Rotel vs. Classé

[TommyV]

BWLover,

I do not know if it is too late but I would say it would be a mistake to waste your money on new cables, a DAC and all that. I think you were going in the right direction in the first place. You should try out some new amps and see how they hold up to your 1080. My best advise would be get a used Classe from Audiogon at the best price possible and then get it home and compare to your Rotel. If you get a good deal on a used one, you should be able to turn right around and sell it at no loss so no risk there. You may have to really check everyday if you want a Delta series as they seem to sell immediately.

I also suggest giving Emotiva a try. I really like their amps sound. They have one called the XPA2 that has your name all over it (it is even on sale right now). Or if you really want to go nuts, go for true monoblocks. I think that may be overkill for your speakers though.



Number of Channels: 2

Topology: Fully Discrete, Dual Differential, High Current, Short Signal Path Class A/B

Power output (all channels driven):
500 watts RMS @ 4 ohm (0.1% THD)
250 watts RMS @ 8 ohm (0.1% THD)

[sunshdw]

Emotiva XPA2 vs. RB1080
250wx2 .1 THD 200wx2 .06 THD
S/N 100Db S/N 116DB
? dampning factor 1000 dampning factor

On paper the Rotel is cleaner but the Emotiva's sound may be better to some. :huh:

I agree on the Classe' advise, definate upgrade going that route. :T

[BWLover]

I won't be making any upgrades right away. they will be made in coming months. so all the opinions are still welcome

[jamesdaman]

I cant believe people still to this day say cables make no differnce, its total crap. They make a MASSIVE differnce, i added a chord company chameleon to my system and it added so much, infact i was more impressed with that then my cyrus cd8se nd psx-r

[TommyV]

I never said cables make no difference but I am not into spending big bucks on overpriced cables. I did the research and purchased a 1000 ft roll of Belden RG6 and make my own cables to my specific lengths.

I also say if you want to "upgrade" your system, unless you are using little string bean throw away RCAs then a better amp or speakers if going to make much more sense than dropping hundred to thousands of dollars on cable jewelry. If you have the best equipment you want already and want some pretty cables and have the money, go for it.

[jamesdaman]

no agreed i wouldnt spend more then £300 a meter on interconnects with my system but if you do spend £300 or so you will hear a massive differnce. I have to say the just from the chrimson to the chameleon was more then double the quality, and that doesnt often happen in hifi

[TommyV]

I don't want to pull out my conversion chart for meters and pounds but I got my 1000 foot roll of cable of the best RG59 (did not mean RG6) Made here in the USA for about $300. The RCA connectors cost a few dollars each when I buy them in a 50 pack. I had to buy compression tool (aprox $75) as well but I can use it for F connectors & BNC as well.

Most of these expensive cable makers are just dressed up made in china stuff. I buy cable made here in the USA and I assemble them myself. I know they are top quality and would put them up against any others. I have some friends who have asked me to make cable sets for them and I usually just charge them $10 per 6 ft cable. I probably make no profit but I don't mind it is not my day job.

[jamesdaman]

the chord company make all there cables here in the UK from the cheapest to the most expensive. I dont think they are over price at all, i think in this world as well as hifi you get what you pay for. Its all very well have a 911 turbo but if the roads are made of broken stone and dirt your not going to get anywhere fast

[SoundEngine355]

no agreed i wouldnt spend more then £300 a meter on interconnects with my system but if you do spend £300 or so you will hear a massive differnce. I have to say the just from the chrimson to the chameleon was more then double the quality, and that doesnt often happen in hifi

Classe Audio uses the Chord Chameleon Silver Plus interconnect cable in the Delta series amplifiers. This is used from the XLR/RCA inputs to the amplifier module. I was quite surprised when I opened up my Classe CA-M400, so obviously the best interconnect to use for an all Classe system is the Chord Chameleon Silver Plus.

