Richard Gray Power Company - Worth it or snake oil?

[HedgeHog]

Howdy,

Was looking at isolation transformers and recall that the local dealer ran their stuff through Richard Gray Power Company equipment. They are way expensive and not UL certified. The dealer says it makes a lot of difference but I wonder how a parallel run inductor can smooth out power and absorb surges. So anyone run any RGPC stuff? Does it work as advertized?

FYI, I run my amp and sub directly to the wall and everything else through an APC UPS. The APC clicks a lot so I think my power is not really up to snuff. Was looking at running a separate 240V/30A line and then the isolation/step-down balanced transformer.

All comments welcome...thx.

Cheers,
Hedwig

[Srrndhound]

Rather than looking at the available solutions, it might be good to sort out your priorities for the system power to better define "the problem." On the face of it, I'd say you have a logical approach installed. My system is similar: an APC to power the DVR and AppleTV, the APC protected outlets feed the low level gear, and the power amps and lights are connected to the AC directly. (Whole house MOV surge protection in the service panels.) All on one 15A circuit.

Is your APC clicking in response to loudness peaks, or seemingly at random? If random, can you correlate that with any household appliances?

How frequently does the APC trigger?
Does it last long enough to sound the backup alarm?
Do you have hum problems?
Have you measured the AC line voltage?
Is the AV system on a dedicated circuit? If not, would you consider running one?
Do you want additional surge protection, such as for the amps?

As for Richard Gray--I have no personal experience. They claim certain patents, but was not able to find any assigned to their company, or invented by Richard Gray or Dick McCarthy--not to say they aren't there, but just suspiciously inscrutible. The data sheets for the isolation step/down products are sparse--lightning protection claimed--but what are the specs? Nominal output voltage 120V, but under what load? Line and load regulation not stated. For several thousand dollars, they could provide better specs. Maybe the mystery is part of the appeal.

[style]

Hallo,

just a question: how much can be the "jump" the ac tension in Usa?

In europa is really stabil, a seller (Classeaudio, McIntosh) recommended to connect your amplifier directly to the wall!
all appliances (APC PSAudio, Isoket ..) are just a barrier to sound and are losing the dynamic amplifier.

A RGPS work very different vs. a PS audio PPP: the R.gray is the only who does not have a negative influence on the sound.
anyway as written from HedgeHog is a strange..

The dealer says it makes a lot of difference but I wonder how a parallel run inductor can smooth out power and absorb surges....

I had request info from RGPS in Europa but is not easy....(exspecially in Switzerlandd where RG is not present..)

I go with my ampli in a outlet and with the sourge/preampli in another...

Style

[HedgeHog]

Rather than looking at the available solutions, it might be good to sort out your priorities for the system power to better define "the problem." On the face of it, I'd say you have a logical approach installed. My system is similar: an APC to power the DVR and AppleTV, the APC protected outlets feed the low level gear, and the power amps and lights are connected to the AC directly. (Whole house MOV surge protection in the service panels.) All on one 15A circuit.

Is your APC clicking in response to loudness peaks, or seemingly at random? If random, can you correlate that with any household appliances?

How frequently does the APC trigger?
Does it last long enough to sound the backup alarm?
Do you have hum problems?
Have you measured the AC line voltage?
Is the AV system on a dedicated circuit? If not, would you consider running one?
Do you want additional surge protection, such as for the amps?

As for Richard Gray--I have no personal experience. They claim certain patents, but was not able to find any assigned to their company, or invented by Richard Gray or Dick McCarthy--not to say they aren't there, but just suspiciously inscrutible. The data sheets for the isolation step/down products are sparse--lightning protection claimed--but what are the specs? Nominal output voltage 120V, but under what load? Line and load regulation not stated. For several thousand dollars, they could provide better specs. Maybe the mystery is part of the appeal.

- Click is random when load suddenly increase...more LFE, sudden loud passages, etc.

- It used to beep but now mostly clicks since I've plugged amp and sub directly to the wall. Previously, I had one unit filter the low voltage components with memory + CA5200 and another unit filter the sub and components that don't store settings.

- I don't think my audio gear hums like a tube guitar amp would but the plasma and DVR surely does.

- Haven't measure line voltage w/ DMM...just the reading off the APC UPS.

- Not a dedicated circuit but I've unplugged almost everything else off it (so more or less, it is one). Planning on running a dedicated one but the choice becomes a separate 120V or a 240V one; based on whether I pursue the RGPC step-down transformer.

- Although Classe says not to worry about it, I'd like to get some line conditioner/buffer/boost device in there. So far, I can get by on one circuit but may plan to bi-amp w/ a couple of CA-M400/600. If so, I can add another circuit but that "may" lead to ground loops. So going 240V/30A and a balanced step-down transformer should provide enough juice for all the equipment...I hope.


