Rotel Audio/Video Power Conditioners

[Nolan B]

There are so many opinions and IMO lack of knowladge (including myself) when i comes to surge protection and line conditioners. I have a couple of questions about Rotels.

I recently sold my Richard Grey because it did not do what I needed. In the end I did't expect to much from it because I didnt think I had many issues relating to power. Ultimately I wanted something that protected my system, matched my system and regulated voltage (explain later). For me the Richard Grey did none of those. I cant say it didnt protect my system because nothing happened while owning it, but I never had a garauntee because unlike the Rotel the RG didnt offer one.

In the end I traded my RG for a Rotel RLC 1040 to my dealer as straight up trade. Cash wise my dealer got a better deal, but product wise I think I got an better deal. Could I have sold the RG for more then the value of the 1040 and walked away with some cash? Sure, but my dealer has treated me well in the past and in the end we both walked away feeling we got what was in our own best interest. I feel good.


I do have two questions thou...perhaps someone can chime in and give their opinion.

1.) The Automatic Voltage Regulation range setting which lets you set it from "narrow", "normal" or "wide" doesnt give me enough info to choose which is best of me. I want the voltage to ouput at 120 as constant as possible so my cable box doesnt reset: a problem caused by fluctions in the voltage according to my cable company. If I set it to "narrow" every 5 min the 1040 clicks when it does a line trim/boost. The click is too noticable. When I set it to normal it never clicks. My question is if I set it normal will it I basically negating the ouput of a near 120v?


2.) I realize that you dont need to plug your DVD into the "DVD" power input, but what I want to know is if there is any science behind the "analog" power input VS the "digital inputs" power inputs. Will it make ANY difference if plug my Plasma into the "TV" power input vs the "Monitor" power input?


Other then that it looks better then the RG and looks KILLER in my B&O AV rack.

[soundhound]

Sounds like your in an area where the power is pretty crude.
Without knowing the specifics of your conditioner it sounds like the answer to #1 is yes, and #2 would be the digital may be held to a "tighter tolerance" than the analog as far as when it triggers (protects).
Most "conditioners" are passive, as they won't maintain a constant voltage. They will clamp spikes but really won't deal with sags other than to "actively" shut the power off momentarilly to protect inductive loads.
If it were me, and you have some good $$$$ wrapped up in gear, I would look at APC .
They make HT capable UPS's which will actively maintain constant voltage (via battery) in the form of a sine wave.
They are to power what SVS is to subs.
I have dealt with them for years from single phase to hold up a desktop pc, to 3 phase which hold up a complete IT closet.
A descent sized set up to run all your goodies may cost 2K +/- but, with 10K plus in
gear, its not a bad investment.
I believe they make black to "blend" with todays modern electronics.

[Nolan B]

Sounds like your in an area where the power is pretty crude.
Without knowing the specifics of your conditioner it sounds like the answer to #1 is yes, and #2 would be the digital may be held to a "tighter tolerance" than the analog as far as when it triggers (protects).
Most "conditioners" are passive, as they won't maintain a constant voltage. They will clamp spikes but really won't deal with sags other than to "actively" shut the power off momentarilly to protect inductive loads.
If it were me, and you have some good $$$$ wrapped up in gear, I would look at APC .
They make HT capable UPS's which will actively maintain constant voltage (via battery) in the form of a sine wave.
They are to power what SVS is to subs.
I have dealt with them for years from single phase to hold up a desktop pc, to 3 phase which hold up a complete IT closet.
A descent sized set up to run all your goodies may cost 2K +/- but, with 10K plus in
gear, its not a bad investment.
I believe they make black to "blend" with todays modern electronics.

thanks for the advice. The Rotel units are APC which is what I now have. I do not have themodel with the battery in it however as it would not fit in my current rack.

[Kevin D]

The range settings set how much is an acceptable range and how close you stay to 120v. You unit wasn't shutting off at the narrow setting, so your voltages are between 100-132. They are fluctuating enough to keep the unit working to keep it +/- 5% to 120v (so your voltage fluctuates between 100-114 or 127-132). If the voltage is between 115-126, the 1040 isn't going to do anything.

Setting it to normal lets the voltage drift from 109-132 without doing anything. It would click (and not turn off) with voltage between 97-108 and 133-139. Anything above or below that and the unit will shut off.

