Rotel RB1070 vs Rotel RB1090 review

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Joey_V
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2005
    • 436

    Rotel RB1070 vs Rotel RB1090 review

    I'm going to write a little bit about these 2 Rotel amps from my experience with both in my system at the same time.

    Setup:
    SqueezeBox3 -> Rotel RC1070 preamp -> Rotel RB1070/Rotel RB1090 -> Martin Logan Summits -> Joey's ears

    Build:
    The 1070 is svelte and rather small compared to the much larger 1090. The 1090 is not only taller, but also deeper in overall size compared to the 1070. The overall look and design is the same - chassis is of the same build quality.

    Prologue:
    When I first got my Martin Logan Summits, I ran it with the RB1070 amp. As much as the combo sounded good, I knew there was some work ahead of me with regards to moving up in amplification. The vocal image didnt have the focus that I wanted, nor did the instruments draw me to them as much as I'd like them to, not to mention that the stage was a little shallow in depth.

    When I got the opportunity to get the 1090, I jumped on the offer. A local audiophile had upgraded to the Classe CA400 and sold me his RB1090. When I picked up the 1090 from his place, I played it in A/B comparison with his Classe and to tell you the truth, I couldnt hear too big a difference.

    So, let's get to meat of this review.

    Sound:
    In my experience with the 2 amps, there were 4 aspects of the sonic reproduction that were substantially altered.

    1. Stage - With the 1090, I felt that the singer was pulled forward a bit more. Now, the singer was more consistently infront of the speaker baffle plane, whereas with the 1070, I felt that the singer fell back a little bit behind the speaker baffle plane and was "smudged" with the rest of the soundstage. The 1090, by moving the singer forward, freed up the remainder of the soundstage and allowed for better examination of the rest of the stage - thereby improving perceivable soundstage depth!

    2. Transients and Dynamics - Transients were improved with the 1090. I could tell with my A/B comparisons, that the 1090 had more power/current running through the electrostats and was better able to respond to various current draws as was evident during several acoustic guitar tracks. The 1090 never sounded compressed while the 1070 seemed to have a bit of a ceiling whereby the "plucks" seemed to prematurely die out.

    3. Vocal Image/Focus - The 1090 was able to remove quite a bit of the "FUZZ" around a singer's voice relative to the 1070. This was very clear when playing a song that consisted mostly of vocals - such as James Blunt's "Goodbye My Lover" track. With the 1070, there was a lot of unneccessary glare and grit around the vocalist's image, while the 1090 was able to remove quite a bit of the "FUZZ" and left me with a cleaner vocal image and an enhanced vocal focus, if you will. Definitely sounded a lot more realistic in my ears.

    4. Bass - Although my Summits are powered with 4 ICE-Power 200 watt amps into each of the FOUR 10" woofers, I felt that the 1090 had a very slight improvement in the bass regions. Perhaps this was because the 1090 improved panel response in the upper bass regions, I dont know. But this improvement was very minor, although in conventional, non-powered speakers, I am sure the 1090 would flex its muscle over the 1070 when it comes to moving those woofers.

    Where do we go from here?
    Well, I just upgraded to the Plinius SA102 125w Pure Class A amplifier and I will tell you that the jump from the 1090 to the Plinius is larger than the jump from the 1070 to the 1090! Interesting, huh? I will tell you this, although the 1090 is a very very very good amp at the $2K mark, things still get better (and still worth the extra money) at the $5-6K mark. Beyond this, I have no in-home experience... sorry. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that as good as the 1090 sounds, there's still better and it's not for that much more. The beauty about this realization is that you dont have to spend $10K to hear an audible difference over the $2K 1090, you only have to spend a few $K more and the difference that awaits you is still pretty astonishing.

    I guess to put it in perspective... I was worried that the 1090 was hitting the 90% mark of audio reproduction, because from what I heard, I still wanted more. However, with the recent upgrade to the Plinius, I would put the 1090 at about 50% of audio reproduction potential (at the amplification level)... so there's some room to improve on here! And the beauty is, you dont have to mortgage your house to get to that next level if you so desire.

