Local HT meet with Marc Schnoll of B&W/Rotel

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  • greggz
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2002
    • 317

    Local HT meet with Marc Schnoll of B&W/Rotel

    My local Rotel/B&W dealer hosted an “invitation-only” (translation: you’ve spent money here before) event the week to meet Marc Schnoll, who is a product specialist with B&W and Rotel.

    Marc was a very informative and entertaining speaker. He talked quite a bit about the history of B&W and Rotel, the philosophy of each company, gave out some neat stuff (B&W/Rotel hats, B&W/Rotel T-shirts, Sara K. Nautilus Tour 2002 DVD’s :T , and the Rotel Encyclopedia of Home Theater and HiFi :T ), and then did a few demos.

    One demo room was multi-channel, using a 705/HTM7/DS7 combination driven with a Rotel RDV-1050/RSP-1098/RMB-1095. The other demo room was a pair of 802’s driven with McIntosh gear (didn’t pay attention to models).

    Here are a few interesting facts/topics covered (I hope I remember all of this correctly).

    B&W did $150 million in sales last year (that’s wholesale to dealers, not the value of what the dealers sell stuff at)

    B&W is the #4 speaker brand in the US (behind Bose, JBL, and Polk).

    For speakers costing at least $1,000 each (or $2,000 per pair), B&W controls 50% of the GLOBAL market. :E

    B&W owns B&W, Classe’ and one other company (something like iConnect or iCommand or iControl – a Creston-like device company). Rotel is a separate company, but they share a R&D facility with B&W and a distribution channel. Rotel is a Japanese parent company, but all components are “voiced” in the UK which gives them that “British sound.”

    The B&W research facility is amazing. He said they have something on the order of 3 dozen PhD’s working at the facility. Any piece of equipment needed for testing or measurement can be found there. Most speaker manufacturers have to rent time in anechoic chambers at local universities. B&W has TWO anechoic chambers at their research facility.

    50% of the cost to manufacture a B&W Nautilus speaker goes into the cabinet. Not only is the curvature of the Nautilus cabinet difficult and expensive to make, but the matrix bracing is very expensive too. B&W recently bought their own cabinet making company (located in Denmark).

    There is an enormous cost in tooling up to produce a new speaker line. The Nautilus line cost several million dollars in tool-up cost

    There is a single employee responsible for the construction of the Nautilus “snails”.

    On average they sell a pair of the Nautilus “snails” ($40,000 a pair) each month, except last month was an unusual month when a single individual alone bought 7 of them (along with four $10,000 amps PER speaker to drive them)

    B&W originally held a 20 year patent on the use of Kevlar for woofers, but that patent has recently expired. However, B&W uses a very specific weave pattern for that Kevlar, and only they and DuPont know that pattern, and it is still protected by a patent.

    Marc addressed one attendees question about Rotel and their manufacturing plant in China. The plant is a Rotel-owned plant and in the “free-trade” zone of China. Working conditions are good. If Rotel didn’t manufacture in China they’d probably have to charge 4 to 5 times what they currently charge. Having their own factory allows Rotel to better control how their products are made and what components are used as opposed to other companies that outsource their manufacturing

    When asked if we would be seeing FireWire, DVI, or HDMI any time soon on a Rotel pre/pro. Marc said yes, probably HDMI. The real issue is the licensing cost for the technology. There is a flat fee for the technology, plus a per unit fee. It could really add up.

    Marc did publicly acknowledge that there is a Rotel universal DVD-A/SACD player in the works but he could not give any specifications on it because the prototype hasn’t even been completed yet.

    And finally, when asked about what future speakers we can expect to see from B&W. He said that he is unable to give any details, but with big grin strongly emphasized that 2006 is B&W’s 40th Anniversary.
    arty:
    Gregg

    Our Home Theater
  • will1066
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2003
    • 660

    #2
    Excellent, Gregg! Thanks. Sounds to me the Nautilus models are good for another 18 months or so.

