RA-1062 or RA-1070 for B&W 703 ?

[jim777]

I consider buying B&W speakers and a Rotel integrated. If I go for the 703 or the 704, should I choose the RA-1062 or the stronger RA-1070 (but that doesn't seem to be as appreciated as the 1062). Thanks!

[Aussie Geoff]

Jim777,

If you possibly can "stretch" get the RB-1080, especially for the B&W 703s - it just has way more control than the RB-1070 etc.

Otherwise it depends on what you have as a pre-amp. The RA-1062 is integrated, while the RB-1070 is an amp only and needs a pre-amp like the RC-1070. So the price difference is significant if you need the pre-amp as well. If budget is an issue - consider the RA-1062 now with the B&W 703 (works well) and then save hard to upgrade to the RC-1090 pre-amp and RB-1080 amp for a really noticable "step up" to keep that upgraditus under control!

Geoff

[jim777]

Thanks Geoff, but does the extra power of the RB-1080 make such a difference even if I don't have to play the RA-1062 with the volume knob higher than 12 o'clock? I guess that it's the bigger damping factor (1000 instead of 150) that makes the difference at even modest volumes? Thanks again!

[Aussie Geoff]

Jim777,

The difficult part of the load of most B&W speakers (indeed most bass reflex speaker) is the low point in the impedance just above the box/reflex resonance peaks in the bass - around 100 - 200Hz. This is doubly complex for 3 way speakers that then have a crossover at around 350 or 400 Hz. You get both a large impedance drop, mixed with a high inductance / phase angle for the amplifier to drive. So 50W into 8 ohm can become 150W into 3 Ohms to maintain the same output. This "current sucking effect" is why high power amplifiers often give a greater sense of control over harder to drive speakers even at low volumes. Many lesser amps just don’t double the power and current as the impedance halves, or can't adequately drive inductive loads. The other alternative used by some is bi-amping, where a separate amplifier is used for the bass, so that any "current sucking" effect doesn't impact the rest of the frequency spectrum.

All this is in turn why many find the mid bass cleans up remarkably as you add higher quality or high power amplified to the higher end B&W speakers.

Now the 700 series is made to be driven by quality receivers - with the 703 being nice sounding on a good 100W receiver. However it really "comes alive" on a quality amp... I’ve compared the 703 on a Rotel 1056 and the 1080 and the 1080 (for my ears) just make all the difference on music.

Listen if you can - most people hear it and want the power. A few can't hear a worthwhile difference and are happy with the receiver or lower end amplifiers - as everyone's listening experience is different.

Geoff

[miket]

I'm upgrading currently to Rotel 10 series and I have to agree with Geoff.
The rc1070 with rb1070 is noticeably different at mid volumes (12 oclock) to the rc1090 and rb1080. Another idea is to get now rc1070 with the rb1070, save up and in future get a second rb1070 to bi-amp. You'll find clearer voicing and deeper soundstage with the bi-amp option. The rc1090 is better than the rc1070, i'm still tring to convince myself is 2X price worth the 20% improvement .... miket

[jim777]

Thanks guys for your excellent help. It helps me make my mind; I don't want to have something like 50 options when I go to my dealer

I already have listened to a RA1062 (w/RCD1072) with a CM4 and it sounded very good. Alot better than with the 603 S3; I'm sure that I won't buy 600's. I didn't need to play the RA1062 at more than 40 or 50% (volume knob). But if I finally go for the 703's (after hearing them), I guess that I'm stretching the RA1062 too far and that I would have to save for a RB1080 real soon.

That being said, I wonder if I should go that way (RA1062 and upgrade later with the RB1080) or "s-t-r-e-t-c-h" my budget right now for a RC1070/RB1080. In that case, will I regret not getting the RC1090 instead ?? (because that's t-o-o much streching for me now...) In that case, the RA1062 is maybe a better path? (that I would upgrade latter with a RB1080 and then again with a RC1090..) Would the RC1090 vs RC1070 really make such a difference with 703's (It's not like if I was looking at 803S's..)

Sure I'm not the first with these hard choices, so I hope someone will help me figure this out. After I will find some time to go and listen to some systems at my dealer. I will then keep you updated on my impressions!

Thanks again!

[Mitchell]

Thanks Geoff, but does the extra power of the RB-1080 make such a difference even if I don't have to play the RA-1062 with the volume knob higher than 12 o'clock?

I have a 1080 and 703's for about 6 months.
I started looking at Rotel receivers and I was not happy with the sound with either 703's or 704's. Something was missing. A wise salesman led me first to seperates at the same 100wpc as the receiver and then a 1080 at 200wpc. At first it seemed like a salesmans plan to have me spend more but the difference was dramatic.
The music really came alive with the 1080. Initially it made no sense as I was listening at relatively low volumes but he explained essentially the same thing that Aussie Geoff mentioned above.
"Fast bass" was another part of the discussion. Apparently if the amp cant get current there when needed the bass gets muddy and the mids and highs suffer as well.
I hope this is helpful.

