RSP-1098 Arrives!

[whmacs]

Hi All,
Well, three weeks after ordering my RSP-1098, my dealer came out to my home yesterday and installed the unit. My first pleasant surprise actually occurred before I even heard a sound from my RSP-1098. On Monday my dealer rang me to confirm the installation time. He also told me that between ordering my RSP-1098 and now the recommended retail price had dropped by $1000! $4995 down to $3995(go the Aussie dollar!) So he reduced the price of the RSP-1098 by another $1000 on top of his already discounted price to me!

My trusty Onkyo 787 was removed and the RSP-1098 put in its place and connected via new interconnects to my existing RMB-1075 and RB-1070 Rotel power amps (which the Onkyo was previously connected to). After calibration I watched a couple of movies and there is a clear sound improvement over the Onkyo. Not being very impartial I handed the remote over to my two sons aged 8 & 9 and let them be the judge. They watched the ‘Mummy Returns’ and both agreed that the new Rotel sounded much better than the Onkyo. That’s a relief as they are tough judges!

Ok, so by now I’m somewhat impressed, but not raving. That all changed when I put on my first music DVD, James Taylor ‘Live at Beacon theatre’. Wow! All of a sudden my Jamo THX speakers actually sound musical! You would never put the words Onkyo and music in the same sentence. With the Onkyo the notes were there but they just didn’t sound musical. The RSP-1098 has made a huge difference in this regard.

Some initial questions if people don’t mind:
The RSP-1098 seems a little bass shy compared to the Onkyo. I’ve read on this forum that there was some issues with the sub woofer test tones. Should I be calibrating the speakers at 75db and the sub to 85db?

The firmware on the unit is v1.11. If I upgrade it to v1.1.6 will I lose all the setup information such as speaker distances etc…?

Is there a way to keep the TFT screen on showing the System Status information instead of it turning off after 5 seconds or so?

My back speakers seem a bit quite. I was wondering what level calibration people are using for sides and backs assuming a 0db level on the left main speaker and what volume people normally listen to the RSP-1098 for DVD movies?

Thanks,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[Azeke]

Congratulations Stephen, I'm sure you will be even happier after the initial break-in period.

Just a thought, make sure if you haven't already, read the manual thoroughly, due to the pleathera of tweaking options, it contains a wealth of information.

Now quickly on to your questions.

1) Yes, calibrate the subwoofer at 85db if you are utilizing the 1098 test tones.

2) Yes, you should retain your settings with the firmware upgrade. You must ensure that you follow the upgrade instructions to the letter and use the proper OS (i.e., Win2k, WinXP). After configuring Hyperterminal (prep), the upgrade should take approximately 5 minutes.

3) I'm not sure if I understand this question, but I give it a shot. You can access the Input menu and observe system setting changes on the fly.

4) You must also calculate your delays correctly (accessible thru the menu). Also the source material is a major factor.

I'm certain other 1098 owners will provide you further guidance.

Just my quick thoughts. Hope this helps.

Enjoy ,

Azeke

[gostan]

Stephen:

Congratulations on your new 1098. Mine is a week old tomorrow and is still breaking in, just like a new leather coat. I still have to re-calibrate my system with a sound meter, but I have calibrated the subwoofer about 10db louder with the internal test tones. My 1098 came with the latest software.

I viewed Terminator 3 on Sunday and I could not believe the sound, especially the effects coming from my rear CDM1's. Stereo listening utilizing the analog bypass is quickly becoming my overall favorite as I am listening to a lot of older music and hearing instruments and vocals from my CDM7's which make the discs sound brand new.

Enjoy!! You will be more surprised as to the musicality of the 1098 every day.

Stan

[whmacs]

Hi Azeke,
Thanks for the answers. With regard to the levels, calibrating the back speakers to 75db leads to a -5db setting on the back speaker levels from my seating position. I'll have a play around with the levels until I get something I'm happy with.

Cheers,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[Azeke]

Stephen,

For the most part, once you have calibrated your speakers (unless you move them or perhaps after the initial break-in period), you don't want to adjust the speaker levels, you actually just want to adjust the delays from your optimal seating position, which is a separate menu option.

I have been tweaking off and on for about 6 months now (with kids it's a little more difficult to dedicate the time), but I actually enjoy it. I seem to find some other setting(s)/tweak that makes my system sound better. Don't become overwhelmed, take the time to really enjoy what you have.