    Comment

    • aud19
      Twin Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2003
      • 16706

      #3
      Well that's pretty cool, still you should have tried to sneek the rest of us in :lol:

      Good to hear about the Rotel universal and some sort of 40th anniversary B&W's :P

      Jason
      Jason

      Comment

      • KRC
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2004
        • 166

        #4
        Seeing the connection between Rotel and B&W, could I assume that the amp in my ASW 600 is a Rotel unit? The best sound I have personnaly heard was at a store inToronto (Brack's) that had N 801's hooked up to Mark Levinson electronics and AQ wired throughout. I would love to hear the "Snail" just to hear the extreme. Win the million, win the million, win the million.

        Comment

        • greggz
          Senior Member
          • Jun 2002
          • 317

          #5
          KRC,

          ...could I assume that the amp in my ASW 600 is a Rotel unit?
          Funny you should mention that. The answer is no.

          Marc was asked who made the amps used in B&W subs and he said "It's not B&W and its not Rotel, and I'd rather not say who it is."
          Gregg

          Our Home Theater

          Comment

          • will1066
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2003
            • 660

            #6
            Oh man, it's Bose!

            Comment

            • aarsoe
              Senior Member
              • May 2004
              • 795

              #7
              Dont know about the 600 - but B&W have started using ICE Power amps in their subs. ICE is a fully owned daughter company of Bang & Olufsen..

              Not really a high end company..

              Comment

              • DrBoom
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2003
                • 325

                #8
                Maybe B&O isn't a high-end company, but they do have a ton of patents runnign worldwide and they're used in a lot of products that ARE considered high-end.
                The B&W PV1 uses ICEpower modules, but I'm not sure the ASW675-700-750-800-850 do.
                I once was told the amps are made by Marantz, not sure if it's true or just another legend

                Oh man, it's Bose!
                Lol :B

                Regarding the 2006 40th anniversary, I can see 2 things happening.
                Either the introduction of the new 800 series, or the introduction of some kind of special edition like the Silver Signature in 1991 for the 25th anniversary.
                If it's the new 800 series, good, that means my speakers will remain in the current line up for another 18 months ;D
                Always nice to know something you just bought hasn't gone out of style yet.
                It does seem like a long wait, I'd have expected the release sooner so that's still an option.

                Comment

                • greggz
                  Senior Member
                  • Jun 2002
                  • 317

                  #9
                  ...that means my speakers will remain in the current line up for another 18 months ;D
                  I dont think you have much to worry about. The Matix line came out around 1987. The Nautilus line around 1998. I would suspect that the Nautilus line will be around for sevaral more years.
                  Gregg

                  Our Home Theater

                  Comment

                  • sikoniko
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Aug 2003
                    • 2299

                    #10
                    greggz,

                    I dig your setup. Did you use the mounts that come with the scm1's or are those custom? My fiance has pretty much given up on my HT setup and realizes that until I finish my upgrades, Im going to want, so she has given me the go-ahead to get them when I can afford it. She also likes that they are significantly smaller than the 603's I have as rears now, and can mount on the wall.
                    I'm just sittin here watchin the wheels go round and round...

                    Comment

                    • greggz
                      Senior Member
                      • Jun 2002
                      • 317

                      #11
                      They are the standard "L" brackets that came with the SCM1's.

                      While the SCM1's sound great, as far as speakers go, I am having a tuff time positioning them in my room. I originally had them mounted directly to the left and right of the primary seat and about 2 feet about ear level (per the Dolby recommendation). For HT it wasn’t awful, but I didn’t like it at all for SACD.

                      I have since moved them back, more like the SACD recommendation, and a bit lower, but I am still not 100% happy. I think they still need to go lower. I still feel like they tend to image at the front of the room.
                      Gregg

                      Our Home Theater

                      Comment

                      • sikoniko
                        Super Senior Member
                        • Aug 2003
                        • 2299

                        #12
                        I don't listen to multi-channel audio at this point and am only looking for surround speakers. how do they fair in that application?
                        I'm just sittin here watchin the wheels go round and round...

                        Comment

                        • jlee
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2004
                          • 337

                          #13
                          I have a set of custom made SCM1 brackets that you may be interested in. It allows tilting in both directions. If you want, I can take a picture of them later and email or post them up for you. I found that it is very important to aim them at your ears, so even if they are higher up, they are effectively at "ear level" in terms of the imaging with regards to the other speakers. They also tail off in response after a 10 deg angle as per the B&W specs, so you want to make sure you're within 5-10 deg, preferably 0 deg (midrange and tweeter pointed directly to your preferred seating position) for best results. It took me a long time to finally get them right.

