Rotel Power Conditioners

[Nolan B]

My dealer said he can order these now if I want one. I currently have a Pure AV fp30 and was wanting to make one final upgrade in this area and want to know if anyone knows the difference between Richard Grey and APC (rotel) products. Id like the rotel because it matches nices, but id get the richard grey Power Pig if its a different/better technology.

Anyone have APC or Richard grey right now?

[Blindamood]

Hey Vancouver, thanks for the heads up on the new Rotel (APC) conditioners. I may be interested in one of theseat some point, to match the rest of my theater system.

I currently have the APC H15 (silver) in my two-channel system, and it seems to be working just fine. I really love the fact that it regulates the voltage when needed. It also provides other information that you can scroll through, such as how much is currently being pulled by your system.

We just had extensive thunderstorms here in Cinci the last couple of days, and so far no problems with my system (knock on wood...).

[Club1820]

Nothing on their website yet.

[Nolan B]

Nothing on their website yet.

i read a letter my dealer got from rotel talking about the RDV 1092; the video processor; and power conditioners. The owner of the store said the a letter like that is sent 1-2 months before they get the product.

[Clepto]

APC is more PC oriented, so you might get a more audio friendly filtering/condition via richard grey... Of course, there's all the associated snake oil with power conditioning to begin with, so imo it really won't make a difference, unless you're in a very old buildinging with bad wiring...

[aud19]

APC is more PC oriented, so you might get a more audio friendly filtering/condition via richard grey... Of course, there's all the associated snake oil with power conditioning to begin with, so imo it really won't make a difference, unless you're in a very old buildinging with bad wiring...

These pruducts are designed specifically for HT And worst case scenario is that you already have clean power and it doesn't do anything. Otherwise it cleans up the signal and interference from microwaves/fridges etc and protects from surges and brownouts.

I'll always recommed APC products. They make great stuff :T

As for Richard Grey, it's supposed to be very high quality gear as well but I think you may be paying slightly more for the name in that case....

[grit]

For what it's worth (if anything), Richard Grey does not do any filtering at all. If I understood it correctly, they just condition the power. There's an entire argument about whether or not "filtering" power takes away power, thus why Richard Grey "conditions" it. That being said, I don't know if the Richard Grey provides any protection. Can anyone comment on the protective capabilities of either system?

[Dmantis]

I have found Panamax to work very well. I used a Monster Power center(2 different ones) and like the Panamax better.

Rotels may be worth the wait. We shall see.

Dan

[DSGCobra]

monster power here. the deals going the the 3500MKII are way too good to pass up.

[Clepto]

APC has the battery backup also, which is rather nice. Especially to prevent brownouts and blips in power that would normally shut the system down and power it up rapidly...

AVR (auto voltage regulation) also a part of that.

[Nolan B]

For what it's worth (if anything), Richard Grey does not do any filtering at all. If I understood it correctly, they just condition the power. There's an entire argument about whether or not "filtering" power takes away power, thus why Richard Grey "conditions" it. That being said, I don't know if the Richard Grey provides any protection. Can anyone comment on the protective capabilities of either system?

apparently you need two seperate products form richard grey to totally isolate the power. They work together

[IntegrateMe]

Technically, you need three Richard Gray products to do it all.

The Substation plugs into the receptacle, the Powerbridge plugs into the Substation and the pole pig plugs into the powerbridge. It costs about $5000, but I doubt you'll beat it.

The $2000 APC/Rotel will be a good substitute for the Powerbridge, but the pole pig and the substation are different produts aimed at doing different things.

[Nolan B]

Technically, you need three Richard Gray products to do it all.

The Substation plugs into the receptacle, the Powerbridge plugs into the Substation and the pole pig plugs into the powerbridge. It costs about $5000, but I doubt you'll beat it.

The $2000 APC/Rotel will be a good substitute for the Powerbridge, but the pole pig and the substation are different produts aimed at doing different things.

can you elaborate alittle more on this?

[IntegrateMe]

Without going into too much detail here are the functions:
1. The substation eliminates ground loops and provides lightning protection. It is designed to take a 220/240v incoming, but another model will work with 120v/110v.

2. The Powerbridge is a 2000VA Battery back up that also provides surge suppression and reduces the AC noise floor. It is basically a 600S and a battery back up in one box.

3. The Pole Pig is designed to accomodate digital components specifically to isolate them from the remainder of the system to eliminate cross talk. It also provides, surge suppression, and when coupled with 1 and 2, it will protect ay sensitive digital component.

