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  • sciguy82
    Junior Member
    • Mar 2008
    • 18

    Yas, r u the one selling your onkyo tx-sr905 in the other forum?

    Comment

    • David.M
      Junior Member
      • Dec 2007
      • 8

      Originally posted by Yasvanth
      Hello all fellow MF owners,

      I'm thinking of changing my spks from the Kef Reference 1:2 to possibly the Monitor Audio GS10, GS20 or the new Platinum standmounted spks. Do you chaps think this would be the perfect match for my MF A5cr Pre & Pwr amps.
      Yas,
      I use MA GR20's with my A5pre/pwr (with Chord Signature connects & speaker cable) and am very happy, fast, detailed with tight & strong bass down to 32hz (based on test CD). I use the port plugs in the rear upper port which gives the upper midrange better definition. My dealer tells me there is very little, if any, difference between the GR & GS20's. I've not heard the Platinum's but so far they have received very positive reviews.
      I'm just about to upgrade by NAD542 CD. Came down to a CDX2 or Leema Antila & after listening to both in my system have decided on the Leema. Very detailed, even and enjoyable sound with a magnificent bottem end. The CDX2 with an xps2 may match/exceed it but over here they are more than 2.5times the cost of the Leema. I have listened to the A5 CD which to my ears is just simply not in the same league. Good luck with the speakers.

      Comment

      • cug
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2008
        • 286

        A5 and different voltages

        Hi.

        Does anybody know whether it is possible to switch the input voltage for an A5 integrated and cd player from 110V to 220V? Might be done through a service or so ...

        Also: is there any support e-mail address at Musical Fidelity? They only give phone numbers in the UK on their page. Don't want to get up that early to call from west Canada.

        cug

        Comment

        • cntlaw
          Member
          • Mar 2008
          • 80

          My First Post - N804S Loads of Newbie Questions

          I am in a position to decide a new floor stand speakers either
          the B&W N804S or the Proac D28. Since I have only been using small speakers Proac Response 1sc, I therefore borrowed my friend's N804S
          to test the sound.

          My original configuration:
          Proac Response 1sc Speakers
          Musical Fidelity A3cr Dual Mono Preamplifier
          Musical Fidelity A3cr Dual Mono Power Amplifier
          Musical Fidelity A5cd Compact Disc Player
          AudioQuest CV-6 Speaker Cables Bi-Wired
          Cardas Golden Cross Interconnect for CD Player
          AudioQuest Viper Interconnect for Amps

          Using same setup as above, I connected my friend's B&W N804S as shown in attached photos.
          Listener distance is ~8 ft, distance between speakers are ~ 6.5 ft, distance of speakers from rear wall ~ 1.5 ft

          1. I found the N804S has produced excessive bass, can be muddy at times, for my limited listener distance, someone suggests the D28 is much better for my listening enovironment, any comments? (However, I am impressed by the solid bass from the N804S)

          2. Is it wise to move from my Response 1sc to D28 or N804S without changing my 100W A3cr Pre+Pow? Must I go for MF A1008 or A5.5 ? And which?

          3. It seems I can't push the speakers towards the rear wall any further. For the Response 1sc, the high tune becomes too bright when the speakers are too close to the rear wall. What is the best speakers-to-Wall distance for the N804S ?

          4. Need recommendation of a Interconnect Cable for my A3 cr Pre and Pow instead of the old AudioQuest Viper I am currently using.

          5.
          I also want to find out, with either the D28 or N804S, will there be significant improvement if I also change the Amps to the 1008 or the A5.5? Will the power be too weak if I am keeping the A3cr to push the N804S. It seems the sensitivity of the N804S is much higher than the Response 1sc as I observed that there are less turn of volume I needed when driving the N804S, or is it just because the N804S have more drivers?

          THX

          t
          Attached Files

          B&W 803S / MF KW-550 /MF A1008 CDP
          Transparent Power Link MM
          CSE RK-100 Power Conditioner / Powersnake Taipan Helix Vx / Arcolink 4030 2m
          AudioNote ANvX Mark II RCA / XLO Limited Edition Mk II RCA
          TAOC PTS-F Spike Plates for 803S / SolidSteel Audio Tables: 6.2x2+1xTable-B / Lynn Skeet Spike Plates for Racks

          Comment

          • cug
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2008
            • 286

            Originally posted by cntlaw
            Listener distance is ~8 ft, distance between speakers are ~ 6.5 ft, distance of speakers from rear wall ~ 1.5 ft
            Are these 1.5 ft from the back of the speakers? It's hard to see in the pictures. We have ours about 60cm (close to two feet, measured at the back of the speaker) from the rear wall and found that a good compromise for a clear bass. Our listening distance is still around 12ft (leaned back) or 10ft (leaned slightly forward).

            Originally posted by cntlaw
            1. I found the N804S has produced excessive bass, can be muddy at times,
            We had that only when the speaker was too close to the rear wall. Also I think as you are coming from a small speaker, you might overestimate the bass of the 804S which is normally okay, or even on the light side.

            Originally posted by cntlaw
            2. Is it wise to move from my Response 1sc to D28 or N804S without changing my 100W A3cr Pre+Pow? Must I go for MF A1008 or A5.5 ? And which?
            Currently we drive the 804S with a Rotel RA 1062, and are shortly before an upgrade. Maybe MF A5. The 804S need a stable amp that can deliver punch down to 4 Ohm, but that's it. It's not too hard to drive.

            Originally posted by cntlaw
            4. Need recommendation of a Interconnect Cable for my A3 cr Pre and Pow instead of the old AudioQuest Viper I am currently using.
            I bought CAT cables (copper) for the good build quality and to support the forum. If I want to imagine better sound, I invest the money in a good red wine with better effect than cables ...

            Originally posted by cntlaw
            I also want to find out, with either the D28 or N804S, will there be significant improvement if I also change the Amps to the 1008 or the A5.5? Will the power be too weak if I am keeping the A3cr to push the N804S.
            I'd try it with the amp you have - it should have enough power to drive the 804S just fine for normal to even loud listening levels. As you are quite close the speakers, that shouldn't present any problem at all. We have a rather large room and the 60W Rotel RA 1062 isn't too bad. We just want to be on the safer side.

            The 804S is a really great speaker, but needs proper placement and an amp that can deliver into 4 Ohm. You power amp should be able to handle that without a hickup if you are not turning the volume too high with home theater use.

            If the 804S is too bass heavy for your taste, try the 805S which is an amazing speaker in my opinion. I absolutely love it, but for our taste the 804S had the right punch for our music taste, was in a really good harmony and coming from them to the 805S the latter lacked in bass.

            Comment

            • sciguy82
              Junior Member
              • Mar 2008
              • 18

              Originally posted by cug
              Hi.

              Does anybody know whether it is possible to switch the input voltage for an A5 integrated and cd player from 110V to 220V? Might be done through a service or so ...

              Also: is there any support e-mail address at Musical Fidelity? They only give phone numbers in the UK on their page. Don't want to get up that early to call from west Canada.

              cug

              I think you will need a power step down transformer,it will stepdown the power and connect any 110V & 100V console import from US to connect to a 220V socket.

              Comment

              • cug
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2008
                • 286

                Originally posted by sciguy82
                I think you will need a power step down transformer,it will stepdown the power and connect any 110V & 100V console import from US to connect to a 220V socket.
                Actually they can be reconfigured. I got an email from the German distributor this morning.

                If somebody has a good contact to MF - they definitely should have an email address for technical questions.

                Comment

                • cug
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2008
                  • 286

                  They are ordered ... an A5 integrated and an A5 cd-player ...

                  Upgrading from Rotel RA-1062 / RCD-1072 which are going to the second system.

                  Comment

                  • cntlaw
                    Member
                    • Mar 2008
                    • 80

                    Originally posted by cug
                    Are these 1.5 ft from the back of the speakers? It's hard to see in the pictures. We have ours about 60cm (close to two feet, measured at the back of the speaker) from the rear wall and found that a good compromise for a clear bass. Our listening distance is still around 12ft (leaned back) or 10ft (leaned slightly forward).



                    We had that only when the speaker was too close to the rear wall. Also I think as you are coming from a small speaker, you might overestimate the bass of the 804S which is normally okay, or even on the light side.



                    Currently we drive the 804S with a Rotel RA 1062, and are shortly before an upgrade. Maybe MF A5. The 804S need a stable amp that can deliver punch down to 4 Ohm, but that's it. It's not too hard to drive.



                    I bought CAT cables (copper) for the good build quality and to support the forum. If I want to imagine better sound, I invest the money in a good red wine with better effect than cables ...



                    I'd try it with the amp you have - it should have enough power to drive the 804S just fine for normal to even loud listening levels. As you are quite close the speakers, that shouldn't present any problem at all. We have a rather large room and the 60W Rotel RA 1062 isn't too bad. We just want to be on the safer side.

                    The 804S is a really great speaker, but needs proper placement and an amp that can deliver into 4 Ohm. You power amp should be able to handle that without a hickup if you are not turning the volume too high with home theater use.