                          Comment

                          • greggz
                            Senior Member
                            • Jun 2002
                            • 317

                            #14
                            I don't listen to multi-channel audio at this point and am only looking for surround speakers. how do they fair in that application?
                            I'd save some money then and go with the new DS7's.
                            Gregg

                            Our Home Theater

                            Comment

                            • greggz
                              Senior Member
                              • Jun 2002
                              • 317

                              #15
                              jlee,

                              Yes, I would be very intersted to see pics of how you mounted yours.
                              Gregg

                              Our Home Theater

                              Comment

                              • jlee
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2004
                                • 337

                                #16
                                Hello. Here are some pics for you. I used the 7 "blue dots" in between the bottom of the speaker and the bracket so as to no scratch the bottoms. You can mount them right side up or upside down. I actually got better results upside down because I could get them further away from my ears and almost the same distance as the front and centers. I'm within 12" of being the same distance as the fronts/centers so I don't have to use any delay (the preferred method). Plus, with the angle I needed to angle them, having them upside down is a bit safer than right side up. If you need to angle more than 10 deg, I would suggest upside down. I had them as much as 15 deg. right side up, but then it starts to look awkward. The upside down look IMO is really cool . I saw a picture of Abbey Road Studios where they recorded Gladiator, and they used 5 HTM1's in an 8.1 surround system where all the HTM1's were upside down from the ceiling. So I tried to emulate that with my system .

                                Also, the top of the bracket has dust on it, not a "rough finish". It is actually a solid black anodized aluminum finish. I don't get up there very often to dust them. I guess now is a good time. I'll post some more pics of my 705's on similar mounts (this time right side up) in my office. If anybody is interested, I have a set of similar custom made mounts for 1NT's for sale. I upgraded from 1NT to 705 when the 705 first came out using my dealer's trade in program and have no use for the 1NT brackets any longer. They are a flush finish and I can post some pics later or email them to you if interested.
                                Attached Files

                                Comment

                                • Andrew Pratt
                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                  • Aug 2000
                                  • 16507

                                  #17
                                  B&W owns B&W, Classe’ and one other company (something like iConnect or iCommand or iControl – a Creston-like device company). Rotel is a separate company, but they share a R&D facility with B&W and a distribution channel. Rotel is a Japanese parent company, but all components are “voiced” in the UK which gives them that “British sound.”
                                  That would be iCommand and its VERY cool technology :W

                                  Comment

                                  • greggz
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Jun 2002
                                    • 317

                                    #18
                                    iThanks, iAndrew!

                                    I thought I had seen something on B&W's website a long time back about it, but then it dissapeared. I now see that they have their own website.

                                    Gregg

                                    Our Home Theater

                                    Comment

                                    • greggz
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Jun 2002
                                      • 317

                                      #19
                                      jlee,

                                      Thanks for the picutres! Very interesting. I have been contemplating flipping mine upside down for a while, but have been too scared that I might drop them while trying to get the screws back in. :E (I need to angle them down too, but that back right corner gives me all kinds of positioning grief being so tight.)

                                      Does that mount approach give you any problem with vibrations?
                                      Gregg

                                      Our Home Theater

                                      Comment

                                      • jlee
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Aug 2004
                                        • 337

                                        #20
                                        I was kinda scared of dropping them too. If absolutely necessary, I CAN mount them myself, but it's VERY hard. It's much easier with 2 people. Just have somebody hold it up while you screw in the first 2 screws. Once you get the first 2 in, you'll be ok. These particular brackets stick out about 9", but if you needed more room to angle even more, you can get the longer ones that stick out about 15".

                                        No problem with vibrations. I tested this with the speakers playing at high volume with bass heavy material. IDEALLY, you want the speaker totally still for the best imaging and bass control, but as surrounds and considering the size, I don't think my current setup creates a significant loss in that regard. Certainly not any less than the stock brackets that come with the speaker. I'm working on developing version 2 of the custom bracket that WILL keep the speaker completely still at the top and bottom. We'll see if I ever get done with it .

                                        Comment

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