What features would you like on the next Rotel Preamp?

[boe]

Just curious what features you would like on the next Rotel Preamp (processor - I'll say the successor to the 1068 to clarify). I realize what I would like won't match up with everyone else but I do get some great ideas from the people on this forum.

Some things I would like to see -


1) True balanced outputs

2) Adjustable brightness for the display from the remote

3) Dolby Headphone Jack

4) Network Radio In

5) More optical ins than the current model

6) More than one 1394

7) THREE x HDMI In

8) TWO x HDMI Out

9) Upgradeable for SACD 2.0,

10) This is a really important one for me - upgradeable to Dolby Digital Plus, and DTS-HD (I realize the specs aren't finalized but they could try and make sure that they have the ability to support it - I don't expect 13+ outjacks but I want to make sure it can fully process the greater bit rate / bandwidth) without having to replace any equipment. I was able to upgrade my current processor to handle DTS ES, matrix etc when they came out with a downloadble firmware update.

11) Audyssey room calibration - with manual override

12) I would like the firmware upgrade to be accessable from a USB (2.0) port on the front - that would be much more handy than an RS232 on the back. It would be so handy to use a cheap usb memory stick to do the upgrade than to haul over my laptop, access the back of my unit which is in a cabinet, connect up a RS232 cable...


I suppose someone should create a seperate thread for people looking for the features they would like on the higher end one (1098 replacement) since I'm sure there are plenty of people looking for features on a video switching preamp.

[mattburk]

3 X HDMI-DVD audio and sacd
2 X 1394
acoustic calibration/equilization
head phone
phono input
tuner would be cool, if you wanted to play catch up with anthem

[boe]

You're right I should have put down more than one of the 1394 and hdmi! I'll put those in now.

I've only checked out the 1068, and it seems like a very good preamp and it is the one I'd probably buy if I wasn't able to wait for the next model. Since I don't own one, can you tell me what you mean by acoustic calibration/equilization?

[Kyle]

What he means is "RoomEQ". Some higher end processors now come with a microphone that you place in your listening position, and the processor "tunes" itself for delay and calibrates itself based on what it hears.

More or less the same setup you go through with measuring the distance to your speakers and using an SPL meter, although they claim that the processor does a better job..

[basementjack]

RDS Tuner Please!

[Kyle]

Oh btw, I'm on board with all of the above requests. I bought a 1068 earlier in the month to tide me over a year or so until Rotel puts out a pre/pro that has some of the features that Parasound, Classe and even companies like Marantz are putting out.

[Raphie]

I don't want a tuner in my 1068 processor (already have a sat tuner for digital radio) Intergrated tuner is more for low end stuff. would like HDMI in/out though and RGB Scart in, all to be rerouted through HDMI out.

[boe]

Thanks for the info - I was at CES and the Yamaha rep was discussing that autoequalization feature on their receivers (he lamented they didn't have any preamps coming out in the immediate future). That Equalization feature sounds great! I'll add that to my list of must haves I was debating about getting a hold-over preamp (as you did) until one with the features I've listed was available at a reasonable price but I couldn't swing the big bucks - my fault for not getting into a more lucrative field or being more enterprising

I think one of my greatest hopes is that they will put additional processing power into the preamp than is required initially. My current preamp had additional processing power than it needed so it was upgradeable through the RS232 to handle more surround sound formats than were on the market when the unit was originally released. I didn't have to send the unit in for a new chipset or hardware upgrade. The download was free. The company that made my unit has not made any new preamps to replace mine in the last 5 years so I'm keeping my ears open to other units such as Rotel. I would be happy to consider another preamp if the company that made mine did start making them again since they did come out with 7 or so firmware updates over the years, it wasn't just about fixing issues, it was about improving the feature set of the unit.

I'm on the fence about the integrated tuner - frankly I have a seperate tuner now and I use it about as much as I use my VCR. I do use it more than my Laser Disk player or tape deck though (and yes, it is true, I still have them in my AV stack). Since they do make tuner seperates I can live with their decision. Perhaps a unit with and without a tuner might gather some more troops to their camp though.

I can understand why some people would like a phono input although I threw out my unit about 3 years ago when I realized I would never use it again.

I'm stoked I posted this question - I'm getting some very helpful ideas. Hopefully Rotel will read this post too so I won't have to look at too many models.