Hope this helps,

Barry

P.S. All that being said however, I plan on replacing my Panamax 5500 with the Rotel rather than the three Richard Gray pieces. With the extra money, I'd rather upgrade my RMB-1075 to something else. I am also pretty impartial, since I am a Panamax, Rotel and Richard Gray dealer.

[Nolan B]

Without going into too much detail here are the functions:
1. The substation eliminates ground loops and provides lightning protection. It is designed to take a 220/240v incoming, but another model will work with 120v/110v.

2. The Powerbridge is a 2000VA Battery back up that also provides surge suppression and reduces the AC noise floor. It is basically a 600S and a battery back up in one box.

3. The Pole Pig is designed to accomodate digital components specifically to isolate them from the remainder of the system to eliminate cross talk. It also provides, surge suppression, and when coupled with 1 and 2, it will protect ay sensitive digital component.

Hope this helps,

Barry

P.S. All that being said however, I plan on replacing my Panamax 5500 with the Rotel rather than the three Richard Gray pieces. With the extra money, I'd rather upgrade my RMB-1075 to something else. I am also pretty impartial, since I am a Panamax, Rotel and Richard Gray dealer.

thanks for explaining this. So if money was no option or each costed the same you would go with the Richard Grey?

[grit]

Richard Grey is considered to be one of the best power conditioning manufactures. If money was no object, that's what I'd do.

Since money *is* an object for me, I look at power condiditoning like I do interconnects. I don't think spending $5000 on power condiditoning makes sense when I own about $5000-$6000 in electronics. I'd be far more inclinded to spend $500-$600. That's based on what I've read in reviews and assuming I'd hear the same level of improvement.

[Nolan B]

Well after having the RGPG 600s for a week now I can say with out a doubt it has made an inprovement in both video and audio over my Belkin fp30 (which already was doing a great job). I decided to keep the richard grey and have no buyers remorse

I think this product does more for some people then other depending on the quality of their power and how many people share it. Hard to discride the difference, but my wife even noticed it!

[pbarata]

Anyone knows when European models (220 Volt, 50 Hz, Schuko sockets) will be available?
Has anyone “auditioned” them with Rotel gear?

[Audiophiliac]

The right power conditioning will increase audio and video quality. Most of the comments I get are more on the video side when comparing a cable or satellite signal before and after conditioning, or noticing a sharper/better picture on a plasma after using a conditioner.

We also sell Richard Gray products and they are pricey, but they work and work well. We had Monster until we switched to Panamax. (We got to set fire to the Monster though which was fun....just hope lightning never strikes or your house may burn down)

I would get a Panamax, but if I had a Rotel stack, I would match it and put a RG piece behind the rack or something.

[Nolan B]

The right power conditioning will increase audio and video quality. Most of the comments I get are more on the video side when comparing a cable or satellite signal before and after conditioning, or noticing a sharper/better picture on a plasma after using a conditioner.

We also sell Richard Gray products and they are pricey, but they work and work well. We had Monster until we switched to Panamax. (We got to set fire to the Monster though which was fun....just hope lightning never strikes or your house may burn down)

I would get a Panamax, but if I had a Rotel stack, I would match it and put a RG piece behind the rack or something.

so you would buy both a RG and Rotel unit? I currently have a RGPC 600s. Would you plug the RGPC 600 into the rotel unit?

[Audiophiliac]

The RGPC doesnt even have the have anything connected to it. You can just plug it in to any outlet normally nearest your gear. So, you can either plug the Rotel into the RGPC, or right into the wall with the RGPC.

Its been a while since I was trained on RG (I am a measly installer), I cant remember all the tech terms on how it works exactly, but thats the gist. More info on their website.

[IntegrateMe]

There is no such thing as a measly installer. If there were no technicians, then all the systems that we design and sell would never get put in, and many a p****d off client we'd have.

Keep up the good work.

[Audiophiliac]

I know that ^^....but I dont know the sales pitch when it comes to some things like the RG stuff. I just know it works like they say it does. You can ask me why Wilson uses X material and M material and how long the paint has to cure before they get boxed up for shipping......but I cant explain how the RGPC works. hehe.....

[Nolan B]

your right..i got a lot more then I thought when i bought the RG unit. The fact that anthing plugged into the same outlet not even plugged into the actual Richard Grey untit is amazing. All and all its one of the single greatest pieces I have bought my my home theater.