                    If the 804S is too bass heavy for your taste, try the 805S which is an amazing speaker in my opinion. I absolutely love it, but for our taste the 804S had the right punch for our music taste, was in a really good harmony and coming from them to the 805S the latter lacked in bass.

                    Cug

                    Thx for your help.
                    In past few days, I have been reworking my sitting room and now is able to allow the 804S to have a distance of 2 foot from all walls. The speakers are now placed 6.5 ft apart and my listening distance can vary from 8 ft to 11 ft. See photo. ( I have placed some stuff to block the two rear corners )
                    The Amps are restacked over the window bench which has basically resolved the muddy bass issue when I was placing the CDp in front of the speakers! ops:

                    1. My friend suggests I should get the 803S, is this a wise move for my audio room space ? ( I can live with the 804S now )

                    2. A1008i or A5.5 or A5 Pre+Pow, which one will do best with 803S/804S?

                    3. This afternoon, I am going to audition the Proac D28 with MF A1008 and see how much worse/better female vocals than the 804S

                    4. If I do not change my speakers from Proac Response 1sc to D28 or 803S/804S, will changing the Amp from my A3cr Pre+Pow to A5 Pre+Pow or A5.5 Int really worth it?

                    Thanks a lot for your help, I will implement your suggestions.

                    t









                    B&W 803S / MF KW-550 /MF A1008 CDP
                    Transparent Power Link MM
                    CSE RK-100 Power Conditioner / Powersnake Taipan Helix Vx / Arcolink 4030 2m
                    AudioNote ANvX Mark II RCA / XLO Limited Edition Mk II RCA
                    TAOC PTS-F Spike Plates for 803S / SolidSteel Audio Tables: 6.2x2+1xTable-B / Lynn Skeet Spike Plates for Racks

                    Comment

                    • cug
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2008
                      • 286

                      Originally posted by cntlaw
                      In past few days, I have been reworking my sitting room and now is able to allow the 804S to have a distance of 2 foot from all walls. The speakers are now placed 6.5 ft apart and my listening distance can vary from 8 ft to 11 ft. See photo. ( I have placed some stuff to block the two rear corners )
                      The Amps are restacked over the window bench which has basically resolved the muddy bass issue when I was placing the CDp in front of the speakers! ops:
                      Interesting. I've read that the A5 CDP is sensitive about vibrations which I was wondering whether it was actually true or "audiophile phantasy". Normally this shouldn't really matter, but maybe the vacuum tubes inside might be more sensitive to that than a normal solid state output stage. Decoupling the CDP from vibrations might therefore help - which is basically your experience, right?

                      I would also play with tilting the speakers a bit in the direction of your listening position. I have them about 5 degrees tilted inwards. We played here with positioning for about a week with my wife sitting on the sofa and me moving speakers ...

                      I can see that you have spikes on the 804S. How solid is your floor? We have them sitting on concrete which really helps tightening the bass compared to having them "float" on the carpet. People here worked with granite or similar to decouple the speakers from the wooden floor. It's something I'd try: maybe at one of these kitchen outfitters they have some parts left you can use - put some felt pads under them and use the spikes on the speakers if the surface is rough enough so they don't move.

                      And you can play around with distance from the side wall - remember that you get reflections from the floor and side wall. If you have a carpet - put it between the speakers and your listening position for a test. If you don't, use a comforter or blanket for that test. That might also change the sound significantly (way more than an amp upgrade).

                      Hmmm. Have to think about more ideas. What is behind your listening position?


                      Originally posted by cntlaw
                      1. My friend suggests I should get the 803S, is this a wise move for my audio room space ? ( I can live with the 804S now )
                      Personally I think that the 803[s/d] are a waste of money. The 803S doesn't bring a good enough update from the 804S and I really don't like the dampened, clearity lacking, boomy sound of the 803D. The next speaker in the B&W line that really is an upgrade for my personal taste is the 802D which is way to expensive for me. So I'm just happy with my 804S and don't even think about upgrading them.

                      Originally posted by cntlaw
                      2. A1008i or A5.5 or A5 Pre+Pow, which one will do best with 803S/804S?
                      I have absolutely no idea. They should all be pretty similar as long as your are not going into ranges where one of them runs out of steam. The 804S is with its 90dB/1W/1m quite efficient. A 250W integrated will have enough power to drive it to insane levels and also will handle all dynamics good enough. I don't think ANY of these amps will have an advantage over the other - only maybe personal taste regarding the frequency response, which also should be VERY similar with all of them.

                      As you might hear: I'm not a believer in amplifier sound. I like to have enough power to drive my speakers in all situations (dynamic music, peaks) but that's about it. For my listening levels, any decent 100W amplifier will be more than enough. I don't like my music loud, I like it good.

                      A couple of days ago I ordered an A5 integrated and I'm really looking forward to it. The Rotel RA-1062 I have is not a bad amp, but it sometimes lacks power with very dynamic classical recordings where sudden high peaks come in. So, I wanted a bit more "juice" and I'm getting that with an A5 at a decent price.

                      Originally posted by cntlaw
                      3. This afternoon, I am going to audition the Proac D28 with MF A1008 and see how much worse/better female vocals than the 804S
                      When I was searching for speakers I was using (with other stuff) the song "S'Wonderful" from Diana Krall and "Fields of Gold" from Eva Cassidy. These two songs where the ultimate "female voice" challenge I used with every speaker. VERY nice were the Totem Forest and the Totem Model 1 (with subwoofer), but the overall performance was way better in my opinion with the 804S.

                      But if I couldn't buy the 804S, I'd be happy with a pair of Totem speakers.

                      Originally posted by cntlaw
                      4. If I do not change my speakers from Proac Response 1sc to D28 or 803S/804S, will changing the Amp from my A3cr Pre+Pow to A5 Pre+Pow or A5.5 Int really worth it?
                      Every "audiophile" will tell you yes! I don't. I like very (!!!) good sound and I took great pains to find exactly what I was looking for and found that now. I don't have to spend insane amounts of money for very questionable results. I put most of the money into the speakers. Got solid electronics (A5 amp and cd player are on the way), but didn't go into the deep spaces of searching for the "ultimate" which I doubt is anywhere but in the imagination of the listener.

                      What I'll have in a couple of days is:

                      - A5 integrated amp
                      - A5 cd player
                      - B&W 804S
                      - CAT cables (CATtails, and copper interconnects) for their good build quality

                      That's it. No magical racks here, no bi-wiring, no silver cables, nothing. Just good, solid quality for a reasonable price.

                      Btw: your listening room looks good now! As I said: a carpet will change the sound probably more than any amplifier (except a broken one) can ...

                      Comment

                      • cntlaw
                        Member
                        • Mar 2008
                        • 80

                        Originally posted by cug
                        Interesting. I've read that the A5 CDP is sensitive about vibrations......... which is basically your experience, right?
                        Yes, although the CDP was placed on a very strong 60 lbs rack, but it made big difference after I relocated it to the back of the speakers window bench instead of placing it 4 ft. in front of the speakers.

                        I can see that you have spikes on the 804S. How solid is your floor? We have them sitting on concrete which really helps tightening the bass compared to having them "float" on the carpet. People here worked with granite or similar to decouple the speakers from the wooden floor. It's something I'd try: maybe at one of these kitchen outfitters they have some parts left you can use - put some felt pads under them and use the spikes on the speakers if the surface is rough enough so they don't move.
                        Most here live in apartment without raised floor, so the floor is 'solid' except the floor's wood stripes are not often evenly glued, so need to adjust the levelling screws underneath after a speaker is moved.

                        And you can play around with distance from the side wall - remember that you get reflections from the floor and side wall. If you have a carpet - put it between the speakers and your listening position for a test. If you don't, use a comforter or blanket for that test. That might also change the sound significantly (way more than an amp upgrade).
                        I have done so, see photo. Perhaps I need a thicker carpet than that one.

                        Hmmm. Have to think about more ideas. What is behind your listening position?
                        see photo.


                        A couple of days ago I ordered an A5 integrated and I'm really looking forward to it.
                        SPEAKERS - After yesterday audition ( D28 + A1008 / KW550 + A5cd )
                        I am more or less sold by the D28 as it has a sound nature (female vocals) similar to my Proac R1sc but D28 has solid bass, of course.
                        Price of D28 and N804S here are pretty close.

                        What I'll have in a couple of days is:
                        - A5 integrated amp
                        - A5 cd player
                        - B&W 804S
                        - CAT cables (CATtails, and copper interconnects) for their good build quality
                        I am deciding the A1008 and do a last thinking about KW550.
                        My friends with me in the audition think the KW550 has better resolution but this Amp 600W output seems to be 'too much' for the D28 's two-way design to handle more musical music playback.
                        If I were to get the KW550, then I need bigger speakers like the 803D, and then it will stilll go back to my small room issue.
                        If I were to get the A1008 to replace my A3cr, it is not quite an 'upgrade'.
                        We only have A5.5 in the shops but we didn't test it.