[SoundEngine355]

BWLover,

I do not know if it is too late but I would say it would be a mistake to waste your money on new cables, a DAC and all that. I think you were going in the right direction in the first place. You should try out some new amps and see how they hold up to your 1080. My best advise would be get a used Classe from Audiogon at the best price possible and then get it home and compare to your Rotel. If you get a good deal on a used one, you should be able to turn right around and sell it at no loss so no risk there. You may have to really check everyday if you want a Delta series as they seem to sell immediately.

I also suggest giving Emotiva a try. I really like their amps sound. They have one called the XPA2 that has your name all over it (it is even on sale right now). Or if you really want to go nuts, go for true monoblocks. I think that may be overkill for your speakers though.



Number of Channels: 2

Topology: Fully Discrete, Dual Differential, High Current, Short Signal Path Class A/B

Power output (all channels driven):
500 watts RMS @ 4 ohm (0.1% THD)
250 watts RMS @ 8 ohm (0.1% THD)

I have built a number of amplifiers over the years, the latest was a pair of 300W/8 and 500W/4 mono blocks using all high quality parts from Nichicon and Mundorf. I am currently waiting on new internal cables for input and output. I've done some testing using the current internal cabling against the Classe CA-M400 on the B&W 800D's, even though my DIY amplifier gives up 100W/8 and 300W/4 to the M400, it has better bass, mids and top-end across all types of music.

Bottom line is, I'm sure Emotive is going to be good quality, I'm spoken with then a few times about their designs, they seem solid, however the THD does seem alittle high.

[miner]

I am contemplating an upgrade to my analogue system. Either replace my Dynaudio 52SE/Audience Sub20A combo with Special 25 or something from the Dyn Contour line OR replacing my Rotel pre/amp with a Classe' CAP-2100 or Classe amp/pre, maybe even a McIntosh integrated. For those who have upgraded their electronics, was it a diminishing return or was the added co$t worth it? There are so many Rotel bashers on other sites that consider it entry level at best. I am not sure what to expect in sonic improvement.

[TommyV]

If I had the money there is no doubt I would have a SSP-800 and a big Classe amp but that is out of my price range. If you can afford it, I say it is worth it. Luckily my dealer is like a showcase for every Rotel/Classe/B&W and Mac product there is. He has like 7 listening rooms with one being the ultimate 7.2 theater using all top of the line Classe equipment and B&W 800 series. He loves showing this room off (not just to look at but to enjoy) and it is the most amazing setup I have ever experienced.

Whoever is bashing Rotel I would just ignore and rely on your own good sense to tell you how good it is or is not compared to other gear.

[miner]

I assume your dealer is Modia - if so, different story here in the Houston area. Only guy I know at this outfit that knows what he is talking baout is in the clearance center shipping center. Anytime I make a purchase I always go out of my way to go there and see him. I think my $3000 would be better spent on speakers vs upgrading electronics (couldn't upgrade them for $3000 anyway).

Why doesn't Modia have a trade up policy? I don't like their CS and the way they treat me and a customer. It is too bad they are the only B&W/Classe' dealer in the area. Dynaudio took away their franchise because of the way Modia was doing business.

[TommyV]

I am an EX Home Theater Store now Modia customer. I was very unhappy with the customer service and all around experience I got there.

Now I go to a place called Hi End Theater & Audio in Plano. It is independently owned one store dealer. I think his store puts to shame even the nicest Modia (Dowtown Dallas).

Also he treats you with respect and is just a nice guy. His wife works there and all so it is like family owned type of business but super nice.

[hifiguymi]

I am contemplating an upgrade to my analogue system. Either replace my Dynaudio 52SE/Audience Sub20A combo with Special 25 or something from the Dyn Contour line OR replacing my Rotel pre/amp with a Classe' CAP-2100 or Classe amp/pre, maybe even a McIntosh integrated. For those who have upgraded their electronics, was it a diminishing return or was the added co$t worth it? There are so many Rotel bashers on other sites that consider it entry level at best. I am not sure what to expect in sonic improvement.

This, just like any upgrade question, will always elicit different answers. I personally think you should look at your electronics before your speakers. The CAP-2100 is much better than any Rotel preamp / power amp combo I've heard and I'm a Rotel owner. You would be amazed how good decent speakers can sound will really good electronics running them. That is not a slam on Rotel, it's just reality.