[Audiophiliac]

Well a power conditioner when you think about it should make a difference. What runs your gear? Electricity? How do preamps and amps work? By manipulating electricity. So if you have unstable or "dirty" AC line voltage, what do you get? Unstable or "dirty" sound. Makes sense that if you stabilize and "clean" your AC power, everything down the line will benefit.

Logic at its finest.

[grit]

Anyone who has (or has experience, good or bad) with RGPS, can you please comment on what changes you noticed and what conditions you have (dedicated power lines, age of the house, if you share power with another unit (apartment, etc). etc)?

[Nolan B]

Anyone who has (or has experience, good or bad) with RGPS, can you please comment on what changes you noticed and what conditions you have (dedicated power lines, age of the house, if you share power with another unit (apartment, etc). etc)?

I live in an converted warehouse which is over 100 years old, and has been converted to living space 16 years ago. I suspect i share power with the whole building and in the last 6 months did some upgrades to my power supply.

When I bought an RDV 1060 i was a little dissapointed to see that there was "mosquito noise" in the faces of people and in flat colors on my plasma. At the time i did not notice any problems with sound. I then bought a Belkin Pure AV fp 30 power conditioner and immediately noticed the things I was noticing in my video dissapear. This lead me to take the power issue more seriously.

I decided after spnding 25 k in my system I was going to take a "money no object" approach to protecting my investment and give myself a piece of mind that something like power supply wasnt going to take away from my equipment.

I went to the my dealer and asked to borrow a Richard Grey 600s. The result in my personal opinion with my personal set up made me feel that it was worth every dime. It seems no other product is used by so many other manufactures when demoing their equipment as richard grey. The amount of testimonials on their site is amazing, and unlike any other reviews I have read on power conditions which see to give a "subjective" opinion every reviewer who reviewed RG agree on two things when it came to richard grey. It is expensive, but it works, and works well.


I am no reviewer of sound quliaty and dont prented to use the correct lingo. In my own words after plugging everything into the RG unit the sound from my system seemed to have a boost, not lauder, just more full and real especially with hi res audio. Teh video quality on my 50" has deffinately cleaned up and the black levels have also improved.


There are a couple of things to consider when using a Richard grey product. Both the RG unit and your compenents need to "break in". Yes Both. It seems and confirmed by Richard Grey that your components need to get used to the clean power, and the RG unit itself needs about 24 hours of being plugged into the wall before you plug components in, and 5 days after your components plugged in before you really start to appreciate the benefit.

Richard Grey does more and is more then any other power conditioner that I have read or heard of. Ideally you want all your components plugged into 1 circuit, and then plug the RG unit in an outlet on the circuit. Amazingly anything plugged into that circuit (not just the RG unit itself) benefits from the conditioning. This makes it very convient for things like subs and projectors.

You can plug other power conditioners in Rg products, but one thing you will lose if the fact unlike all other power conditioners Richard grey products do not limit current, so its recomended that you plug in power bars rather then power conditioners.

Ill make one other comment which may make some laugh, and say im nuts. I agree with everyone who says power cables do nothing, and many test have shown so. There is 1 thing I do feel on the subject of power cables however. Yes when plugging in a high quality power cable into a regular plug on a cirtuit having the last meter or two be "high quality" after going miles and miles on a power line is dumb. I will say however, using a high quality power cables after power has been conidtion makes more sense, espeically when using long runs. RG recomends using as shot power cables as possible. I bought a fairly good power cable for my plasma and reciever, and dont see/hear night and day differences but am convinced it did something...as minor as it was it was worth the few hundred.

In the end its expensive, but works. If you buy Richard grey it will be like Buying Classe or B&W 800s..you never will never get upgradeitus on the issue of power again.

If im wrong about ANY difference it make at least i insured my equipment for 8% of its value..ths in itself is worth it.

into the below unit i plugged in the following on 1 circuit

50" Fujitsu Plasma
RSX 1067
RDV 1060
iScan HD
Xbox 360
HD Cable Box

[Boone38]

I just talked to my dealer and had him order me the Rotel 1040. Cost is a factor for me. I live in a newer home ( 2 yrs old) and draw current from the city. My power does not have to travel miles and miles.

I tried the power conditioners and it only made a marked improvment. However, living in an area with lightning all around, I am more in the need for a surge proctector. The Rotel will help in both these area's.

Earlier threads note the possitive effects of the APC units. For me this was the icing on the cake when Rotel partnered with them. I was looking at these prior. Now that they match my electronics, it was a no brainer.

