HT_ADDICT: How long ago did you buy your RMB-1095?

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  • BKSinAZ
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2003
    • 107

    HT_ADDICT: How long ago did you buy your RMB-1095?

    read my last post in this thread please. Thanks
  • Andrew Pratt
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 16507

    #2
    I don't have the 1095....I have the 1075. Why do you ask?




    Comment

    • BKSinAZ
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2003
      • 107

      #3
      Sorry, but I thought I read a review where you were having a hum or buzz through the 1095. My apologies to you. After rechecking, it was HT_Addict. But now that I got your attention...would you recommend the 1095?

      Comment

      • Andrew Pratt
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Aug 2000
        • 16507

        #4
        Would I recomend the 1095? Well honestly that's not an easy question to answer. Normally with most other Rotel products it would be an easy question to say yes to knowing that you'd be getting a great sounding product at a very reasonable cost. That's also true with the 1095 power amplifer...with the following cavet... Some people have reported a grounding problem with the 1095 that causes a hum that can't be resolved using the tradional techniques which points to the grounding topology used in the 1095 being somewhat more sensetive to the ground. Not everyone has this problem though so what I'd suggest is if you have a good working relationship with your dealer the sound quality of the 1095 warrants an audition with the understanding that if you hear a grounding hum return it as you likely can't resolve it. I do know Rotel is working on trying to fix the problem but as of yet I haven't been told its being resolved.




        Comment

        • ht_addict
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2002
          • 508

          #5
          Bksinaz, even though I do get the hum and have resolved the issue by using a TV coax cable run from my Yamaha to surge protector I would most definetly recommend this piece. Just let your dealer know that you have heard of this issue and that if it arises in your setup you want to be able to return it.

          Andrew, you say you know Rotel is working on this issue then why when I contact tech support they tell me the issue doesn't exist? I've read of some people swapping out their units for newer ones and not having this problem. If thats all it takes why doesn't Rotel swap units with those of us having the issue?

          ht_addict

          Comment

          • Andrew Pratt
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Aug 2000
            • 16507

            #6
            HT-A I'm not really sure what's going on with the 1095 at rotel. I've heard conflicting stories from people here that have called them and what I was once told. I do know they were looking into it and trying to replicate it in their shops so perhaps they weren't able to do so in which case the offical stance is it normally works fine...that's a guess though as I really know much more then you guys on this one (and I have asked a few times about it)




            Comment

            • BKSinAZ
              Senior Member
              • Feb 2003
              • 107

              #7
              HT_ADDICT........is your hum problem compleatly fixed? Can you hear the hum still or did you just lower the hum level? When did you buy the 1095 and when you bought it, did you buy it brand new? Seeing that as I will pick one up soon (audio shop was out of stock today) I would like to have a one on one and talk with you before my purchase. If you like, I use MSN messenger which has the function to go voice to voice. Let me know if this is acceptable. My email address is BKSinAZ@yahoo.com

              Comment

              • Aussie Geoff
                Super Senior Member
                • Oct 2003
                • 1914

                #8
                Hi,

                My Australian Rotel spies tell me that Rotel is progressively introducing a ground plane change in all three of their balanced input amplifiers (RB-1080, RB-1090 and RMB-1095) to address issues experienced by a small percentage of their customers. This different grounding scheme (also used in Bystons etc) has a much lower susceptibility to noise on the mains ground line or active pins. In the case of the RB-1080 the change was done with a running change to the model that included the excellent clear covered WBT binding posts and a number of component changes internally. I have the new RB-1080 and it cured a previously intractable problem that my old RB-1080 had with ground noise that only removing the earth pin would fix before. I am not sure as to the timing of shipping of the new 1095 and 1090 to the USA but it wouldn’t surprise me to see these also include the new WBT posts and ground plane change in the latest shipments over the last 4-6 weeks.

                So, for most people this is academic, since any hum they have is a normal ground loop hum from the cable box, satellite antenna etc and fixed by standard measures of antenna isolators etc. However for a few customers (some on this forum) with the mains noise - it will take a lot of pain away, hence Rotel introducing the change (in it’s usual quiet fashion!)

                So assuming you are not getting some super discount deal, if in doubt - get the new model with the clear posts. You may well still get initial hum (since this is an earthed amplifier however any hum you get will then be (almost certainly) ground hum (just waiting for the first 3 pin device in your HT to escape and hum happily away!) and easily fixed with grounding on your cable box and / or antenna line isolators.

