Can I use a HDMI AV as a pre-amp to the 1098?

[Poki]

There is no HDMI to 7-channel analog audio "breakout" box.

I don't want to "junk" my 1098 but I need a HDMI Pre-Amp so will this configuration work?

PS3 -> AV HDMI (say a Denon or Onkyo) In -> 7-channel Pre-out -> 1098 7-channel audio in (currently used by a DVD universial player) -> 1098 (pre-out) -> 1092+1091+1075

In order words, can I use the newer Denon/Onkyo 1.3 HDMI AV as a 7-channel audio "breakout" box?

[PewterTA]

Yep, you certainly can.

[Poki]

Can't get the HDMI AV to work as a pre-amp to the 1098

I know this is NOT an Onkyo forum but I may get lucky if some of you might have already tried this configuration. I know in theory this should work so may be I am doing something incorrectly.

Current config:

PS3+Oppo via HDMI to Onkyo 805 + 802D

By itself, the audio works over the Onkyo HDMI connections.

But when I do this:

Onkyo 805 preamp out to Rotel 1098 multi-input then out to the Rotel 1091+1092+1075.

I have no PS3 or Oppo sound coming out of the Rotel

I did a test tone from the Onkyo thru' the 1098 and I am getting test tones out ((other than subwoofer) from the Rotels so I know this should not be a cable issues.

Is it possible that somehow the Rotel didn't know the Onkyo preamp output?? I don't have any test gear (other than the sound meter) that can measure the Onkyo preamp level.

Can someone shred some light on what I am doing wrong?? Thank you very much in advance.

BTW, the sound coming out of the Onkyo 805 is good but the sound is 2D and flat comparing to my massive Rotel set up. Of course, the Onkyo cost factor is 1/15 to my Rotel set up so it is not fair to compare.

[PewterTA]

Well all you should "really" have to do is set the Rotel to the Multi-Ch input. Then it will just by-pass the sound to the amps.

What you could do is try connecting the L/R channels from the Onkyo Multi-ch. output to one of the analog inputs on the 1098 (ie CD or Tuner) and see if you get sound. If you don't, then you know the Onkyo isn't outputting the sound. Of course make sure you change the Rotel to the correct input.

But other than that, everything sounds like you have it hooked up correctly!

-Dan

[Poki]

Thank for the the quick rescue, Dan. I didn't indicate clearly that I am using the multi-ch input via the "AUX" key on the remote. I will try your suggestion and connect the Onkyo L/R out to the Rotel Tuner input and see if I hear any sounds. If not, I have to call Onkyo.

Wouldn't that be nice if Rotel will offer a HDMI audio upgrade for those loyal 1098 customers?? I may sound prejudice but that (silver) Onkyo 805 (amber display) just does not match with my Rotel gears on my, huh, rack.

[VikingP]

Hi,

It would seem that running your Onkyo 7-channel outputs to your RSP-1098 would defeat the purpose of the 1098, since you are using the Onkyo's D/A conversion and analog output stage, and that is where the quality difference comes with regards to the Onkyo vs the Rotel. Then you would also be running the Onkyo outputs through another analog stage (the Rotel's) without any benefit.
If you want to use the Onkyo for the PS3, and the RSP-1098 for multi-channel audio, stereo, and other sources, I would suggest looking into a 7.1 audio switch, something like the Zektor MAS7.1, but without the HDMI switching. You would run the Onkyo's preamp outputs in one 7.1 input, and the 1098's preamp outputs in another, and the switch output to your amps.

Just my 2 cents. Hope it helps.

Paul

[Poki]

Instead of hooking up the Onkyo L/R pre-amp outs to anther set of 1098 analog inputs as planned, I connected the L/R to 1075. The sound worked so the Onkyo is functioning. I then reconnected them to the Rotel Multi-Input, no sound again.

I changed the volume setting on the 1098 from the set up menu using the remote (which I couldn't see the volume level btw). Lord and behold, the multi-channel sound came alive! But when I looked at the 1098 volume setting, it was set at 99! Just for reference, my normal listening level is from 65 to 70. I don't think I have pushed the amps to anything higher than 80 as my ears would hurt. :-)

So I turned down the volume back to the "normal" level and adjusted the Onkyo. If I turned up the Onkyo volume level all the way up from -67.5 db to 0 db, then I could hear the multichannel sound but they were still low.

That's not good. So now I have to see how I can increase the pre-amp level of the Onkyo or increase the Rotel multi-input level. Just for reference, I also have a Denon 3805 AV and it does not behave the same as the Onkyo. Prior to using the Onkyo, I connected the Oppo to the Rotel multi-channel inputs which worked greatly.

Any ideas on how to up the multi-channel level higher on the Rotel?? I don't recall seeing this option.

As the response to the second post, I am at a dead end because the PS3 does not have analog multi-channel out so using a 7.1 audio switch (which I considered before buying the Onkyo) does not work as I need a HDMI audio switch.

(HDMI video is a no brainer.)

From an audio quality point of view, I connected the Oppo L/R analog connections to the 1098 CD input so I am not "polluting" the CD sound by the Onkyo. Although the Oppo is connected to the Onkyo via the HDMI, I also have a direct coax digital out to the 1098 so again I am fine. I will admit my DVD-A/SACD quality WILL suffer. But the strange thing is I rather listen to 2-ch SACD/DVD-A than 5-ch nowadays. (My friend teased me that I should have just spent the B&W money and brought a pair of Watt Puppy which I actually prefer over my B&Ws but my wife thinks the WP look like a garbage can. Enough said about that. For those die hard B&W fans, you must listen to the Wilson Audio and then draw your own conclusion.)

The pollution comes from anything that requires HDMI audio such as the PS3 and a soon to be purchased HD-A3x. (I am using the XBOX 360 HDDVD which max'ed out at 1.5mbps DTS.) That was the decision behind in buying the Onkyo 805.

But until I can adjust the preamp level higher, I am still SOL as if I or my son switches gear and accidentally left the 1098 at output level of 99, the sudden surge will likely damage my 802D+HTM2D+805S.

That will be very very painful.

[Poki]

It pays to read the manual before taking the lazy way but I digress.

Apparently there is something called IntelliVolume that I can adjust the source input level. Once my son finishes playing his XBox games, I will try and see if that will solve my problem.

Thx again for all your guidance.

[Poki]

Paul, I had to re-read your post once more as I didn't read it carefully the first time. Yes, your approach is better as your proposal will indeed limit the Onkyo "pollution".

[Poki]

Just wanted to post an update: once I changed the IntelliVolume to +12db, everything works.

I haven't done a exhaustive test but a quick audition of the multi-channel uncompressed PCM and Dolby HD are very impressive. The improved bass and dynamic ranges are very noticeable.