I agree about the mystical nature of RGPC products; hence, my query for empirical info from users. My initial trigger is just to provide enough clean power for current/additional gear. And RGPC seems to be one of the few 240V/120V step-down products around.

My electrician says instead of doing one off the main panel; he'd recommend running a dedicated 100A line to the room and into a subpanel. But that's a bit too much renovation for what I had intended (I think).

What's confusing is that this brand is quite polarising...people either really love it or think it's pointless.

Cheers,
Hedwig

[HedgeHog]

Hallo,

just a question: how much can be the "jump" the ac tension in Usa?

In europa is really stabil, a seller (Classeaudio, McIntosh) recommended to connect your amplifier directly to the wall!
all appliances (APC PSAudio, Isoket ..) are just a barrier to sound and are losing the dynamic amplifier.

A RGPS work very different vs. a PS audio PPP: the R.gray is the only who does not have a negative influence on the sound.
anyway as written from HedgeHog is a strange..

Yeah, it sounds good but does it really work. They claim the parallel nature allows all current to get through since their product doesn't funnel power through. But yet manages to clean up line noise and provide buffer when called upon. Filtration by osmossis or something truly ground-breaking.

I had request info from RGPS in Europa but is not easy....(exspecially in Switzerlandd where RG is not present..)

I go with my ampli in a outlet and with the sourge/preampli in another...

Style

Since you're in Europe and use 240V, there's no product that they have that will help. But you guys should have plenty of power already. :T

-Hedwig

[Srrndhound]

My electrician says instead of doing one off the main panel; he'd recommend running a dedicated 100A line to the room and into a subpanel. But that's a bit too much renovation for what I had intended (I think).

Compare the cost of the 240 line + the stepdown transformer against the 100A panel, and the panel wins hands down, both in cost and in effectivness in giving you a stiff AC power source. IMHO.

[Alaric]

In what I think was an "average" home (mine) I got 109 ACV up to 129 ACV from my wall outlets , measured on a Fluke 73 multimeter. Time of day or appliance draw had no effect. It just wandered up and down with no discernible rhyme or reason. I use pretty cheap anti-surge power strips and it made a noticeable difference in sound quality for me.

[wxmanunr]

It sounds as if you have a ground loop, if the plasma and DVR hums. Use a balun on your cable/TV hookup to fix. Cheap.

You said you have an APC UPS. Hook the UPS up to a laptop and then use PowerChute Personal Edition to change the sensitivity of the UPS. See if that helps.

Personally, I use a similar strategy as you, but have a 20A, 8 gauge stranded wire dedicated circuit for the audio equipment. Amps in the wall plug. The rest go through a panamax thingy.

wxmanunr

- Click is random when load suddenly increase...more LFE, sudden loud passages, etc.

- It used to beep but now mostly clicks since I've plugged amp and sub directly to the wall. Previously, I had one unit filter the low voltage components with memory + CA5200 and another unit filter the sub and components that don't store settings.

- I don't think my audio gear hums like a tube guitar amp would but the plasma and DVR surely does.

- Haven't measure line voltage w/ DMM...just the reading off the APC UPS.

- Not a dedicated circuit but I've unplugged almost everything else off it (so more or less, it is one). Planning on running a dedicated one but the choice becomes a separate 120V or a 240V one; based on whether I pursue the RGPC step-down transformer.

- Although Classe says not to worry about it, I'd like to get some line conditioner/buffer/boost device in there. So far, I can get by on one circuit but may plan to bi-amp w/ a couple of CA-M400/600. If so, I can add another circuit but that "may" lead to ground loops. So going 240V/30A and a balanced step-down transformer should provide enough juice for all the equipment...I hope.


I agree about the mystical nature of RGPC products; hence, my query for empirical info from users. My initial trigger is just to provide enough clean power for current/additional gear. And RGPC seems to be one of the few 240V/120V step-down products around.

My electrician says instead of doing one off the main panel; he'd recommend running a dedicated 100A line to the room and into a subpanel. But that's a bit too much renovation for what I had intended (I think).

What's confusing is that this brand is quite polarising...people either really love it or think it's pointless.

Cheers,
Hedwig

[Srrndhound]

-I agree about the mystical nature of RGPC products; hence, my query for empirical info from users. My initial trigger is just to provide enough clean power for current/additional gear. And RGPC seems to be one of the few 240V/120V step-down products around.

Might also have a look at www.equitech.com as they also offer step-down balanced power solutions, if you are still heading in that direction.

[HedgeHog]

Might also have a look at www.equitech.com as they also offer step-down balanced power solutions, if you are still heading in that direction.

