v2.1.1 Bug with 7.1 Speaker Setup?

[whmacs]

Hi All,
I upgraded my RSP-1098 on Monday to v2.1.1. Last night I watched a movie (DD 5.1) and noticed I wasn’t getting any sound from by back two speakers (7.1 setup). The Status screen was saying DD5.1 + PLIIx C and all 8 speakers where active. Pressing the SUR+ button and selecting any 7.1 format ( DD + XS, DD+PLIIx C or PLIIx M) caused the back speakers to start working fine. Its seemed like the RSP-1098 was only working in 5.1 mode (even through the status screen said different) and manually pressing SUR+ activated the additional PLIIx or Rotel XS processing. I tried a few more DVD’s and the problem was quite reproducible. To reproduce:
1. Insert a DVD and select a chapter
2. The RSP-1098 will show DD + PLIIx C or DD + XS or DD + PLIIx M or DD EX depending on the last mode it was in. All speakers are highlighted as being in use.
I get DD 5.1 sound, but nothing out of the back speakers
3. Press SUR+ and select another mode to the one currently displayed on the Status screen i.e. if DD+PLIIx C is displayed select DD+PLIIx M or DD + XS and back speakers start working. This also happens if Rotel XS is displayed on the status screen, pressing SUR+ and DD+PLIIx C will start the back speakers working.

This only occured watching DVD's. My CD input is setup for 7 channel stereo. Putting on a CD and I automatically get sound out of all 8 speakers.

Could someone with a 7.1 system, RSP-1098 and V2.1.1 please give this a try to see if it’s just me or a bug in the v2.1.1 code? It’s not a huge problem as its easily solved by pressing the SUR+ button, just a little annoying.

Thanks,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[Andrew Pratt]

What happens if you tell it you only have a 6.1 setup...does it still only give you 5.1?

[whmacs]

Hi all,
I turned everything on this morning (we had a power outage yesterday) to try Andrew's idea. Before changing the speaker setup I dropped in a 5.1 DVD and everything worked as normal! The RSP-1098 reported DD + PLIIx C and sound was coming out of the back speakers without me having to press the SUR+ button.
Maybe it was temporary insanity on my part or maybe the RSP-1098 had lost the plot a bit and a power cycle fixed things up. At least now my 7.1 system seems back to normal after the upgrade.

cheers,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[whmacs]

Hi Guys,

Well my problem of not getting any sound out of the back two speakers unless I press the SUR+ is back again even though the RSP-1098 reports DD + PLIIx M on the status screen. This has only started happening since the upgrade to v2.1.1. Last night we watched two new release DVD's; Agent Cody Banks and Basic. In both cases I had to press the SUR+ button and toggle to a different surround mode to get the back speakers to start working. In my previous post I put on a Robbie Williams Music DVD and I automatically got sound out of the back two speakers so I thought the problem was solved, but now its back again. All disks where DD 5.1 so I'm not sure what's going on now. I'm going to report it to the Australian Distributor on Monday. It sounds very similar to what Sithlord is experiencing. See here. Could anyone else confirm?
Thanks,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[whmacs]

Hi All,
Ok, did some more testing this morning and I found the following:
DD 5.1 disk -> only 5.1 sound requires SUR+ to be pressed to manually get 7.1 sound.
DD 5.1 EX disk -> automatically selects EX and gives 7.1 sound.
DTS 5.1 disk -> automatically selects DTS + XS (I can also manually select DTS + PLIIx if required) and gives 7.1 sound.

So my problem seems to be limited to DD 5.1 disks only giving 5.1 sound and a manual press of the SUR+ button is required to kick in the two back speakers, all other formats automatically use all 7.1 channels.

cheers,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[Aussie Geoff]

Stephen,

I have found with the new upgrade the RSP- 1098 remembers some invisible complex list of the last setting for the sound type for the input and cascades this for different sound types according to some internal precedence hierarchy that makes sense to it but is not documented! So I have played a source of every type I can find on each of my inputs and set them to be DD +DPL IIx: Cinema for DD 5.1 etc, ditto for DD 2.0 sources (like TV) and DTS - this seems to work well in that I put them in and it defaults to whatever + IIx. For example I put three different sources through my DVD player – A CD, DVD with DD 5.1 and DVD with DTS to get the settings right.

