1055 sound better than 1098...is it possible?

[NHT]

Im in a dilemma. I have been toying with my new 1098 ALL day and for some odd reason, the sound with movies is not as good as the 1055 it replaced. All my settings are basically the same as the 1055 but I just cant get it to sound as good or better(which I think that it should surpass) than the 1055. What da heck is going on? I was expecting to be floored not frustrated. This is especially true with bass. My SVS thundered with the 1055 but now I cant get it to that level any longer. And to top that off, I was watching Blade II on volume 68 and on passages where there is silence followed by a loud bass note, the decoder cuts off and reinstates Dolby digital and it returns sub level back to default instead of staying at the level that I changed it to.

Someone please help me what da heck is goin on? Im ready to pull all my hair out. Im starting to have buyers remorse because I put my 1055 back in to do a comparison and it blew my mind with Blade once more. The thing is I got this unit as an open box so I dont know if I could return it. Do you think this unit is defective? Would not sounding good enough be just reason for return? Or are my settings wrong?? Thanks for all your help.

[Sithlord]

1098 settings

NHT you need to be more specific when asking questions about setup. No one on this forum can guess this so you need to elaborate more if you want us to help you. When watching dvds what are your setting on the 1098? Have you adjusted the crossover with all your speakers on the 1098 and gone into the sub settings and changed those? There are many questions left unanswered so please provide more information and we will try to help you. :T

[NHT]

sorry for the vagueness. For dvds I leave the sub at 80hz xover and in the advanced settings I leave it at master. Also, I have all the channels set at small. I dont believe that I have the settings wrong. Its just that the sound that came from my 1055 is almost the same if not a tad better. i was just really expecting the 1098 to surpass the 1055 by a noticable margin. I was so excited before hooking it up and now I am just flat depressed. :cry:

[jlee]

I just upgraded from an RSP-1066 to the RSP-1098. I have a friend with an 1055. The sound of the 1066 is significantly better than the 1055 and the 1098 is a huge step up on the 1066... so there must be something wrong with your settings... It took me a while to get everything properly setup, and INITIALLY, before everything was set properly, it didn't sound as good as my completely optimized 1066. Just keep optimizing and see what happens.

[Aussie Geoff]

NHT,

Some ideas for you:

Subwoofer levels - Most RSP-1098's set the subwoofer level 10 db too low when using the internal test tones (there's a long explanationd for this to do with sub reference levels being 10 db higher than speaker). Bottom line though - you can check for this using the test tones of a DVD setup disk which are accurate OR if you don't have this and suspect the problem - use the RSP-1098's test tones and set the speakers all to 75 dB and ON THE SAME VOLUME SETTING, with the sub level on the RSP-1098 set to 0 db adjust the volume on your actual sub until it it producing 85 dB on C / slow wieghted meter. I suspect this will fix your sub issue and fill in the ambience and depth of the sound.

Speaker Distances - The RSP-1098 is revealing an sensative to the right speaker distances. Measure these (inclidng the sub from a centre litenning position and set them accurrately.

[/B]Speaker settings[/B] - I am not sure what speakers you have but try setting the default for all of them to SMALL with a crossover of 80 Hz to the sub... You can then use the advanced settings to make them different for stereo etc. OR if you have very large mains - try a 40 or 60 Hz front left and right crossover with the rest at 80

Default Sound Mode - What sound mode are you using for (say) DVDs. You can change this using the SUR+ key and then the + and - key. I recommend DD + Dolby IIx Cinema and DTS + Dolby IIx Cinema.

Also can you confirm
1) You are using coax or fibre from the DBD player?
2) Do you have a CD player and how is it connected?
3) Have you changed amps at the same time?
4) Have you also tried stereo listenning?

Geoff

[NHT]

My system consists as follows:

Room 15x12 w/9ft ceilings
B&W CDM7NT(fronts)
B&W CDMCNT
B&W CDM1NT(rears)
Denon 2900
Rotel 1098
Rotel 1095
Infocus 5700
SVS 20-39 PC+

-Given that I do get the settings right, where would I hear the improvements in performance? Would it mainly be in stereo listening or dvd playback or both? When I hooked my 1055 back in and tested with Blade II, the sound was just more robust, dynamic, and enveloping, whereas the 1098 just sounded thin and bright. I was messing with the adjustments all day and I still cant get the desirable sound.

-Is the subwoofer output level a little lower than on the 1055/1066? I ask because on the 1098, to get the desired amount of bass, I have to turn the gain up to +3 while on the 1055 it was at -5. The main gain dial on the sub was kept at the same level. Keep in mind that I dont have an SPL and all adjustments are made by ear and preference.

-Do processors need a break-in time? Maybe this 1 day old 1098 just hasnt broken in yet versus my 1 1/2 year old 1055.