    Conclusion:
    IMO, the 1090 is as good as Rotel gets, as I've heard the 1091 and 1092 amps side/side. There is a difference in sonic reproduction if you focus on the 4 areas I listed above when you audition. IMO, once you hear the difference, you'll want to jump to the 1090... the 1070 wont give you the same experience, nor will it satisfy you IF you've heard what the 1090 can do in your particular audio system. There is no question that even under the same volume setting, the 1090 is exactly HOW Rotel wanted sound to be reproduced (at the amplification level) and there is no question that it is worth the $2K it retailed for, given that the 1070 retails for $700.

    I liked the 1090 a lot, and if it wasnt for a great opportunity that opened itself to me to acquire a Plinius, I'd be in the 1090 camp indefinitely.

    :T
    Analog: VPI Scoutmaster w/ Steel Delrin clamp + Dynavector 20XH cart
    Digital: SB3 + PS Audio Digital Link III DAC
    System: Cary Audio SLP-98P Tube Preamplifier w/ Sylvanias -> Plinius SA102 Class A amplifier -> Martin Logan SUMMITS/Strata Minis -> 8O (me)
  • gianni
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2002
    • 524

    #2
    Thanks Joey_V. Nice review and commentary.

    Comment

    • Clepto
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2006
      • 292

      #3
      Just wanted to point out that the speakers being driven do play a huge factor in the amplification requirements... If you're running something like B&W 602's, the upgrade in amplification will likely do very little for you.

      Comment

      • apodaca
        Member
        • Jun 2006
        • 63

        #4
        One thing to keep in mind is that your situation is unique. Electrostatic speakers are a difficult load and as such will benefit from good amplification. So your 50% estimate is relative. For example in my situation with my speakers an RB 1070 is at the 90% level and I am very satisfied with it.

        Comment

        • Joey_V
          Senior Member
          • Jul 2005
          • 436

          #5
          Originally posted by apodaca
          One thing to keep in mind is that your situation is unique. Electrostatic speakers are a difficult load and as such will benefit from good amplification. So your 50% estimate is relative. For example in my situation with my speakers an RB 1070 is at the 90% level and I am very satisfied with it.
          Possibly... it's all relative. If you're running $50 speakers, there really is no point in going beyond a receiver for example. You make a good point, but the review is what I thought in MY system so take it for what it is.

          Joey
          Analog: VPI Scoutmaster w/ Steel Delrin clamp + Dynavector 20XH cart
          Digital: SB3 + PS Audio Digital Link III DAC
          System: Cary Audio SLP-98P Tube Preamplifier w/ Sylvanias -> Plinius SA102 Class A amplifier -> Martin Logan SUMMITS/Strata Minis -> 8O (me)

          Comment

          • miner
            Senior Member
            • Mar 2005
            • 900

            #6
            What are you going to do with your 1090 Joey? Great review - thanks for sharing.

            Comment

            • Nick M
              Ultra Senior Member
              • Nov 2004
              • 5959

              #7
              Great review. Too bad you didn't have a RB-1080 to throw in the mix as well!
              ~Nick

              Comment

              • NTTY
                Junior Member
                • Oct 2006
                • 4

                #8
                Hi Joey_V,

                Very good review, and thank you for sharing it!

                Comment

                • Joey_V
                  Senior Member
                  • Jul 2005
                  • 436

                  #9
                  Originally posted by miner
                  What are you going to do with your 1090 Joey? Great review - thanks for sharing.
                  The 1090 is sitting here... on the floor. I cant part with it as I like it too much. It's only 8 months old and in the silver flavor. I'll probably put it in on eBay sometime next week.

                  *sigh*

                  :cry:
                  Analog: VPI Scoutmaster w/ Steel Delrin clamp + Dynavector 20XH cart
                  Digital: SB3 + PS Audio Digital Link III DAC
                  System: Cary Audio SLP-98P Tube Preamplifier w/ Sylvanias -> Plinius SA102 Class A amplifier -> Martin Logan SUMMITS/Strata Minis -> 8O (me)

                  Comment

                  • Joey_V
                    Senior Member
                    • Jul 2005
                    • 436

                    #10
                    Here are some pics... this is in my bedroom.
                    Rotel RB1090 vs Plinius SA102....



                    "Dethroned!!!! Mwahahahahaha," brags the Plinius.