                        t



                        B&W 803S / MF KW-550 /MF A1008 CDP
                        Transparent Power Link MM
                        CSE RK-100 Power Conditioner / Powersnake Taipan Helix Vx / Arcolink 4030 2m
                        AudioNote ANvX Mark II RCA / XLO Limited Edition Mk II RCA
                        TAOC PTS-F Spike Plates for 803S / SolidSteel Audio Tables: 6.2x2+1xTable-B / Lynn Skeet Spike Plates for Racks

                        Comment

                        • cug
                          Senior Member
                          • Jan 2008
                          • 286

                          Originally posted by cntlaw
                          Yes, although the CDP was placed on a very strong 60 lbs rack, but it made big difference after I relocated it to the back of the speakers window bench instead of placing it 4 ft. in front of the speakers.
                          Okay, that's good to know. I'll do some testing when my one arrives. Did you also change how your stack is build? You have your amps on top of the player right now, so maybe the help keeping of vibrations?

                          Originally posted by cntlaw
                          Most here live in apartment without raised floor, so the floor is 'solid' except the floor's wood stripes are not often evenly glued, so need to adjust the levelling screws underneath after a speaker is moved.
                          Yeah, same here. We have wall-to-wall carpet (pretty thick) but the spikes go through and connect to the concrete beneath the carpet.

                          Originally posted by cntlaw
                          I have done so, see photo. Perhaps I need a thicker carpet than that one.
                          Not necessarily. It really depends. Moving the carpet around, placing a comforter here or there and so on might help finding spots where dampening has a good or bad effect on the sound.

                          Originally posted by cntlaw
                          SPEAKERS - After yesterday audition ( D28 + A1008 / KW550 + A5cd ) I am more or less sold by the D28 as it has a sound nature (female vocals) similar to my Proac R1sc but D28 has solid bass, of course.
                          Price of D28 and N804S here are pretty close.
                          I don't know them. We listened to a lot (!) of speakers before we bought the 804S but these where not in the list. The 804S is incredibly revealing and I know people who don't like that so much. I just love them.

                          Originally posted by cntlaw
                          I am deciding the A1008 and do a last thinking about KW550. My friends with me in the audition think the KW550 has better resolution but this Amp 600W output seems to be 'too much' for the D28 's two-way design to handle more musical music playback.
                          Question now is, whether YOU thought that the KW was better. Better to be worth it. Or are you buying for your friend? Sorry to say that, but when I buy speakers or amplifiers or cd players or whatever for my system, I don't give a shit what ANYBODY says, I listen and if I like it, I buy it. I normally try to do blind comparisons, home auditioning and so on.

                          Originally posted by cntlaw
                          If I were to get the KW550, then I need bigger speakers like the 803D, and then it will stilll go back to my small room issue.
                          If I were to get the A1008 to replace my A3cr, it is not quite an 'upgrade'.
                          We only have A5.5 in the shops but we didn't test it.
                          I don't want to question your thought here, but why? Why didn't you listen to the A5.5? Do you WANT to spent a certain amount of money? And why does the KW need the bigger speakers? Does it say that in the manual? I'm sorry to be so direct, but I think you should stop listening to friends and sales persons and start listening to what your ears and taste tell you. Because it's YOUR taste, YOUR money and YOU have to live with the decision.

                          If you do a blind a/b comparison between any of the mentioned amplifiers and yours I bet a lot that you can't either tell them apart or you like one this day and different one on another day. Or both. Or none of that. Because they will all sound mainly the same. If a solid state amplifier sounds completely different from another one while both are driven within their specs and don't have a too hard load with the speakers, there is something seriously wrong with one of them.

                          Yes, there are differences, but in 99.99% they are from not really equalled volume levels and / or bad frequency response from one of them. Sorry, but you should be really careful about what you hear and what you imagine and what someone tells you he hears (or imagines).

                          You should read that, before you spent too much on an amplifier:



                          You might also be interested in that one:



                          Some solid information about wiring. He also has some good stuff about amplifiers, but it's obviously mostly about McIntosh (which I don't like, mainly because I think that they are ugly like hell).

                          As I said: I'm not an "audiophile" and I'm proud of it. I love good music and sound and it was my profession for 15 years but I'm not a believer in obscure crap made up by people who want to sell stuff for insane prices.

                          But, okay, that's my personal opinion and you're all free to have your own.

                          Comment

                          • cntlaw
                            Member
                            • Mar 2008
                            • 80

                            Originally posted by cug
                            Okay, that's good to know. I'll do some testing when my one arrives. Did you also change how your stack is build? You have your amps on top of the player right now, so maybe the help keeping of vibrations?
                            I guess so. I didn't have the chance to move around the CDP again, the window stone bench is in theory free from vibration except people are only worrying if the day is getting too hot and direct sun issues. My window faces South, that shouldn't be too bad. The location of the stack is temporary. I have to sort out shifting the big Turtles tank to the left most of the bench or to relocate it completely.

                            Originally posted by cug
                            Yeah, same here. We have wall-to-wall carpet (pretty thick) but the spikes go through and connect to the concrete beneath the carpet.
                            I also plan to put wall to wall carpet in this audio area.


                            Originally posted by cug
                            Not necessarily. It really depends. Moving the carpet around, placing a comforter here or there and so on might help finding spots where dampening has a good or bad effect on the sound.
                            Since I have basically emptied the sitting room, I really need to fill in some extra stuff later e.g. nested CD racks , which I have heard these do absorb some bass.

                            Originally posted by cug
                            I don't know them. We listened to a lot (!) of speakers before we bought the 804S but these where not in the list. The 804S is incredibly revealing and I know people who don't like that so much. I just love them.
                            I have been using Proac Response 1sc for 5 years and more or less I am sold to the touchy female vocals sounds, the Proac D28 has similar vocal sound like the R1sc except D28 is a floor stand and 1 8" bass driver. The worries of a friend's view on the D28 is its two-way design being inferior to the 804S.


                            Originally posted by cug
                            Question now is, whether YOU thought that the KW was better. Better to be worth it. I don't want to question your thought here, but why? Why didn't you listen to the A5.5? Do you WANT to spent a certain amount of money? And why does the KW need the bigger speakers? Does it say that in the manual? I'm sorry to be so direct, but I think you should stop listening to friends and sales persons and start listening to what your ears and taste tell you. Because it's YOUR taste, YOUR money and YOU have to live with the decision. If you do a blind a/b comparison between any of the mentioned amplifiers and yours I bet a lot that you can't either tell them apart or you like one this day and different one on another day. Or both. Or none of that. Because they will all sound mainly the same. If a solid state amplifier sounds completely different from another one while both are driven within their specs and don't have a too hard load with the speakers, there is something seriously wrong with one of them.
                            Appreciated the 'direct' comments, I share all your points.
                            I must admit during the A/B comparisons of a set of test tracks between the A1008 and KW550 on the D28, we found both amps have produced the same tone nature, at least for vocals. The KW is just more exaggerated for certain instruments e.g. electric guitars , which I tend to find them more amusing than really any quality differences for the type of music I listen. In fact, I could find no difference at all when we were playing Carpenters Superstar.
                            At one instant, I even found the KW has turned female vocals to a over brighter tonal a bit .

                            Originally posted by cug
                            You should read that, before you spent too much on an amplifier:

                            You might also be interested in that one:

                            Some solid information about wiring. He also has some good stuff about amplifiers, but it's obviously mostly about McIntosh (which I don't like, mainly because I think that they are ugly like hell).
                            Love these materials, the wiring chapters will be very helpful. thx.


                            Originally posted by cug
                            As I said: I'm not an "audiophile" and I'm proud of it. I love good music and sound and it was my profession for 15 years but I'm not a believer in obscure crap made up by people who want to sell stuff for insane prices.
                            But, okay, that's my personal opinion and you're all free to have your own.
                            I am with your views 100%. My very first&best setup is my R1sc current +A3cr which I have been living quite happily with them for last 5 years. ( I replaced my Primere CDP with A5cd about a year ago ) Major issue has always been not able to house floor stand speakers at my previous home, neither I was motivated to audition one until my recent music are more classical and jazz than just vocals; and I knew I needed some extra sound stage for it.

                            I had made a final decision to take the KW which had absoluetly no relation with the A1008. But rather, it is whether I will continue to audition other brands of Amps or to live with the beloved MF brand ( at least, audtioned with my A5cd ). Thus, that was simply more my curiosity to try the KW series instead of the A series (and fears of getting other unknown brands falling too much into my audiophile friends influence. I am not an audiophile too.)

                            I got the KW delivered today and is already catching up my final two days of enjoying my friend's 804S which I will return to him tommorrow and get my R1sc back. I am still in the embrassment being still not coming to a conclusion to buy the Proac D28, the N804S, the N803S or something else (e.g Dynaudio C2). And, most importantly, as it is now proven after playing the KW on 804S, my A3cr was definitely not the right Amp to drive the 804S properly. So, changing the Amp has just been the right decision even I am keen to enjoy the R1sc for a while with a new Amp. Placement of the burning hot and bulky KW in my small sitting room is now seems to be a bigger issue than I am paying the KW's bill.


