Rotel RSP 1572

[Sackrat]

What player are you using? The SACD/HDMI output resolution is critical.

Hi Kal, I am feeding the Rotel with HDMI from a current model, Samsung BD-D 6700. It does not have "multi outputs". The Samsung gives me four audio output choices in the setup menu, 1. PCM, 2. Bitstream (unprocessed), 3. Bitstream (Re-encoded DTS), and 4. Bitstream (Re-encoded Dolby D). I am using choice number 2 recommended by Samsung if you have a receiver/prepro with Dolby True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding ability as does the Rotel.

Do you have any recommendation to address the SACD issue? I am on a learning curve here as my prior DVD player did have "multi outputs" for SACD.

[hery19]

What do you think? :W

I think you should give us some details! As to when and where we will see your review :T

[Kal Rubinson]

Hi Kal, I am feeding the Rotel with HDMI from a current model, Samsung BD-D 6700. It does not have "multi outputs". The Samsung gives me four audio output choices in the setup menu, 1. PCM, 2. Bitstream (unprocessed), 3. Bitstream (Re-encoded DTS), and 4. Bitstream (Re-encoded Dolby D). I am using choice number 2 recommended by Samsung if you have a receiver/prepro with Dolby True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding ability as does the Rotel.

Do you have any recommendation to address the SACD issue? I am on a learning curve here as my prior pre/pro did have "multi outputs" for SACD.

Apparently, the Samsung will not "handshake" with the Rotel and switch from DSD to PCM as it should with a processor that will not decode DSD. Try switching to "1. PCM" because the Rotel will not handle DSD.

This is unfortunate because all the SACD/HDMI players I have used will automatically sense what they are connected to and output DSD or PCM as needed.

[Sackrat]

Apparently, the Samsung will not "handshake" with the Rotel and switch from DSD to PCM as it should with a processor that will not decode DSD. Try switching to "1. PCM" because the Rotel will not handle DSD.

This is unfortunate because all the SACD/HDMI players I have used will automatically sense what they are connected to and output DSD or PCM as needed.

Thanks Kal, I will switch to PCM thru HDMI in my Samsung player and see what happens. The Samsung player does say that SACD (DSD direct stream digital) is a disc it cannot play except the CD layer. I will try just the same and get back to you.

[Kal Rubinson]

Thanks Kal, I will switch to PCM thru HDMI in my Samsung player and see what happens. The Samsung player does say that SACD (DSD direct stream digital) is a disc it cannot play except the CD layer. I will try just the same and get back to you.

Wait. Are you saying that the Samsung does not play SACDs???? If so, you are playing the CD layer which is stereo. You cannot expect more than 2 channels.

[Sackrat]

Wait. Are you saying that the Samsung does not play SACDs???? If so, you are playing the CD layer which is stereo. You cannot expect more than 2 channels.

Kal, yes, your statement is correct. Stereo only. To me SACD is not a biggie. The Rotel will play SACD if signals are fed into the "multi inputs". However my Samsung disc player does not have the "multi outputs" for 5.1 multi channel sound fields. As mentioned on earlier post the Rotel does play DVD-A audio discs thru HDMI no problem.

[TommyV]

Apparently, the Samsung will not "handshake" with the Rotel and switch from DSD to PCM as it should with a processor that will not decode DSD. Try switching to "1. PCM" because the Rotel will not handle DSD.

This is unfortunate because all the SACD/HDMI players I have used will automatically sense what they are connected to and output DSD or PCM as needed.

The new Rotel pre/pro still will not accept DSD? They seem to have something against Sony SACD. They have never made a player that will even play them to my knowledge. Only DVD-A. I have read something written by a person who worked at Classe about the negative effects of converting SACD to MPCM via HDMI. He seemed to suggest it was not optimal.

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal, yes, your statement is correct. Stereo only. To me SACD is not a biggie.

Let's be specific and not misuse the terms. The player plays CDs or DVDs or.... It will play multichannel or stereo but not SACD regardless of the number of channels.

The Rotel will play SACD if signals are fed into the "multi inputs".

Again, the Rotel will accept analog input and has no way of knowing/distinguishing the source of those analog signals. Has nothing to do with SACD.

However my Samsung disc player does not have the "multi outputs" for 5.1 multi channel sound fields. As mentioned on earlier post the Rotel does play DVD-A audio discs thru HDMI no problem.

And it will play SACD (as PCM) through HDMI without problems. I did it yesterday.

[Kal Rubinson]

The new Rotel pre/pro still will not accept DSD? They seem to have something against Sony SACD.

There are many pre/pros that will not play DSD (Anthem, Marantz, Classe, Meridian, etc...). However, they (and the Rotel) will play SACD as most players will convert the DSD to PCM automatically.