                If you are getting a super special end of year run-out deal with the old model RMB-1095 then make sure that your dealer has a returns policy for the (very small) chance that you have a mains noise problem.

                NB: The easy test for mains noise vs. ground loop is to disconnect the RCA or Balanced inputs from the 1095 (or 1090 or 1080), leave it plugged in to the mains and the speakers. If you get hum / hiss you have a mains / ground noise problem that won't go away with normal measures since it isn't coming in from the inputs to some other device down into the amp, its in the actual mains itself. In my experience only a cheater plug (not desirable long term) OR the updated ground plane in the very latest models will fix this. If you don't get noise / hum with no input but the hum comes as soon as you connect the inputs, then you have a “standard” ground loop problem and can diagnose as normal with disconnecting all inputs to your receiver / pre-pro and adding one at a time until you find the culprit (usually Cable and or Satellite and or TV antenna). I need to emphasise that the new ground plane system will not help with a tradtional ground loop hum problem since it is nothing to do with the amplifer, it is the amplifier's earth allowing an existing problem to reveal itself.

                Either way, listen before you by – you will then know the sound that you are getting and can be sure that the 1095 is for you. The 1095 is a great amp much praised by reviewers (not “the best” there is but very very good) and you will not go wrong with the sound / value , If you need the power and control of the 1095, then you need to spend a lot more to beat it’s sound quality.

                Regards

                Geoff

                Comment

                • ht_addict
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2002
                  • 508

                  #9
                  Originally posted by BKSinAZ
                  HT_ADDICT........is your hum problem compleatly fixed? Can you hear the hum still or did you just lower the hum level? When did you buy the 1095 and when you bought it, did you buy it brand new? Seeing that as I will pick one up soon (audio shop was out of stock today) I would like to have a one on one and talk with you before my purchase. If you like, I use MSN messenger which has the function to go voice to voice. Let me know if this is acceptable. My email address is BKSinAZ@yahoo.com
                  BKSinAZ, demo unit that I was able to pickup for $1550CDN/$1100US with a 4yr extended warranty(9yrs total). Excellent bargain. At the time I didn' know about the hum issue. Now my hum is not caused by the cable box like some others, it occurs when:

                  1. I use a coax connection from my pre/pro to DVD player(no hum with optical)
                  2. Hookup my sub(Paradigm PW2100)

                  Otherwise all I get is very very low level hum that can only be heard with your ear at the speakers.

                  To remove the hum I run a TV coax cable from the back of my Pre/pro FM hookup to the TV coax input on my Monster HTS1000mkII surge protector. The 1095 is an excellent piece of equipment that shouldn't be overlooked just because of the hum. Make sure you let your dealer know about this issue and if it happens to you he'll let you return it. What kind of pre/pro will you be using with it? If it has a FM cable hookup and you get the hum try my solution to see if it solves it. Hope this helps.

                  ht_addict

                  Comment

                  • dbart
                    Member
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 39

                    #10
                    My 1095 is still under warranty and it does have the mains hum as described. Will Rotel now fix/replace units such as mine knowing now that the newer ground plane is now avaliable?

                    Comment

                    • TonyL
                      Junior Member
                      • Dec 2003
                      • 18

                      #11
                      I purchased my 1095 at the end of December 2003. I noticed the ground loop hum and traced it to my cable TV.

                      Fortunately I was able to eliminate the problem by using a Calrad DC Ground Blocker & Isolation Transformer (http://www.calrad.com/calrad/cat-59page3.html)


                      I ordered it from www.cablesandconnectors.com for $12.99 shipped.

                      Comment

                      • Aussie Geoff
                        Super Senior Member
                        • Oct 2003
                        • 1914

                        #12
                        dbart,

                        Re your 1095 - 99% of hum problems with it are traditional ground loops that will happen with ANY 3 pin grounded amplifier when you first introduce it to the system. Normally it is a difference in the level of earth from one part of the house (or external to the house to the other) coming in on the signal from you cable, your satellite dish or (in some cases) your TV or FM antenna). This slightly higher ground level is not a problem (ground voltage varies all over the earth and even throughout your house sometimes. however if it enters your receiver / processor or even VCR and then seeks a ground to escape it can travel down the RCA leads (through several components) into the first 3 pin grounded item it can find (usually a new major Amp or Sub-woofer with a full 3 pin ground. As it travels down the RCA leads into the amp or sub-woofer you then get a hum from the small 60 Hz or 50 Hz voltage. Now as covered here.