                    Sick sick setup! I dont keep my pre on top, it's only for the pic. Otherwise, in Class A bias, the Rotel pre might become "cooked".
                    Analog: VPI Scoutmaster w/ Steel Delrin clamp + Dynavector 20XH cart
                    Digital: SB3 + PS Audio Digital Link III DAC
                    System: Cary Audio SLP-98P Tube Preamplifier w/ Sylvanias -> Plinius SA102 Class A amplifier -> Martin Logan SUMMITS/Strata Minis -> 8O (me)

                    Comment

                    • NTTY
                      Junior Member
                      • Oct 2006
                      • 4

                      #11
                      Joey,

                      What do you think of the RC-1090?
                      I saw some reviewers claiming that the RC-1070 was the limitation in the pair RC-1070/RB-1080. What is your opinion?

                      Thank you!

                      Comment

                      • Joey_V
                        Senior Member
                        • Jul 2005
                        • 436

                        #12
                        RC1090 is slightly better than the 1070, BUT a tube preamp from Cary/BAT/ARC/Rogue/Hovland is faaaar superior to any SS pre I have tried and other (ML owners) have tried, IMO. I dont know what it is as I have been a stern believer in pure SS... but a Tube preamp + a SS amp is an awesome combination. Something about tubes just grabs the image and jolts it to make it even more rock solid than a SS pre can. Add to that a Class A amp, and you got magic.

                        My RC1070 is being replaced, hopefully, with the Hovland HP-100 Tube preamp ($5K).

                        Can't wait for the preamp....


                        Analog: VPI Scoutmaster w/ Steel Delrin clamp + Dynavector 20XH cart
                        Digital: SB3 + PS Audio Digital Link III DAC
                        System: Cary Audio SLP-98P Tube Preamplifier w/ Sylvanias -> Plinius SA102 Class A amplifier -> Martin Logan SUMMITS/Strata Minis -> 8O (me)

                        Comment

                        • apodaca
                          Member
                          • Jun 2006
                          • 63

                          #13
                          Hey cool set up. I like the 'amp stand' as well - you have excellent priorities. I am curious as to how difficult the Martin Logans were to position since I have heard they require a great dealt of time to be properly set up etc. Did you find this to be the case or more to the point did you find the sound/image to depend heavily on their position in the room?

                          Comment

                          • Boombox
                            Senior Member
                            • Oct 2005
                            • 203

                            #14
                            Joey,

                            Great review and thanks for listing you objective views....

                            There are several points I can agree with you concerning the 1070 amp. I have just recently upgraded to the Dynaudio Focus 140 and at least a very decent cd player....(having gone from $800, 1m tall, floorstanders to $2k bookshelf has highlighted a few short-comings in the amplification stage)

                            I agree with you on these points:


                            Originally posted by Joey_V
                            ....As much as the combo sounded good, I knew there was some work ahead of me with regards to moving up in amplification. The vocal image didnt have the focus that I wanted, nor did the instruments draw me to them as much as I'd like them to, not to mention that the stage was a little shallow in depth....
                            1. Stage ...whereas with the 1070, I felt that the singer fell back a little bit behind the speaker baffle plane and was "smudged" with the rest of the soundstage....
                            2. Transients and Dynamics ....the 1070 seemed to have a bit of a ceiling whereby the "plucks" seemed to prematurely die out....

                            3. Vocal Image/Focus....With the 1070, there was a lot of unneccessary glare and grit around the vocalist's image....

                            :T
                            On these, I have the same experience as you......especially with vocal tracks where the singer is consistently behind the front speaker baffle. I do get solid imaging, but the depth is not as deep as I know it should be.....so even the stage sounds rather compressed......

                            Also with regards to the 1070 running out of steam, I have to agree as well....Have listened to my new set-up now for more than 2 weeks and i'm recycling through my cds, and its becoming obvious that the highs tend to loose volume/body when impedence drops.....the decay of strings, triangles, cymbals is too quick and though it is not "a problem", I am more confident that a pair of mono-blocks (e.g.: Shanling SP-80C or Jeff Rowland Model 201) or a ss class-a amp (Densen B-320) will do the trick....

                            Though I'm more in favor of the mono-blocks, the Densen is on the top of my list.....problem is, I'm not able to audition any of these options in my set-up and will most likely have to buy "blind".....
                            Regards :T,

                            Boom....a.k.a...."The Box"

                            Comment

                            • Joey_V
                              Senior Member
                              • Jul 2005
                              • 436

                              #15
                              Boombox,

                              I am glad you enjoyed the review, I tried to be as objective as possible and remove as much fluff as not necessary. You should start feeding your speakers a more hefty amp, and lets not forget about the preamp. Perhaps a tube pre can help tune the sound to be a bit more how we say.... au natural.