I have read something written by a person who worked at Classe about the negative effects of converting SACD to MPCM via HDMI. He seemed to suggest it was not optimal.

Old news. OTOneH, you can be a stick about it and insist on pure DSD to analog but that forces you to abjure bass/channel management and room EQ. Is that a good thing? OTOtherH, you can convert to PCM (which most pre/pros do anyway) and have the system perform properly.

[TommyV]

There are many pre/pros that will not play DSD (Anthem, Marantz, Classe, Meridian, etc...). However, they (and the Rotel) will play SACD as most players will convert the DSD to PCM automatically.

Old news. OTOneH, you can be a stick about it and insist on pure DSD to analog but that forces you to abjure bass/channel management and room EQ. Is that a good thing? OTOtherH, you can convert to PCM (which most pre/pros do anyway) and have the system perform properly.

I am well aware of converting SACD to MPCM. That is what I currently do with my RSP-1069/Oppo combo. I was simply stating my surprise that the latest Rotel has still yet to implement it. I am not in need of a lesson of the basic functions in setting up SACD players and BM/EQ in the player vs the pre/pro.

In the consideration of shelling out money for a new pre/pro, I have to weigh whether or not there is enough of an upgrade in features, software implementation, hardware and possible increased sound quality from a combination of those factors. DSD streaming is not a deal breaker for me but I feel it is worth pointing out that it is one feature I would not be able to take advatage of, if I were to decide to upgrade to the 1572.

I went through the same process with the 1570 and decided it was definitely not worth upgrading for me. Especially with the latest software version on the 1069 that I worked with Mike Sheehan to get v1.23 to fruition. It solved the BM issues I found with MPCM signals. From what I hear, the 1570 never really got to what I would consider a solid platform. I am not sure if this was a hardware limitation that could not be fixed with an update or if they just never attempted to fix the issues owners were having. I am watching closely and hoping that this one comes out solid like my Rotel RSX-1057 was. I never had to update the software, it just worked from day one and sounded amazing.

[Kal Rubinson]

I am well aware of converting SACD to MPCM. That is what I currently do with my RSP-1069/Oppo combo. I was simply stating my surprise that the latest Rotel has still yet to implement it. I am not in need of a lesson of the basic functions in setting up SACD players and BM/EQ in the player vs the pre/pro.

I apologize if you think that I was talking down to you. My responses were based on the specific words you chose which, to me, were imprecise.

[TommyV]

I apologize if you think that I was talking down to you. My responses were based on the specific words you chose which, to me, were imprecise.

The only "precise" thing I was referring to was the lack of DSD stream decoding in the new 1572. The rest of my post was speculation of Rotel's stance on SACD vs DVD-A and a foggy recollection of an article I read in reference to SACD via HDMI as PCM and the author's opinion on it. I have never heard/compared the difference between the two.

There is a similar tendency of people who say bitstream DolbyTHD etc. sound superior when bitstreamed from the player to the decoder in the surround processor vs decoding in the player and sending it as Multi channel LPCM. Again, my RSP-1069 is HDMI v1.1 so I have never compared the two methods personally.

A new hiccup has come up recently that has me a bit trigger happy to upgrade though it seems ludicrous to do so for something so small. I watch a lot of HD video streaming via Netflix/Amazon on my Roku XDS. The new Roku2 device only has a HDMI output and will only provide 5.1 audio for Netflix titles in DD+ pass-through. There is no DD core, as should be according to the DD+ spec, so people without HDMI v1.3 or higher audio equipment are confined to 2 ch audio using the new Roku2 for Netflix video streaming.

[madmac]

I have the RSX-1057 and my playstation is hooked up to it via Optical and the Rotel decodes Dolby Digital from Netflix no problem. There is also the possibility that I have no clue as to what you are talking about above however !! :lol:

[TommyV]

Well you are right I could purchase a PS3 only for Netflix streaming but that is not my ideal situation as I would have no other use for it. I would prefer a Roku that will handle all my streaming and will have access to all capabilities using my current pre/pro. I also use Amazon streaming often and the PS3 does not offer that.

[Flateng]

New software

has been released.. v1.17

[Sackrat]

Admittedly, I am not the most competent PC user. I got two of the three current Rotel updates to work, front USB and MAIN. There are six software packages that permit updating when needed, three presently. However, what a pain to go through with all the BS to load. Plus Rotel provides you with an updateing cable with ethernet on one end that plugs into rear panel and an old style VGA on the other. No recent laptop has VGA any more so you buy an adaptor to go into USB. Where is the USB to USB or ethernet to ethernet connectivity?? I will get better doing updates now that I have done one, I hope. Maybe I am missing something but Rotel really live in a timewarp on updates. Maybe future products will be more user friendly. The good news is it is a fine prepro. I will go back and try the final Rotel update to VIDEO next week. Also, the owners manual is a POS. Just my little rant but othethan the manual and updating I love the RSP-1572.