Eric

[lastexit]

Just stumbled onto this thread; lots of differing opinions indeed.

A lot of people claim that two solid state amplifiers playing at the same volume level well within its limits (without any distortion or clipping) will sound exactly the same. I don't have a spare power amplifier in my house to test this out, but the more you read into this stuff, the more it makes sense. My dealer even scoffs at audiophiles who spend more money on amps rather than the speakers and/or source. I don't think anyone should cheapen out on the amplification, but the Rotel RB-1080 is a quality amp with enough juice for most environments.

I'm sure the OP has made his choice by now, this thread is over two years old. But I think if you're looking for an improvement in your system, upgrading the speakers and/or source is the way to go...providing you actually have the correct wattage you need for your listening environment. Just my opinion in already a long line of ones. :T

[madmac]

Just stumbled onto this thread; lots of differing opinions indeed.

A lot of people claim that two solid state amplifiers playing at the same volume level well within its limits (without any distortion or clipping) will sound exactly the same. I don't have a spare power amplifier in my house to test this out, but the more you read into this stuff, the more it makes sense. My dealer even scoffs at audiophiles who spend more money on amps rather than the speakers and/or source. I don't think anyone should cheapen out on the amplification, but the Rotel RB-1080 is a quality amp with enough juice for most environments.

I'm sure the OP has made his choice by now, this thread is over two years old. But I think if you're looking for an improvement in your system, upgrading the speakers and/or source is the way to go...providing you actually have the correct wattage you need for your listening environment. Just my opinion in already a long line of ones. :T

It's a known fact that a speaker upgrade will give you the biggest improvement/ change in sound. However, do not believe for a second that two different amps playing at the same volume within their power limits will sound the same!!. I had a high end Yamaha amp for years and liked it until I changed to a Rotel amp. Honestly, it was like someone had removed a filter from my sound and EVERYTHING came alive!!. You have to understand that I listen to a lot of music and I had heard some songs 1000 times with the Yamaha in the same room, with the same speakers. In a showroom with different speakers and equipment, going from one amp to another, the effects would undoubtedly be less dramatic. Trust me when I say there is a huge difference between amps!!. I'm sure if I transitioned from Rotel to classe the results would be equally dramatic!. My wallet will never allow that however :lol:

[lastexit]

I'm sure if I transitioned from Rotel to classe the results would be equally dramatic!

Other than the fancy face plate and sleek styling, I highly doubt you would notice a dramatic difference.

[Glen B]

While I agree that upgrading one's speakers is a good way to improve performance, if you don't believe there are sonic differences between amps, then HTG is probably not the place for you. I think you will find the majority of members don't share your view. There are other discussion forums where you will find like members who share the "Stereo-Review" sounds the same ideal. I have seven different amps at home right now, and while they all sound great, my Classé amps are just more refined.

[lastexit]

I did say, "A lot of people claim that two..." but that doesn't mean I agree with their argument. The more I've looked into it, the more convincing it seems but like I said I do not have an additional amplifier on hand to test this theory. So until then, I'm not entirely convinced either way. I do recall reading somewhere that someone offered $10,000 for anyone who could detect differences between amplifiers below clipping. I thought it was crazy that everyone failed the test!

In what ways is the Classe more refined than your other amps?

But I will say this: I DO think that visual aesthetics gives a certain brand an edge when it comes to buying a product. When you walk into a shop and see a fabulous looking piece of gear like Classe or McIntosh sitting next to a plain old Rotel amp, naturally it's going to sound better. :W

[mjb]

lastexit, the easy thing for you is to go into a dealer and ask for an amp A/B test between say a low and high end amp from any manufacturer - if YOU don't hear a difference, then I'm envious because now you can happily save your money in the knowledge that spending more wont achieve anything.

Amplifiers are spec'ed using sine waves, but music has a very complex waveform. One cannot compare the two. At any instant in time, music contains a plethora of fundamentals and an infinite number of harmonics, reaching far out in the spectrum, beyond even the audible portion. But time is always moving, and obviously so is this waveform. Acoustic performance is judged by the ability to deal with and accurately reproduce such complex waveforms. Not how well one can reproduce a solitary sinewave at a specified frequency.