[jim777]

Well I just came back from my dealer and what a surprise for both of us! I tried the RA-1062 and RCD-1072 with B&W CM4 CM6 and 703 and the RC-1070 RB-1070 RCC-1055 with the 703. Each B&W sounded better than the last; the 703 was really excellent; no surprise there. But the big surprise was that the 703 on the "separates" sounded very harsh (very "digital" and artificial) compared to the 703 on the RA1062. This last setup was by far the best for me: this little integrated is a jewel for the price. Even the dealer never heard the 703 outperform the CM6 without a better (read 4-6k$) amp. It was quite enough loud for me with the volume knob at 30-40% so those who listen very loud; but not me, at least not for now. And I am happy knowing that I can add an amp to my RA1062 and eventually even change it for a preamp (and if I go all the way up there, I know that the RA1062 will resell well).

Mitchell, I didn't hear the RC1070/RB1080/RCC1072 so I can't tell how it compares to the RA1062. Before adding an amp, I will listen to a McIntosh to be sure. On the "separates" I heard, the sound was very "digital", so maybe the RCC1055 is the culprit (but he said that it wasn't better with the RCD1072 so...)

Same for Geoff, I didn't try the RB1080 because the 703 on the RB1070 really turned me off (compared to the CM6 on the RA-1062). So I then tried the 703 on the RA-1062 and it was a great surprise. I also remembered your advice that the RA-1062 is "upgradable" with an amp in the future. Again, at that point, I will also take a look at McIntosh just in case...

That being said, I think my mind is set. I will get the 703's (that I hope keeping for many many many years) with the RA-1062 and the RCD-1072 and good cables. Then, after an initial break-in period, I will try biwiring to see if it gets any better. It's a cheap upgrade if it does some good. I still wonder if I should use the same type of wires for lows or mids though. I will post again if ever I try that. Then, once funds available again, I will take a look at a seperate amp and maybe a separate pre-amp too (instead of the RA1062).

So this whole forum (htguide.com) was great help for me, I hope I managed to give some back here Check in a few weeks in the photos section to see if I got my kit! :T

And now, I soon leave for a Steve Vai show in Montreal so see ya! ;b>

[Aussie Geoff]

Jim777,

Excellent. Listenning always helps. The 703s will be a great long term speaker for you. And (as you point out) the RA-1062 will be able toact as a pre-amp when (or if )you want to go separates (you'll need the 1080 to do it justice.). And the RCD-1072 and RA-1062 are a great combination together.

One further thought for you - with separates the cable between the pre-amp and amp is important (surprisingly so) - so when you next try them, make sure it is a reasonable quality RCA cable to allow the merits of the two components to shine through...

Geoff

[Mitchell]

Jim77,
Sounds like your doing all the right legwork. I found, (and others confirmed) that the 703's do need time to break in so give it time after setup to settle down.
Sound anchors also improved my 703' quite a bit.
Best of Luck

[jim777]

Mitchell, what can Sound Anchors do? I have a (fake) wood floor and I'm not sure the installing the pins under the speakers is a good idea. I also want the less sound possible going downstairs to the guy beneath me (it's very well isolated but there is a limit!).

And Geoff, very good cables were used for the listening tests I got a price for a system including very good cables too (the RCA between the amp and the CD and the speaker cables too). But can't tell you which brand in the forum

Thanks again!

[Mitchell]

JIm77
I bought sond anchors because I live in a NYC coop and the guy downstairs complained that he could heard the music coming through the floors.
I talked to the guys at Sound Anchors and he felt that if the sound was being transmitted through the floor as opposed to through vents or openings, I could get a significant reduction in the sound getting to the downstairs neighbor by installing his speaker stands. His solution had 3 parts.
A metal stand, small soft material pieces between the stand and the speaker, and bimaterial cones that sits on the floor. Each section further insulates and absorbs vibration from speaker.
He also suggested that I would get better sound from my speakers (703s) of which I was already happy with.
The results so far are that the sound was clearly improved with much cleaner, sharper bass and some midrange. Sound improvement was immediatly noticable and very dramatic.
As far as neighbors, there is no way for me to really know how much reduction has actually been effected except that I have had no more complaints.
Its worth giving them a call to discuss as they are very interesting to talk to about audio in general.
Hope this is helpful

[tensjed]

Jim, I think you chose the correct path. I am currently powering a pair of cdm 7nts with the 60 watt 1062. I was wondering for a while if i was underpowered and consulted several people. The rotel dealer suggested that i add an amp, and i still may one day. However i must say that i am currently pleased with the sound. No need for amp so far. Check out these articles on the 1062...take them with a grain of salt though because they may be marketing.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/news...el_ra1062.html
http://www.audioemporium.com/twochannellives.htm