                            t

                            B&W 803S / MF KW-550 /MF A1008 CDP
                            Transparent Power Link MM
                            CSE RK-100 Power Conditioner / Powersnake Taipan Helix Vx / Arcolink 4030 2m
                            AudioNote ANvX Mark II RCA / XLO Limited Edition Mk II RCA
                            TAOC PTS-F Spike Plates for 803S / SolidSteel Audio Tables: 6.2x2+1xTable-B / Lynn Skeet Spike Plates for Racks

                            Comment

                            • cug
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2008
                              • 286

                              Originally posted by cntlaw
                              I also plan to put wall to wall carpet in this audio area.
                              Personally I like hardwood waaaayyy better. It looks better, it feels better, and because you can play around more, it's normally better for a listening room.

                              Originally posted by cntlaw
                              The worries of a friend's view on the D28 is its two-way design being inferior to the 804S.
                              What does your listening say? The inferior design that sounds better to your ears is the superior design for you! I personally love the 804S and did extensive tests before I got them. I know, if I ever do an update, it will be nothing below 802D. And this is highly unlikely.

                              Originally posted by cntlaw
                              At one instant, I even found the KW has turned female vocals to a over brighter tonal a bit .
                              As most scientific research (mainly blind ABX tests) conclude, amplifiers sound exactly the same if:

                              - they are used within their respective limits
                              - they are equalled in frequency response
                              - they are equalled in volume
                              - they never go into clipping during the test

                              This is exactly what I personally believe and found in fifteen years of work as a sound professional.

                              But as soon as you leave out extensive (and measured) equalization you need to get the amp you like. And you need something that fits your speakers. For me 100W are more than enough, I don't listen very loud.


                              Originally posted by cntlaw
                              Love these materials, the wiring chapters will be very helpful. thx.
                              What I personally got from that is: don't worry about cables as long as you get cables in the correct "size".

                              I actually have CAT cables and I really like them. Exceptional build quality, good look (they are flat on the floor, black and round) and good service. And I like to support the forum here.

                              Originally posted by cntlaw
                              I had made a final decision to take the KW which had absoluetly no relation with the A1008. But rather, it is whether I will continue to audition other brands of Amps or to live with the beloved MF brand ( at least, audtioned with my A5cd ). Thus, that was simply more my curiosity to try the KW series instead of the A series (and fears of getting other unknown brands falling too much into my audiophile friends influence. I am not an audiophile too.)
                              I'm so happy that I have no "fears" at all. I got the speakers I love, soon I'll have some equipment that has the power to drive them, I'll be happy.

                              Originally posted by cntlaw
                              I am still in the embrassment being still not coming to a conclusion to buy the Proac D28, the N804S, the N803S or something else (e.g Dynaudio C2). And, most importantly, as it is now proven after playing the KW on 804S, my A3cr was definitely not the right Amp to drive the 804S properly.
                              I see.

                              As I said: for my taste the 803[S/D] are a waste of money. The S not being good enough to make the upgrade from the 804S and the D not good enough to not spent the extra money for the 802D.

                              So, enjoy your new amp and keep us updated!

                              Comment

                              • cntlaw
                                Member
                                • Mar 2008
                                • 80

                                Originally posted by cug
                                ........As I said: for my taste the 803[S/D] are a waste of money. The S not being good enough to make the upgrade from the 804S and the D not good enough to not spent the extra money for the 802D.

                                So, enjoy your new amp and keep us updated!
                                Thx.

                                My audio upgrade project is now getting 'very critical'. ops:
                                There has been some really intensive studies, consultations, auditions in past week on speakers selections. ( Can't believe names like PMC, ATC , Wilson-benesch's Curve, Linn's ARTIKULAT all coming into the list as a sudden!)

                                After returned the N804S to my friend, I have connected my Proac Response 1sc to the KW Amp. It doesn't take a A/B test to verify if the A3cr or the KW is better for the bookshelf R1sc. The R1sc could have sounded much better in many power overflow instances if it were a A1008 instead of the KW. Anyway, I never did bother to re-connect the A3cr to the R1sc again, as the new speakers decision must be finalized.

                                An audition of the N803S yesterday at B&W showroom was a disaster. The N803S were stood up without the spikes, or may be the Classe 202 Amp being used is just not the right power for the 803S? So, if the decision is the 803S, then I have to base on my test with the 804S at home in the past 2 weeks. (And, this side of the Earth shares the same points as you do, 803S is hardly good enough to be an upgrade from 804S. Neither the 803D has been very popular here, most people get the 802D or 804S.)

                                I re-auditioned the Proac D28 today.
                                The shop still connected the D28 with KW550, A5.5cd like the first time auditioning the D28. The only 'difference' this time was I am coming from a week's 804S+KW background instead of 5 years with the R1sc+A3cr! The D28 vocals still sounds more impressive over the 804S, except this may no longer be as key as it used to be.

                                Frankly speaking, 804S and D28 are equally priced here, but many say the 804S is already overpriced.

                                Decisions:
                                1. D28
                                Pros: My confidence on Proac vocals
                                Cons: Not a popular brand here than the B&W and I might miss the rich sound stage of 804S I really loved it during my last week's test
                                2. 804S
                                Pros: Better Price/Performance over 803S and it is a new experience to me
                                Cons: 804 Fatter bass means I might enjoy the D28 solid bass more for pop and rock and a duplicate with my next door ops:
                                3. 803S
                                Pros: Really none but still the popular B&W model in the market
                                Cons: Worse Price/Performance

                                There might be a decision tommorrow. :W

                                t

                                Photo, the 3-seaters sofa replaced by a 2-seaters



                                Photo, reconnected R1sc to KW, the A3cr all ready for disposal:

                                B&W 803S / MF KW-550 /MF A1008 CDP
                                Transparent Power Link MM
                                CSE RK-100 Power Conditioner / Powersnake Taipan Helix Vx / Arcolink 4030 2m
                                AudioNote ANvX Mark II RCA / XLO Limited Edition Mk II RCA
                                TAOC PTS-F Spike Plates for 803S / SolidSteel Audio Tables: 6.2x2+1xTable-B / Lynn Skeet Spike Plates for Racks

                                Comment

                                • cug
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Jan 2008
                                  • 286

                                  Originally posted by cntlaw
                                  An audition of the N803S yesterday at B&W showroom was a disaster. The N803S were stood up without the spikes, or may be the Classe 202 Amp being used is just not the right power for the 803S? So, if the decision is the 803S, then I have to base on my test with the 804S at home in the past 2 weeks. (And, this side of the Earth shares the same points as you do, 803S is hardly good enough to be an upgrade from 804S. Neither the 803D has been very popular here, most people get the 802D or 804S.)
                                  As I said: in my very personal opinion the 803S or 803D are a total waste of money. The 803S is not any "better" than the 804S, just a bit different and definitely WAY to expensive. The 803D could have been good, but its over-emphasized bass doesn't sound natural and the totally laid back diamond tweeter is a waste: it costs money without being a real benefit.

                                  I guess, again, that is just my personal opinion: if B&W hadn't made the frequency response such a bad joke, the 802D wouldn't have been as popular as it is. The 803D has the potential to be a great speaker, but it totally falls out of the very neutral, clear and revealing 800 line: it's too boomy, highs are not clear enough (laid back, dampened) and so on. Argl ...

                                  I love the 804S, the 803S is good, but not good enough for an upgrade, the 803D is artificially made "different" and the 802D is the next speaker in the 800 line for me that meets my own taste. Above that, I again have to say it's not worth the money for me. And even the 802D is great, but I'd rather spend the saved money in CDs, opera/concert tickets, nice vacation, savings plan, restaurants, ... you name it.

                                  If you love good female voices (I totally do), you should listen to the Totem Forest if you have a chance. They are surprisingly good for such a small speaker. And place a single singer very nicely in the room. Not perfect for big orchestras or rock bands though.

                                  Which songs are you using for your listening tests? I often listen to Diana Krall, Jane Monheit, Norah Jones, Eva Cassidy. Diana Krall on Totem Forest speakers is just amazing. Overall the 804S is a league above, but still - I can understand people preferring the Forests if they only listen to that kind of music. The 804S is very revealing and some people don't like that sooo much.

                                  Comment

                                  • cntlaw
                                    Member
                                    • Mar 2008
                                    • 80

                                    Originally posted by cug
                                    ..............If you love good female voices (I totally do), you should listen to the Totem Forest if you have a chance. They are surprisingly good for such a small speaker. And place a single singer very nicely in the room. Not perfect for big orchestras or rock bands though.