Many HTG forum members spend years, and their hard earned cash, tweaking every last bit of performance out of their systems with great enthusiasm and glee. That is the purpose and satisfaction of the hobby. You're in the wrong place to suggest that this is all in vain.

The difference is NOT physiological due solely to the blinding shiny new face plate, or a reflection of financial outlay, its real. Otherwise the spectrum of price and performance of equipment on offer today simply wouldn't be available.

[specialized]

[QUOTE=lastexit]I did say, "A lot of people claim that two..." but that doesn't mean I agree with their argument. The more I've looked into it, the more convincing it seems but like I said I do not have an additional amplifier on hand to test this theory. So until then, I'm not entirely convinced either way. I do recall reading somewhere that someone offered $10,000 for anyone who could detect differences between amplifiers below clipping. I thought it was crazy that everyone failed the test!

In what ways is the Classe more refined than your other amps?


I had the same idea for a long time.. Until I have a chance to have few amps at my place.. And there is difference between amps.. Big difference u can feel also on low volume listening.. So try by u'r self.. One period i was using two ROTEL RB-1080 as one amp per speaker. I was thinking that this is the great thing and i dont need more expensive amp for my 803s.Also all negative things i had, i was explaining with the room acoustic . Then i tried MC275, MC501 and Finally Krell FPB-300C. All combination sound different between each other. At least on my 803s. My perfect match was Krell FPB-300C with Benchmark DAC1 Pre. I had a McIntosh C2300 which i sold, and now Benchmark is connected directly to Krell with DYI Silver Cable. Since i done that i dont spend money on equipment anymore, i spend money on buying music


Greetings

Darko

[madmac]

QUOTE=mjb]lastexit, the easy thing for you is to go into a dealer and ask for an amp A/B test between say a low and high end amp from any manufacturer - if YOU don't hear a difference, then I'm envious because now you can happily s[ave your money in the knowledge that spending more wont achieve anything.

Amplifiers are spec'ed using sine waves, but music has a very complex waveform. One cannot compare the two. At any instant in time, music contains a plethora of fundamentals and an infinite number of harmonics, reaching far out in the spectrum, beyond even the audible portion. But time is always moving, and obviously so is this waveform. Acoustic performance is judged by the ability to deal with and accurately reproduce such complex waveforms. Not how well one can reproduce a solitary sinewave at a specified frequency.

Many HTG forum members spend years, and their hard earned cash, tweaking every last bit of performance out of their systems with great enthusiasm and glee. That is the purpose and satisfaction of the hobby. You're in the wrong place to suggest that this is all in vain.

The difference is NOT physiological due solely to the blinding shiny new face plate, or a reflection of financial outlay, its real. Otherwise the spectrum of price and performance of equipment on offer today simply wouldn't be available.[/QUOTE]

Well said mjb :T

[scanido]

lastexit, the easy thing for you is to go into a dealer and ask for an amp A/B test between say a low and high end amp from any manufacturer - if YOU don't hear a difference, then I'm envious because now you can happily save your money in the knowledge that spending more wont achieve anything.

Amplifiers are spec'ed using sine waves, but music has a very complex waveform. One cannot compare the two. At any instant in time, music contains a plethora of fundamentals and an infinite number of harmonics, reaching far out in the spectrum, beyond even the audible portion. But time is always moving, and obviously so is this waveform. Acoustic performance is judged by the ability to deal with and accurately reproduce such complex waveforms. Not how well one can reproduce a solitary sinewave at a specified frequency.

Many HTG forum members spend years, and their hard earned cash, tweaking every last bit of performance out of their systems with great enthusiasm and glee. That is the purpose and satisfaction of the hobby. You're in the wrong place to suggest that this is all in vain.

The difference is NOT physiological due solely to the blinding shiny new face plate, or a reflection of financial outlay, its real. Otherwise the spectrum of price and performance of equipment on offer today simply wouldn't be available.

Well said.