[srb]

Plus Rotel provides you with an updateing cable with ethernet on one end that plugs into rear panel and an old style VGA on the other. No recent laptop has VGA any more so you buy an adaptor to go into USB. Where is the USB to USB or ethernet to ethernet connectivity??

I agree with you on the lack of more modern connectivity for updating, requiring the user to jump through hoops, but just to clarify it is not an "old style VGA" (15-pin DB15 D-sub Video connector) but a 9-pin DB9 D-sub Serial Port connector.

For those that have desktop computers, although serial ports are no longer integrated on the backplane connector group, many motherboards do have a motherboard serial port header to which an inexpensive serial port L-bracket can be connected (providing that there is an open slot available).

Star Tech Serial Port L-Bracket

Steve

[Sackrat]

For those that have desktop computers, although serial ports are no longer integrated on the backplane connector group, many motherboards do have a motherboard serial port header to which an inexpensive serial port L-bracket can be connected (providing that there is an open slot available).

Steve[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the correction, not VGA but serial port. You are correct. However, do any laptop's have a port for this? Mine does not hence I had to buy the adaptor to USB. Thanks for the info.

[srb]

However, do any laptop's have a port for this? Mine does not hence I had to buy the adaptor to USB. Thanks for the info.

Few (if any) current laptops have a serial port. I have an OLD Dell Inspiron 7000 that has a serial port, but who in their right mind would still own a 2" thick 11 pound Pentium II brick (with 128MB memory and 20GB hard drive)?

I believe it was just over $2500. I just haven't been able to bring myself to toss it in the trash heap!

Steve

[Sackrat]

Last night I completed installing the third firmware update to my Rotel RSP-1572. I was unable to install the VIDEO package last week but last night it loaded quickly. So as today I have the three available updates done. Have not noticed any significant changes as the updates correct small bugs. At least I know how to do it now.

[ldgibson76]

RSP-1570 vs. 1572 and DSD decoding, how important is it?

Hello Club Rotel posters. This is my very first post to this thread.

I am also considering either a RSP-1570 or 1572. The reason the 1570 is in the running is because of the current price point (approx. 1K). After reading the specs between the 1570 and 1572, it's really hard to justify the extra $1000. I currently own a RSP-1069 and I have been very happy with it. I also own a Denon DVD-3930CI which I use primarily for SACD/DVD-A and Redbook CD playback. I have the player connected in 4 ways, HDMI, L&R, 5.1 Multi-channel out and Digital Coaxial. This weekend, the DSD situation came into play. The Mariah Carey #1's SACD is a 2-channel SACD with DSD. I can play it thru the multi-channel outs (L&R) or via HDMI. If I play it via the Multi-channel L&R, I get hi-rez playback, right? If I send the signal via HDMI, then its converted to 44.1 kHz, and no DSD, is that correct?







Being that neither the Denon or the Rotel RSP-1069 recognizes DSD, am I correct in assuming that DSD decoding is a mute point regardless of sending the signal via HDMI because neither device has the capability to send the signal DSD?

For blu-ray playback, I have the Sony BDP-S5000ES and I use HDMI allowing the player to decode the Hi-rez audio signal and send it LPCM. I must say, it works well and sounds very good with the Rotel. I've read all over the web that many believe that Sony's DAC's in the multi-channel stage is superior compared to sending the signal via HDMI (LPCM). How true that is, I don't know?


Back to the 1570 vs. 1572..... The only benefit I see in replacing the 1069 with the 15-Series pre-pro's is because of the internal hi-rez decoding capabilities. I've never experienced HDMI handshake issues with the 1069 so to me, that's not an issue.

Other than the 2 additional HDMI inputs with v1.4, 3D, 2 HDMI outs (1 having ARC capability) and USB connectivity and the newer look, the justification for the upgrade seems solely on vanity than substance.
:huh: Not that that's a bad thing. I'm as vain as they come when it comes to HT! ops: Having the latest is very appealing.

[Blindamood]

I can play it thru the multi-channel outs (L&R) or via HDMI. If I play it via the Multi-channel L&R, I get hi-rez playback, right? If I send the signal via HDMI, then its converted to 44.1 kHz, and no DSD, is that correct?

I'm not sure, but I think you're asking if you can get multi-channel SACD to play over HDMI? If so, then yes, you can. You just have the player to decode the DSD to PCM, and then the PCM (for example, 88.2 kHz) is sent to the Rotel.

On a side note, I'm not really sure what you gain by using 4 different connection types? Using both HDMI and Coaxial Digital is absolutely redundant, and I'm guessing that you'd also do better (at least with the RSP-1570/72) by choosing HDMI over analog as well.

