PLIIx news

[Andrew Pratt]

My sources within Rotel just told me that the PLIIx code will be released on the Rotel website very soon. They're just finishing up testing but unless something turns up out of the blue they're happy with the code and we'll see it very soon. Now that's the good news...the bad news is that some of the 1098's out there are running an early version of a chip that won't run PLIIx and there's really no way of telling which you have short of emailing Rotel and asking. I don't believe and 1068's or 1067's are effected by this chip confusion.

I'll post a follow up when I find out more or when the firmware is available.

[Aussie Geoff]

Andrew,

I wonder whether this is the EPROM Firmware for the Cirrus DSP that a earlier source was suggesting the need for an upgrade from 3.1 to 3.2.

Either way, this will (of course) be a test of Rotel's customer service which they should pass It would be reasonable to expect that for those with the earlier chip Rotel will offer a quick return to base upgrade for a reasonable fee (like $50)

Keep us informed...

Geoff

[aud19]

(Mostly) Good news! I'm sure Rotel will do something for the early folks...

Jason




Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide

[Azeke]

This is indeed good news Andrew 8) . This should prove to be a very interesting thread.

Is it possible that Rotel can release the serial numbers of the earlier versions that may be affected?

Regards,

Azeke

[Andrew Pratt]

I'm not sure about posting the serial numbers..and since Rotel's usually so quick to get back to you its likely best just to email them and ask....though maybe there's something we can do on that front. Anyway I'm supposed to be getting a copy of the code early next week to play with and it appears as though I'm going to need two peices of code one to upgrade my EPROM and one to upgrade the OS so it'll be a two step process.

[Azeke]

Sounds like a plan, Andrew 8).

I actually exchanged the first 1098 I owned and received a later version, hopefully it has the latest EPROM version. I guess I'll know soon enough.

Regards,

Azeke

[Aussie Geoff]

Andrew,

Re the serial numbers, most manufacturers use sequential serial numbers so that they can identify models and batches and date of manufacture. The formats tend to be either a product specific number + a sequential number or just a pure sequential number (with or without a check digit). Anyway – You should definitely ask Rotel re the serial numbers - I'd be very surprised if the answer wasn't something like "every model with a serial number whose last 8 digits are great than 12345678 has the new chip in".

Also - I understood that you had one of the first RSP-1098s - before they were released generally. So surely yours will be a good test of the upgrade process for the chip?

Geoff Costello

[Andrew Pratt]

right i posed the question to that end this afternoon so we'll see what they have to say regarding the serial numbers etc.

[JohnSC]

Does anyone know if the 1066 will get an upgrade for PLIIx? I assume the chip cannot handle it but I would ask anyway :?:

[Aussie Geoff]

John SC,

The general consensus from a number of earlier postings on this forum last year seems to be that DPL IIx is not likely on the RSP-1066 because it is a relatively large set of code that won't fit into the remaining memory on the RSP-1066 - requiring either a hardware upgrade (more memory) or dropping existing features (not popular), to support.

Rotel XS is surprisingly good though - doing nice things for most 5 channel formats in 6 and 7 channel and is more complex that some give it credit for.

Do a search on 1066 and IIx over the last year to see....

Who knows what will happen though once the RSP-1068 is out.

Geoff Costello

[rmassey]

It would be reasonable to expect that for those with the earlier chip Rotel will offer a quick return to base upgrade for a reasonable fee (like $50)

I would think that Rotel should pick up the whole cost of this upgrade. Why should early adopters of the 1098 have to pay to fix a flaw like this?

[Andrew Pratt]

Actually since PLIIx was never sold as a feature of the 1098 Rotel doesn't really owe us anything. True it would seem odd if their flagship processor lacked a feature offered on a lower end model but they are retrofitting the code into the 1098 and as such they should be thanked not condemed for their efforts. Besides the actual sfotware itself is free so the total cost isn't very high if you're unlucky enough to have an older unit...ask a Lexicon user how much it costs to upgrade one of their processors?

[Ossi]

Andrew is right. The unit was never ever advertised either to be upgradable neither to have DPL IIx at any time. So stay fair, there is absolutely no flaw anywhere. There is in my eyes even no need for Rotel to provide an upgrade.
Anyhow, this looks completely different with the 1068, but my understanding is that software is coming along for this unit, so we will have to wait and see.

