Questions for RSP 1066 - 2CH Stereo and Cables

[Lonewolf]

Hi all

After doing a search and reading alot of threads on this forum, i fear i may have either learnt alot or confused myself more than ever.

I have got a RSP 1066 (you figured that) and had some queries on how to get optimum sound out of it for 2 channel stereo from my Onkyo 540C Cd Player (not a very high end cd player, bought in for around 600$ Australian a few years ago, its a 5+1 Carousel CD player). At the moment i have it connected to my 1066 via optical fibre and have my 1066 set to stereo. Now after reading some articles i fear all this time i havent been doing it right. First of all the question i have is having it set to stereo automatically means it is a bypass / direct signal? Or do i have to choose that somewhere else? (i chose the stereo option in the menu). Also if i have my sub settings on does it affect any of the signal / sound going to my fronts? Do i have to have my sub settings OFF (in the menu) for it to be a pure bypass signal? I have my fronts set to Large and my sub set to MAX and then i used to either turn off or turn on the sub settings for stereo through the sub settings menu page where you can choose the +/- DB and if you take it down to -10 it says OFF (is this the same as setting it off in the other menu or is this different? Will either of these settings affect my signal / stop my signal from being a direct / bypass signal?).

Apparently even with the 2ch stereo / bypass setting volume (gain) and tone controls are still added on, is there a way of making sure the tone controls dont get added on and hence make the signal even more pure? Basically i am trying to set my system up to have the most pure and crisp clean signal it possibly can for 2Ch stereo from my CD to my Speakers.

Also i am know starting to realise maybe i havent been getting the direct / bypass stereo at all because i have been using optical out rather than the analog RCA outputs on my CD player. Is that assumption right? should i have been using my analog stereo RCA outputs all along? On Cables, my store has a couple of types of cables, it has basically 3 types: cheap/bulk, avg and good (for the store, not real high end). Its a wholesaler basically and hence actually put together their own cables plus sell a larger variety of cables inits raw parts as in plugs and wires etc etc. Question i had was can Coaxial Digital cables and Component Video cables be used for Audio or would they detract from the sound quality? The reason why i ask is they actually tell you the parts they used to put together their cables since they sell the parts separately as well. And the parts used for the coaxial digital and component video are a higher grade generally speaking than the parts they used for their best audio specific cables. They tend to believe you can use the component video cables and it will perform better than their audio cables but they might be saying that because the component video cables and coaxial digital cables are more pricey than their audio cables too quite abit more pricey.

I have read somewhere that apparently i shouldnt use them cos most likely the component video and coaxial digital actually have fewer strands at the core of the cables and are just thicker and cost more due to better shielding and protection which audio cables dont need. Now i looked at the parts used and yes i think the audio cables parts actually have more strands of wires at the core than do the component video and coaxial digital cables, does this make any difference? All i know is the component video and coaxial digital cables use higher quality plus and are considerably heavier, more solid and thicker plus seem to use more expensive parts for their wires / cables as well as for their plugs. And according to the store they seem to believe its better to use the component video cables for audio as well but they didnt seem positive about that fact themselves, they presumed it would be better.

This is sucha long post, i better end it here. Please help. Advice would be much appreciated and if you need any more info from me before you can help me out dont hesitate to ask.

[Andrew Pratt]

There's a couple of questions in there that i'll try to help you with but if I forget any I'm sure someone will jump in to fill in the gaps

First I wouldn't set your sub to MAX as that typically results in too much bass being sent to the various speakers. You'd be better off setting it back to normal and then set your mains to either small or large...and unless you have very special mains small is likely your best choice for all your speakers.

As for the digital vs analog connection between the CD player and 1066 that's a personal choice that will come down to which DAC you prefer. When you connect the CD player digitally you're letting the Rotel do the digital to analog conversion where with analog cables that conversion is occuring in the CD player. I can't tell you which is better though having never heard the Oink player...its simple to test though as you can connect some analog cables to a different input (video 3 etc) and then toggle back and forth between the CD and Video 3 inputs to see which sounds better. If the digital connection sounds best set it to stereo and enjoy. If the analog sounds better you might consider connecting the CD player to the Multi Channel inputs to get a true analog by pass (assuming you've done the BM fix as outlined in the FAQ)

Regarding cables yes higher qaulity cables can and do make a difference...esp video cables and interconnects...less so with digital cables though the CatCables silver digital is making waves around here with its many fans :W If you're looking to upgrade components I'd start with a better source component (ie CD player) and or speakers (what do you have now?)and do the Bass Management fix if you haven't done so yet. Upgraded cables are more like tweaks to help tinker with the over all tonal sound so you won't radically change the sound with new cables.

[ajpoe]

If the analog sounds better you might consider connecting the CD player to the Multi Channel inputs to get a true analog by pass (assuming you've done the BM fix as outlined in the FAQ).

