I will take my A300 to the MF dealer in HK and try for an A/B comparison between the A5 pre-power and the A300/A5 combinations. The cost of the A5 units over here is only A$2,200 each which makes them relatively affordable if the difference in sound quality justifies it.

I have enjoyed the A300 for so long now, I'm a little reluctant to diminish it to just pre-amp duties and am thinking about using it in my second system, where it seemed a good fit to my reconditioned Rogers Studio 1a speakers.

I'll let you know how I go in a couple of weeks time.

[Cambs12]

Trivista

Hi Folks,
I'm new to the forum,interested in leaving behind my Linn System for something Different.Currently considering a Trivista integrated amp,does anyone have any thoughts on this product,and has anyone compared it with A5 pre-power?

[alebonau]

hi cambs, havent heard the trivista integrated to be honest was way out of my budget when it was out. Seems to be a bit more powerfull with 350wpc than the A5 pre-pwr or integrated. Youd' really need to compare the both back to back on yoru speakers and with your linn stuff to decide for yourself. What I can tell you though is really happy with both the A5cr pre & the power amp and recently added a A5cd player which really is a perfect match and all up a great combination.

[Cambs12]

Thanks Alebonau,I have bought the Trivista,and am delighted with it,sound is effortless power and depth,and at the same time a lot smoother than my Linn stuff...
Looking for a cd player to match.The A5 i like a lot,if i could get the KW SACD within budget,bearing in mind i have few sacds,is it worth the extra for playing "normal" cds?