-On other complaint is that the addition of the 1098 also brought a ground loop hum into my system. I had no problems with the 1055. This was temporarily fixed by removing my cable TV line.

Aussie Geoff to answer your questions:

-I did turn up the gain more on the 1098 and it did fill in that gap. I initially didnt want to run it too hot and risk damaging the sub.

-I have B&W CDM 7NTs for the front. Should I set them at large or small and what is the recommened crossover level?

1) yes I am using a high quality coax from my denon 2900

2) no cd player yet but do plan on the 1072. Are the DAC's better on the 1072 vs 1098 for cd playback?

3) No I didnt change amps. Ive had the 1098 paired with the 1055 for some time

4) Yes, I did try stereo listening and it did sound a little better. More defined mids and highs. Are the DACS better in the 1098 or my Denon 2900? Do you think it will sound better if I hook up the 2900 with analog interconnects into the 1098 and doing stereo bypass?

If anyone with a similar set up and room size could give me some good settings, I would be grateful. Thanks for all your help.

[will1066]

NHT, what's up dude? You never emailed me back! LOL

I know we have similar systems, but your room is even the same size as mine! I run my 7NT fronts as "Large". My CNT is set to "Small", as are my 600 S3 rears (no room in the back for bigger speakers). Crossover to ASW600 is 80Hz. In the interest of stereo, I would try your (4) by hooking up a pair of RCA cables between the 2900 and 1098 and comparing DACs. A dedicated CD player should top both the 2900 and 1098's DACs, IMO.

I do believe in a slight amount of break-in. It won't be a day/night difference. I'm using a Jensen VRD-1FF to break a cable line hum. The Jensen is about the size of a roll of breath mints, and it goes between the cable line from outside and your cable box or line splitter.

You should get an SPL meter, preferably analog. It is an INDISPENSABLE accessory for any system. Run to your local Radio Shack and look for one ASAP. You should use your ears only for tweaking a couple of clicks up or down AFTER you have calibrated using an SPL meter. Don't rely on the 1098's internal test tone generator. Play a setup disc in the 2900, run the coax into the 1098, and then adjust levels in the 1098. This method is more accurate. You probably have a setup disc in your home already. Several movies have the THX Optimizer, which has test tones for system calibration. Star Wars Episodes I and II have the THX Optimizer. All editions of Terminator 2 do too.

[aud19]

I agree, the first thing you should do is buy an SPL meterand properly set your speaker levels including properly setting the sub levels.

I would not run all your speakers but your mains as small as not only are your mains not full range and unable to handle all the bass frequencies in the L/R channels but buy setting them as large and the rest of your speakers as small they'll be recieving all their re-directed bass as well.

I would set your mains at a 60hz crossover at the lowest, the rest at 80hz and all set to small. Set the mains seperately as large for music listeing if you prefer.

Good luck!

Jason

[NHT]

Ive been into home theater for about 2 years now and Ive always heard the constant endorsement of SPL's and how imperitive to get the proper sound from your system but Ive always thought that just adjusting to your taste has always been more important than trusting a device to tell you what sounds best. However, as skeptical as I was, Im going to take your advice and Im going to Radio Shack right now to see what all the hype is with this device. Skepticism has got the best of me but I will trust your advice on this. But when I get back I might need some additional help from you guys. Thanks.

BTW...Ive heard that the digital spl is not as accurate as the analog but Rat Shack only carries the digital. Is this okay?

[will1066]

Did you unknowingly activate the dynamic range compression feature?

[DarrenR]

NHT
A few quick responses to some of your questions:
1) I found that the RSP-1066 benefitted from some break-in time. I was fairly critical of the sound of this processor when I first purchased it, but it has improved in time....or my ears are now more accustomed to it compared to my previous processor.
2) Set the 7nt's to large for stereo listening...your amp should be powerful enough to drive these speakers. Like their big brothers in the Nautilius range, the NTs need lots of power (my RB986 mK11 just could not drive these speakers, but when I switched to a more powerful Classe amp, I discovered that the NT7's could produce solid bass). Set them to small for HT, where having a pure (non-digitised) signal is probably not such a big issue.
3) IMHO, the DACs on the Denon 2900 produce sounds that are flat, bordering on dull...like a 2D wall of sound. The DACs in the RSP 1066 were much better (good solid bass), whereas & the DACs of my dedicated CD player (Rotel 971) were an improvement over the RSP1066 (bigger sound stage, 3D imaging). However, my dedicated outboard DAC trumps them all in terms of soundstage width & depth etc (you know, all those buzzwords for sounding much better). Could I suggest that you plug in an external DAC into your 2900...you have already payed for a transport, why pay for another one in a dedicated CD player?