I believe there is also an interaction happening with the default sound setting for the INPUT set in the menus (I haven't put the time it to check to see if I can replicate your problem by changing this) but I have made mine for DVDs, Digital TV etc to be DD + DPL IIx: Cinema. Importantly - Again there is a hidden remembered list happening here as far as I can figure out. You can change the type to Stereo and select (say) 7 channel and then change to DD and select DPL IIx Cinema. It will remember both and play any 2 channel non Dolby source as 7 channel while playing Dolby sources with IIx Cinema – which is pretty slick and convenient once you know – but confusing when you don’t. For example I have exactly this setting on my DVD player – so my son can drop a CD in and get the 7 channel he likes, and my wife can drop any DVD in and get 5.1 + IIx (except for DTS ES)

With these two types of settings done for every input (Default INPUTS set and then media played to find tune) I (so far) seem to always get the right setting defaulting for my sources and never have to press SUR+ ... However if my son / wife have changed the surround setting for a source (e.g. to DD + XS) then for that source, the next disk will remember the new setting if it is the same type of signal etc and I need to use SUR+ to fix.

Hope this all makes some type of sense. I suspect it may be worth a try - just in case your unit is remembering the wrong defaults from the INPUT setting and this is interacting with the memorised setting for the sound type.

Geoff

[whmacs]

Hi Geoff,
Thanks for all the information. I Fully understand what you are saying and I have done a similar thing. Taking Input 2 as an example its default format type is PLIIx + Cin. This is the input the DVD player uses. When I put in a DD 5.1 disk sure enough the format changes from PLIIx + Cin to DD + PLIIx C (exactly as it should) but no sound comes out of the back speakers. I then press SUR+ or mode and change the format to DD + PLIIx M (for example or to DD + XS or for that matter change it to PLIIx M then toggle it straight back to PLIIx C) and the back speakers start working.

Its almost like in the past there was only one 7.1 format (Rotel XS) and if you had back speakers it would always use that format ie DD + XS as it had no other choice. Now it has three choices XS, PLIIx + C & PLIIx + M, the trouble is it seems to have no default mode set for 7.1 channels. It just decodes in 5.1 until you tell it (by pressing the SUR+ button). Ignoring the mode it was in last time (i.e. DD + PLIIx C, even though it displays it on the status screen)

My theory is that DD EX goes straight into 7.1 mode (and gives me sound out of the back speakers automatically) because the RSP-1098 detects the EX bit and doesn't have to make a choice, it goes straight into DD EX mode regardless if the previous disk you had on was DD + PLIIx C.

So if you put a disk on without touching anything you get DD + PLIIx and sound coming out of your two back speakers (I'm assuming you have a 7.1 system)?

I'll contact International Dynamics on Monday and if I have no joy there, (Sithlord's comments haven't inspired confidence after his unit was returned) I'll try Rotel in Europe or the US.

I'm still thinking its a bug in the software as the upgrade went smoothly (after I realised I had to turn the RSP-1098 all the way on for the EPROM upgrade) and the unit is functioning perfectly including the new PLIIx code (once I press the SUR+ button). My unit came with v1.11 of the firmware so I assume that this is a fairly 'old' unit that has been sitting in International Dynamics warehouse for a few months. Maybe there are some issues with older units and the EPROM upgrade? I'm only guessing at this point.

cheers,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[Olaf]

Dear All,

I performed my upgrade about two weeks ago and THOUGHT I was spared all the problems reported in the various threads. However today I came home from work and foun my wife watching Finding Nemo (region 1) which is a DD+EX disc. To my horror there was no sound coming from the rear speakers and the 1098 display showed DD+PLIIx. ops:

Switching back and forth between the sound modes solved the rear speaker problem as mentioned by Stephen in the previous messages.

Before the upgrade the 1098 always selected the correct format DD+EX if there is an EX flag or DD+XS if there is not (similar for DTS). Whiledefault formats are suported for different sources, the unit should switch automtically for DVD sources based on the material available.

So here goes my story:

Step 1
- downloaded hyper terminal version as suggested in other threads
- de-installed virus scanning software
- killed all unneccesary applications running
- changed com port settings on system level to Rotel' standards

Step 2
- re-installed V2.1.1

Put a Star Wars Episode II disc (region 2) in and the display showed DD+EX but no sound came from the rear channels. Switching sound modes solved this problem, so no progress. :cry:

Step 3
- decreased buffer usage for com port on system level
- re-installed V2.1.1

Put the Star Wars Episode II disc (region 2) in and the display showed DD+XS (very strange) but still no sound came from the rear channels. Switching sound modes solved this problem, so no progress. (in fact appear to have lost EX flagging). :cry:

Step 4
- re-installed V1.1.6 (yes I really did that)

Put the Star Wars Episode II disc (region 2) in and the display showed DD+XS (very strange) but now I had sound from the rear channels. I then tried Finding Nemo (region 1) and the 1098 properly showed DD+EX and the rear channels worked. Thus there may be a problem with the EX flag on my Star Wars episode II disc (see more about this later).