On another side note, I would highly recommend the RSP-1570, especially at the price point you mention. I've seen a few of these listed recently around there, so you should be able to find one without too much hassle. I've had mine for just over a year now, and I love it!

[ldgibson76]

I'm not sure, but I think you're asking if you can get multi-channel SACD to play over HDMI? If so, then yes, you can. You just have the player to decode the DSD to PCM, and then the PCM (for example, 88.2 kHz) is sent to the Rotel.

On a side note, I'm not really sure what you gain by using 4 different connection types? Using both HDMI and Coaxial Digital is absolutely redundant, and I'm guessing that you'd also do better (at least with the RSP-1570/72) by choosing HDMI over analog as well.

On another side note, I would highly recommend the RSP-1570, especially at the price point you mention. I've seen a few of these listed recently around there, so you should be able to find one without too much hassle. I've had mine for just over a year now, and I love it!

Hello Blindmood.

Thank you for your reply. You are correct when it comes to sending SACD via HDMI. I just wasn't sure if I was getting the full hi-rez signal or a down-converted signal.

The multiple connections was mainly for comparison in audio quality. I often compare the performance of the Rotel's DAC's to the Denon's to see if I can detect/hear a difference. Redundancy is evident with the digital coaxial and HDMI connection, but again, I do it for comparison sake.

I hear what you're saying about the 1570. But other than the ability to decode DTHD and DTS-HD/MA, sonically there really isn't much difference between the 1570 and 1069. Even the video processing is virtually the same. But the 1572 uses the newer Cirrus Crystal DAC's and a more advanced Faroudja Torino video processor. That, with the 3D capability and 6 HDMI ins dual HDMI outs is definitely more appealing. But again $2200 is a lot of coin for 2 more HDMI inputs. I'm still not sold on the Rotel sounding better than the Denon and the Denon's video upscaling of standard DVD's is reference level. So that negates the video processing excuse. It really comes down to vanity and the satisfaction of having the latest and greatest from Rotel.

Blindamood, don't get me wrong, I appreciate your input and I'm not discounting your opinion or perspective at all. The reasons you provided for upgrading are all valid. I just believe that the differences/improvements have to be vast! I mean mind-blowing improvements over what I have already. Aesthetically, I like the newer design of the 15 Series. In my opinion the 1570 only offers the new look, not much in the way of functionality. The 1572 offers much more in functionality but does it warrant a $2200.00 outlay? Right now, the 1572 is a hard sell.

[Chucka]

Any suggestions as to which external software Room EQ Analysis program would work best with this unit?

Chucka

[Kal Rubinson]

Any suggestions as to which external software Room EQ Analysis program would work best with this unit?

Chucka

I used XTZ but REW would be easily as good if a bit more complex.

[Mikael]

I was out yesterday and listen to the new RSP1572 with the RB1582 power amp on a pair of Dynaudio speakers Focus 160 and 260. And it blew me away, it sounds awesome in plain stereo, with a beautifull coherent soundstage and no sign of a thin and brigth treble and uppermidrange. it has a very powerfull bass not thin and not booming, just right. You could listen to this combo at high volumes and not having listening fattigue.

[JDH]

I notice in the current issue of Stereophile magazine the Rotel RSP-1572 is reviewed.

JDH

[wkhanna]

Yes, I read Kal's article last week.
He found little to fault.
It takes some work to dial in the bass management to a fine, precise level.
But once accomplished, his ear and measurements confirmed its capability.

[Sackrat]

Kal has said, when asked about video features like upscaling etc, that he is not a videophile. His interest and passion is audio hense his review for an audiophile mag, Stereophile. Perhaps Home Theater Mag, the sister to Stereophile, will do a review that will include much in the video side. Makes perfect sense for Kal to review the Rotel as he did.

[wkhanna]

Agreed 100%

[x43x]

I've got a bit of upgrade-itus...


Four years ago I purchased an Onkyo 805 receiver, and shortly after found a Rotel 1075 for cheap. I've been using the Onkyo as a pre/pro since, with the thought being I would upgrade to a Rotel soon. I didn't really like the features of the 1069, and the 1570 was still lacking, but the 1572 seems to have gotten it right. The Onkyo has suited me well these past few years and it works just fine but I've always thought I was cheating my B&W 704's of their full potential.

Worthwhile upgrade?

[madmac]

I've got a bit of upgrade-itus...


Four years ago I purchased an Onkyo 805 receiver, and shortly after found a Rotel 1075 for cheap. I've been using the Onkyo as a pre/pro since, with the thought being I would upgrade to a Rotel soon. I didn't really like the features of the 1069, and the 1570 was still lacking, but the 1572 seems to have gotten it right. The Onkyo has suited me well these past few years and it works just fine but I've always thought I was cheating my B&W 704's of their full potential.