Andrew- you must know these units like the back of your hand - what would you like to see in the next model?

[Kevin D]

From my experience, I wouldn't want anything like Yamaha's YAPO on my Rotel.. I could be deaf and do a better job of getting it right. It does a lot more then sound levels. It does speaker size, distance, eq, etc... Pretty much at least one thing wrong in every catagory..

Kevin D.

[basementjack]

I'm with Kevin - I tried a Denon 3805 and the auto eq thing seemed like a gimik - it sounded horrible too. That said I know it's a trendy feature, I wouldn't fault rotel for going in that direction, please just give us manual control over the results!

[boe]

autoeq - I'll agree I would want final control over the results - I think that might be due to my control freak tendencies.

[mattburk]

I dont care about the eq for size, distance etc, but something that could do what the beringer does, or like rdes over at av123.

[DrJRapp]

I would like to see modular hardware upgradeability. The design architectecture of the 1098 is already 90% there to allow for this type of upgradeability, even though it has been rumored that the intent wasn't to allow for this feature.

Better reliability would also be high on my list as I have had 2 failures of my 1098.

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi,

A good discussion everyone.. Have a look at the RSP-1098/68/67 wishlist HERE for some more ideas collated from previous threads like this...

Once this thread has completed I'll take the items into a V5.0 of the wish list...

Geoff

[Raphie]

When will we see the new firmware? i thought that was supposed to be there in December?

[EAmin]

What he means is "RoomEQ". Some higher end processors now come with a microphone that you place in your listening position, and the processor "tunes" itself for delay and calibrates itself based on what it hears.

More or less the same setup you go through with measuring the distance to your speakers and using an SPL meter, although they claim that the processor does a better job..

They should start looking at integrating the MultEQ functionality from Audyssey. This is the same technology in the Denon 5805. However, I think this can be a standalone unit that doesn't have to be built into the processor. Just my .02.

[Andrew Pratt]

Not sure where the new firmware is but I'll see what I can find out.

[boe]

I would like to see modular hardware upgradeability. The design architectecture of the 1098 is already 90% there to allow for this type of upgradeability, even though it has been rumored that the intent wasn't to allow for this feature.

I like the modular upgrade myself. I'm constantly changing out memory, processors, video, sound cards on PCs. I'm not a design engineer but I've seen some receivers and preamps with daughter cards. It seems like a great way of making sure that the DAC and DSP could easily be upgraded to handle new formats. The Onkyo lets you choose interconnect cards - that would be nice if a new hdmi or such upgrade occurs. It helped on some PCs where I needed to go from USB 1.x to 2.0.

One feature I woudl want that might night apply to as many people out there might be an add in card that does a nice cross over seperation for my fronts speakers which support biwire connectivity. If I could use my (currently) spare amp for just the top half of my speakers (Von Schweikert VR4 gen II) it would be sweet.

[boe]

Wow -thanks for pointing this out - I can see you take this very seriously! I'll start reading v4 now. I think I skipped this when I saw it earlier because I thought it was a wishlist for firmware updates in the current 1068.

Hi,

A good discussion everyone.. Have a look at the RSP-1098/68/67 wishlist HERE for some more ideas collated from previous threads like this...

Once this thread has completed I'll take the items into a V5.0 of the wish list...

Geoff

[gd]

Extreme Separates

This might take Rotel out of its competitive-pricing realm, but I'd be stoked to see them roll out an audio-only pre-pro and a separate video router / processor... kinda like Bryston does, but at 2/3 the msrp.

With Rotel's good-sound-first priorities, they could make that pre-pro a pure audio world-beater.

Ditch the TFT.

No tuner, no phono section, no headphone amp... at that level, users should want to hand-pick those items... worth including on future receivers, however.

And maybe as options, add balanced outs (with true balanced circuitry to back it up) and install the best OP-amps possible.

And I guess at that level, modular hardware upgrades should finally be made available... I envision a $2500-3000 pre-pro that could arguably be the last one I'd ever need to buy (and maybe that's why such a product may not come to pass).

Though I can see its worth as a starting point in complex systems in difficult rooms, auto-EQ doesn't do much for me, just more circuitry to interfere with audio paths... seems that's better left to software packages like Avia.

OK that's enough daydreaming...

[boe]

BALANCED OUTS- I forgot that - thanks!