Regards,

Azeke

[whmacs]

Hi Stan,
Thanks for the feedback. It is much appreciated.

cheers,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[sramsay]

Stephen,

Congrats on another Aussie getting the RSP-1098. It is one awesome processor. I've had mine for a little over two months and I am still amazed when I put in a CD or DVD that I haven't heard for a while.

If you want to keep the System Status information up you just have to press the menu button once without pushing enter. I am running v1.1.6 so I'm not sure whether the behaviour is different with v1.11 or not.

Looks like I might have to complain to my dealer/importer though since I only bought mine 2 months ago and probably paid about $1000 dollars more than you . It's all in the timing. Don't think it'll achieve much though.

FWIW my rear speakers ended up being +4db for the left and +3db for the right. I have dipoles that don't fire into the room at all though.

Anyway Stephen enjoy the new toy.

Cheers
Scott.

[Aussie Geoff]

Stephen,

Glad to see you like your RSP-1098 as much as we do and congratulations on the extra discount - your dealer is worth standing by (as you head down the upgrade path....) I remember your original "would it be good on music" post and being soooo confident saying YES having heard your model Onkyo and Jamo speakers.

Most of your questions seem to be answered. Certainly I would expect if you recalibrated with the test tones at 75 dB for everything but the sub which as at 85 db you would get ample bass.

In terms of the rears - most people find the detail definition from the rear channels one of the biggest improvements / changes with the RSP-1098 (other than the music ) - it can be almost overwhelming on some material until you get used to the change. So I suspect that either the calibration for volume is wrong OR (as has been suggested) the distance is wrong. Given the quality of the sound from the RSP-1098 getting the relative distances right for all your speakers makes a real difference to the perceived sound volume and cohesiveness of the 3D sound stage. I measured and did an average of the left and right to really get it accurate.

A couple of other random thoughts:

• If you are using Dolby Pro-Logic I find the difference between DPL II Cinema and Music quite significant. DPL II Cinema on many Australian TV / Satellite etc sources (especially digital) is almost unbelievable sound quality but if the same source is set to DPL II Music accidentally I get some programs with weird rear channel effects and missing bass. Not likely but worth a thought. (Countering that – If you haven’t got a digital TV receiver – I highly recommend one for both picture and sound like a DVD off your TV signal)
• If your unit was a store demo etc (possible with the older software) it is just possible that some store tweaker has set different bass levels for one of the modes (stereo, DTS, DPL, Music etc) You can do this in the subwoofer settings and you would never know based on the main level settings. Have a look at this just in case. They should all me set to 0 db unless you are happy with the unit and want to make subtle changes (a little more or less bass for different sound types if you wanted to (say) run 3 db “hot’ for DD)
• I'd also recommend the upgrade to 1.1.6 - It makes an audible difference on many HT tracks from the original software.

Other than that, keep tweaking and listening - remember if your RSP-1098 was new out of the box it will gets even better with a week or two's listening - sweetens up and smooths out

Geoff Costello

[whmacs]

Hi Scott, Geoff & Azeke,
Thanks for all the tips guys its greatly appreciated. I was having another play around this morning with the sound meter (this was a bit hard as I had three kids running around the house making noise) and adjusted the levels a bit. From the meter I had the back rear speakers set to -5 db and the sides set to +1 db. I thought, hmmm, those values seem a bit low so I bumped up the rears to +3db and the sides to +4db, then put on some 7channel stereo music. The back and side speakers downed out the fronts and centre! So there does seem to be quite a bit of information coming through the surrounds Needless to say I now believe the sound meter!

One last question if you don't mind. In the advanced speaker setup if Dolby, DTS, stereo etc are all set to master, I assume that means that the advanced individual speaker cross overs are turned off (even though the Advanced display says front 100Hz) and it is using the 80Hz cross-over I set in the Subwoofer setup menu? The manual didn't seem clear on how to disable the advanced speaker crossover setup. I have all my speakers set to small.