Agree the the RG products are top notch. Just not with in my price range.
I have had Monster units in the past and was not that impressed. Down the road as the finances allow may look at the other units.

[Nolan B]

I just talked to my dealer and had him order me the Rotel 1040. Cost is a factor for me. I live in a newer home ( 2 yrs old) and draw current from the city. My power does not have to travel miles and miles.

I tried the power conditioners and it only made a marked improvment. However, living in an area with lightning all around, I am more in the need for a surge proctector. The Rotel will help in both these area's.

Earlier threads note the possitive effects of the APC units. For me this was the icing on the cake when Rotel partnered with them. I was looking at these prior. Now that they match my electronics, it was a no brainer.

Agree the the RG products are top notch. Just not with in my price range.
I have had Monster units in the past and was not that impressed. Down the road as the finances allow may look at the other units.

in only rotel chose to partner with Richard Grey rather then APC!

[grit]

In the end its expensive, but works. If you buy Richard grey it will be like Buying Classe or B&W 800s..you never will never get upgradeitus on the issue of power again.

If im wrong about ANY difference it make at least i insured my equipment for 8% of its value..ths in itself is worth it.

Vancouver,

Thanks a ton for your detailed results. That kind of input is very valuable for those of us considering such a purchase. I only have one question, if ya don't mind. I've read about the quality improvement RG can do for a system, but I'm not familiar with any protective qualities they offer. Can you comment on its capabilities in that capacity?

Thanks a ton!

[Nolan B]

Vancouver,

Thanks a ton for your detailed results. That kind of input is very valuable for those of us considering such a purchase. I only have one question, if ya don't mind. I've read about the quality improvement RG can do for a system, but I'm not familiar with any protective qualities they offer. Can you comment on its capabilities in that capacity?

Thanks a ton!

i could be wrong with the exact numbers and you may want to check the richard grey site, but 20,000 watts going in comes out at only 40 watts (or something like that). One thing i am surprised aout is they dont offer any gaurantee. I fyou email them and ask im sure they will respond with an answer. the other thing which is great about richard grey is their service. I have sent three emails to them and got response back from all 3 in less then 24 hours. Also on there site there is an area where you can submit all of your components and they will recomend which RG product best suites you.

[Audiophiliac]

As far as protecting devices, from what? Lightning? Power surges? I think the only components that are in real need of this are things with chips and stuff in them (which is pretty much everything these days). Like a Tivo unit, or a pre/pro. RG also sells some surge protection devices. But you can use the Rotel, or the Monster or whatever you like to protect your components. As long as you have the RG on the circuit, you will benefit from both.

I also dont recommend plugging amplifiers directly into power conditioners. Small 2 channel amps and most receivers are ok, because they dont draw enough current to matter, but plugging big power hungry amps into a conditioner rated for 15A is asking for trouble. Its like a bottleneck for the power. Makes sense. Plus amps aren't really susceptible to surges and other power issues. They just want power.... a lot of power....and they want it now. Let them eat!

[Club1820]

Vancouver, I am also thinking about the rotel 1040. Did your dealer give you a special rate or the MSRP of $499?

Thanks.

[Nolan B]

Vancouver, I am also thinking about the rotel 1040. Did your dealer give you a special rate or the MSRP of $499?

Thanks.

I got the RGPC 600s not the rotel. The rotel would be my second choice becuase to me there is Richard grey...then everything else. As far as everything else goes the Rotel is the best looking...for my setup anyway.

[Nolan B]

As far as protecting devices, from what? Lightning? Power surges? I think the only components that are in real need of this are things with chips and stuff in them (which is pretty much everything these days). Like a Tivo unit, or a pre/pro. RG also sells some surge protection devices. But you can use the Rotel, or the Monster or whatever you like to protect your components. As long as you have the RG on the circuit, you will benefit from both.

I also dont recommend plugging amplifiers directly into power conditioners. Small 2 channel amps and most receivers are ok, because they dont draw enough current to matter, but plugging big power hungry amps into a conditioner rated for 15A is asking for trouble. Its like a bottleneck for the power. Makes sense. Plus amps aren't really susceptible to surges and other power issues. They just want power.... a lot of power....and they want it now. Let them eat!

Couple of points. The problem with plugging a power conditioner into the same circuit as a richard gery product is that you dont get the best of both worlds. The reason is all other power conditioners are current limiting, so while you will have the effect of the Ricahard grey as soon as you add a different power conditioner you loose that aspect.