Step 5
- re-applied EPROM patches (including necessary restarts after each file)

Put in Finding Nemo and the display showed DD+EX and I had sound from the rear channels (still using V1.1.6).

Step 6
- installed V2.1.1

Put in Finding Nemo and the display showed DD+EX but again there was no sound from the rear channels. Switching modes solved that problem.

Step 7
- re-installed 1.1.6

Everything now works fine. :LOL:

Lessons learned:
a. I believe that there is definitely a bug in V2.1.1 wth regards to rear channels on a 7.1 setup. :!:

b. On the Start Wars Episode II disc and EX not being selected I did some further testing.

- tried Star Wars Episode I (region 2), again no EX flag detected
- tried James Bond Die Another Day (region 1) and this one showed DD+EX

So in short either both Star Wars discs are not properly flagged, or I have a problem with regon 2 discs (both Star Wars) and EX flags. Region 1 discs (Finding Nemo and James Bond) are both detected as EX. :?:

For the time being (and after all the tests performe so far) I am going to stay with V1.1.6 until Rotel comes out with a new release or a detailed analysis.

Hope the above helps and woul be grateful if anyone can confirm whether there are flagging problems on the Star Wars region II discs.

Regards,
Olaf

[Aussie Geoff]

Olaf,

Very interesting. Thanks for all your detailed posting. The DVD Region and the EX flagging differences between different disks are quite strange - especially how they evolved for you with software reinstallations....

Being an Aussie (like whmacs) I'm in DVD region 4 and I've only checked a couple of EX disks (not yet Star Wars Episode II - so I'll try that tomorrow and see). I do know that EX flagging on many older region 4 disks wasn’t done requiring EX to be set manually in the processor (then they flagged them but didn’t say so on the label) – but I don’t know about region 2.

Also (as per my recent long post to whmacs) I have set up my RSP-1098 to default to DPL IIx Cinema even for DD EX disks as the experiments I did on things like Terminator 3 convinced me that DD IIx Cinema was better that DD EX on EX disks (much better rear channel positioning) - so I may not be seeing the effect if the EX bug even if I have it on some disks as I have to switch to EX using the SUR+ key and (of course) get 7.1 perfectly... I’ll experiment and see (and then go straight back to DD IIx Cinema and be very happy!)

Geoff

[whmacs]

Hi Olaf,
Thanks for the detailed problem analysis. I'm glad someone else can also confirm that there are 'issues' with v2.1.1. To further complicate things, I'm now starting to think (as you also say Olaf) that there are cetain disks that the problem manifests itself on. I've you look above, I mention that the Robbie Willams dvd "What I did last summer" seemed to work fine (as far as I can tell this is only 5.1 and not EX), while "Agent Cody Banks", "Basic" "Hollywood Homicide" all required me to press the SUR+ button to get the back channels working. Last night I put on Armageddon (also a 5.1 disk that I purchased in 2000) and this automatically put sound out of the back speakers. So as you say Olaf, I think that there is something on the region 4 disks (In my case) that the RSP-1098 (v2.1.1) is having a problem with in determining what format to use. As you also say, I had no such issues with v1.1.6. I'll speak with the distributor here in Oz on how to submit a formal bug report to Rotel Japan.

The only region 4 disk I've got that actually says DD 5.1 EX is Lord of the Rings and that seems to default to DD EX ok. Geoff, can you confirm that the region 4 versions of "Finding Nemo" and "Terminator 3" are DD EX? I'll try them as soon as I get a chance.

cheers,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[Aussie Geoff]

whmacs,

Geoff, can you confirm that the region 4 versions of "Finding Nemo" and "Terminator 3" are DD EX?

Some weirdness here...

Region 4 Finding Nemo is EX encoded in a dominant way (the main content not the set-up menus) and EX pushes as the default sound for it overriding some other formats (e.g. 5.1)
Region 4 Terminator 3 also has EX - but here it seems less dominant -with EX as an option rather than pushing as a format

Now I don't know what this means in terms of EX flagging - for example the Region 4 Finding Nemo DVD could be really hard flagged as EX and the Terminator 3 not flagged – hence it plays in the default format for the processor for a pure DD 5.1 signal and just lists EX as an option for the SUR+ key (this was a very early wish list request because outside Region 1 many EX DVDs weren't labelled or flagged as EX for marketing reasons!). Hard to tell though since the EX flag isn’t shown.