                        When you feel like it, try disconnecting all of the inputs from your Receiver. Add them back one at a time and you'll find the source (remember it could be several removed such as a VCR, into a Cable box into the Processor). If the Hum goes away when everything is disconnected then there are some good posts on this forum as to how to get rid of the hum. Summarised:
                        • If it's your cable get the cable company back to fix the grounding or put in a ground isolator
                        • If it's your aerial - get an line isolator
                        • If it's your satellite - get a ground loop breaker.


                        However there are apparently rare cases where the some RMB-1095 are picking up mains noise and hum independently from ANY input. If you still get a hum into your speakers even when you remove the RCA inputs from the RMB-1095 and it is only connected to the speakers - then you probably have mains noise related hum (which will be fixed for many people through the latest updated ground plane on the amplifiers). If you have this hum, you'll probably find the same RMB-1095 amplifier in the house next door is perfect - it may even be prefect in a different circuit of the same house - it all depends. Here you have a choice - you can try the 3 to 2 pin plug adaptor (your call and you should ONLY do this once you have had an electrician check the ground for no leakage current. Or you can go to your dealer and try for one of the latest RMB-1095 and see if this makes the problem go away. Either way I’d advise an electrician first to do a check – there are people on this and other forums whose houses have voltage drops on their circuits due to overload, wiring problems etc, noisy mains earth connections, live current running in the earth etc, where the amplifier is picking up a real problem that you should get fixed!

                        Key point - 99% of the time you have hum with the RMB-1095, RB-1090 or RB-1080 it is not the amplifier it is a ground loop hum that ANY grounded amplifier in its place will pick up and a new amp will not help at all since the ground current will always flow too it as long as it is there.. You need to solve this at the source OR use the 3 to 2 pin plug adaptor. Only if it is the mains noise do you need to consider talking to your dealer etc re a replacement amp.

                        It's also worth understanding that Rotel's perspective on this has been (as far as I can tell from others) that the underlying problem is almost certainly in the mains in your house (true) rather than a fault in the amplifier. IE the same amp in another locaiton would work fine. They (Rotel) are changing the ground plane to reduce the incidence of the problem for some people with noisy mains / earths - rather than fix a fault (a bit like a new model year update in a car). So if your amp is older but under warrantee, I would not have much hope of a replacement and you may need to consider a 3 to 2 pin plug (as many members of Club Rotel and other forums have done).

                        (Forgive me if you have found this info before and tried this all - its just that it is too easy to think "hum = amplifier problem" when in most cases it is not and you don’t want to put yourself through all the trouble of an amplifier swap unless it is really needed... I’m also writing this to help others who may have the same issue and who are reading this post “cold” in the future.)

                        Geoff Costello

                        Comment

                        • skipm
                          Senior Member
                          • Jun 2003
                          • 198

                          #13
                          Originally posted by TonyL
                          I purchased my 1095 at the end of December 2003. I noticed the ground loop hum and traced it to my cable TV.

                          Fortunately I was able to eliminate the problem by using a Calrad DC Ground Blocker & Isolation Transformer (http://www.calrad.com/calrad/cat-59page3.html)


                          I ordered it from www.cablesandconnectors.com for $12.99 shipped.
                          Tony-

                          Thanx for the heads up on the Calrad DC Ground Blocker & Isolation Transformer. About six months ago I had to re-arrange my equipment rack and since then I've had a nasty ground loop hum coming through my DVD player. It is the only component I have that has a 3-prong power cable. I tried all the usual fixes such as getting the cable company to come out to make sure their coax was correctly grounded, cheater plugs, routing the power cords separate from the other cables, ferrite cores, plugging everything into the same circuit, plugging everything into different circuits, you name it and I tried it.

                          The hum wasn't too audible at normal listening levels but you could really hear it during quiet passages and it was driving me nuts. I had also acquired a new sub around the same time but I could never use it because as soon as I turned it on the hum coming through it was unbearable. It too had a 3-prong power cable so I've had to use my old sub all this time.