                                    Which songs are you using for your listening tests? I often listen to Diana Krall, Jane Monheit, Norah Jones, Eva Cassidy. Diana Krall on Totem Forest speakers is just amazing. Overall the 804S is a league above, but still - I can understand people preferring the Forests if they only listen to that kind of music. The 804S is very revealing and some people don't like that sooo much.
                                    I pointed out eariler on, quite funny, when look back, really unintentionally, I started listening more female voices over male vocals was possibly mainly due to the fact that the R1sc wasn't really properly housed for the minimal sound stage for more complex music (which I love). The main reason I am going floor stand speakers is to give a better sound stage playback for my pop and rock collections: Eagles, Pink Floyd, and favorite rock guitarists like Yngwie J. Malmstein , as well as to satisfy the rise of my increasing keen on classical music; where it was all come to a pause when I found them no more excitement from improper placement of smaller speakers .

                                    During the days of R1sc+A3cr, I tend to stick to a number of classic voices from Carpenters, Joan Baez, Judy Collins and recently Norah Jones, Eva Cassidy (less) and some many new audiophile voices recordings of China local singers. I must say, I love the male vocals on the 804S more than on the D28 for some instances.

                                    Have spent weeks to remove a 11 ft. long over 500 lbs cabinet, packed away all the CDs and stuff used to be there, got rid of one big 3-seaters sofa, thrown away a dining table, disconnected my surround AV system, reversed the sitting room position 90 degree, swapping speakers with my neighbors back and fore, still have to relocate the turtles tank; and I finally 'found' a close to symmetric arrangement for the audio. The speakers will now be 2 ft from the side walls , 6 ft apart and ~4ft from the window glass and a listening distance from 8-15 ft. Whether it is a D28 or a 803/804 , I guess it will be a new beginning for me and my music.

                                    I did play with my friend's filtered power supply for the A5cd for an hour. I must say it does affect the sound characteristics and the voices, strings instruments, not so much on overall sound quality differences. Voices seems to sound sweeter when I avoided to plug into AC adaptors with fuse...

                                    B&W 803S / MF KW-550 /MF A1008 CDP
                                    Transparent Power Link MM
                                    CSE RK-100 Power Conditioner / Powersnake Taipan Helix Vx / Arcolink 4030 2m
                                    AudioNote ANvX Mark II RCA / XLO Limited Edition Mk II RCA
                                    TAOC PTS-F Spike Plates for 803S / SolidSteel Audio Tables: 6.2x2+1xTable-B / Lynn Skeet Spike Plates for Racks

                                    Comment

                                    • cntlaw
                                      Member
                                      • Mar 2008
                                      • 80

                                      [QUOTE=cug].......What I'll have in a couple of days is:

                                      - A5 integrated amp
                                      - A5 cd player
                                      - B&W 804S
                                      - CAT cables (CATtails, and copper interconnects) for their good build quality
                                      ..QUOTE]

                                      cug

                                      Any findings to share if you have auditioned A5cd, A5.5cd and A1008cd?

                                      t

                                      B&W 803S / MF KW-550 /MF A1008 CDP
                                      Transparent Power Link MM
                                      CSE RK-100 Power Conditioner / Powersnake Taipan Helix Vx / Arcolink 4030 2m
                                      AudioNote ANvX Mark II RCA / XLO Limited Edition Mk II RCA
                                      TAOC PTS-F Spike Plates for 803S / SolidSteel Audio Tables: 6.2x2+1xTable-B / Lynn Skeet Spike Plates for Racks

                                      Comment

                                      • cug
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Jan 2008
                                        • 286

                                        Originally posted by cntlaw
                                        Any findings to share if you have auditioned A5cd, A5.5cd and A1008cd?
                                        I didn't compare the different players. The A5 cd was something I added without auditioning after hearing the A5 integrated because I wanted to replace my Rotel RA-1062 with something that has a bit more power. So, I don't know how the A5 cd sounds.

                                        When I get the components tomorrow, I'll make some intensive comparisons to my Rotel RA-1062 / RDC-1072 equipment and write a review on my blog. When I decided to the the A5 integrated, I listened to a lot of other equipment, including Classé and McIntosh but there I found the prices to be totally insane without having any real sound advantage. And as the A5 cd got raving reviews and I could get both together on Audiogon for an okay price I added it for the "look".

                                        Comment

                                        • cntlaw
                                          Member
                                          • Mar 2008
                                          • 80

                                          cug

                                          I am happy with my A5cd, at least all my CDs old and new sound better on it than the Primiere D20 I used to have. Just sold all my old equipment over the weekend. Have met amazing people coming in to my home didn't ask many questions but only left me bunches of cash and took my toys away. Pretty lonely now with a new amp and no loudspeakers. I am still in mid of 803/804 and wanted to audition the PMC OB1i, any comments on PMC speakers vs B&W. And, how good/bad is 803S in terms of how easy/hard is the A1008 can control the bass sound stage.

                                          have a nice day.

                                          t

                                          B&W 803S / MF KW-550 /MF A1008 CDP
                                          Transparent Power Link MM
                                          CSE RK-100 Power Conditioner / Powersnake Taipan Helix Vx / Arcolink 4030 2m
                                          AudioNote ANvX Mark II RCA / XLO Limited Edition Mk II RCA
                                          TAOC PTS-F Spike Plates for 803S / SolidSteel Audio Tables: 6.2x2+1xTable-B / Lynn Skeet Spike Plates for Racks

                                          Comment

                                          • cug
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Jan 2008
                                            • 286

                                            Originally posted by cntlaw
                                            cug

                                            I am happy with my A5cd, at least all my CDs old and new sound better on it than the Primiere D20 I used to have. Just sold all my old equipment over the weekend. Have met amazing people coming in to my home didn't ask many questions but only left me bunches of cash and took my toys away. Pretty lonely now with a new amp and no loudspeakers. I am still in mid of 803/804 and wanted to audition the PMC OB1i, any comments on PMC speakers vs B&W. And, how good/bad is 803S in terms of how easy/hard is the A1008 can control the bass sound stage.

                                            have a nice day.

                                            t
                                            I don't know how hard to drive the 803S is, I only know that the 802D presents a horrible load for amplifiers that can't handle low impedance (the Musical Fidelity all can).

                                            About the PMCs I don't know anything. I'm only really comfortable in the B&W line and comfortable in Martin Logan and Totem and heard a lot of selected speakers in the same price/quality range of the 804S from various brands. I know that for my taste the 804S for is an exceptional speaker for the value, something I can't say for the 803S/803D.

                                            If you really going to spent that much money: go for the 802D, not the 803D. Or stay with the 804S and spend the saved money in a nice vacation or in music.

                                            Have a great Sunday!

                                            Comment

                                            • gauss
                                              Junior Member
                                              • Jun 2005
                                              • 19

                                              Originally posted by cntlaw
                                              I pointed out eariler on, quite funny, when look back, really unintentionally, I started listening more female voices over male vocals was possibly mainly due to the fact that the R1sc wasn't really properly housed for the minimal sound stage for more complex music (which I love). The main reason I am going floor stand speakers is to give a better sound stage playback for my pop and rock collections: Eagles, Pink Floyd, and favorite rock guitarists like Yngwie J. Malmstein , as well as to satisfy the rise of my increasing keen on classical music; where it was all come to a pause when I found them no more excitement from improper placement of smaller speakers .

                                              During the days of R1sc+A3cr, I tend to stick to a number of classic voices from Carpenters, Joan Baez, Judy Collins and recently Norah Jones, Eva Cassidy (less) and some many new audiophile voices recordings of China local singers. I must say, I love the male vocals on the 804S more than on the D28 for some instances.

                                              Have spent weeks to remove a 11 ft. long over 500 lbs cabinet, packed away all the CDs and stuff used to be there, got rid of one big 3-seaters sofa, thrown away a dining table, disconnected my surround AV system, reversed the sitting room position 90 degree, swapping speakers with my neighbors back and fore, still have to relocate the turtles tank; and I finally 'found' a close to symmetric arrangement for the audio. The speakers will now be 2 ft from the side walls , 6 ft apart and ~4ft from the window glass and a listening distance from 8-15 ft. Whether it is a D28 or a 803/804 , I guess it will be a new beginning for me and my music.

                                              I did play with my friend's filtered power supply for the A5cd for an hour. I must say it does affect the sound characteristics and the voices, strings instruments, not so much on overall sound quality differences. Voices seems to sound sweeter when I avoided to plug into AC adaptors with fuse...
                                              Could you please describe what you consider the main differences between B&W 804/803S and ProAc D28? I currently own the 803S and have recently began looking for a new speaker, my shortlist include Revel F32 as well as ProAc D28. The reason for looking for a new speaker is that even though the 803S is a very good speaker, they don't quite make the best out of my classic rock collection. They also tend to make some instruments (and perhaps to a greater degree certain voices) larger than life. In addition, for my room of about 28 square metres, the 803S are slightly too large, occasionally overloading the room with bass. There's also a tendency towards what I perceive to be an upper midrange brightness which cause me to either experience listening fatigue or turn the volume down.

                                              Unfortunately I don't have any ProAc dealers close by, so any input on how D28 compare to B&Ws would be greatly appreciated.