[Andrew Pratt]

Well Rotel sent me the code for the PLIIx and EPROM upgrades today so I will try to do the update tonight if my baby daughter will let me It looks like its a fair bit more complex then the normal Hyperterminal update but nothing to outlandish...though we'll see tonight just how it all goes.

[jfinneru]

interesting! hopefully you will get back to us real quick to let us know the result 8)




brgds joern

moderator norwegian avforum

[aud19]

I and I'm sure many others await your findings Any word from Rotel on a solution for the early 1098 owners and the required hardware change? Will they make something availaleable that you can send your unit in to Rotel or have your dealer fix like the 1066 BM fix at a charge or not?

Jason




Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide

[Azeke]

This indeed in wonderful news.

We await your results with breathless anticipation.

Good Luck Andrew,

Azeke

[apotts]

F5 F5 F5!

[Andrew Pratt]

F5 F5 F5!

Cute...though it should really by Ctrl F5 to get a true refresh

Ok so I manged to install the new EPROM software and the new firmware and everything went perfectly smooth. It does take a while to do it all though esp. with XP Pro but its easy enough to do if you follow directions. To update the EPROM you have to use a small application that you install first. This little app. prompts you for the start and end memory points where it will be installed as well as the machine ID...its critical you follow the directions during this part as you wouldn't want to be installing the new code where it isn't supposed to go. Its also a three step process as the EPROM code is split up into three parts so you cycle through the first few steps 3 times changing where the file is to be written to each loop though...its all nicely written out for you though so don't worry you don't need a Ph.D to do this. The final step is one most of us is familar with as its just another firmware update using HyperTerminal just like before so I won't go into much detail there except to say it took about 50 mintues to do that step and just over half an hour for the first bit with my XP HTPC....so give yourself lots of time when you go to do the update...it isn't a 5 minute job!

So what's new? well the new firmware has given us two new things that I saw right off the hop..first there's obviously the new PLIIx code that replaces the old PLII code (I'm not sure if PLII is still an option or not...I'll check) and the other thing I noticed is that the amp triggers are now set up a little different to give us greater control over how the second zone gets triggered.

Actually here's everything that's changed with this latest install...

V2.0.0 to V2.1.0
- Added Dolby Pro Logic IIx format
- Changed contour setting to make any contour adjustments made via the Tone
button on the remote a temporary adjustment. Permanent contour adjustments can
be made via the Contour menu on the OSD.
- Adjusted CB levels for DTS ES Matrix surround mode.
- Corrected a bug causing no CB output when in DTS ES Discrete mode.
- Improved decoding of Dolby Digital mono soundtracks.
- Changed the menu display for Dolby Digital 2Ch per Dolby Requirements:
• DD2CH with PLII now displays as "Dolby D + PLII C/M/E"
• Dolby 3 Stereo to "Dolby D + 3 Stereo"
- New commands for RS232 control added for discrete main and second zone volume
and source selection.
- Corrected some terms for the Italian and German languages.
V2.1.0 to V2.1.1
- Improved 12 volt trigger assignment to allow fully independent 12V operation with
both main and second zones. Refer to the Technical Updates section for more
details on this.
- Level adjustment of PLIIx surround center back levels.

I haven't spent any time listening to PLIIx yet as it only just finished installing and I have another project I need to work on before my wife gets home but I'll see if I can spend some time with it later on tonight or tomorrow night

[apotts]

Andrew,

Thank you for taking the time to post this! This update is exactly what I've been waiting for.

I only hope it's a short time before it appears for general download on the Rotel site.

Andrew

PS This site is a touch slow, so kept the server load down by holding off the CTRL key!

[Adz]

When I spoke to Mike S. at Rotel yesterday to get an update on my blown 1080/1095 (by the way, the left channel on the 1080 just blew a fuse, but the left channel on the 1095 was completely fried through), he said the decision on offering DPLIIx was a decision to be made by HQ in Japan and their global distributors. He sounded somewhat optimistic but he clearly implied a final decision has not been made yet amd he wouldn't comment on early version versus new version isues. By the way, for the U.S. Rotel market, these guys in Mass have been extremely helpful




Adz

[Andrew Pratt]

Have you sorted out the “Early Version of a Chip” issue – is this just the EEPROM update or something else? IE Do members need to worry about serial numbers and Emailing Rotel for about the need for a new chip or is it just if you have an older RSP-1098 you need to do the EEPROM update before the firmware update?

Don't know yet.