Worthwhile upgrade?

YES !!! :T

[ldgibson76]

I've got a bit of upgrade-itus...


Four years ago I purchased an Onkyo 805 receiver, and shortly after found a Rotel 1075 for cheap. I've been using the Onkyo as a pre/pro since, with the thought being I would upgrade to a Rotel soon. I didn't really like the features of the 1069, and the 1570 was still lacking, but the 1572 seems to have gotten it right. The Onkyo has suited me well these past few years and it works just fine but I've always thought I was cheating my B&W 704's of their full potential.

Worthwhile upgrade?

Before I give you the unequivocal "YES!" I just need to qualify your inquiry regarding what you are really looking for.

You say you have an Onkyo 805 serving as a Pre-pro augmented with a Rotel RMB-1075. You are wondering if the 1572 is a worthy upgrade because you feel that you have been cheating your B&W 704's of their full potential.
You also say that you didn't like the features that the previous Rotel pre-pros (1069/1570) offered.

Okay, let's talk about the Onkyo. If the 805 has suited you these past few years and it works fine, why not try a newer Onkyo AVR or maybe the 5508? I'm just saying :huh: Being that you were happy with the 805's performance, the natural progression IMO would be the 5508. It's feature rich with programs like Audyssey MultEQ XT32, 9.2 channels, networking, USB connectivity for iPOD/iPhone, all the connections you could ever want including 2 HDMI outs! On the video side, it's chock with the best available processors. HQV Reon-VX processor, ISF calibration, etc,... check the specs below.

You say that you think Rotel got it this time with the 1572. Really!?! Well if you are basing the "Got it Right" description on features, then compared to the 5508, the Rotel 1572 is going to disappoint you. Even though Rotel has up the ante with 6 HDMI ins, 2 out with ARC, added parametric EQ settings for all 7 channels, compared to the Onkyo's feature set, the 1572 is lacking in a big way. Now if sound quality is the virtue, and you want the best out of your 704's, then yes, the 1572 may provide you with the performance you feel that you've been missing. By the way, the audio performance difference between the 1069 and 1570 vs. 1572, there won't be that much of a difference. The audio DAC's in all three are very similar. Case in point, the Signal to noise ratio..... An accurate measurement of the performance capability of the DAC's:
Signal to Noise Ratio (IHF A-weighted) in all three processors (1069,1570 and 1572) are as follows.
95dB (analog bypass)
92dB (Dolby Digital, DTS) 0 dBFs

And contrary to popular belief, all three Rotel's pass 3D video! All three have a pass-thru setting. :huh:

I say all of this because you said you did not like the feature set of the 1069 or the 1570, but you feel that the 1572 will/could be the answer. If it's features you want, go with the Onkyo 5508. If it's all out audio performance, then IMO the Rotel is the better choice. But understand, the Rotel is no walk in the park when it comes to getting the best sound. It took Kal 2 hours to get the 1572 dialed in. And he's a professional! The Onk's Audyssey will calibrate a lot faster and it's easier to negotiate. Whether that equates to superior audio quality is the real question isn't it?!