How often was your cable box resetting? If it wasn't as often as the 1040 clicks on narrow, you will probably see some bigger voltage drops if you keep watching it. Using the normal mode with voltage from 109-132 should not effect 99.9% of equipment out there. I would think that either normal or narrow will do the same for the cable box, with normal being less annoying.

I'm glad I got the 1080 with the battery. Every once in a while on the weekend I'll see my voltage get as low at 90 and as high as 150! If you think the regulating clicks are bad, you should see the 1080 switch to battery!

Kevin D.

[Gummo]

I have a RLC1040 on order, looking forward to see how this works out.

[Nolan B]

How often was your cable box resetting? If it wasn't as often as the 1040 clicks on narrow, you will probably see some bigger voltage drops if you keep watching it. Using the normal mode with voltage from 109-132 should not effect 99.9% of equipment out there. I would think that either normal or narrow will do the same for the cable box, with normal being less annoying.

thnks Kev,

The cable box would reset 2 or 3 times a week.

I have it on normal now. I read most US electronics are built to be able to accept 108 as the lowest so 109 is good and if I leave it there then all should be good.

One other small anoying think which I am a little confused about. There is a small piece of dust/paper on the inside of the display. Its anoying me, but i dont hink its worth unhooking and getting a new one. i assume there is no easy way tto remove the display ot at least the first layer of plastic?

[Kevin D]

No easy way I know of. I had a moth die between the plastic and LCD display clock on my oven and its been driving me nuts.

On the 1080 the whole front pulls off to allow access to the batteries, so it would have been easy on that one.

Kevin D.

[joetama]

If the Rotel disassembles anything like it's APC brother it is a PITA to take apart.

Looks easy, but isn't.

If you want a constant 120 volts I only know of a few products that do that. Off the top of my head the PS Audio power conditions and the Monster Voltage Regulator. Both aren't going to come cheap and the Monster only does voltage. (Plus it's Monster :roll

As to the "Digital" "Analog" "Video" "High Current". In the APC all of the plugs in the digital are wired together through one filter and all of the plugs on the analog are wired together through a second parallel filter same for video. The high current plugs are wired seperatly a more crude filter block, probably to keep the current response as quick as possible. I am guessing they band these plugs together to keep the digital noise from bleeding to the analog units and video noise from bleeding into everything else.

[Nolan B]

If the Rotel disassembles anything like it's APC brother it is a PITA to take apart.

Looks easy, but isn't.

If you want a constant 120 volts I only know of a few products that do that. Off the top of my head the PS Audio power conditions and the Monster Voltage Regulator. Both aren't going to come cheap and the Monster only does voltage. (Plus it's Monster :roll

As to the "Digital" "Analog" "Video" "High Current". In the APC all of the plugs in the digital are wired together through one filter and all of the plugs on the analog are wired together through a second parallel filter same for video. The high current plugs are wired seperatly a more crude filter block, probably to keep the current response as quick as possible. I am guessing they band these plugs together to keep the digital noise from bleeding to the analog units and video noise from bleeding into everything else.

thanks. I wish they would give a more detailed description in the manual. Like what they believe the difference is between a TV (i assume they mean CRT) and a monitor. My 50" plasma sucks more juice then my amp and it would make sense to me that a better discription be made for what exactly to do.

[joetama]

thanks. I wish they would give a more detailed description in the manual. Like what they believe the difference is between a TV (i assume they mean CRT) and a monitor. My 50" plasma sucks more juice then my amp and it would make sense to me that a better discription be made for what exactly to do.

It should be more discriptive. I've moved a few things around since figuring that oult.

One other thing is I doubt your 50" plasma has much surge current except for when powering it on. An amplifier on the other hand different story.

[soundhound]

thnks Kev,

I read most US electronics are built to be able to accept 108 as the lowest so 109 is good and if I leave it there then all should be good.

That is true (spec'd voltage +/- 10%), but, overvoltage is preffered to lower voltage.
It can shorten the life of big inductive loads such as amplifiers. Depending on design, processors and "smart" components can show unique symptoms.

[Nolan B]

That is true (spec'd voltage +/- 10%), but, overvoltage is preffered to lower voltage.
It can shorten the life of big inductive loads such as amplifiers. Depending on design, processors and "smart" components can show unique symptoms.