Andrew, along these same lines. My Benchmark DAC1 will be arriving on Wednesday. I am still using my Onkyo receiver (I felt getting the DAC first was more important to me than the 1068 since I listen to music a lot more, but anyway). The TX-SR800 has Pure Audio, Direct, and Stereo modes. The Pure Audio mode shuts down all circuitry and the front display and only sends output to the front 2 channels (no sub), direct does the same except the front display is on and then stereo is normal stereo processing and outputs to LFE as well. Should I just run the analog inputs from the DAC into the CD inputs on my receiver and use the Pure Audio mode or would you still recommend running them into the front left/right inputs of the multichannel input.

ajpoe

[Andrew Pratt]

If Pure Audio does what it claims I'd use that mode on the CD inputs...let us know what you think of the new DAC! (I'm very jealous)

[aud19]

Hey Andrew, get to the back of the jealousy line, I was here first : :lol:

Jason

[Lonewolf]

Hiya Andrew,

Thanks for your help and your reply. I will try to give you a abit more info on my setup. My speakers are for the most part pretty good except for perhaps my rear center which is a jensen speaker. All my other speakers are actually Australian speakers since for the price down here you cant generally beat them for the quality of the sound. My fronts are pretty heavy duty floor standing speakers, they are Equinox Perigees. Weigh in about 55kgs and have 5 drivers, 4 6" drivers and a tweeter in the middle in a D'Apolito configuration. These speakers seem to generally go up / be compared against imported speakers in the price bracket ranging from around 7000-10000$ AUD. They are meant to handle and put out a decent amount of bass so thats why i thought i will keep them as Large speakers.

My surrounds are Accusounds Phase Zeros and are generally compared against speakers around the price range of 4000-5000$ AUD. They look alot like the Mission 701s ( i think those are the ones i am thinking of) but these are larger. They are also floor standing speakers which weigh in at 25kgs and have 5 drivers. 4x 4" bass-mids and 1 tweeter. My center is a Subsonic PC-1, it also has 5 drivers, 2x 6" bass-mids and 3 tweeters and weighs in at around 20kgs. Hence why i figured there was no harm in having them all as Large, now my rear center maybe i shouldnt have as large but the manual said i should. It is a Jensen AVX 1001 (think thats the model no.) it was only around 500$ or so and is 2x 4" bass-mids and a tweeter. Weighs around 9kgs or so i think.

So whats the problem with having the sub set to Max? Does that mean all bass below a certain freq is sent to the sub plus the bass being sent to the equivalent speaker? It doesnt seem to bassy in my room for anything except maybe dvd movies with the volume turned up real loud. But like i said for music i have the sub either off or really really turned down otherwise there is too much bass and drowns out the music. Although that could be cos at the moment i have 3 subs running hence maybe it might be a bit of an overkill for my bedroom.

Oh so using the multi channel inputs actually provide more of a direct / bypass type feature than connecting it to the CD input at the back of the preamp? So Multi channels is basically closer to True Bypass than the normal inputs on the preamp for sources? Yes the BM fix had already been applied to my model or so i was told by the dealer anyway. I think most Australian models already had it done besides i only got mine less than a year or so ago,
it already came with v2.25 firmware on it. Would you generally say that the Rotel DAC would be better than a Onkyo CD Player's DAC? Especially considering that the CD player is a few years old and also was only bought for around 600$ at that time even if i did buy it on sale for that price.

The reason why i did ask about those cables was cos at the moment i am using those cheaper / lower grade looking audio cables for not only all my audio sources but also as interconnects from my preamp to my poweramps. Hence i was thinkign if those component video cables and / or digital coaxial cables are better and CAN be used for Audio with no problems and will work just the same if not better then i should use them since they do have better shielding. But i was worried about what i had read about audio cables being designed for audio and hence have more strands of wire free at the core and the component video cables and digital coaxial cables all designed for their own purposes and hence dont have as many strands of wire but have better shielding. Thing is the component video and digital coax cables are of a higher grade hence if they should act the same for audio and are not really designed differently besides with better shielding and higher ohmage and if those differences shouldnt affect audio in anyway then i figure those cables should be better and hence should be used.

BTW How does a digital coax cable differ from component video cables? They are both 75ohms right and are both designed with extra shielding?

[Andrew Pratt]

Hmm lots to go though here

First I think we need to define what a large speaker is with respect to BM issues. It does not imply a heavy or physically large speaker but refers to how low it can play at a reasonable volume. With music unless you're into pipe organs most music tails off below 40 hz or so meaning many larger tower speakers can be run full range without a sub for most music. Movies are another matter though as most extend down below 30 hz and some dip into single digit regions which exceptionally few speakers can deal with which means that for home theater you're almost always better off setting the speakers to small and letting the subwoofer deal with the LFE. In your case I'd set all the speakers to small and set the subwoofer to ON not Max. Setting it to MAX means you're doubleing the bass as a signal is sent to the mains as well as the subwoofer.

Digital Coax is the same as Video cable as both are 75 ohm. You could use these for audio but its not recomended as audio cables should be 110 ohm I believe.