Onkyo PR-SC5508:
Processing:
THX® Ultra2 listening modes for optimized surround sound at any listening level
ISF video calibration
Dolby® TrueHD, DTS-HD™ Master Audio, Dolby® Digital Plus, DTS-HD™ High Resolution Audio, THX Surround EX®, Dolby® Digital EX, DTS-ES™ and DTS Neo:6 decoding
Dolby Pro Logic® IIz expands the soundstage's vertical dimension (requires an additional pair of "height" speakers)
analog-to-HDMI video upconversion (up to 1080p) with HQV Reon-VX video processing
Audyssey DSX processing for enhanced surround sound height and width effects using additional front speakers
Audyssey Laboratories' MultEQ® XT32 eight-point auto setup and room calibration system (microphone included)
Audyssey Dynamic EQ for fuller sound at lower listening levels
Audyssey Dynamic Volume mode keeps listening levels steady to avoid overly loud peaks such as on TV commercials
Digital music options:
streams music from your PC and the Internet, including Pandora, Napster, Slacker, Rhapsody, and vTuner Internet radio (broadband connection required)
plays music stored on MP3 players and flash drives via USB inputs
HD Radio ready (requires optional Onkyo UP-HT1 tuner)
SIRIUS satellite radio capable (requires SIRIUS subscription and optional SiriusConnect™ home tuner kit)
iPod®/iPhone® integration (video playback requires optional Onkyo UP-A1 dock)
DLNA certified to ensure optimal compatibility with other network-enabled equipment
Multi-room audio/video:
three-zone audio output
composite video output for 2nd room
only analog sources can be played in the 2nd and 3rd rooms
Audio performance features:
192kHz/32-bit Burr-Brown digital-to-analog converters for all channels
direct mode and pure audio mode switch off unnecessary circuitry to provide cleaner sound
Music Optimizer function enhances the sound quality of compressed music files
back surround channels re-assignable for bi-amping front left and right speakers
detachable power cord
Connections:
1080p-compatible HDMI switching: 8 in, 2 out (including 1 front-panel input)
HDMI version 1.4a with support for Deep Color, x.v.Color, lip-sync, 1080/24p video, 7.1 uncompressed 24/96 audio, DVD-Audio, SACD, and HDMI-CEC with compatible video sources and TVs
component video switching (3 in, 2 out)
digital audio inputs: 4 optical (including 1 front panel), 3 coaxial
front- and rear-panel USB inputs for audio playback from USB flash drives, hard disk drives, and portable MP3 music players
5 audio/video inputs, including:
1 front-panel input with composite video
4 rear-panel inputs with composite and S-video
4 audio-only inputs (including phono)
7.1-channel analog audio preamp input
9.2-channel analog audio preamp output (RCA and balanced XLR)
Ethernet port for music streaming from a PC network
RS-232 port for automated control systems
General features:
on-screen display for easy setup and operation
40 AM/FM/SIRIUS presets
learning/multibrand remote
17-1/8"W x 7-7/8"H x 19-5/16"D
weight: 30.9 lbs.
warranty: 2 years

Hell of a feature set, wouldn't you say? The 1572 doesn't even come close. But does that really matter when sound quality and getting the most out of your 704's was your mission, right?

I'm not telling you to nix the 1572. What I am telling you is that your inquiry although made with good intentions, is disingenuous at best. You ask for performance but claim the older models did not have the feature set you desired. Guess what, neither will the 1572. That's if features are what you are really looking for. If I had my choice, I'd pick the Rotel all day over the Onk. But that's just me, because for me, the audio quality is the virtue.

I didn't mean to come off so direct,.... well.... yes i did! Honesty is the best policy.

All I'm saying is to make sure you measure what's most important. will the 1572 give you the best of both worlds? Possibly, with a little calibration skill and patience, it really could be the best kept secret out there.

[x43x]

Thank you for the great response! I should have been a bit clearer in my original post. I didn't think about getting the 1069, or the 1068 for that matter because neither could decode Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD, not to mention the lack of HDMI 1.3 support. The 1570 was better, but without any sort of room EQ, I decided to wait. Now Rotel comes out with everything I've been looking for, so yes, I am interested.

What I am most concerned about is the audio quality. Will the pairing of a Rotel processor to a Rotel amp take my experience up a notch? I think it will, but I wanted to ask those that have had their 1572 first. Judging by your response, it seems you think so too. I use my system for home theater, DVD-A, and SACDs, with some video games thrown in once and a while.

I'm aware of the Onkyo and Integra feature sets (pretty much why I picked up the 805 four years ago), but most of the new fancy stuff I don't need or want. I use an Oppo 83 for most audio and video playout, with the video on pass through. Same with the PS3, so the upconversion would be wasted since I don't have that many video sources. PLIIz...meh. For streaming, I already have an Apple Express behind my stand which feeds the Onkyo for streaming itunes, and provides a 'wired' ethernet to the PS3. I live in a small condo, so the multi-room functions aren't necessary. I guess the 4K future proofing is pretty cool, but realistically not something I need at the moment, or in the next 10 years if my Kuro holds up in good working order.

I would say the only thing I might miss is the easy Audyssey setup and the networking capabilities. Even if it takes me a week to setup the Rotel, I would most likely get years of enjoyment out of it. The lack of firmware updates via the internet does seem pretty annoying. Having to use a Windows machine and perform a couple dozen steps doesn't seem like a good time, but if I will gain a superior listening experience, then I shouldn't complain too much.

Thanks again for being honest. I'm a fan of constructive criticism.

[Kal Rubinson]

............Whether that equates to superior audio quality is the real question isn't it?!
..............................
..........I didn't mean to come off so direct,.... well.... yes i did! Honesty is the best policy.

Well put.

[ldgibson76]

Thank you for the great response! I should have been a bit clearer in my original post. I didn't think about getting the 1069, or the 1068 for that matter because neither could decode Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD, not to mention the lack of HDMI 1.3 support. The 1570 was better, but without any sort of room EQ, I decided to wait. Now Rotel comes out with everything I've been looking for, so yes, I am interested.

What I am most concerned about is the audio quality. Will the pairing of a Rotel processor to a Rotel amp take my experience up a notch? I think it will, but I wanted to ask those that have had their 1572 first. Judging by your response, it seems you think so too. I use my system for home theater, DVD-A, and SACDs, with some video games thrown in once and a while.