I'll agree with the seperate video router. Although I use my preamp for DVD audio - the video signal goes straight to my TV to eliminate any potential degradation.

I'm not sure where I sit on the headphone jack though - I always want at least a decent one for testing when there is an issue. I honestly believe within 3 years a TRUE surround sound (more than processed stereo) headphone will be out that will require more than a 2 channel headphone connector. I guess it could be done with an HDMI connector to a seperate box that could wirelessly send the signal to the headset. If GE can make one that wins an award at CES, I can't imagine Sennheiser or Sony don't have something in the works.

[Asterduc]

Simplicity, sound quality and functionality.

I agree with "gd" :T
Simplify things, deliver high-end quality but keep it all affordable. That is what Rotel is today.
Think about Audiofile users and 40+, don't make it to complicate to use.

- Balanced lines are popular in the US (contrary they aren't in Europe IMO), I understand a need for that as many high-end players have that kind of output. However, most of the users may use the Rotel D/A converter and thus go through the digital lines. It could be good for the signal out on the pre/pro to the power amps (they have an input for it already)

- I am using my stuff for one month now, and I must say, I am not missing anything, ... unless somewhat more power. Never have enough of this! Somebody an RB-1090 for sale?

Maybe one thing I would like to add: a switch to darken the blue power led. I know, some want their room filled with all kind of fancy blue spots, well I use scotch tape to make them invisible. :Z

[phuz]

I want one that comes with lips.

:B

[JDH]

I still think there should be a wish list for the RSP-1068 and RSP-1098 replacement, I say this as all the wishes if included would effectively put it in the RSP-1098 class and size. I cant see balanced inputs/outputs being included in the RSP-1068 as it would make it to large and bump up the cost to much. Those types of features are really for the RSP-1098 replacement rather than the RSP-1068 replacement. Possible a pair of balanced outputs for the 2 main channels could be accomodated but that would be about it.

If it hasn't been included above, possible a crossover point below 40hz would be a good feature especially if you have large floorstanding speakers used in 2ch mode with a good subwoofer. Maybe a better remote to the same class as the pre-amp. Then again most of us probably already have a better quality remote like a pronto or MX500 anyway.

[mattburk]

Better remote-I agree forgot about that one.

[Asterduc]

Remote

If you are talking about the RR-1050, then what is wrong with that.

To me it does everything I want. Never had something better (honestly said I haven't had many remotes yet, so maybe I am running behind on this).
My Accuphase only had volume and function switch, the McIntosh didn't have remote at all!!!

RR-1050:
+ easy to use and to understand
+ all relevant functions are available, nothing more nothing less
+ good ergonomics, can be used with only 1 hand (not always evident)
+ controles all other IR equipment
+ Don't need my glasses to use it, important if you're comming on age

- display should have blue background light!!!

[JDH]

If you are talking about the RR-1050, then what is wrong with that.

To me it does everything I want. Never had something better (honestly said I haven't had many remotes yet, so maybe I am running behind on this).
My Accuphase only had volume and function switch, the McIntosh didn't have remote at all!!!

RR-1050:
+ easy to use and to understand
+ all relevant functions are available, nothing more nothing less
+ good ergonomics, can be used with only 1 hand (not always evident)
+ controles all other IR equipment
+ Don't need my glasses to use it, important if you're comming on age

- display should have blue background light!!!

IMHO I find it cheap and tacky with bad ergonomics.

[eelco74]

I am very happy with my 1068, there is only one thing I wish they would fix :

To be able to switch bass management on/off independantly for the multi/digital/analogue input. With the current software you can switch BM for the multi input on/off. And the global bass settings control the analogue/digital inputs.

I can't do the following :
Multi: no bassmanagement
Digital: no bass management
Analogue: bass copy

[boe]

I still think there should be a wish list for the RSP-1068 and RSP-1098 replacement, I say this as all the wishes if included would effectively put it in the RSP-1098 class and size. I cant see balanced inputs/outputs being included in the RSP-1068 as it would make it to large and bump up the cost to much. Those types of features are really for the RSP-1098 replacement rather than the RSP-1068 replacement. Possible a pair of balanced outputs for the 2 main channels could be accomodated but that would be about it.

I think of the 1098 as a 1068 designed for video switching. I think the LCD and the video switching components move it to a different price range. I'm sure there are plenty of other little features but I think that is how they broke down the market niche.