Bottom line though - both play EX just fine on my RSP-1098.

Interestingly - I have also tried (not very hard) to reproduce the problems you are having. It seems if I set the sound format on the INPUT to not have Dolbly IIx as the default and play a disk in 5.1 so that is the remembered setting for the DVD, then the next old 5.1 disk will also play in 5.1 with no centre backs. (Some of the early RSP-1098 users put in a request to Rotel to have this option rather than always have XS as the default). But the way this seems to work on my RSP-1098 is "right" in that it is treating DD 5.1 as a 5 channel source and not applying XS, EX or IIx processing unless you have set the default sound to override this with IIx etc - hence pure 5.1 processing gives no centre back speakers for a pure 5.1 source. Perhaps the fault you are getting is this feature not quite working right?

Geoff

[Andrew Pratt]

I've been testing a few discs to see if i can replicate the PLIIx issues people are having and I must admit i'm getting some odd behavior on mine too. For example Batman seems to work ok but Jurassic Park doesn't. For Jurassic Park when i select DD as the surround format in the DVD's menu it plays a universal studio's montage of their movies before the actual movie starts. The 1098 detects this as DD + PLIIx M and does not give me the rear surround channel. Once that segments ends and the movie starts the Rotel switches to DD + PLIIx C and the rear channel suddenly kicks in. I then tried the DTS track on the same DVD and it detects that as DD + PLIIx M and there is a surround channel so its not a Cinema vs Music issue for PLIIx.

[whmacs]

Thanks for the info Andrew, you may be onto something here. As I said above, I'm not having any real issues with EX disks (I'm still to test Finding Nemo), but just plain old DD 5.1 disks. Now the interesting thing is that some DD 5.1 disks automatically kick in the two back channels while others don't. One interesting thing about Armageddon (which automatically kicks in the back channels and I think Robbie Williams is the same) is that when you put on the disk the movie (or concert) starts straight away in DD 5.1, it doesn't bring up a menu with default stereo sound. All the other problem disks I have are stereo sound until you press play on the menu, then DD 5.1 kicks in (and no back channel sound) until I press the SUR+ button.

cheers,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[whmacs]

Ok, I just spoke to the Australian Distributor for Rotel (International Dynamics), they told me that they have received a number of calls from people with 7.1 systems not getting any sound out of the back two channels since they upgraded to v2.1.1. They are now putting together a formal letter to Rotel outlining the problem. The symptoms Dave @ International Dynamics described to me are the same as I am seeing. So I guess we just wait for another software upgrade from Rotel.

cheers,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[Aussie Geoff]

whmacs,

Excellent news.

Just a thought - the experience that Andrew is having and your comments re stereo make me think that firstly this is going to be hard to diagnose accross DVD regions - (e.g. the USA Region 1 version of Jurassic park intro of Universal Films seems very different from the Region 4 disk (no intro).

I have my Rotel set to 7 channel for s stereo DVD signal from the DVD and DPL IIx8)inema for EVERYTHING else (ie DD 2.0, DD 5.1 etc). And (so far) I haven't had the problem. I am wondering if you and Andrew have a different default for Stereo or DD 2.0. For example it is just possible that by 7 channel default is keeping the speakers active etc as the RSP-1098 switched between all those different sound formats used on the DVD intro, Menus, and actual movie?

No time to check - got to go to work

Geoff

[Andrew Pratt]

Good point Geoff I think in the name of science we should each state what our systems defualts are set to for each input..perhapse that will shed some light on the situation.

[whmacs]

Good idea, when I get home tonight I'll put a CD into my DVD player and see what it defaults to. As I've got a dedicated CD player I've never tried this before. I'll set the default to 7 channel stereo and see what happens. If I put in a two channel DVD into the DVD player it defaults to PLIIx Cin and I get sound out of all seven channels.

cheers,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[Andrew Pratt]

I tried a few more discs and even though I have all the video inputs set to PLIIx Cinema as the defualt I still get DD + PLIIx M quite a lot...with some DVD's switching between PLIIx C then to PLIIx M etc as the menus switch to trailers to the movie etc....very weird.

[Sithlord10]

I too called International Dynamics this morning and spoke to Dave and he said the same thing. I asked for a new unit but their not getting any unitl late March early April. By then though they will have received a response from Rotel and a fix hopefully. I will just have to conintue to use XS for my 7.1 setup until then.

[Olaf]

Dear All,

I am a bit confused about Geoff's message that he has two different defaults for his DVD connection. For stereo he mentioned 7-channels and for movies DD+PLIIx. Unless I have missed a menu and/or setup option I do not think this is possible.