This weekend I'll attempt to upgrade the software to v1.16. Once again thanks for all the help guys.


cheers,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[Aussie Geoff]

Stephen,

In the advanced speaker setup if Dolby, DTS, stereo etc are all set to master, I assume that means that the advanced individual speaker cross overs are turned off (even though the Advanced display says front 100Hz) and it is using the 80Hz cross-over I set in the Subwoofer setup menu? The manual didn't seem clear on how to disable the advanced speaker crossover setup. I have all my speakers set to small.

I am a little confused by your question, but let me try. I should preface my answer by saying this is relevant to firmware 1.1.16 and I started with 1.1.12 so I can’t speak for your version of the firmware.

The ADVANCED Set-up allows you to individually overrider the speaker type (LARGE or SMALL) and the bass redirect crossover to the Subwoofer or LARGE speakers for each type of speaker: FRONT, CENTER, SURROUND and SURROUND BACK. You select the speaker type by using the remote UP and DOWN keys to highlight the speaker type (top of the screen) and then the LEFT and RIGHT keys to cycle through the different speakers. In your case, with a full THX speaker set-up you don’t want any advanced settings – since the speakers are optimised (deigned for) all SMALL with a fixed 80 Hz cross-over. Indeed many THX subs have a low pass filter set at 80 Hz so you run the risk of loosing some Bass with a 100 Hz setting.

As far as I know you don’t “turn off” the ADVANCED setting – you change the settings for every speaker and sound type (Dolby, DTS etc) back to the default (SMALL and 80Hz) The default TYPE comes from the SPEAKER menu and the default SUB Crossover comes from the SUBWOOFER SETUP menu.

I hope this all makes sense....

Bottom Line for your THX set-up:

• SPEAKER SETUP – Everything you have set to SMALL
• SUBWOOFER – 80 Hz
• ADVANCED SPEAKER – Crossover 80 Hz and every SPEAKER TYPE (Front, Center etc) set to SMALL

Enjoy!

Geoff Costello

[whmacs]

Hi Geoff,
Once again thanks for the detailed explaination. Maybe its a function of v1.1.1, but when you go into the advanced speaker setup the screen looks similar to:
Speaker: Front
Cross over: 100Hz
Dolby: Master
DTS: Master
Stereo: Master
etc...

Regardless of this, your explaination makes perfect sense. I've now set all the crossover for all speakers to 80Hz as you describe. When I upgrade to v1.1.6 I'll see if this screen looks different.

As we are speaking of THX speakers and I hope this isn't too off topic, but it will help with some confusion I have calibrating the Jamo 15" THX Ultra sub I have. I've set the sub crossover to 80Hz (for THX) in the RSP-1098. On my sub I have two inputs 1) is a THX line input this disables the cross over control on the sub(basically fixing it at 80Hz) 2) a normal line input. This allows me to adjust the cross over between 0 - 150Hz via the sub's crossover knob. Now where my confussion lies is that if I plug the sub lead into the THX line input the sub seems to be playing the test tone at 80Hz and below (as it should and disables the sub's crossover knob). If I plug the sub lead into the 'normal' line input I can adjust the cross over knob on the sub (which is normal). My confusion lies using the normal line input (not the THX input) in the fact that as I turn the sub crossover knob past 80Hz through 100Hz, 120Hz etc the sub gets louder (I'm not touching the sub volume control only the cross over knob). I would of through if I set the cross over on the RSP-1098 to 80Hz that the sound level on the sub (via the test tones) should increase as I turn the sub crossover knob until I get to 80Hz, then stay the same past 80Hz as the RSP-1098 cuts the test tone at 80Hz and below before it is sent to the sub?

And speaking of calibrating the sub using the test tones is it best to leave the sub speaker adjustment level at 0db on the RSP-1098 and use the sub's volume control to get a 75db (or 85db) reading on an SPL meter?

Thanks for all the assistance, while the store did calibrate it, the sub output still doesn't sound quite right (a bit subdued compared to when it was plugged into my Onkyo and I'm a complusive tweaker

cheers,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[Aussie Geoff]

Stephen,

I’ll give you a short answer now that’s probably right and do some more research on your specific Jamo Sub tonight to be sure.

Net is – IF the THX input on your sub has a fixed 80 Hz crossover you don’t want to use it as the 80 Hz crossover filter at whatever slope it is 12 dB or 24 dB (I forget which THX uses) will add to the filter on 80 Hz that the RSP-1098 is doing on a balanced way on the sub and the speakers, so you will loose some mid bass in the 80-150 Hz range (not good) – i.e. you will get twice as much attenuation on the mid bass as you should. These THX inputs are usually designed for a raw signal (i.e. all frequencies) and do the THX filtering for you. You would then use a line out on the sub into your amp for the speakers etc.