Your point on amps is very true for power conditioners. When it comes to richard grey since power passess passed the RG unit and not limited by going through it you can plug a power amp right into the RG unit. Mind you it does say that it is recomended to try plugging the amp directly into a wall as you said if the plug is on the same cirtuit a RG product is plugged into.

I am by no means an expert when it comes to this product, but I will say there is a lot of great info on his site..below is a link to the "system advice" portion of his site. Send in you system and components you own and see what he recomends.

http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/systemadvice/index.html

the FAQ section of the site is also better then any other power conditioner manufactuing site I have seen..

http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/faq/index.html

[Club1820]

I got the RGPC 600s not the rotel. The rotel would be my second choice becuase to me there is Richard grey...then everything else. As far as everything else goes the Rotel is the best looking...for my setup anyway.

OOOPS! I guess I misread the person posting. Sorry 'bout that Vancouver.

It was Boone38 who ordered the 1040. Boone38, special price or MSRP from your dealer?

[Boone38]

In the last 4 weeks I bought from my dealer:

B & W 804S
HTM4
Rotel 1075
Rotel 1068
RDV 1060

He gave me a great discount to buy from him. When the RC1040 came out, almost felt obligated to buy. The retail is $499.00. I would think the same discount will apply. It was well above 15%. He has been great to work with. I told him to order me one and did not have to put anything down.

I bought the 1040 based on the APC internal workings. The partnership with Rotel was the bonus.

I work in the insurance industry, in property and casualty losses. You would not believe the losses relating to surges, brown outs, and lightning strikes. Anything I can do to protect my investment will be done. The only real protection is a whole house grounding. But you will spend more then a few Richards Greys for this. We work closely with the power districts in several large cities. Your AC line is not as clean nor constant as one would think. They don't sell their own surge protection because they want too.

Also, amps are subject to surges. My team alone last year paid a large amount of cash for the replacement and repair to audio equipment including amps such as Adcom, McIntosh, Acurus, B &K, Sony, etc, etc.

Like I stated before, RG is a great unit, just out of my budget.

[Club1820]

Boone38, you spent a pretty penny recently on all your stuff so no wonder he gave you a deal. I, unfortunately bought my rotel equip. used and thus will have to pay full retail. ? But, will get one anyway.

Thanks!

[Club1820]

Also, amps are subject to surges. My team alone last year paid a large amount of cash for the replacement and repair to audio equipment including amps such as Adcom, McIntosh, Acurus, B &K, Sony, etc, etc.

But I've seen several posts here stating that amps shouldnt be connected to the power conditioner because they use too much power and would minimize the power to the other components connected to the conditioner. Thus they should be connected directly to the outlet. ???

So from an Audiophile perspective they should be connected directly to the outlet, but from a "protection and safeguard" perspective they should be connected to the conditioner. ?? Dilemma.

[Nolan B]

But I've seen several posts here stating that amps shouldnt be connected to the power conditioner because they use too much power and would minimize the power to the other components connected to the conditioner. Thus they should be connected directly to the outlet. ???

So from an Audiophile perspective they should be connected directly to the outlet, but from a "protection and safeguard" perspective they should be connected to the conditioner. ?? Dilemma.

you are getting two things mixed up i think. A power conditioner is power limiting so amps are recomended not to be plugged directly in. A surge protector (not power conditioner) is not power limiting and can protect our equipment. A Richard Grey is the only power conditioner which is not power limiting and gives you the best of both worlds.

[Club1820]

you are getting two things mixed up i think. A power conditioner is power limiting so amps are recomended not to be plugged directly in. A surge protector (not power conditioner) is not power limiting and can protect our equipment. A Richard Grey is the only power conditioner which is not power limiting and gives you the best of both worlds.

In the case of the Rotel 1040, I believe it is both. A line conditioner/surge protector. If this is correct?, then the amp should be connected directly to the outlet? I plan on getting the Rotel 1040.

thanks

[Nolan B]

In the case of the Rotel 1040, I believe it is both. A line conditioner/surge protector. If this is correct?, then the amp should be connected directly to the outlet? I plan on getting the Rotel 1040.

thanks

Usually one of the outlets on a power conditioner is designed specifically for a power amp to be plugged it. Im sure the rotel will have this option especailly since the conditioner was designed spefically for rotel. The outlet designed for power amp simply has little to no conditioning.