I have set the default sound mode for my DVD to DD+PLIIx (which is probably true for all of us running a 7.1 setup, as all the other modes refer more to music then DVD - with the exception of DTS 6: Neo).

When I insert an DD+EX disc or any other DD disc the introduction and menu music play as DD+PLIIx with all speakers engaged. (Probably because the EX flag only applies to the movie itself and not to any intros and/or menus).

When I start the movie the sound mode changes to DD+XS (both both EX and non-EX discs) and the rear speakers stop working. When I toggle the sound mode back and forth (ending up with DD+XS again) the speakers start working.

A simple reason for this could be the introduction of a 2nd surround mode for 7.1 speaker setups with V2.1.1. Before V2.1.1 the only mode was DD+XS whereas now you could also have DD+PLII. Under V1.1.6 the RSP-1098 was perfect when it came to selecting the correct (best possible) format because there was only one option.

Personally I think there is a bug in the software routine that determines the best sound mode to select for a 7.1 setup. This would be further complicated by some discs either having or not having a EX flag.

Let us hope that Rotel can find the problem.

Regards,
Olaf

[Aussie Geoff]

Olaf,

Good question. Essentially with the old 1.1.6 firmware I learnt the following "trick" to get the RSP-1098 to remember different settings based on signal type for the one input. I am not sure how much is "black magic" and how much is real - but it works!

• Go to the INPUT Menu
• Select a sound type for the source you want to set on the setup menu (e.g. 7 channel stereo for 2 channel sources)
• Put in a source of that format and play it (e.g. PCM 2 channel CD)
• Put in a different source type (e.g. Dolby 5.1 sound track)
• Select the sound type you want
• Play the source
• Etc
• Stop with the one that you want to be the visible default for that INPUT.

This is quite powerful in that you can have something like DPL IIx Cinema as the default for all Dolby sources on the DVD player while having (as I do) 7 channel as the default for PCM stereo on that same player. My defaults for the CD player are quite different, etc. I have even used this to have some sources DPL IIx: Music and others DPL IIx Cinema which it seems to remember and manage (proving that the learning works – since I can quickly relearn and change Dolby 2.0 to IIx music, leaving 5.1 as IIx Cinema (I tried and then undid this again tonight!) Remarkably it all worked well in 1.1.6 firmware and (for me at least) seems to still work fine under 2.1.1.

There seems to be a further complexity (which I don’t really understand) in that the default sound types I have set this way interact with the last sound type I have selected for a source type (e.g. DTS) for an input. IE it remembers something about what you asked last with XS / IIx etc and tries to keep it / use it to help decide what to do...

Anyway my RSP-1098 for the DVD player shows a default sound type on the INPUT menu of 7 channel stereo but knows I want DPL IIx for any form of Dolby signal or DTS signal because I have “taught it” using those sources. There may be some simpler way of course to teach it. But it works. I have it down to instinct – I just thought that’s what you did and when I got 2.1.1 I experimented a bit with EX and IIx etc and then went through and taught it what I wanted and it seems to remember / work it out... Certainly I don’t (or haven’t yet at least!) got the jumping into IIx Music mode etc that some of you are gettting

All that aside – I’d say your bug analysis and the EX flag etc is doubtless true – since it shouldn’t do what it seems to do for you and whmacs etc. I wouldn’t be surprised to see some of this being machine specific (allowing for different build versions of Cirrus DSPs etc) hence some Club Rotel members having worse issues than others. This will make the software fix for this more than usually exciting! Clearly Rotel should also make the whole process better documented (as per the wish list suggestion) so that a user can more explicitly control the defaults.

PS - I know now I have documented this I am guaranteed to find some DVD / circumstance where it doesn't work I just hope I don't jinx my (seemingly) very nicely working 7.1 IIx setup by telling people about it!

Geoff

[Olaf]

Dear Geoff,

Thanks for the detailed and clear explanation. How did you come to know of this trick? Is it documented anywhere?

With regards to the V2.1.1 bug it is certainly becoming more and more strange.

For example Andrew mentioned he did not have rear speakers under DD+PLIIx (during intro + menu) and that his back speakers started working as soon as he started the movie. While for me it is exactly the other way around. Others are reporting a different behavior again.

You might be very right in assuming that regions and/or versions of hardware play a role as well (I personally hope not as that might make the correction a more difficult process).

The "good" news is that Rotel is now receiving information from different sources and lets hope they take this seriously. I hope that with Andrew's connections we get a acknowledgement from Rotel shortly.

Yesterday I have sent an e-mail to Rotel Europe and my local distributor in India but so far I have not received any reply.