I'm aware of the Onkyo and Integra feature sets (pretty much why I picked up the 805 four years ago), but most of the new fancy stuff I don't need or want. I use an Oppo 83 for most audio and video playout, with the video on pass through. Same with the PS3, so the upconversion would be wasted since I don't have that many video sources. PLIIz...meh. For streaming, I already have an Apple Express behind my stand which feeds the Onkyo for streaming itunes, and provides a 'wired' ethernet to the PS3. I live in a small condo, so the multi-room functions aren't necessary. I guess the 4K future proofing is pretty cool, but realistically not something I need at the moment, or in the next 10 years if my Kuro holds up in good working order.

I would say the only thing I might miss is the easy Audyssey setup and the networking capabilities. Even if it takes me a week to setup the Rotel, I would most likely get years of enjoyment out of it. The lack of firmware updates via the internet does seem pretty annoying. Having to use a Windows machine and perform a couple dozen steps doesn't seem like a good time, but if I will gain a superior listening experience, then I shouldn't complain too much.

Thanks again for being honest. I'm a fan of constructive criticism.

Hey, just trying to help. It's good to see that you do have a true pulse on what you are expecting. The problem I have with a lot of the Rotel detractors is that they want Rotel to be like the mainstream manufacturers. Filling boxes with every available technology and having a bunch of features that in a way, in the grand scheme of things, equate to mediocrity in the areas where you really want excellence! Rotel is an audio first company and I love the fact that they try hard to stay true to that business model. At the same time, the market applies pressure to manufacturers like Rotel, causing what I consider "Selling out" or losing their identity for the sake of the expectations set by the mainstream manufacturers (the latest and greatest, therefore you must have it or your product is lacking!) causing Rotel to in a way, compromise on their principles.
Not only that, there are the pricing parameters Rotel must consider. By the way, Rotel makes a feature laden flagship pre-pro called the RSP-1580! The 1580 is a beast, but the chances of it making it to these shores is unlikely due to the costs. It has the features that the 5509/80.3 has and then some, but it also includes Rotel's commitment to audio quality resulting in significant cost almost doubling what an Onkyo or Integra would retail for. Remember, Rotel has a commitment to provide products with strong performance and value for the dollar.

A $4K pre-pro, albeit an awesome product is contrary to what Rotel is trying to do in this country which is to maintain a presence in this market and be profitable. You already have Arcam, Anthem, Bryston among others that make hi-end high dollar pre-pros. And because they refuse to compromise, their prducts are in the 4K+ range. Here's the crazy part, the difference in audio performance between the Arcam, Anthem and Bryston is nominal! It's not a night a day difference. Definitely not a $2-3K difference. That's what makes the Rotel such a smart move for those who want hi-end performance without having to sacrifice the kids tuition to get it.

The 1572 does fit the bill, even if it doesn't have Audyssey! It's still going to sound better than the other pre-pro's in it's price range and still perform admirably when it comes to video responsibilities.

With that said, being that you understand Rotel's framework when it comes to 1572, even with the it's idiosyncrasies, is in my opinion, a solid upgrade if you want superior audio performance, acceptable video switching and upconverting if needed and synergy with your existing Rotel RMB-1075, not to mention, the good looks!

By the way, if you think all of the other pre-pros are free of issues, go and hang out at AVS Forum.com's "Amps, Receivers and Processors" thread. You will see countless threads and posts with members crying or complaining about something being wrong with their new, "features out of the wha-zoo", latest and greatest pre-pro or AVR!

I know my next pre-pro will be a 1572. :B I've said my piece! :W

[ldgibson76]

Well put.

Thanks Kal. And BTW, an excellent review on the RSP-1572.

[ldgibson76]

@ x43x:

One other thing. What I really like about Rotel is that they would rather the owner trust their ears to what sounds good, then some program that tells the owner what sounds good! I always question those who say after an Audyssey calibration, that their system sounds better than ever! :roll: Not that that's an impossibility. But I have read way too many times where those who've initiated and completed the Audyssey calibration, found themselves not in agreement with the Audyssey final settings resulting in manual adjustments in speaker size settings, subwoofer leveling, crossover points or just plain turning Audyssey off and gong back to a Radio Shack SPL meter and using the ears God gave them! :W

One area where I will concede to Audyssey and give props,.... dual sub calibration/equalization. The XT32 is beneficial without question.

Now I'm finished! :B

[x43x]

Funny you mention that. After Audyssey did its thing with the 805, I manually tweaked many of the settings.

I only have one sub, a ML Depth i, which is plenty in my condo.

The 1580 is glorious, but a bit out of my price range. I have too many expensive hobbies...