Instead either:

• Use the crossover input on the sub and set it to 150 (thus taking the overlapped filter on the sub largely out of issue since it kicks in well after the Rotel’s filters have cut the bass progressively using the correct slop. OR
• If the Sub has an LFE input that bypasses all controls (most high-end one Subs do these days) use that as your first choice (you’ll get perfect bass)

Hope this makes sense!

Geoff

[Aussie Geoff]

Stephen,

After looking at what I presume is the manual for your Jamo D6 Sub HERE I am a little confused since the manual doesn't quite match your explanation. The manual shows:[*]A Phase Control Knob (normally start this a 0 degrees)[*]A Cutover frequency Knob (going from 40 Hz to 200 Hz (marked at THX)[*]A left and right stereo input and output

Under this set-up (as recommended in the manual once you get the gist of it) - you need to set the Cutover Frequency to the THX or 200 Hz setting (far right) and your problem will go away

Ulimately though its the same problem (competing crossover frequency slopes between the Sub and the RSP-1098 and the same solution - move the Sub's crossover frequency so high that the problem goes away

Geoff

[Aussie Geoff]

Stephen,

All this info above will help your "subdued bass"

Two more thoughts that MAY help as well

When you calibrated the sub at 85 dB with the test tones I want to make sure that what you did was set the volume control on the RSP-1098 so that the fronts were at 75 dB on the test tone and then without touching the volume control, switch to the sub test tone and calibrate the sub level (using the sub's own volume control) to 85 db. IE Test tones generate 75 dB for speakers and 85 dB for sub on the same volume level on the RSP-1098.

Also in terms of bass quality - if you still only have the RCA cable that came with the Jamo sub – throw it away and go straight to your dealer and do a "deal" on a quality dedicated sub-woofer cable - they make ALL the difference to the tightness and depth of the bass for almost every sub. (Lex also sells them at http://www.catcables.com)



Geoff Costello

[whmacs]

Hi Geoff,
Well, thanks to all your help and advice, I think everything is now sorted. After a bit more tweaking as per your instructions I watched a few of my favourite scenes from 'Attack of the Clones' with the family. The first was the speeder chase through the city and the arena scene. I had the RSP-1098 set to Dolby EX. Wow! isn't really a technical term but I can now offically say that the RSP-1098 is far superior to the Onkyo! The clarity and placement of the sound is outstanding. There was plenty of base (in fact my wife throught that there was a bit to much base, I'll knock it down a little). And as far as rear effects go it was stunning, especially from the two back speakers. With the Onkyo, hardly any sound at all came out of them, now they positively sing! The RSP-1098 now produces a complete sound envelope from your seating position that immerses you in the movie. Did I mention that music doesn't sound too shabby either The overall sound improvement is truely outstanding. Once again Geoff, thanks for all the help.

Oh, on the sub, it is a Jamo SW-3015 THX Ultra certificated, mine is three years old. As far as controls go, I have a dedicated THX input, left and right line inputs, a movie / music switch, phase knob, volume knob and cross over knob (0-150hz).

Today's project will be to upgrade the firmware from 1.1.1 to 1.1.6.

cheers,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[whmacs]

Hi Geoff,
Just updated the firmware to 1.1.6. As I work in the IT industry, this was a straight forward exercise compared to calibrating the sub :? It might be my imagination, but the sound seems slightly improved (if that's possible) since the upgrade.

cheers,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[Aussie Geoff]

Stephen,

Glad it turned out well.

You may want to recalibrate you levels and then do a DEFAULT SAVE with the menus after you load the new firmware. Some people jumping from very early versions of the firmware have found this to be worthwhile after 1.1.6.

HT can be daunting (there is just not enough standardisation or explanation) but fun and - with great gear like the 1098 - the results make it all worthwhile.

PS - After your upgrade you may want to try some really great DTS music disks like Eagles "Hell Freezes over", Roy Orbison "Black and White Night" and Diana Krall "Live in Paris". They seriously ley you know just how good your system can sound on 7 channel music!

Geoff