Good to know.

Well i have the 1040 set to "normal" which is +/- 10% and it hasnt needed to boost or trim once.

[hifiguymi]

It should be more discriptive. I've moved a few things around since figuring that oult.

One other thing is I doubt your 50" plasma has much surge current except for when powering it on. An amplifier on the other hand different story.

That's not the case with plasmas. The amount of current needed fluctuates greatly depending on how bright or dark the current screen is. LCDs don't do that anywhere near what plasmas do. I've watched the current draw indicator on both the RLC-1040 and a couple of Panamax units when they have plasma TV plugged into them. It changes drastically, and sometimes very quickly, with 50", and especially 60", plasmas.

Eric

[joetama]

That's not the case with plasmas. The amount of current needed fluctuates greatly depending on how bright or dark the current screen is. LCDs don't do that anywhere near what plasmas do. I've watched the current draw indicator on both the RLC-1040 and a couple of Panamax units when they have plasma TV plugged into them. It changes drastically, and sometimes very quickly, with 50", and especially 60", plasmas.

Eric

How many amp surge demand are we talking? A few amps? 20 - 30 Amps?

I'd be willing to bet that a large amplifier under demand is going to have a more adverse affect if it is starved of power. But, I could be wrong.

[hifiguymi]

How many amp surge demand are we talking? A few amps? 20 - 30 Amps?

I'd be willing to bet that a large amplifier under demand is going to have a more adverse affect if it is starved of power. But, I could be wrong.

With a 50" Pioneer Elite TV (which are some of the most efficient plasma TVs on the market) the current swings are about 4 to 5 amps. With a 60" it's about 6 to 7 amps. That is quite a bit. Most power amps don't do much more than that unless they are big amps at higher volumes. Certainly ever system is different so some amps will be more than that. I'm speaking generally in my experience. So if you but both on the same circuit, and the same line conditioner, that can turn out to be a big current swing at one time. I personally was surprised at how big the current swings were on those TV's.

Eric

[joetama]

Wow that is a lot of current.

I never realized the plasmas ate that much power.

[hifiguymi]

Wow that is a lot of current.

I never realized the plasmas ate that much power.

Remember that is not a constant draw. Since each pixel is "charged" individually it takes a lot of current to go from a dark image or movie scene to a bright one. All of those pixels require some current to to light them up at the same time. As you can tell, the power supply in the TV has to very good to handle that. That is one of the reasons why inexpensive plasmas look so bad. They can't set the idling luminance on each pixel low enough to get a deep black and then fire it up to get a "white" white in short order. They keep each pixel more "on" so they can get a bright picture when needed. It consumers more energy and hurts performance at the same time. There are other factors of course, but that is one of the things Pioneer as figured out how to do and it adds to the cost of the TV.

Eric

[Nolan B]

I was watching hockey last night on my 50" and the swing was 3-4 amps from commercial to game. Because there is so much white due to the ice it draws a lot of power.


this is kinda why I was wondering if I should plug the plasma into the "Tv" jack of "digital" jack. The digital jack says "monitor". I wonder is thats more meant for a computer monitor or if infact it was meant for the large draw and spikes of a 50"+ plasma.

[hifiguymi]

I always plug TVs into the TV outlet. I don't know for sure, but I would bet your TV will work in either. I don't really know if there is a current limit to the ones labeled "digital filter". That would be worth an e-mail to tech support. I'll send one and let you know what they said.

Eric

[Nolan B]

Unfortunately my cable box reset issue has returned even when using the 1040. I had the 1040 set to normal so I am little stumped and thought one of three things could be happening.

1.) The cable box settings resets at votlages less then +/-10% of 120 volts.
2.) the 1040 is not working 100% and even when set to "normal" it alows votlage drops great then +/-10%
3.) Voltage fluctuations is not what is causing the cable box to reset.


For "fun" i set the 1040 to "narrow" and watched the Vin and Vout to see what it would read when the "boost" or "trim" would kick in and here is wht I noticed.

The 1040 clicked and the "boost" light flicked on and off pretty quick. The display however only showed the Vin stay at 119 V and the Vout jumped up to 125V. Why would this be? Wouldnt the "boost" light come on when the Vin is less the 5%, shouldnt the Vin have read 114V in order to trigger the line boost?