Thx...will look at them and the Torus stuff. :T

[style]

Hallo HedgeHog,

a great product for your source, plasma But not fur the power ampli is ex. the Quantum QBASE (family Nordost), Fabers box,..all wath is not filtered.

for the power ampli you don't need a filter = dynamic less: maybe the only one is the righard gray but all the other are all to waste your money.

before a purchasing you must have at home so one product andmakea test.

all the Classe product (and others brands too) have protection inside that make you feel comfortable (DC protection&others).....

style

[HedgeHog]

thx Style,

Yeah, currently I changed my CA-5200 and the JL sub to plug directly to the wall while the tv and other low voltage components go through the APC UPS. I've noticed a bit of hum/buzz since. So I've called an electrician to put in a dedicated 250v/30A and 125v/30A line to see if that helps. I kinda like the Powerhouse but wish it wasn't so huge and pricey. The next one down from RGPC is their Substation RM Pro + 1200 Custom. But the RM Pro is quite bland/ugly.

My electrician thinks putting in a balanced transformer/line conditioner at the panel is not a good idea since the run is long. He'd rather run another dedicated line to the room and put a subpanel in. I'm trying to avoid so much work. May be the best solution is to get used RGPC IsoGray stuff to try first. At least, it won't break the bank if it doesn't work as advertized.

I'll check the Nordost stuff but I really want to quite down the amps.

Cheers,
Hedwig

Hallo HedgeHog,

a great product for your source, plasma But not fur the power ampli is ex. the Quantum QBASE (family Nordost), Fabers box,..all wath is not filtered.

for the power ampli you don't need a filter = dynamic less: maybe the only one is the righard gray but all the other are all to waste your money.

before a purchasing you must have at home so one product andmakea test.

all the Classe product (and others brands too) have protection inside that make you feel comfortable (DC protection&others).....

style

[style]

Hi Hedwig,

in europa the last problem is the electricity. we have a really pure power.

I don't have a dedicat line but after talking with an electrician and asked the advantages of bringing a direct line from my panel was impressed with his answer that does not depend on dedicated line !
the point is who sells electricity users must abide by laws and precise when you have a dealer that provides electricity 230V/50Hz. with a tolerance of 3-5%...you've solved a lot.

I also have a home network only. I connected to a power amplifier while in another outlet I connected the source and the plasma.
of course is allways possible have a better line but not quality.


First you have a good power cord for the main source and preamp. the amplifier are the elements that feel less intervention of a power cable.

buy xlr cables between premapli and final power constanno a fortune are a waste of money: their effect on the plant is minimal.
a good without wires is more exaggerated than enough.

Think about the fuono a piano notes, soun not "filters"
frequencies there are "stops" from the appliances and a high-end system must be the same.

this is the diffference between a high end listing and a "normal listing.

I don't know where, what ,.. is in Usa....

Style

[ThomasW]

thx Style,

Yeah, currently I changed my CA-5200 and the JL sub to plug directly to the wall while the tv and other low voltage components go through the APC UPS. I've noticed a bit of hum/buzz since. So I've called an electrician to put in a dedicated 250v/30A and 125v/30A line to see if that helps. I kinda like the Powerhouse but wish it wasn't so huge and pricey. The next one down from RGPC is their Substation RM Pro + 1200 Custom. But the RM Pro is quite bland/ugly.

My electrician thinks putting in a balanced transformer/line conditioner at the panel is not a good idea since the run is long. He'd rather run another dedicated line to the room and put a subpanel in. I'm trying to avoid so much work. May be the best solution is to get used RGPC IsoGray stuff to try first. At least, it won't break the bank if it doesn't work as advertized.

I'll check the Nordost stuff but I really want to quite down the amps.

Cheers,
Hedwig

You're paying a lot for looks with the Richard Gray stuff.

If you want to lower the noise floor (increase common mode rejection) get one of the Equi=tech 2kVa transformers. They used to sell them mounted in a utility box, I'm not sure if that's the case now. http://www.equitech.com/products/specials.html

For $600 they're a steal. I use them for everything all front end gear and power amps.... To understand how big these trannys are the utility box is 24" long and 14.5" wide. Use one tranny for each 20 amp line



If you want to add line filters those are pretty cheap as well from the electronic surplus companies...

http://www.electronicsurplus.com/Item/3331/

[Glen B]

Seconded. Instead of using EMI/RFI line filters (which to my ears add a veil to treble and upper midrange) on each outlet, I opted to use separate smaller transformers supplying the outlets for front end gear. I've found no sonic downside to using these transformers. In fact, bass sounds deeper, and more extended on the Equi=Tech.