Do you have the new manual / technical update you can send me for the Wish list – that way I can incorporate any changes in the Wish List V4.0?

Just the info I posted above on what's been added to 2.1.1

If I understand your Web post correctly it looks like there are 3 different writes to 3 different memory areas of the RSP-1098’s EPROM to do. This could be error prone for some users (any wrong address and dead EEPROM for ever!). You may want to suggest to Rotel that they try a single larger file with the full EEPROM contents in it – that way there is nothing to go wrong in terms of addresses etc and it can be rerun like a normal firmware upgrade.

I did ask about that but my contact wasn't sure why it was split. I'll ask again and see if it can't be made easier.

Do you have more details on the 12V trigger fix – it sounds like this may address a wish list item re this?

See details above but basically now the zone's can opperate seperatly from the main zone...and it likely involves the All command working better then it used to.

Can you confirm that the version is V2.1.1

i'm pretty sure that's what it is

Do you know when Rotel are planning to ship?

No they're still working out those details...I'll post more when I hear something.

[Tha Freak]

Will there be anithinh like that for the RSX-1055???




- - - - - - - - - -

"Are you gonna bark all day little doggy?...or are you gonna bite?
-Mr. Blond in Reservoir Dogs

[Andrew Pratt]

No the 1055 and 1066 are using chips that don't support PLIIx code

[Andrew Pratt]

News Flash!!!!!!

It seems that ALL 1098's will take the new EPROM code regardless of which chip it has and the new PLIIx code should be on the Rotel site any day now (possibly even as soon as this afternoon!)

[Azeke]

Yipeeeee .

Has the little one allowed you the chance to check the acoustics?

Great job sir,

Azeke

[Tha Freak]

the funny thing is that the babble about "upgradability" of the unit as a selling advantage next to othe brands, but on the next model they change everything inside and abandon upgrades in prior models...






- - - - - - - - - -

"Are you gonna bark all day little doggy?...or are you gonna bite?
-Mr. Blond in Reservoir Dogs

[Andrew Pratt]

Has the little one allowed you the chance to check the acoustics?

No between her and some prior pronto programming I needed to get done I haven't spent more then 5 minutes with it since the upgrade.

Freak while I understand your frustration until all these processors are built more like PC's where a card swap could do hardware upgrades there's only so much you can do via software...and to that end Rotel has done a great job upgrading the 1055 and 1066 with the free firmware upgrades they offered to the user community...there's quite a few manufacturers that also claimed their units to be upgradeable only they never offered any upgrades...or charged for the ones they did offer.

[Azeke]

Tha Freak,

I understand your dismay, however I agree with Andrew unless there is a major bug with the 1066, Rotel has pretty much maximized it's upgrades on that unit. Rotel has been IMHO very good about providing the corrective upgrades that most user's request.

Regards,

Azeke

[wlowney]

Hi Andrew

This Club Rotel site is great
I finally scooped up a 1068 this week.
This will be the first time I ever upgraded a component on a PC so just bear with me a little.
My question is when the download for PLIIx is available do I need to download any Eprom codes in addition to the PLIIx download.
Also how do I get to the Hyperterminal on my PC.
I am running Windows XP

Again thanks for all the info you provide

[eulogytool]

Man this is great news!! I've been checking websites every day AND bugging Rotel on a byweekly basis about the PLIIx upgrade. And it looks like it will happen. And in shorter time than expected. They must have really jumped right in with PLIIx when it was released. Rotel has made me proud!!

As Mr. Burns would say..."Excellent" :twisted:

[Jason Brown]

how do I get to the Hyperterminal on my PC.
I am running Windows XP

Start> All Programs> Accessories> Communications> Hyper Terminal.

http://www.rotel.com/support/techups/techup-H20-instruc.htm

[wlowney]

Is the hook up any different if your using a cable modem?

[Andrew Pratt]

No a cable modem has absolutely nothing to do with this upgrade. Basically you should have gotten a RS232 to RJ45 cable with your processor. The serial end needs to be plugged into your PC while the RJ45 gets plugged into the Rotel. From there just follow the directions given for the eprom upgrade and hyperterminal is all spelled out for you in the document as well.