                                              I'm currently trying out the Revel F32's in my own system and they do make my classic rock collection (and other less stellar recordings) sound slightly better (or at least different). With the B&Ws I'm concerned about the volume level, frequently I have to turn the volume down. Not so with the Revels. The drawback is that classical music don't sound right through the Revels, in particular strings and wind instruments sound harsh and less full.

                                              The question is if ProAc D28 may fit the bill?

                                              Comment

                                              • cntlaw
                                                Member
                                                • Mar 2008
                                                • 80

                                                Originally posted by gauss
                                                ..........The question is if ProAc D28 may fit the bill?
                                                Hi

                                                The audition of 803S at the showroom last week was a failure. May be the Classe 202 didn't work quite right or because they didn't even have spikes for the 803S. Thus, I can not make a fair comment on the 803S.

                                                I tested my friends 804S at my home sitting room (~same size as yours) for the last two weeks with KW550. Yes, B&W speakers are definitely 'fat bass', though doesn't bother me, I didn't hear the drums are too solid when playing classic rock like Deep Purple, but the sound stage of 804S had impressed me when I played Pink Floyd's Shine On Your Crazy Diamond.

                                                I also auditioned the D28 with A1008 twice in the showroom. They had a small test room, the D28 was placed 5 foot apart and the listening distance was about 6-7 feet. As I am coming from Response 1sc, the D28 female vocals imemdiate sound familiar but definitely richer(better).

                                                I played Yngwie Malmstien 's Fire And Ice CD ( first two tracks) during the D28 audition. 3 of us, we all observed the D28 has stronger bass and was very able to produce exciting electric guitar sounds like I was in front of Malmstien 's Marshal Amplifiers!
                                                I didn't hear the same guitars sound from the 804S at home (naturally).
                                                Not a question, male rock vocals sound exactly like male rock vocals on the D28. You will love to hear AC/DC on the D28.

                                                D28 could be a much easier speakers to drive and is very capable for reproducing the more 'musical' rock music.
                                                ( Someone might say, we need a JBL for dance music , no !)

                                                My friend had almost thought the D28 has an 8" bass driver, but the truth is, it is a 6.5" but the driver's drum skin edge is observed to be those(woofer) with thick edge allowing 'larger displacement' i.e. for playing loud !

                                                Before you decide on the D28, please audition the PMC FB1i

                                                PMC FB1i is a two way design like the D28, the OMC i-Series is all new.
                                                Both Proac and PMC are "monitors".

                                                Keep me posted about your D28 impression if you do audition one.


                                                t

                                                B&W 803S / MF KW-550 /MF A1008 CDP
                                                Transparent Power Link MM
                                                CSE RK-100 Power Conditioner / Powersnake Taipan Helix Vx / Arcolink 4030 2m
                                                AudioNote ANvX Mark II RCA / XLO Limited Edition Mk II RCA
                                                TAOC PTS-F Spike Plates for 803S / SolidSteel Audio Tables: 6.2x2+1xTable-B / Lynn Skeet Spike Plates for Racks

                                                Comment

                                                • cug
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • Jan 2008
                                                  • 286

                                                  Originally posted by cntlaw
                                                  I tested my friends 804S at my home sitting room (~same size as yours) for the last two weeks with KW550. Yes, B&W speakers are definitely 'fat bass', though doesn't bother me, I didn't hear the drums are too solid when playing classic rock like Deep Purple, but the sound stage of 804S had impressed me when I played Pink Floyd's Shine On Your Crazy Diamond.
                                                  Ooops. I think you're the first person I heard saying that B&W are "fat bass". They are normally described as very neutral, the 804S sometimes as "lacking a bit punch".

                                                  In my experience they have a very solid bass, not too much, but just enough for my taste and music.

                                                  Not a question, male rock vocals, it sounds much better on the D28.
                                                  But that's "for your taste", right?

                                                  I didn't find any speaker in my listening tests that reproduced voices (male and female) nicer for me and my personal taste than B&W speakers in their respective price ranges (up to 802D, excluding 803D). But I obviously didn't test every speaker on the market. Just a few of them. And I always liked the B&W sound. (Picked my first pair in 1988 from about 10 different speakers with blind testing, not knowing what was playing. I picked Matrix III as my first choice and Matrix II as my second. As I couldn't afford the III, I got the Matrix II.)

                                                  Just to put that in here: Sound is always a matter of perception and taste.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • cug
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Jan 2008
                                                    • 286

                                                    Oh, and 803S without spikes (on carpet, right?) - I wouldn't buy anything at that store anymore.
                                                    Last edited by cug; 21 April 2008, 14:05 Monday. Reason: Typos

                                                    Comment

                                                    • cntlaw
                                                      Member
                                                      • Mar 2008
                                                      • 80

                                                      Originally posted by cug
                                                      .....I only know that the 802D presents a horrible load for amplifiers that can't handle low impedance (the Musical Fidelity all can).
                                                      ...!

                                                      I audtioned the 802D yesterday. Again, another failure due to the same Classe 202 was used. Guess you are right, the 802D audtion with 202 was no better than the 803D one using the top of the line Classe Amps!
                                                      Despite the difficutly of physical placement or the 802D strong bass, my impression with the 802D is it is overall 'too loud' for a small sitting room.

                                                      I decided to leave the "more safe" D28 and take the B&W as my first floor-stand speakers. Not so much to prove that I am wrong, but it is there are certain "sounds" of the B&W I love about, may be I just love the "fat bass" so my ears won't get too tired for extended listening and I do play loud muisc often.

                                                      Spent so much effort to clear the room (shifted the turtles tank today), the audio refresh project must move on. I have ordered the 803S with my finger-crossed it goes well with the KW. Or my friend with the 804S seems to be happy to make up the difference if ever I wanna trade my 803S with his 804S. He has only used the 804S for a few months and the price has gone up 20% ever since (due to weak HKD to Euro). If ever that happens, I still have a chance to trade the 804S with a D28 without losing much or not at all.

                                                      I will get a loaner 803S in next couple of days as the Cherry Wood 803S I want takes 2 weeks to deliver.

                                                      t

                                                      B&W 803S / MF KW-550 /MF A1008 CDP
                                                      Transparent Power Link MM
                                                      CSE RK-100 Power Conditioner / Powersnake Taipan Helix Vx / Arcolink 4030 2m
                                                      AudioNote ANvX Mark II RCA / XLO Limited Edition Mk II RCA
                                                      TAOC PTS-F Spike Plates for 803S / SolidSteel Audio Tables: 6.2x2+1xTable-B / Lynn Skeet Spike Plates for Racks

                                                      Comment

                                                      • cug
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Jan 2008
                                                        • 286

                                                        Hey, that's great. Hope you enjoy your new speakers then!

                                                        I just got my A5 integrated and cd player delivered - have them standing here in the office and will try them tonight at home. Can't wait for it ...

                                                        Comment

                                                        • cntlaw
                                                          Member
                                                          • Mar 2008
                                                          • 80

                                                          Originally posted by cug
                                                          Oh, and 803S without spikes (on carpet, right?) - I wouldn't buy anything at that store anymore.

                                                          I didn't want the Rose Nut color not because I don't like it. It is only because my floor is Rose Nut color :B , so no contrast!
                                                          Actually, I was shouting at this guy on the phone when he told me it takes 2 weeks to ship a pair of Cherry wood 803S speakers from a nearby city in China (the warehouse) where they can always do s special delivery in a day.
                                                          May be my temper has exchanged that I am offered a loaner pair ! :B

                                                          B&W is a sole agent in HK. A small office with 2 guys. They do not let other audio shops in HK to do distribution. You know what it is like if you were the only guy in England has Mercedes Benz to sell. :W

                                                          Congrats to your coming refresh. Keep me posted what you think about A5cd with A1008 and 804S as we have systems of same blood. :

                                                          t

                                                          B&W 803S / MF KW-550 /MF A1008 CDP
                                                          Transparent Power Link MM
                                                          CSE RK-100 Power Conditioner / Powersnake Taipan Helix Vx / Arcolink 4030 2m
                                                          AudioNote ANvX Mark II RCA / XLO Limited Edition Mk II RCA
                                                          TAOC PTS-F Spike Plates for 803S / SolidSteel Audio Tables: 6.2x2+1xTable-B / Lynn Skeet Spike Plates for Racks

                                                          Comment

                                                          • cug
                                                            Senior Member
                                                            • Jan 2008
                                                            • 286

                                                            Oh, I don't have the A1008 amplifier. It's an A5 integrated. Not even the 5.5. But I'll keep you updated!

                                                            Regarding HK: yeah, and I thought living in Calgary is comparable to living on the moon ... ;-)

                                                            Comment

                                                            • gauss
                                                              Junior Member
                                                              • Jun 2005
                                                              • 19

                                                              Originally posted by cntlaw
                                                              Hi


                                                              Before you decide on the D28, please audition the PMC FB1i

                                                              PMC FB1i is a two way design like the D28, the OMC i-Series is all new.
                                                              Both Proac and PMC are "monitors".

                                                              Keep me posted about your D28 impression if you do audition one.