If making one that fits these requirements puts it in a different price range, I would gladly pay $500 more for one with real upgrade potential. I don't look forward to buying a new preamp every 5 years. I don't need more speakers, I don't need different amps. About the only thing I need to replace are my DVD player to a blue laser or hd or both when the war is over and a preamp that can handle the new formats such as DTS-HD or Dolby Digital plus.

Rotel makes good products at a reasonable price - quality bang for the buck. That is why I think they could make a preamp that meets my needs at a price I think would be fair. I have a two rotel amps - one of which is over 10 years old and still useful although it is no longer used for my main HT.

Think about what you got 5 years ago for $2000 worth of computer equipment - that same thing would go for about $400 today. As technology improves, features that were once only on esoteric systems now become common.

I agree on the remote - I think many of us replace all the remotes that come with our systems with a pronto or other brand. The new logitech is looking like a good amount of bang for the buck to me. The shape and features of the remote are very specific to the user so I can see why there is not point in jacking up the price by putting in an expensive remote that might get replaced.

[boe]

I agree with "gd" :T
- Balanced lines are popular in the US (contrary they aren't in Europe IMO), I understand a need for that as many high-end players have that kind of output. However, most of the users may use the Rotel D/A converter and thus go through the digital lines. It could be good for the signal out on the pre/pro to the power amps (they have an input for it already)

I'm not sure what you are saying - I may be not reading this correctly. Don't all the lines on your system such as cable TV, other connections such as SACD, DVD-A, electrical play a role in the interconnects?

[boe]

To be able to switch bass management on/off independantly for the multi/digital/analogue input. With the current software you can switch BM for the multi input on/off. And the global bass settings control the analogue/digital inputs.

Do you think that will be a firmware update or is that the nature of the 1068?

[Blazar]

Well I will tell you what is missing from pre-amps is the ability to read music off of an external hard drive. CD transports remain only for people who don't care if sound is perfect. Hard drives remove 9/10 of the problems that cd's face.

ALL rca interconnects should be ABANDONED in favor of fully balanced XLR designs.

There should be NO audible hiss at max volume.

[eelco74]

Boe,

I do not think it is in the design of the 1068, since all channels can have different cross over filters independantly. I hope it is just a design issue in the way it is orginised in the menu.

[boe]

Well I will tell you what is missing from pre-amps is the ability to read music off of an external hard drive. CD transports remain only for people who don't care if sound is perfect. Hard drives remove 9/10 of the problems that cd's face.

ALL rca interconnects should be ABANDONED in favor of fully balanced XLR designs.

There should be NO audible hiss at max volume.

I'm no audio engineer but I would guess that the external HD would have to have a way of transporting the data. I think that would be doable via firewire or HDMI provided the external HD was feeding it properly. Kind of like the way my DVD player reads an MP3 but then submits the data to the preamp. I would guess Rotel or some other company could make some money if they made a good fast MP3 and other codec player for the home theatre. They should could make it support bluetooth so you woltdn't even have to remove it from your HT to transfer data to it from your computer. Mind you, I have an HTPC hooked up to my preamp but I'm guessing you would like something smaller and far more affordable.

I would like to see the balanced amp connects as well. Considering they sell their amps with them it seems a shame the 1068 doesn't have that as well.

[boe]

Boe,

I do not think it is in the design of the 1068, since all channels can have different cross over filters independantly. I hope it is just a design issue in the way it is orginised in the menu.

I'll be happy to add this to the list if I could get some help from people on how to word it.

[Bostonears]

I'd like downmixing for the digital audio outputs. This allows, for example, 5.1 channel Dolby Digital input to be output as 2 channel PCM for an audio recorder or for digital input into a Zone 2 system. I've got Music Choice channels in Dolby Digital on my cable TV service, and I'd love to get them to my stereo Zone 2 without having to use the analog outputs on the cable box. Depending on the song and the channel, the signal from the cable box can be 48 KHz DD2.0, DD2.1, or DD5.1 all of which I'd like to get as PCM 2.0 (can be either 48 KHz or 44 KHz).

A few new models on the market offer this digital downmix feature, such as the Ultimate Receiver and the Theater Grand IV, both from Sunfire. Existing Rotels can already do such downmixing internally. They just need to add the ability to output the digital signal.

[JDH]

An Ethernet port, port like on the Onkyo AV receivers for Net radio, multimedia player etc.