Darren

[Andrew Pratt]

I've yet to see a system that couldn't benefit from being properly calibrated. I've been calibrating my systems for a while now and think that i've got a pretty good ear for levels etc but every time the SPL meter shows that I've been off by a few DB here and there and it does make a big difference in getting a seamless soundstage. Geoff's right on the money with the subwoofer levels...boost it to 10 dB over the other speakers and it should fall into place with the rest of the speakers if you're using the internal test tones...a calibration DVD like Avia is highly recomended though as it'll also help calibrate your video display.

[NHT]

I have calibrated my system with an spl and although it sounded more blended, however it is not quite the jump from my 1055 that I was looking for. I will give it a few more days until I make a decision as my home theater store has changed their return policy to 7 days. Tomorrow I am going to go trade this one in for a different 1098 just to narrow down the problem. If it is still the same, I will regretfully have to return it and go a different route in terms of better sound. Perhaps a different amp than the 1095 to power my B&W CDM7nts. Any suggestions?

DarrenG....what outboard DAC do you recommend that is a bang for the buck? Do you think I should go this route instead of getting a 1072? Will the difference be night and day?

[Tony]

Hi!

If I understood that correctly, all boxes are to set on small. Then the mains to 60 hz and the rest on 80 hz set. But on which hz is the sub are adjusted? Should Master be choosen? I possess the 1075 with the 1068 and with Sonus Faber Concertino.

Greetings

Tony

[Aussie Geoff]

Tony,

Your settings sound fine - I recommend you pick MASTER for the sub for the different sound modes unless you want something different for Stereo (some people evel like to make their Main LEFT and RIGHT large for STEREO). By picking MASTER the crossover is controlled by a single setting for the speakers which is easier to change in one spot.

Geoff

[Tony]

I did not adjust it yet. I want to set it in the evening today. I always look after improvements :-) But on how much hz must the Subwoofer be placed.

Greetings

Tony

[Aussie Geoff]

Tony,

In the SUBWOOFER SETUP menu set it to 80 Hz (this will be the master high and low pass crossover for all SMALL speakers in all soundmodes unless you overide it. So when you specify any speaker as SMALL it will use this crossover.

I you want to override it for a specific speaker (say the front left and right) you go into the ADVANCE SPEAKER SETUP menu from the SPEAKER SETUP menu and select the speakers you want (E.g. FRONT) which you can then change either the crossover frequency OR from SMALL to LARGE or visa versa for specfic sound modes... In your case you would do this for the FRONT speakers and change them to 60Hz - the rest of your speakers you would leave untouched at 80 Hz.... This menu also allows you to change speakers from SMALL to LARGE for specific sound modes. For example some people have their fronts as LARGE for STEREO - thus avoiding any subwoofer usage... I would leave them all SMALL myself until you really are sure of what you are doing...

Geoff

[Andrew Pratt]

DarrenG....what outboard DAC do you recommend that is a bang for the buck? Do you think I should go this route instead of getting a 1072? Will the difference be night and day

I'd skip the 1072 and get the Benchmark DAC1 that's very well reviewed and owned by several HTGuide members. There's some lenghty threads in the Audio area if you want to read up on it.

[Tony]

Ok, understood, how I have to set the speakers! Are the attitudes only for the Subwoofer (if I set 60 hz to the mains and the rest to 80 hz) or are called that, which already uses the Mainbox starting from 60?

If the Main Fronts are set to 60 hz, is there more "bass" in the Main Fronts or less? Plays the Main Box "harder", if I set these to 60 hz or 100 hz? I want the hardest settings for the Mains but the setting "large" is too much for my room for Dolby Digital. In Stereo no prob.

Greetings

Tony

[Aussie Geoff]

Tony,

The crossover settings apply to bass that would normally be sent to that speaker. So 80 Hz means bass below 80 Hz is progressively sent to the subwoofer instead of the speaker. A setting of 60 Hz will send bass below 60 Hz.

The processor assumes that you are using the Subwoofers LFE setting or have the subwoofers own crossover off or set high (160 hz etc) so the processor can control the bass for you that is sent to the speakers and the subwoofer.

If you want the subwoofer to do more of the work - make the setting 80 Hz, if you want the speakers to do more - make it 60 or even 40 Hz...

I would not set it above 80 Hz as the ear can start to directionalise bass at 100 Hz...

Geoff

Geoff

[Tony]

If you want the subwoofer to do more of the work - make the setting 80 Hz, if you want the speakers to do more - make it 60 or even 40 Hz...

Its the last question, really :W With this you mean I have to set the Subwoofer to 60 or even 40 hz or the advanced Speakersettings: Front to 60 or even 40 hz?

The Sub is now 80 hz and the Main 60 hz and Center, Surrounds to 80 hz!