                          I saw your post so I figured what the heck and ordered one. It arrived today so I connected it up, turned on my DVD player and heard nothing but the sound of silence. Incredible! The next test was to see if it degraded my cable video signal in any way. I have a Motorola 5100 HD cable box and I watch SD through s-video and HD through component. I’ve been watching both over the last couple of hours and I see no problems with the video signal on either input. I haven’t removed the cheater plugs yet from the DVD player and the sub but that’s my next test.

                          I would recommend this device to anyone who is suffering from ground loop hum. I tried all the usual stuff and had no luck until now. Thanx again Tony for the tip. You’ve made my day.

                          -Skip

                          Comment

                          • dbart
                            Member
                            • Jan 2003
                            • 39

                            #14
                            Geoff,

                            I do get the hum with only the speakers attached while using a cheater 3-2 prong plug. All other RCA connections are disconnected.

                            This is my second 1095. It was replaced about 2 years ago. I have given up as my dealer and Rotel fail to help. Truly I don't know what gives.

                            This post brings up old wounds, and I thought that someone my be able to help.

                            Comment

                            • TonyL
                              Junior Member
                              • Dec 2003
                              • 18

                              #15
                              Skip,

                              Your welcome. This forum has been a great help to me, glad I was able to reciprocate.

                              Tony L

                              Comment

                              • Aussie Geoff
                                Super Senior Member
                                • Oct 2003
                                • 1914

                                #16
                                Dbart,

                                Thanks for the extra information. Getting the hum with no inputs and a 3 to 2 pin cheater plug elminates ALL ground loop issues. I can understand your frustration - there are a few people who have had similar problems. And I (and the others posting) are trying to help.

                                Now, we are down to 2 likely options: A faulty RB-1095 OR a an unusal mains noise in your house. There are a number of posts 1 - 2 years ago on other forums suggesting there are a batch of RB-1095 that did develop a hum. To test for this is relatively easy - take the RB-1095 to another house (or location) - preferably not in the same street as yours - Plug it in to some speakers (any will do) with no RCA input and see if you still get the hum - if you do you almost certainly have a faulty amp which Rotel will repair or replace since they will be able to reproduce the hum..

                                Equally if there is no hum - then you have an interaction happening with your mains current (usually some kind of imbalance or noise on the mains) and the RB-1095 - in which case you can try some mains filters (they have worked for some RB-1095 owners) or sell the Rb-1095 and get a different brand (like Jimmy58 on this forum).

                                Geoff Costello

                                Comment

                                • LEVESQUE
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Oct 2002
                                  • 344

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by dbart
                                  I do get the hum with only the speakers attached while using a cheater 3-2 prong plug. All other RCA connections are disconnected.

                                  This is my second 1095. It was replaced about 2 years ago. I have given up as my dealer and Rotel fail to help. Truly I don't know what gives.

                                  This post brings up old wounds, and I thought that someone my be able to help.
                                  Same thing here. I used the RMB-1095 in 3 different houses, and in my last one, brand new houses with a dedicated HT, ít's still humming with only the speakers on.

                                  After countless E-Mails with my dealer and Rotel, I''m stuck in the loop "call your dealer - call Rotel - never heard of any problems with the 1095 - - call your dealer - never heard of any problems with the 1095 - calL Rotel..." ad nauseam....

                                  Andrew. Did you receive my E-mail?

                                  And they call this customer services... Would it be so much a problem to just replace the amp for a new 1095?
                                  To spend more $$$ on electronics without first addressing room acoustics is fruitless IMO.

                                  Comment

                                  • Aussie Geoff
                                    Super Senior Member
                                    • Oct 2003
                                    • 1914

                                    #18
                                    Levesque and Dbart,

                                    My view is that if your RMB-1095 with no inputs and no ground is stilll humming at a number of locations (ie different mains suppliers) it is faulty (there are several powersupply faults that can cause this such as a mains ripple leaking through on the DC supply). You should insist that Rotel repair or replace this under warrantee. There should be no ifs or buts from Rotel - they should take it into their service shop and fix it.

                                    However they get so many hum's that are really ground loops - It is important that you let them know that it hums in the curcumstances you mention where a ground loop is impossible (that way they should listen!).

                                    Geoff Costello

                                    Comment

                                    • dbart
                                      Member
                                      • Jan 2003
                                      • 39

                                      #19
                                      Thanks Geoff. I will try what you have suggested. Thank you for your help in this matter.

                                      Comment

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