                              Joey
                              Analog: VPI Scoutmaster w/ Steel Delrin clamp + Dynavector 20XH cart
                              Digital: SB3 + PS Audio Digital Link III DAC
                              System: Cary Audio SLP-98P Tube Preamplifier w/ Sylvanias -> Plinius SA102 Class A amplifier -> Martin Logan SUMMITS/Strata Minis -> 8O (me)

                              Comment

                              • Boombox
                                Senior Member
                                • Oct 2005
                                • 203

                                #16
                                Joey,

                                I think your review was spot on. I've heard the Dynaudios though the mighty 200W Consonance integrated.....and there was depth a plenty.....

                                I've got the shanling CD-T80 and its a tube cd player which I run directly into the amp. However, I have the same opinion as you with regards to the tubes.....I myself am a die hard ss man, but after hearing the tubes (Prima Luna), they won me over, hence the tube cd-player......I really do however want to upgrade to the shanling CD-T100, which is a work of art....

                                I do want to skip the pre-amp if I can, as I'm trying to construct a very short path from cd disc to transducer....that said, I do agree that a tube pre-amp with an "all" powerfull ss amp (mono-blocks) will really pull the soundstage apart and preserve the excellent body and imaging...

                                Finally, as good/great/fantastic/etc as the Rotels are, they do just take you so far......
                                Regards :T,

                                Boom....a.k.a...."The Box"

                                Comment

                                • Joey_V
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Jul 2005
                                  • 436

                                  #17
                                  Boombox,

                                  Talking with you reminds you of me. It's like we have similar ears.
                                  Analog: VPI Scoutmaster w/ Steel Delrin clamp + Dynavector 20XH cart
                                  Digital: SB3 + PS Audio Digital Link III DAC
                                  System: Cary Audio SLP-98P Tube Preamplifier w/ Sylvanias -> Plinius SA102 Class A amplifier -> Martin Logan SUMMITS/Strata Minis -> 8O (me)

                                  Comment

                                  • DL86
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Sep 2005
                                    • 271

                                    #18
                                    Boombox,

                                    If you want an upgrade in performance that will out do 95% of the cd players on the market look into the modifications available for the CD-T80. If you want the looks go for the CD-T100 but don't expect it sound any better than the CD-T80 (my ears couldn't tell anyway). If you want the looks and top of the line performance have a look into the modifications for the CD-T100. I recently changed the internal opamps of my CD-T80 to two AD825's and one OPA627 and found this to be the best opamp upgrade, I tried using all three AD825's but it was way too bright with my set up, removed one AD825 added an OPA627 and loved it. A definate improvement in sonics over the standard OPA2604's.

                                    Comment

                                    • Boombox
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Oct 2005
                                      • 203

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by DL86
                                      Boombox,
                                      ......If you want the looks go for the CD-T100.....
                                      David, This will be the only reason why I want to upgrade ; the problem is that the price jump is HUGE.....out of my league at the moment... :roll:

                                      With regards to pimping out the CD-T80, now there is where I'm going next. Quite rightly, changing the opamps and tubes are in the pipeline, but at the moment, I want to take care of the amplification, then get a power conditioner, improve on my entry level Transparent cabling; like Joey, there's alot to be done first; Once all that's done, I'll start pimping out the CD player....

                                      I've pumped the volume on the CD-T80 almost to line-level levels, and the 1070 does an admiral job.....the most beautiful part of listening to my combination (Shanling > RB1070 > Dynaudio Focus 140), is that when I turn the volume up, the soundstage improves in depth and in width (slight increase in SPL, but that will be missing the point, it does not get louder, no ear fatigue, the stage becomes "more real"), but like Joey mentioned, the vocals start to grain and the highs loose their integrity...also, the singer does not "step forward", but the drummer's bass drum seems to go deeper into the background, which is my cue of improved depth.......the 1070 however cannot seem to hold the full signal and preserve the full frequency range it's recieving from the CD player....now for me, this is to be expected for a $1000 amp (here is South Africa).....therefore, for the price of the 1070, I think it does an outstanding job.....

                                      Joey, you make a good point, from what you wrote, I do think that we are looking for the same thing in our hi-fi; however not endlessly.....I guess we know exactly what sound we want and when that point is reached based on the equipment....I just get frustrated at times, because I'm staying in a small one-bedroom university flat, four AMDs running in the background doing calculations, four desks, a bloak's chair 8) and my hi-fi 8) ....there is no space to put everything...so I know that my sound will improve once I move into a larger space.....but in the meantime, I'm preparing for that by improving my hi-fi......