                                                              t
                                                              I have a pair of FB1+ in another system and have previously owned the OB1 (switched it for the FB1+). FB1+ don't have enough bass for my needs, although the midrange reproduction suits some music very well. OB1 was kind of sterile sounding, FB1+ was much more involving. OB1 could however play insanely loud without losing composure or sounding harsh but it never engaged me. The problem with FB1+ is that the midrange is kind of less full and the bass is very lean. PMC claim bass output down to 28Hz but subjectively, roll off begins quite early.

                                                              I'm sure you will become satisfied with your choice of 803S, it's definitely one of the best out there.

                                                              The only problem is in the midrange which can at times be forward in my room. I certainly prefer it for classical music (which is also important for me, I listen to almost every genre) but for classical rock and poor recordings I prefer Revel F32 so far. How allround is the ProAc D28? Is there any genre it's less well suited for?

                                                              Comment

                                                              • cug
                                                                Senior Member
                                                                • Jan 2008
                                                                • 286

                                                                A5 CD Player question

                                                                Has anybody here had a similar problem: with my new A5 cd player, the "open / close" button doesn't work reliably. In around 60 to 70% of the time, it doesn't work. I have to press the button a couple of times until it works. It doesn't matter whether I push hard of soft, at any angle or whatever. It works only sometimes.

                                                                But, nevertheless: first impression is very positive with the A5 integrated and A5 CD player compared to Rotel RA-1062/RCD-1072. Soundstage is wider, high frequencies clearer and still the sound is warmer.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Guy
                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                  • Jan 2006
                                                                  • 107

                                                                  Originally posted by cug
                                                                  Has anybody here had a similar problem: with my new A5 cd player, the "open / close" button doesn't work reliably. In around 60 to 70% of the time, it doesn't work. I have to press the button a couple of times until it works. It doesn't matter whether I push hard of soft, at any angle or whatever. It works only sometimes.

                                                                  But, nevertheless: first impression is very positive with the A5 integrated and A5 CD player compared to Rotel RA-1062/RCD-1072. Soundstage is wider, high frequencies clearer and still the sound is warmer.
                                                                  My A5 definately does not have this problem. Since it is new I would just get it replaced.

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • alebonau
                                                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                                                    • Oct 2005
                                                                    • 992

                                                                    Originally posted by cug
                                                                    Has anybody here had a similar problem: with my new A5 cd player, the "open / close" button doesn't work reliably. In around 60 to 70% of the time, it doesn't work. I have to press the button a couple of times until it works. It doesn't matter whether I push hard of soft, at any angle or whatever. It works only sometimes.

                                                                    But, nevertheless: first impression is very positive with the A5 integrated and A5 CD player compared to Rotel RA-1062/RCD-1072. Soundstage is wider, high frequencies clearer and still the sound is warmer.
                                                                    no probs wiht mine either. I'd get yours swapped. good to hear your enjoying the sound regardless
                                                                    "Technology is a drug. We can't get enough of it."

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • cntlaw
                                                                      Member
                                                                      • Mar 2008
                                                                      • 80

                                                                      Originally posted by cug
                                                                      Has anybody here had a similar problem: with my new A5 cd player, the "open / close" button doesn't work reliably. In around 60 to 70% of the time, it doesn't work. I have to press the button a couple of times until it works. It doesn't matter whether I push hard of soft, at any angle or whatever. It works only sometimes.

                                                                      But, nevertheless: first impression is very positive with the A5 integrated and A5 CD player compared to Rotel RA-1062/RCD-1072. Soundstage is wider, high frequencies clearer and still the sound is warmer.

                                                                      I recently found the open function not working sometime, may be just a weak battery or there are blockages between the remote and the receiver... but the A5cd definitely likes to "hang" when it gets confused e.g. put a SACD into it , the A5cd will hang. Just power on/off it, all problems will be gone. None of these issues really bother me because they happen since day-1 and are not too frequent.

                                                                      Instead of getting the loaner 804S, B&W HK informed me they can give me the Cherrywood 803S of my own order tommorrow! :W

                                                                      Some changes to the room:
                                                                      - shifted the turtle tank to the left side ( big job yesterday)
                                                                      - relocated the KW550 to the windows bench leaving the power unit in the corner
                                                                      - cleared some garbages, sold the A3cr, R1sc/stands
                                                                      - loaned a clean power regenerator for the A5cd


                                                                      Time for rock'n'roll !



                                                                      B&W 803S / MF KW-550 /MF A1008 CDP
                                                                      Transparent Power Link MM
                                                                      CSE RK-100 Power Conditioner / Powersnake Taipan Helix Vx / Arcolink 4030 2m
                                                                      AudioNote ANvX Mark II RCA / XLO Limited Edition Mk II RCA
                                                                      TAOC PTS-F Spike Plates for 803S / SolidSteel Audio Tables: 6.2x2+1xTable-B / Lynn Skeet Spike Plates for Racks

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • cntlaw
                                                                        Member
                                                                        • Mar 2008
                                                                        • 80

                                                                        Originally posted by gauss
                                                                        I have a pair of FB1+ in another system and have previously owned the OB1 (switched it for the FB1+). ...........I'm sure you will become satisfied with your choice of 803S, it's definitely one of the best out there.
                                                                        ................How allround is the ProAc D28? Is there any genre it's less well suited for?
                                                                        IMHO, D28 is more "all around" than 804S.
                                                                        However, the 804S thicker strings sounds ( e.g. 5th and 6th strings of guitars or cellos) impressed me over the limited R1sc and that had concluded my try of the B&W over D28 along with my increasing interest in classical Cds.

                                                                        I am not too good to write an audition report. What I can point out is, pop&rock music just won't sound right on the R1sc but it sounds superb on the D28.

                                                                        I auditioned the D28 with my favorite CDs of big varieties: Malmstien(Fire & Ice), Joan Baez(Diamonds and Rust, stuido/live), Carpenters(Superstar), Dire Straits( Private Investigations), Dovrak(Sympathy#9), 2 Jazz CD......Guitars sounds are sharp and clear but still a lot thicker than the R1sc.

                                                                        Vocals (female) are just as sweet and warmer than the R1sc.
                                                                        Yes, I was wrongly pointed out to cug, the general male vocals should sound better on the B&Ws as they are thicker.

                                                                        For classical music it is warmer than the R1sc and it is a "quicker" speakers than the 804S in classical music playback.

                                                                        I am keen to know the major differences of PMC i-Series FB1i and OB1i comparing the previous FB1 and OB1.
                                                                        I have never auditioned any PMC speakers, but I will go to audition the FB1i and OB1i soon.

                                                                        t

                                                                        B&W 803S / MF KW-550 /MF A1008 CDP
                                                                        Transparent Power Link MM
                                                                        CSE RK-100 Power Conditioner / Powersnake Taipan Helix Vx / Arcolink 4030 2m
                                                                        AudioNote ANvX Mark II RCA / XLO Limited Edition Mk II RCA
                                                                        TAOC PTS-F Spike Plates for 803S / SolidSteel Audio Tables: 6.2x2+1xTable-B / Lynn Skeet Spike Plates for Racks

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • cntlaw
                                                                          Member
                                                                          • Mar 2008
                                                                          • 80

                                                                          Originally posted by cug
                                                                          Oh, I don't have the A1008 amplifier. It's an A5 integrated. Not even the 5.5. But I'll keep you updated!

                                                                          Regarding HK: yeah, and I thought living in Calgary is comparable to living on the moon ... ;-)
                                                                          I am impressed by A1008's optical I/O which I can possibly plug my AV Amp front pre out into the A1008 to save a lot of the hassles. In any events, though unlikely, but if I do fall back to smaller speakers than the 803S, I will definitely consider the A1008 and D28 again.

                                                                          Ha ! A HK colleague who went to Calgary 20 years ago, never wanted to come back here. Your air must be refresher.

                                                                          B&W 803S / MF KW-550 /MF A1008 CDP
                                                                          Transparent Power Link MM
                                                                          CSE RK-100 Power Conditioner / Powersnake Taipan Helix Vx / Arcolink 4030 2m
                                                                          AudioNote ANvX Mark II RCA / XLO Limited Edition Mk II RCA
                                                                          TAOC PTS-F Spike Plates for 803S / SolidSteel Audio Tables: 6.2x2+1xTable-B / Lynn Skeet Spike Plates for Racks

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • cug
                                                                            Senior Member
                                                                            • Jan 2008
                                                                            • 286

                                                                            The problem with my player not opening / closing doesn't have anything to do with CDs inserted. I turned it on this morning and it took me about five "pushes" to open the cd drawer. Another four to close it again. That can't be right!

                                                                            I had no problem reading my Dire Straits "Brothers In Arms" SACD. It didn't read my 1986 original though. And it didn't read CDs that are "gold coloured". Don't know why, but these were the problems we found yesterday. Now we have to send it back and get a replacement here. *grmbl*

                                                                            You view is pretty nice!