[whmacs]

Hi All,
I've only owning my RSP-1098 for two weeks now, one of the major things that has impressed me is the great job XS processing does on my two back channels (7.1 system). I realise that Andrew is probably the only person that can answer this (due to the software upgrade he has), but what beneifits will PLIIx give over Rotel XS and is Rotel XS still available after the software upgrade? I've read the info on the Dolby site about PLIIx, but how is it better than Rotel's XS or HK's Logic 7? I know it can covert 2 channel to 7.1, but my real interest lies in how much better it will be compared to DD 5.1 + XS.

I'm sure Andrew will give us his impressions soon (having a 2, 8 & 9 year old myself I know how precious time is). The sound differences between Rotel's XS and Dolby's PLIIx should generate some interesting discussions.

cheers,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[Andrew Pratt]

Well its really very difficult to AB since we no longer have PLII as an option but I will say that the sound processing on a 2 channel TV station is fantastic! I watched part of the Pirates of the Carab. this afternoon off the dish and I was very impressed with how solid the surround was. Now the Rotel's PLII code always has been aggressive and nice so it might just have been the good surround track in that movie coming though but at least so far I'm liking what I'm hearing. Also note that most of the benefits of PLIIx will be to those that have 7.1 speaker setups and wide rooms so that better surround steering will be noticed...in my room given its 12 width I only need one rear speaker with my bipole side speakers so I'm perphase not going to notice as much as some will...that said I easily got my money's worth from this upgrade

[whmacs]

Hi Andrew,
Thanks for the feedback. It sounds like you are enjoying PLIIx! As my room is 23 feet wide and I have a 7.1 setup it sounds like I'm really going to enjoy the upgrade! Have you watched any DD 5.1 DVD's with PLIIx yet?

cheers,
Stephen




My Home Theatre

[eelco74]

Does DPLIIx work for DD5.1 discs ? I cannot see the difference from DD-EX. My 3801 does matrix in the rears anyway, even on non 6.1 DD discs.

[Aussie Geoff]

Eelco74,

Pro-Logic IIx will add on to a DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1 track and derive the extra two rear channels. Older processors tended to make both rear channels identical (they are in DD-EX and DTS-ES). ProLogic IIx tries to steer the sound smoothly through the rear speakers for better positioning. General consensus seems to be that DPL IIx does a better 7.1 job than THX Ultra2 or DD-EX and is on a par with DTS-ES Matrix

Here's a quote from Richard on HTF with his Yamaha RX-V1400 with DPLIIx

DPLIIx works wonders for 2 channel stereo, DTS and DD 5.1, it sounds amazingly good in 7.1, trust me.
For reading. look at http://www.dolby.com/technologies/PLIIx/faq.html
And yes, it sounds better than plain DD EX.
Personally, DPLIIx is the biggest thing in surround sound since 5.1 was introduced.

Try this thread for more details http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...ghlight=IIx+EX

Geoff Costello

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi,

For those eager RSP-1098 owners that want to understand how DPL IIx will integrate into the menu and remote control structure of the RSP-1098. This link on the Rotel site for the RSX-1067 does a good job of explaining. There are still a few typos etc but you can see what they have done and how it will all work.

An of course this link at dolby Labs answers all those "how it works" quesitons.

Geoff

[DrBoom]

Hmm, if you can't select normal PL II anymore, but only PL IIx, then what happens if you've only got 5 speakers ?
Does it revert to normal PL II then, even if it says PL IIx ?

Also, does it still do that thing with 2-ch material that is NOT ProLogic encoded where you get the voices through the rear and front channels as well ?
I thought maybe they'd changed that somehow with the coming of PL IIx, so I'm curious

[eulogytool]

Dr.Boom,

PLIIx is just an extension of PLII where it adds in the rear speakers IF you have them. There's rumors floating around that PLIIx would work better than PLII because it has better steering but if you go to Dolby's website and read the PLIIx FAQ it squashes that rumor. So if you only have five speakers it would be no different than regular PLII even though it would say PLIIx on the menu.