I can't say for sure if the Oynk has better or worse DAC's then the Rotel but as I suggested earlier its a quick and easy test to find out for sure...that said I'd guess the newer DAC's in the Rotel would be better.

[rotel&energy]

Andrew,

"Oh so using the multi channel inputs actually provide more of a direct / bypass type feature than connecting it to the CD input at the back of the preamp? So Multi channels is basically closer to True Bypass than the normal inputs on the preamp for sources?" - I'm confused by this too. Are you suggesting hooking up my CD player (1070) to the multi-channel inputs on my 1055, instead of the CD input?

Also, for listening to straight 2-channel (no subwoofer hooked up), do you suggest having the speakers set to small?

Thanks,

chris

[rotel&energy]

Oops

Uhh, cut that second question Andrew. Shame on me for not looking at the post about DefTechs and 1066. Sorry.

[Lonewolf]

Hiya Andrew,

Thanks for all the help thus far. I have been doing a bit of testing over the weekend with my setup. Here is alink to my speaker, according to it it goes to about 30hz but i suppose thats not really good enough so i might stick with having all my speakers set to small. You can check out the link below :-

http://www.equinoxaudio.com.au/products/speakers/perigee.php

About which DAC to use, i think i will stick with using my Rotel's DAC rather than the Onkyo CD player's one, i think the Rotel one being newer and a better build will probably be better overall, and from the music i did listen to it did seem to sound a bit better but cant be sure.

About my speaker and sub config, i have them all set to small now and my sub set to YES / ON rather than MAX. And my crossover on the rotel set to 80hz (previously the crossovers on the subs were set to 100hz). So i figured i should be getting alot less bass now than i was previously since my speakers are all small rather than large (which they were all set to before) plus for the crossover differences. BUT YET My bass response was dramatically boosted which surprised me. I am getting ALOT and i mean ALOT more bass than i was previously. At first i figured maybe my subs crossovers werent working properly and they were chucking out alot of bass while perhaps my rotel's crossover freq was doing what i should have been getting all along.

Now i should explain when i set the rotel crossovers to 80hz in order to keep my subs crossovers out of the equation (since they dont have the ability to completely switch off their crossovers) i set them all to the max crossover freq considering that since the Rotel will be sending only 80hz and below to my subs then anything above wont get sent hence there should be no audible difference. But when i did a test on my sub my theory seemed to be proven wrong. My sub's crossover was set to 150hz (to keep it out of the way of the rotel's 80hz crossover freq setting) and so i tried moving the subs freq from 150 down to 100 and then back to 150 and through that entire process of moving the dial back and forth i could hear and feel the difference in bass dramatically, which seemed to imply the sub was still getting bass signals upto 150hz or somewhere around that mark which shouldnt be happening at all since the rotel's freq was set to 80hz. It doesnt make any sense to me? what am i doing wrong or is there something wrong with my rotel? It has the latest firmware. And i was testing this out on my cable tv (which i believe i was using a optical fibre input).

[Drew_W]

So the Analog inputs of the 1066 are *NOT* Analog-Direct? Only the 6ch input is?

[ajpoe]

Benchmark DAC1

Well, I have had the Benchmark DAC1 hooked up for about a week now. It is on the optical out on my HTPC soundcard and I run my receiver in Pure Audio mode. The sound is excellent. I have it set up on one input and a 2nd input bypassing it. When I listen to the DAC1 for a while and switch to the 2nd input I can really hear a difference in the clarity and overall soundstage. The vocals seem to be much more a part of the music and the bass is very tight with extremely clean highs. I am a big fan of acoustic versions of songs... unplugged CDs, etc. and I absolutely love how I can feel each string of the guitar vibrating my clothing. I am glad that I decided to go with the DAC1!

ajpoe

[aud19]

Ajpoe, maybe write your thoughts in the DAC1 thread as well. http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=8084 You didn't by any chance get one for me too did you? It was my b-day yesterday... :rofl:

Seriously though, congrats :T

Jason

[will1066]

So the Analog inputs of the 1066 are *NOT* Analog-Direct? Only the 6ch input is?

No. The normal two-channel input can be made analog bypass/direct. The key is to use Stereo mode for the input and turn the sub level for Stereo in the Sub Level menu to OFF.

[ajpoe]

Jason, no sorry, but happy belated birthday! Did you try to get some catcables for you're birthday, too? I have seen your failed past attempts at those as well, may be Doug will give in eventually :B

I put a similar post in your suggest thread and added some extra details. Thanks for the proper direction.

ajpoe

[aud19]

:laughat: :laughat: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Jason

[Lonewolf]

So the Analog inputs of the 1066 are *NOT* Analog-Direct? Only the 6ch input is?

No. The normal two-channel input can be made analog bypass/direct. The key is to use Stereo mode for the input and turn the sub level for Stereo in the Sub Level menu to OFF.

So what if my mains are set to small and my sub to ON/YES and then i go and set sub level menu to OFF for Stereo. Does the sound get directed to my mains or is the sound just lost?