                                                                            Calgary is not too bad, very dry, long winter but sunny most of the time. And the mountains are nearby so weekend activity is mostly outdoors which is great.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • cntlaw
                                                                              Member
                                                                              • Mar 2008
                                                                              • 80

                                                                              Originally posted by cug
                                                                              ...I had no problem reading my Dire Straits "Brothers In Arms" SACD. It didn't read my 1986 original though. And it didn't read CDs that are "gold coloured". Don't know why,....

                                                                              Yes, it sounds you do have a disc read issue.
                                                                              Btw, would that be your SACD might be a Hybrid, my A5cd hangs if I put a real SACD into it.
                                                                              My A5cd can read black cd, guess gold should be fine...
                                                                              Last edited by cntlaw; 22 April 2008, 23:18 Tuesday.

                                                                              B&W 803S / MF KW-550 /MF A1008 CDP
                                                                              Transparent Power Link MM
                                                                              CSE RK-100 Power Conditioner / Powersnake Taipan Helix Vx / Arcolink 4030 2m
                                                                              AudioNote ANvX Mark II RCA / XLO Limited Edition Mk II RCA
                                                                              TAOC PTS-F Spike Plates for 803S / SolidSteel Audio Tables: 6.2x2+1xTable-B / Lynn Skeet Spike Plates for Racks

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • cug
                                                                                Senior Member
                                                                                • Jan 2008
                                                                                • 286

                                                                                Originally posted by cntlaw
                                                                                Yes, it sounds you do have a disc read issue.
                                                                                Btw, would that be your SACD might be a Hybrid, my A5cd hangs if I put a real SACD into it.
                                                                                My A5cd can read black cd, guess gold should be fine...
                                                                                I really don't know what's wrong with that player, but it goes back on the road directly to Musical Fidelity in the States tomorrow and I'll hopefully get a working replacement soon. Hate that this happened.

                                                                                At least the amplifier is working fine.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • cug
                                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                                  • Jan 2008
                                                                                  • 286

                                                                                  So, another comparison. The A5 CD player is packed and ready to leave again. Now I have the Rotel RCD-1072 hooked up to the A5 integrated. The sounded degraded noticeably - the main sound difference came from the A5 CD player not the amplifier.

                                                                                  Unofficial conclusion right now:

                                                                                  - Amplifiers don't make a big difference, the A5 sounds slightly different (mainly easier when going really loud and just a tick less "sibilant") than the RA-1062 which is a remarkable piece for the price. I compared the RA-1062 to several other Rotel amps and there was no audible difference. With the A5, there is a difference, I guess the A5 has a better pre-amp part, the power amp has more muscle and the combination makes the slight difference. As I didn't pay full retail but got the A5 it for a very good price, it was worth the upgrade.

                                                                                  - The A5 CD made WAY more difference than the amplifier. Interesting enough, it sounds both more brilliant AND warmer. Also it seems, that its output stage is better as I just listen to a Pavarotti CD where the RCD-1072 has a problem delivering the really loud passages to the amp (it seems, that the CD player runs into some kind of slight distortion when Luciano sings in his high and loud octaves) while the A5 didn't show that - so I don't think it's a problem in the recording. Very interesting.

                                                                                  Okay, overall, the A5 combo has a retail about 4.5 times that of the RA-1062/RCD-1072 combo, so I guess I could get some better sound. Actually I got a bigger difference than expected. Not right now, but when I have a working A5 CD player.

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • gc8ej25
                                                                                    Member
                                                                                    • Nov 2007
                                                                                    • 43

                                                                                    Does anyone have any experience with a X-A200 monoblock?

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • alebonau
                                                                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                      • Oct 2005
                                                                                      • 992

                                                                                      Originally posted by gc8ej25
                                                                                      Does anyone have any experience with a X-A200 monoblock?
                                                                                      grown up xa50 mono blocs wihtout the tubes the xa50 had and the xa200 have a lot more grunt behind them.

                                                                                      would suit a small floorstander or quality bookshelves. a bit of a favourite in hte older mf gear.
                                                                                      "Technology is a drug. We can't get enough of it."

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • cntlaw
                                                                                        Member
                                                                                        • Mar 2008
                                                                                        • 80

                                                                                        Originally posted by cug
                                                                                        So, another comparison. The A5 CD player is packed and ready to leave again. Now I have the Rotel RCD-1072 hooked up to the A5 integrated. The sounded degraded noticeably - the main sound difference came from the A5 CD player not the amplifier.

                                                                                        Unofficial conclusion right now:

                                                                                        - Amplifiers don't make a big difference, the A5 sounds slightly different (mainly easier when going really loud and just a tick less "sibilant") than the RA-1062 which is a remarkable piece for the price. I compared the RA-1062 to several other Rotel amps and there was no audible difference. With the A5, there is a difference, I guess the A5 has a better pre-amp part, the power amp has more muscle and the combination makes the slight difference. As I didn't pay full retail but got the A5 it for a very good price, it was worth the upgrade.

                                                                                        - The A5 CD made WAY more difference than the amplifier. Interesting enough, it sounds both more brilliant AND warmer. Also it seems, that its output stage is better as I just listen to a Pavarotti CD where the RCD-1072 has a problem delivering the really loud passages to the amp (it seems, that the CD player runs into some kind of slight distortion when Luciano sings in his high and loud octaves) while the A5 didn't show that - so I don't think it's a problem in the recording. Very interesting.

                                                                                        Okay, overall, the A5 combo has a retail about 4.5 times that of the RA-1062/RCD-1072 combo, so I guess I could get some better sound. Actually I got a bigger difference than expected. Not right now, but when I have a working A5 CD player.
                                                                                        Your report shows almost exactly my first experience with the A5cd. I was coming from a very warm and nice Premiere D20 ( the D30 with Balanced outputs is very famous but more expensive) major in nice female vocals. Before I migrated to A5cd, I was worrying A5cd will lose that D20 sweet vocals I love, but actually it is not true. A5cd is truly a all around hi fi player even for a very picky audiophile. I probably had paid much more 2 years ago for the A5cd, so I am losing big if I were to trade it for another CDP. This my player will do for a long while soon as I improve the external power supply.
                                                                                        MF Amp sound should be more 'punchy', again, it is a MF , so it is neutral.

                                                                                        Today is my big day!

                                                                                        Without too much effort to burn it in, the 803S is already very listenable! I know I should stay away from the temptations and put a burn-in CD....
                                                                                        The very first song impressed me today on the just open box 803S is the Private Investigation of Dire Straits, the last few drums beats really couldn't say B&W are 'fat bass'! ops:

                                                                                        And, you know what it is like for a guy like me coming from a Proac Response 1sc for years to now a gaint B&W floor stand. Just couldn't resist to keep playing the 6th track of the Four Seasons, all these 'thick' strings....lovely.

                                                                                        Love the speakers a lot. I am still listening to it.







                                                                                        B&W 803S / MF KW-550 /MF A1008 CDP
                                                                                        Transparent Power Link MM
                                                                                        CSE RK-100 Power Conditioner / Powersnake Taipan Helix Vx / Arcolink 4030 2m
                                                                                        AudioNote ANvX Mark II RCA / XLO Limited Edition Mk II RCA
                                                                                        TAOC PTS-F Spike Plates for 803S / SolidSteel Audio Tables: 6.2x2+1xTable-B / Lynn Skeet Spike Plates for Racks

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • cug
                                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                                          • Jan 2008
                                                                                          • 286

                                                                                          Nice setup now! Looks good with the 803S. Guess they are not too big for your room.

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • cntlaw
                                                                                            Member
                                                                                            • Mar 2008
                                                                                            • 80

                                                                                            Originally posted by cug
                                                                                            Nice setup now! Looks good with the 803S. Guess they are not too big for your room.
                                                                                            The 803S are now being placed 6.5 ft apart leaving ~2 ft from walls all around instead of initially under 6 ft, the improvement is very significant.
                                                                                            The listening distance is pretty close to the 804S, with same volume, it is more comfort to the ears if leaning backward 2 feet than the 804S I tested last time. During the burn-in period, sound quality varieis from music to music, it is not yet able to determine if 803S can produce sound as good as my friend's already burn-in 804S. There are noticeable more bass from the 803S but in terms of required sound stage filling up the room, it is the same as when I had the 804S. I could hear the depth is more behind the speakers with the 804S, not the 803S, may be this is just another new speakers issue.
                                                                                            Overall, after two days running them, it is very listenable.
                                                                                            My friend told me it takes 500 hours to burn-in the speakers. 8O




                                                                                            B&W 803S / MF KW-550 /MF A1008 CDP
                                                                                            Transparent Power Link MM
                                                                                            CSE RK-100 Power Conditioner / Powersnake Taipan Helix Vx / Arcolink 4030 2m
                                                                                            AudioNote ANvX Mark II RCA / XLO Limited Edition Mk II RCA
                                                                                            TAOC PTS-F Spike Plates for 803S / SolidSteel Audio Tables: 6.2x2+1xTable-B / Lynn Skeet Spike Plates for Racks

                                                                                            Comment

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