[JP]

I have to chime in on this. Having a 1066 and being told on Rotel's own website that the unit is software upgradeable I took the plunge and picked one up. I was able to purchase the unit directly from Rotel and was surprised by their dedication to their products. Before moving out to California I lived only about an hour south of Rotel's offices, and with all the 'bugs' popping up Tim from Rotel came by my house and further showed their dedication to their products and customers. So I have to salute them, but one thing that does bother me is their omissions and the sentimentality that Rotel 'doesn't owe us anything' In retrospect I partially agree. Rotel has bent over backwards to help 1066 owners, but bare in mind, they were fixing their own problems, not issues that customers created. That is their responsibility to release a product that functions as promised. (That goes for any manufacturer)

Now, Rotel never specifically said they would offer newer sound formats, but when a company states their product is software upgradeable in this day of age I come to the conclusion that the unit can be updated with new sound formats. So I am now already looking at selling my 1066 and looking for a company that will actually support a product with sound format upgrades, and not just bug fixes. I do not care that the unit had/has all these bugs, I do care when a company replaces it after only a few years of fixing their own mistakes. Rotel is a very dedicated company, but even though they helped their customers by 'upgrading' the unit with software fixes, isn't enough in my book when these 'fixes' were just that, fixes that attempted to rectify mistakes or omissions in engineering.

Sorry this is so long, I am not here to bash Rotel, simply to state my opinion. I worked for a company in MASS that did, and has done the same thing as Rotel. Released a product with numerous bugs and NEVER fixed all of them, and has simply let the product sit in the market waiting for a replacement so they can get it right a second time. Please feel free to add your 'constructive' comments or observations and I will be more than happy to discuss them in a professional manor. As to Andrew, you have been an invaluable asset dealing with all these issues, and I salute your dedication as well.

Best Regards,

JP

[Kevin D]

So I am now already looking at selling my 1066 and looking for a company that will actually support a product with sound format upgrades, and not just bug fixes. I do not care that the unit had/has all these bugs, I do care when a company replaces it after only a few years of fixing their own mistakes.

Hmm.. Ok here's the upgrade list from the 1065 (might as well start from there as the 1066 came with all previous upgrades when it was introduced after the 1065. I've deleted the ones that are bugs fixes.

V1.1 to V1.2
- Added dts Neo:6 feature.
- Added Pro Logic II Music Panorama, Dimension, and Center Width settings.
- Added RS232 protocols for AM, FM, Pro Logic II, Neo:6 and OSD.
V1.2 to V1.3
- Added 6.1/7.1 Channel output from Pro Logic II (with EPROM change.)
- Added delay times for CB speaker(s) in PLII.
- Added discrete IR codes for Pro Logic II Cinema, PLII Music, 5Ch Stereo, 7Ch Stereo, and 2Ch Stereo.
- Added subwoofer level adjustment for the Multi-Input.
- Added IR codes for FM Mono and Memory.
V1.3 to V1.4
V1.4 to V1.42
- Added an IR code for Zone 2 control from the main zone.
- Added discrete IR codes for TUNE and PRESET modes.
V1.42 to V2.12 (Requires EPROM Change)
- Added Dolby Digital EX feature.
V2.12 to V2.16
V2.16 to V2.18

V2.18 to V2.19
V2.19 to V2.20
V2.20 to V2.21
V2.21 to V2.22
- Front panel display for Multi Input changed.
- Sub level can be set to OFF for different surround modes, including stereo.
V2.22 to V2.23
- Volume display on OSD changed from bars to numerical display.


Wow, that's about 50% enhancements and 50% bug fixes. Now lets see, we added center rears on PLII, Neo 6, and Dolby EX. We also got a relatively inexpensive upgrade to HD component boards and a nice and easy solution to the way they implemented the bass redirect on the multi-inputs (this is not to fix a bug, but their choice on how MOST of their customers would want it).

For Rotel to have the processing and memory reserves to handle all future and 'unknown' upgrades you would probably wind up paying just as much over the cost of the 1066 as it will take to upgrade to the 1068.

You said yourself that Rotel never said they would offer new formats (all thought they did), yet you just assumed they would (and they did).

I personally think that Rotel did an excellent job of using the upgrade port for a good mix of upgrades and bug fixes. Anybody that thinks the 1066 is intitled to a PLIIx upgrade (hardware or software) just needs to sell it and never buy Rotel again since they obviously duped everyone into thinking their processor would be current for half a decade.


Sorry for the rant, but everyone needs to look at the range of upgrades from the beginning, not just from when they purchased it.

Kevin D.

[Andrew Pratt]

JP if you honeslty want a processor that is as upgradeable as you say you're going to have to be willing to part with $$$ as you'll need a card based processor like the new Rotel 1098 and the lexicon's for example...even then expect to pay $$ for those card swaps. There's only so much you can do with the hardware in a processor before a new chip is needed. Rotel did fix bugs with their firmware releases but they also listened to us and addressed some other issues that weren't really bugs but prefferences (REC Out for example on the display)