Regards, Olaf

[Aussie Geoff]

Andrew

I tried a few more discs and even though I have all the video inputs set to PLIIx Cinema as the default I still get DD + PLIIx M quite a lot...with some DVD's switching between PLIIx C then to PLIIx M etc as the menus switch to trailers to the movie etc....very weird.

Further to my post above re learning the processing format for the sound type on the RSP-1098 - I can reproduce something a bit like what you are saying by teaching my RSP-1098 that I want DPL IIx Music for Dolby 2.0 surround or non surround sources (there is a hidden flag for this on Dolby 2.0 which is meant to trigger DPL processing when set which the RSP-1098 seems to honour (as it should under Dolby specs) but all this adds more to the confusion in that both are treated separately by the RSP-1098 as far as I can see!) and DPL IIx Cinema for 5.1 sources. Then I seem to get lots of changes into IIx Music mode as the RSP-1098 switches between the many different signal types encoded on the DVD before it gets down to the main movie. I found it was annoying so I re learnt IIx Cinema for these tracks (as per my above post) and all (seems to be) fine again (touch wood!)

I can even get the RSP-1098 to play stereo for Dolby 2.0 non surround and DPL IIx Music for Dolby 2.0 surround automatically – so I am sure that those cunning Rotel software engineers meant really well!!

So Is there any chance you have accidentally “taught” the RSP-1098 to play IIx music for either / both Dolby 2.0 (normal) or Dolby 2.0 (surround)? If so I can see why it will be switching through IIx Music and Cinema your DVD intro’s and I could well see on those RSP-1098s that seem to struggle locking in 7 channel first time – how this could become very confusing indeed!!!!!!!

Note: There is a long standing Wish List item asking Rotel to offer the option of displaying signal format information (which I had on my Denon). I remember Rotel saying to the first wish list request for this something along the lines of “why bother – leave it to the DVD player” – but for me this is a good example of where seeing it would help with the debugging!

Geoff

[Aussie Geoff]

Andrew, Olaf and whmacs (Stephen),

Scary, scary stuff. Being brave (or perhaps foolish) I thought - I wonder what happens if I teach my RSP-1098 to play Dolby Digital (no XS, EX, IIx etc) on a 5.1 source. With 2.1.1 firmware Dolby Digital 5.1 plays as 5.1 on a 7.1. system (as it should) – i.e. no centre back channels. I then need to press the SUR+ key and select XS, or EX or IIx to get the right mode in 7.1 and activate the rear two speakers. This seems very close to what people are reporting as a problem but not quite. Still given all of this one could imagine some subtle fault in the RSP-1098 sound mode switching or “remembering” that could easily result in it learning /remembering 5.1 wrongly for a non EX encoded 5.1 source and loosing the two rear channels under some circumstances. But from the descriptions - this is not quite what those people with the problem are getting....

It is all further confused by the different sound formats (Dolby 2.0 non surround, Dolby 2.0 surround, Dolby 5.1 and Dolby 5.1 EX) all on one DVD as you work from the menus through to the movie - As well as the RSP-1098s valiant attempts to remember what you want through all those sound formats and switch accordingly!

Still - I'm off to quickly relearn my RSP-1098 out of this very bad habit and play nice DPL IIx Cinema again ....

Geoff

[Andrew Pratt]

Very interesting Geoff I'll have to give that a try tonight as see if I can teach mine to behave :stupidpc:

[whmacs]

Hi Guys,
Geoff, thanks for all the detailed analysis checking on your own system. I really appreciate it. So just to paraphase to ensure I've got what you have done correct. If your DVD is connected to input 1 (as an example) when you go into that input you should see 7 channel Stereo as the default sound type? If you put a CD in the DVD player you then get 7 channel sound. If you then put in a DVD it automatically kicks over to DD+PLIIx C. Does this happen as soon as you put in the DVD or does it stay in 7 channel stereo on the DVD intro then kick across to DD+PLIIx C when the actual 5.1 movie starts?