                                      With each improvement I make, I start to realize that for hi-fi, there is a good many options out there that will provide the hi-fi with synergy; not only amongst the electronics, but with your particular taste in what music you listen to and what parts of the frequency range you enjoy.

                                      I don't want to start a war, but this hobby is more satisfying and rewarding than golf.....
                                      Regards :T,

                                      Boom....a.k.a...."The Box"

                                      Comment

                                      • Briz vegas
                                        Super Senior Member
                                        • Mar 2005
                                        • 1199

                                        #20
                                        Boombox - I hear the T100 has been discontinued - you may need to grab one now or buy second hand later. Apparently its because the 100 uses the HDCD chip which is no more.

                                        Makes me wonder how long the Naim 5x will be about as it also has HDCD. Actually doesn't the Rotel cd player also have HDCD. Maybe these are difference chips ?????
                                        Mac 8gb SSD Audirvana ->Weiss INT202 firewire interface ->Naim DAC & XPS2 DR->Conrad Johnson CT5 & LP70S-> Vivid B1s. Nordost Valhalla cables & resonance management. (Still waiting for Paul Hynes PS:M)
                                        Siamese :evil: :twisted:

                                        Comment

                                        • Joey_V
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Jul 2005
                                          • 436

                                          #21
                                          Boombox,

                                          Though you're in Africa and I'm in Chicago, we are mirrors of each other. I, too, am working out of my bedroom with my system flanking my PC on either side. I used to have my system in the living room but I found that there was an echo there that I couldnt remedy and the system wasnt getting much use out there... so I moved the entire system back into my bedroom.

                                          I, too, am living on university property. With whatever trail you end up taking in your path towards greater hifi, good luck and godspeed.

                                          Your friend,
                                          Joey
                                          Analog: VPI Scoutmaster w/ Steel Delrin clamp + Dynavector 20XH cart
                                          Digital: SB3 + PS Audio Digital Link III DAC
                                          System: Cary Audio SLP-98P Tube Preamplifier w/ Sylvanias -> Plinius SA102 Class A amplifier -> Martin Logan SUMMITS/Strata Minis -> 8O (me)

                                          Comment

                                          • Boombox
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Oct 2005
                                            • 203

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by Briz vegas
                                            Boombox - I hear the T100 has been discontinued - you may need to grab one now or buy second hand later. Apparently its because the 100 uses the HDCD chip which is no more.

                                            Makes me wonder how long the Naim 5x will be about as it also has HDCD. Actually doesn't the Rotel cd player also have HDCD. Maybe these are difference chips ?????
                                            Well yeah...

                                            HDCD is Microsoft proprietry software and I guess people are booting the latter idea more than the former (this is very, very, very subjective and ultra speculative so don't get carried away here), particularly if there is some royalties associated with using the technology in any form...sad, but to be honest the upsampling/oversampling of cds reproduce better results than HDCD decoders in the latest cd player offerings...(I being very subjective here...)

                                            Rotel have HDCD decoders on the RCD1072 and the discontinued RCD02 and I guess on some HT processors, but they have dumped the HDCD decoder in the latest RCD06 offering, opting for oversampling rather. With regards to the Naim 5x............WHAT A PLAYER.........NAIM..... 8) .....WHAT A BRAND.....but this is Rotel......

                                            Yes, the CD-T100 is discontinued, but as I've mentioned, that buy will be purely on "art work" alone......man, is than one beautiful looking cd player....; that said, the SCD-T200 will most likely be the player I'll upgrade to.....mind you, both the SCD-T200 and the CD-T80 use the same Burr-Brown DAC....SACD, however, is dumped on the CD-T80, whereas the SCD-T200 has SACD as well......the CD-T80 is truely awesome for its price..........and if you follow DL86's recommendations, its clear that this is one solid buy..... :T

                                            Regards,

                                            Boom....a.k.a...."The Box"
                                            Regards :T,

                                            Boom....a.k.a...."The Box"

                                            Comment

                                            Working...
                                            Searching...Please wait.
                                            An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                                            Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                            An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                                            Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                            An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                                            There are no results that meet this criteria.
                                            Search Result for "|||"