[Nolan B]

does anyone know if its not good to have an amp (or any component) hooked up to a switched outlet? For some reason it doesnt seem ideal or natural to turn an electronic piece on and off by cutting the power to it. I just assumed the trigger or on/off button would be "healthier" for the component because thats what they were designed for.

I want to hook up my fans to the switched outlet on the 1040 so I can have them go on and off automaticaly with the DC trigger, but that switchd outlet is also the filter my amp is plugged into. Having this setup would cause my amp to turn on and off by cutting the power.

[Nolan B]

^^^i just set up my fans and amp as discribed above. Id still appreciate any feedback however on wether its cool to have your amp turn on and off through a switched outlet.

[mjb]

does anyone know if its not good to have an amp (or any component) hooked up to a switched outlet?

IMO, a switched outlet (or not) makes no difference.

For some reason it doesnt seem ideal or natural to turn an electronic piece on and off by cutting the power to it.

How else can you turn it off?

I just assumed the trigger or on/off button would be "healthier" for the component because thats what they were designed for.

The trigger voltage drives a relay, the relay cuts the power. No different to using a switch.
I know some people like to leave their gear on 24/7, I don't! The trigger system makes is easier to switch everything from one device.

[Nolan B]

IMO, a switched outlet (or not) makes no difference.How else can you turn it off?The trigger voltage drives a relay, the relay cuts the power. No different to using a switch.
I know some people like to leave their gear on 24/7, I don't! The trigger system makes is easier to switch everything from one device.

thanks..i wasnt actually asking about the 12v trigger...I was asking about the switched outlet on the RLC 1040. Turning off the amp completely by litterally cutting the power going to it.

[hifiguymi]

With Rotel if you turn their amps off from the front panel it's the same as cutting power to it. Using the trigger is almost the same thing except there are a couple of relays that stay powered up and the LED stays on.

Eric

[Nolan B]

I always plug TVs into the TV outlet. I don't know for sure, but I would bet your TV will work in either. I don't really know if there is a current limit to the ones labeled "digital filter". That would be worth an e-mail to tech support. I'll send one and let you know what they said.

Eric

Hey Eric,
Did you ever get a response to your email to tech support? I am even more interested since I have preordered a new 60" Kuro. It will have a huge draw of power, even more then my am or sub im sure. I am wondering if the "monitor" input is best to use, or the "TV" input which actually looks like its more meant for CRT analog TVs (not sure of the draw) or plug it into one of the high current amp inputs which I am leaning towards.

[hifiguymi]

I don't remember if I ever sent it. If I did I don't remember what the answer was. I'll check on Monday and let you know.

Eric

[yanies]

Rlc1040

I have a RLC1040 on order, looking forward to see how this works out.

I am waiting for mine RLC1040 too.

I expect it this week

[WI Rotel]

Wow that is a lot of current.

I never realized the plasmas ate that much power.

To get an idea how much juice a plasma consumes just wave your hand in front of the screen after its been running a while, the amount of heat that a plasma radiates is astonishing. In fact the greenees have a low scale campaign to have consumers buy LCD's instead of plasmas. LCD are very power efficient. The only "problem" I have with my elite is that it can be quite "buzzy". However, I can live with a little buzz and more electricity to enjoy unparalleled video. LCD's pale to KURO plasmas by quite a bit.

[Nolan B]

I don't remember if I ever sent it. If I did I don't remember what the answer was. I'll check on Monday and let you know.

Eric

Anyone get back to you Eric?

[hifiguymi]

Anyone get back to you Eric?

The reply I received said a plasma or LCD should be plugged into the monitor outlet and a CRT set should be plugged into the TV outlet. The filters on the those outlets are slightly different and that is what you should do.

Eric

[Nolan B]

ok....but I still think the large power draw and fluctuations seperates the "monitor" from all oter digital devices. I guess ill do it that way and see.

[Ferres]

CRT's are known to be more sensitive to the effects of EM. This could be part of their consideration.

[WI Rotel]

CRT's are known to be more sensitive to the effects of EM. This could be part of their consideration.

Only CRT's are affected by speaker magnets, remmember a CRT is an "electron gun" which moves an electrical current across the screen guided by magnets, ergo, magnetic fields close to the "tube" will affect the "beam" path.