I need to pick up that Stereophile to read the review!

[Kal Rubinson]

One other thing. What I really like about Rotel is that they would rather the owner trust their ears to what sounds good, then some program that tells the owner what sounds good! I always question those who say after an Audyssey calibration, that their system sounds better than ever! :roll: Not that that's an impossibility. But I have read way too many times where those who've initiated and completed the Audyssey calibration, found themselves not in agreement with the Audyssey final settings resulting in manual adjustments in speaker size settings, subwoofer leveling, crossover points or just plain turning Audyssey off and gong back to a Radio Shack SPL meter and using the ears God gave them! :W

I disagree completely. There is no way that anyone (except for some trained professional acoustical experts) can properly EQ with their ears and without measurements. Anyone can set something up to his liking but it is unlikely, given the human nervous system, it will come anywhere near correct settings. and that is only in the FR domain. Even fewer will be able to determine and compensate for time decay variations in the room. Finally, the RS SLM is a good tool for anything that does not involve distinguishing levels between frequencies in the low frequencies or about the Q of peaks/nulls and it is entirely unable to provide any information about decays.

It is one thing to use Audyssey (or ARC or Trinnov or Dirac, etc.) to optimize the system's performance so you can tweak it (away from correct) to your personal preference. In think everyone is fine with that. It is quite another to set it up by ear, even with a trusty RS SLM, and hope to achieve the same level of performance. Your ears are not up to it unless you have perfect pitch and acoustical training.

One area where I will concede to Audyssey and give props,.... dual sub calibration/equalization. The XT32 is beneficial without question.

Oh yeah? Well, I agree with that.

Now I'm finished! :B

Me, too.:B

[ldgibson76]

I disagree completely. There is no way that anyone (except for some trained professional acoustical experts) can properly EQ with their ears and without measurements. Anyone can set something up to his liking but it is unlikely, given the human nervous system, it will come anywhere near correct settings. and that is only in the FR domain. Even fewer will be able to determine and compensate for time decay variations in the room. Finally, the RS SLM is a good tool for anything that does not involve distinguishing levels between frequencies in the low frequencies or about the Q of peaks/nulls and it is entirely unable to provide any information about decays.

It is one thing to use Audyssey (or ARC or Trinnov or Dirac, etc.) to optimize the system's performance so you can tweak it (away from correct) to your personal preference. In think everyone is fine with that. It is quite another to set it up by ear, even with a trusty RS SLM, and hope to achieve the same level of performance. Your ears are not up to it unless you have perfect pitch and acoustical training.

Oh yeah? Well, I agree with that.

Me, too.:B

Hello Kal.

I must say that for me, it is very humbling that you would take the time to contribute to this conversation. I am by now means a pro at this, barely a novice, at best. You are the man and I know that on several forum sites, you are held in the highest regard and posters yield to your perspective and knowledge. So I know not to even challenge you in this subject matter.

I do agree with you wholeheartedly regarding having a trained ear along with an educated understanding of how to assess acoustic measurements and the like. Im not so arrogant to think I or anyone else with an untrained ear could achieve the same results as room correction software. Even with the assistance of the trusty old RS SPL meter. :B Audyssey or any room correcting software will undoubtedly yield better results 10 out of 10 times.

But what I do not agree with is the fact that it's the end all be all. Especially when many believe they have to make minor corrections after the calibration. Now, I must qualify that by saying that it's because of the initial calibration that the adjustments however minor in nature is just that, minor, because of the initial calibration. So Sir Kal, I digress and yield to your logic and knowledge! ;x( All hail Rubinson! :amen:

I hope you do not feel I'm being facetious because I'm not. I know when I'm in the presence of GURU-DOM! :W

[x43x]

Kal,

Maybe this was addressed in your review of the 1572, but with all idiosyncrasies aside and based solely on audio performance, do you prefer the sound from an Audyssey EQed Integra 80.3, or a pro calibrated Rotel 1572?

[Kal Rubinson]

But what I do not agree with is the fact that it's the end all be all.

No one said it was. The bottom line is the satisfaction of the listener/owner and what we are discussing is how he gets there.

[Kal Rubinson]

Maybe this was addressed in your review of the 1572, but with all idiosyncrasies aside and based solely on audio performance, do you prefer the sound from an Audyssey EQed Integra 80.3, or a pro calibrated Rotel 1572?

I kept the 80.2 because, even with the careful/manual (but hardly pro) calibration, XT32 gets me closer to what I want.

[ldgibson76]

No one said it was. The bottom line is the satisfaction of the listener/owner and what we are discussing is how he gets there.

I realize that and I apologize if it sounded as if I was implying the contrary. Again, I know it's a great tool and many have and/or will benefit from the technology.