Greetings

Tony

[Tony]

I´m at home now. So I could test the new settings:

This are my boxes:

Sonus Faber:
Concertino Front: 50 – 20.000 Hz
Solo: Center: 40 -20.000 Hz.
Wall: Surrounds: 60 – 20.000 Hz

My room is very critical in sounding. If there is to much bass, the sound will roar. For example, every Box is set to large, the sound will be cruelly. So I made the following changes:

All to small:
Front to 60 hz
Center to 60 hz
Surrounds to 80 hz
Subwoofer to 80 hz

Before the changes, all settings were on small and 100 hz. The sound was good but it could be a little harder! With the setting above the sound is even better! Its a mix between large and small, now. The Explosions sound so hard and brilliant without roaring! Absolut Fantastic! Wow!!!

Thanks all lot Geoff :T :T

Greetings

Tony

[Aussie Geoff]

Tony,

Excellent - I'm glad you like it...

PS - if you haven't done it aleready - try measuring the distance to all you speakers and setting up the speaker delay menu carefully - it gives you an even better soundstage.

Geoff

[NHT]

I also wanted to add one more thing that I think is wrong with my 1098. I usually played the volume on my 1055 at about 64-66. However, on the 1098, I have to crank it to about 75-76 to get the desirable volume. Is this right? Does the 1098 play a bit lower than the 1055? Maybe this factor would be the ultimate factor in deciding if I got a faulty unit.

[Aussie Geoff]

NHT,

From memory the RSX-1056 and RSP-1066 has a different maximum volume (80 If I recall?) than the RSX-1067/RSP-1069/RSP-1098 which goes to 99.

Regardless - on my friends RSP-1066 (same software as the RSX-1056) reference is about 10 lower than on my 1098 with the same speakers and amplifier. So the 10 or so difference you are hearing in maximum volume and reference levels between the RSX-1056 and RSP-1098 sounds consistent with this to me and isn't likely to be any indicator of a faulty unit...

Geoff

[Tony]

Hi Geoff,

the new sound setting works fine :banana:

My Delay settings are:

Left: 2,7 m (in real 3 m)
Center: 2,7 m (in real 3 m)
Right: 2,7 m (in real 3 m)
LS: 2,4 m (in real 1,7 m)
RS: 2,4 m (in real 1,7 m)
Sub: 2,4 m (in real 2,6 m)

Are the settings so ok? Are the surrounds set wrong? The guidance (I hope this word is correct?) descripse, that the front should have a shorter setting as in real and the surrounds should have larger setting than in real. Is that true or shall I change the delay times :scratchhead:

Greetings

Tony

[Aussie Geoff]

Tony,

If by your post you mean that the actual (real) measured distance from your center listening position to the speakers is:
>> Left: 3 m
>> Center: 3 m
>> Right: 3 m
>> Left Surround: 1.7 m
>> Right Surround 1.7 m
>> Sub: 2.6 m
Then you should change your SPEAKER delay settings to that. You will get a more coherent sound field and things like sound effects and dialogue will better match the action on the screen. Given your existing settings I expect this to most effect the balance between the surrounds the the front, where you should get better distinction between the two (your current settings will tend to bunch up the front and rear sound fields a little.).

Try it and see

Geoff

[Tony]

You are right. I think I have the guidance misunderstood. Settings changed. But the Sub makes a problem. The real measure are 2,50 m. Shall I take the 2,40 m or the 2,70 m in the delay menu?

Greetings

Tony

[Aussie Geoff]

Tony,

If the sub is 2,6m away- then make it 2,7m.
If it is 2,5m away - then make it 2,4m assuming the sub is front firing. If it is firing from the rear or side - leave it on 2,7m as the sound has to travel a little extra distance

Geoff

[Tony]

Thanks for your tipps! It sounds really better now. I have posted my homecinema above in the thread: Please Post Pictures of your Rotel. Take a look :W

Anything else I can tune?

Greetings

Tony

[shadow]

NHT,

From memory the RSX-1056 and RSP-1066 has a different maximum volume (80 If I recall?) than the RSX-1067/RSP-1069/RSP-1098 which goes to 99.

Regardless - on my friends RSP-1066 (same software as the RSX-1056) reference is about 10 lower than on my 1098 with the same speakers and amplifier. So the 10 or so difference you are hearing in maximum volume and reference levels between the RSX-1056 and RSP-1098 sounds consistent with this to me and isn't likely to be any indicator of a faulty unit...

Geoff

I don't think you are right on this. When I calibrated my 1056, the volume was at 82 for reference. Don't know how much higher it will go since that was way too loud for me.

[Aussie Geoff]

I meant 1055 not 1056 (blush)

Shadow (and others),

Sorry I meant the RSX-1055 (which is what NHT has) this has compatible firmware to the 1066 which my friend has... The 1056 has the new processor and DACS and firmware and goes to a maximum of 99 on the volume and peoples refernce tends ot be in the 73-80 range,,,

Geoff