I didn't get much of a chance to play last night as I had someone come by to purchase my Onkyo 787 that I was previously using as a processor before the RSP-1098. I took the guy into the family room to show him my set up and my three kids (8, 9 & 2) had hijacked the room and where watching "Ice Age" on the Projector. Oh well, I guess that all my programming effort on the Marantz 5200 has pasted the 'user friendly' test. Interestingly I checked the back channels and they where working, but I think 'Ice Age' is an EX disk, which I've never had any problems with. When the guy say the image and heard the 7.1 sound you could physically see his jaw drop. While this back speaker thing is anoying, reations like this remind me just how good the RSP-1098 / 1075 / 1070 is and what a pleasure they are when watching a movie.

cheers,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[whmacs]

Guys,
Even though International Dynamics are sending a email to Rotel about this problem, I would still like to send Rotel my own email. This thread seems to have done a great job in detailing the problem individuals are having with v2.1.1 so I would like to make reference to it. Could someone email an appropiate address for Rotel technical support? Looking on Rotel's International web site I only see sales type email addresses. You can PM me at smacmillan@qvalent.com

Thanks,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[Aussie Geoff]

whmacs,

If you then put in a DVD it automatically kicks over to DD+PLIIx C. Does this happen as soon as you put in the DVD or does it stay in 7 channel stereo on the DVD intro then kick across to DD+PLIIx C when the actual 5.1 movie starts?

Re your question - basically right- but as soon as I put a movie DVD in it starts to work its way through variations on IIx - Dolby IIx: Cinema, then Dolby Digital + IIx Cinema etc based on the underlying sound format of the different video segment. It is usually not until the movie OR the Dolby intro music that I finally get the full DD+ IIx format.

Geoff

[Andrew Pratt]

Steven I'm sure Geoff can give you an aussie email address to send this to...the North American staff already know we're working on it.

[Aussie Geoff]

Stephen - you know have the Email by PM

Geoff

[Aussie Geoff]

Olaf, Sithlord10 (and others with the 5.1 / 7.1) issues,

Can you look at the RSP-1098 2.1.1. OSD post here and see if you have this problem as well - I am looking to see if there is a positive correlation between upgraded RSP-1098 units with the OSD issue and the 5.1 / 7.1 –issue so far (small sample) its a 1 to 1 match.... It should help with the debugging by Rotel if we know....

Geoff

[Olaf]

Dear Geoff,

Would love to try and help out but I would first have to install V2.1.1 again as I have downgraded to V1.1.6 because of the rear speaker problem. Will do this on Sunday morning and let you know.

Would not be surprised if this is just another (minor) bug in V2.1.1 and not related to the 7.1 speaker problem, but then again who knows.

So far I have not received any reply (no acknowledgement at all) from Rotel Europe despite having sent two reminders already. Hope you guys are having more luck on getting Rotel to respond/acknowldge that there might a real problem.

Regards,
Olaf

[Aussie Geoff]

Olaf,

Thanks for this. PS When you switch back from 2.1.1. you may want toi try 1.1.8 - it has some worthwile fixes in (including triggers) and (so far) no one's reported any of the 2.1.1 weirdness with it.

Geoff

[Sithlord10]

I don't get that happening with V2.1.1. Another thing thats happening on my is that when playing a dvd or cd and I have it set to say PCM Stereo I press any of the other surround options on the remote Eg:7 channel and it doesn't work. I found it worked after I pressed the reset button on the remote. I'm still only getting stereo when DPL11x is selected :cry: . I hope they find the fix for this as it's very disappointing that Rotel haven't catered for all build dates for the 1098. Mine will probably require a new Cirrus chip and possibly a whole new board. All I know is that I will be without my HT again for a few days or even a week. Not something to look forward to. :sh:

[Aussie Geoff]

Sithlord10,

I hope they find the fix for this as it's very disappointing that Rotel haven't catered for all build dates for the 1098. Mine will probably require a new Cirrus chip and possibly a whole new board. All I know is that I will be without my HT again for a few days or even a week.

Of interest - when you refer to a "new Cirrus Chip" or a "whole new board" - is this something you have been told or are guessing from the posts here?

On the good news side, should you need, it the RSP-1098's boards are swapable on a "while you wait" basis - So I'd be thinking in and out the same say (or even the same 20 minutes)

Geoff

[Olaf]

**** POSSIBLY GOOD NEWS ***

Dear All,

I just received an e-mail from my Rotel dealer in India and he has informed me that a "RESET TO FACTORY DEFAULTS" is required as part of the upgrade procedure. Without this step the RSP-1098 may behave strangely according to my dealer!

As I have downgraded to V1.1.6 and am still at the office I cannot validate this suggestion.

Is any one of you willing to give this a try?

Regards, Olaf

[Aussie Geoff]

Olaf,

Interesting and certainly makes sense....

All those memory areas with old settings etc for sound modes and speaker settings... This could explain some of the quite different behaviours people are seeing after the same upgrade.

The instructions for some of the other Processors with upgrades (Anthem etc) also recommend this for their major upgrades.

Lets see how this helps...

Can't do any harm....

Geoff

[Kevin D]

Didn't help my single center rear problem on EX tracks. Fortunately I don't believe I'm having the problem of not getting center rears until I hit the SUR+ button. BTW, do you know how much stuff you have to write down to do a factory reset? Takes like 10 minutes just to go through all the menus to write it down!

Kevin D.

[Olaf]

Kevin,

I am sorry to hear that it did not work especially since this was quite an effort from your side. I have only passed on what my Rotel dealer told me and will try this myself on Sunday next.

Regards,
Olaf

[servo01]

Hello @ All,

I also did the update but the procedure was kind of different.

First I called up Rotel in germany and had my serial number on the RSP 1098 checked.

The very friendly and helpful Service Manager told me that I do NOT need to do the Eprom update at all on my unit (Pretty new model which has the new chips already )!!

I went straight from to the firmware update ( took me with Windows XP exactly 4 minutes ) and the update was done !! No Bugs at all and even my customer settings are still there.

It might be a good idea to contact Rotel in terms of the serial numbers of your Pre Amps .

All above problems seem to me that there is something fishy going on because of the EPROM update.

Cheers

Servo

[Sithlord10]

Geoff I was told that by one of the Techs at International Dynamics after we discussed all the other options. As I've tried everything else thats been suggested Hardware is the only thing left. I know Rotel will figure it out soon enough and then we can all enjoy the benifits of Dolby Prologic11x :LOL:

Whmacs your setup looks amazing love the screen. I will have something similar when I buy a house hopefully at the end of this year as long as I can avoid spending money on upgrading

[whmacs]

Thanks Sithlord,
I was lucky enough to build an extension (bedroom, family room & attic) onto my home last year, so had the opportunity to incorporate the home theatre into the family room as it was being constructed. So, what was the outcome of your conversation with International Dymanics? Are they waiting for a response from Rotel before they do anything?

Olaf, thanks for the tip on the factory reset. I'm debating whether to do it this weekend as I have a bunch of people coming over on wednesday for a BAR-B-QUE (they also want to see the home theatre) so I might wait to after then to try it (As my problem is very minor). Has anyone had anything bad happen after a factory reset? I assume this works ok?

As a side note my wife and myself watched "Darkness Falls" last night. This is a fairly "B" grade horror movie, but it has some outstanding rear effects (especially on a 7.1 system with PLIIx C) This demon women thing spends the last 20 minutes of the movie flying around the room! It really gives the back four channels a big workout. Its worth hiring this average movie just for the surround effects

On another side note on my Strong PVR had a problem where it would somethimes lock up or crash when you where fast forwarding through a recorded program on the hard drive. Yesterday, I reflashed the EPROM in it using new firmware that was released by Strong. Hey Presto! Problem solved, no more lockups! So as Sithlord says, I'm sure Rotel will come up with a fix soon. Companies can't afford to generate bad press with software problems that can be fixed (Strong was getting a lot of bad press over this common lockup problem).

cheers,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[Sithlord10]

Well I decided to try and flash the Eproms and put V2.1.1 on since getting my unit back and guess what.... IT WORKED . I knew it would because I heard the clicking sound when puting on each Eprom which I didn't get before. I havn't tried much but I have found that I need to use the Sur+ button to engage the back rears when selecting DDPL11x with a DD source and that was with Star Wars EP2. I will test more tomorrow but I'm sure everything will be as it should. Finally I have DDPL2X arty:

[Azeke]

Congratulations Sithlord10, I know you are a very happy camper . Welcome to the world of DoProIIx 8) . Keep us informed.

Regards,

Azeke

[Olaf]

Dear All,

Well today I found some time to validate the suggestion from my dealer in India (probably recommended by Rotel support Europe) and upgraded once more from V1.1.6 to V2.1.1.

This time however I followed the process with a factory reset (yes Kevin, it is a lot of work).

Like Kevin this exercise did NOT solve any problem. I still do not get my rear channels to work without switching sound modes. Besides this obvious problem which has been reported by many, I also seem to have found a new one.

I followed these steps:

1. Play XXX which is a normal DD movie and set the sound mode to DD+XS
2. Play James Bond which is DD+EX (RSP-1098 automatically defaulted)
3. Play XXX again and the sound mode remains DD+EX (i.s.o. DD+XS

Like I said many times before I think there is a problem with the sound mode selection which appears to be isolated to DD and DD+EX. For DTS everything works fine!

Like suggested by Geoff some messages back I have now downgraded to V1.1.8 and everything works as it is supposed to do. On Monday I will write back to my dealer and advise him that his suggestion does not work.

Lets hope they will investigate further.

Regards,
Olaf