[DanR]

True balanced circuitry.

[boe]

DanR - can you tell me what true balanced circuitry is? Is that for the blanced outs?

JDH - I don't have the 1068 but the diagram looks like it has an RJ45 on the back - is that for something else?

[seoman]

Some essentials that are (always) missing.
- DA & AD for digital and analog rec-out, regardless of the input source type.
- Digital Tape loop for connecting an external sound proccessor
- Headphone out
- Manual ouput selection. For instance: swapping front with back signals.
But this is an option that has to be done by the manufacturor of the DSP since Rotel (and many others) have no clue about signal proccessing.
- Mono Option!!! Seems weird but it's still nessecary sometimes.
- a seccond Digital out wich can be selected as 2nd room, rec out or one of the ouput signals.

That would make a real versatile preamp!

Greetings Simon

[basementjack]

Boe -

The RJ45 jack on the 1068/1056/1067 is used as a serial port. The serial port can be used to upgrade the firmware.

To understand Balanced audio, you first need to understand the system in place now.

It's a common misconeception with audio equipment that one of the wires is Positive (+) and the other is negative (-). This is generally not the case. An AC Signal is called AC becuase the direction of current flow changes (hence the term Alternating Current)

I like to think of the signals as Contol and Ground. An analogy here would be to think of teo people standing holding a stick and pushing it back and forth. The stick is the control, while the ground provides a point of reference for the movement of the stick (think of what would happen if one were say on a boat - the movement of the stick would cause the whole boat to move, so the grounding is important, even though the signal remains soley in the stick.

Hopefully you can visualize this.

Now picture the inside of a preamp or CD player or whatever..
with an RCA jack, the signal or control as I called it above, is in the center of the RCA jack, the outer ring is the Ground. On some high end preamps, this is easy to see - all the outer rings will be grounded to the chasis, while only a single wire connects the RCA jack to the circuit.

Ok, now lets talk about balanced audio.

With balanced audio - the original control is still present, but they add an inverted copy of the signal on a second control line. There is still a point of reference (ground) this is why XLR connectors have 3 pins.

Both of the control lines are full AC - Picture our stick analogy. this time both people are holding two sticks, one in each hand. As the left hand moves away, the right hand moves in and vice versa.
What this does is provide an additional implied point of reference.
If "interference" gets on a signal, it will get added to both signals, but since one signal is positve, and the other negative, the two won't add up to zero. For our example, say the person controlling the two sticks is pushed.
The person on the other end is expecting one stick to move forward while the other moves away, but this doesn't happen, both sticks move forward.

Speaking of balanced audio, this would be corrected on the receiving end by comparing both control signals to the ground reference.

Hope this was a good enough explanation. Unbalanced, two wire connections are good, but are still susceptible to interference and noise, and lack any means for the receiving equipent to detect and correct the noise.

Balanced 3 wire is the best, allowing for correction and elimination of signal variances caused by interference.

- Jack

PS Cat 5 etherenet uses a similar system without the groud to transmit data.

[Kyle]

Oh, one thing i dislike about my 1068. The volume settings. You can have slow medium or fast volume adjustment, but that basically translates to adding +2 or like +5 to the current volume, not increasing the rate at which the volume adjusts.. follow me?

I find it irritating

[basementjack]

Kyle, I'm with you, it would have been nice to see it as an acceleration curve instead of a 1,2,or3 increase at a time.

Still, If I had to give and take, I'd take the sound quality over a minor thing like the volume level speed.

[Kevin D]

If you are controlling via IR, do a search. Someone modified the volume code to get rid of the 1 second initial delay and also speed the ramp rate up. Search under 1066 IR or something like that. The same codes work for the newer units.

You will need a Pronto to program the codes in. If you didn't want to buy one (or didn't all ready have one), you can borrow one and relearn the codes back into the Rotel remote. If your dealer is in any way a decent one, you should be able to give them the codes and your Rotel remote and get them learned in.

If anyone's dealer isn't decent, I'm sure I can provide a RR1050 exchange program for a small refundable deposite..

Kevin D.

[scient]

Well I have held off on my purchase of the 1068 (and bought a 1056) until they incorporate HDMI inputs. So heres what I would like to see in its sibling

1. HDMI audio and video switching (4 inputs)
2. More digital audio inputs
3. RDS Tuner
4. Cut down the number of component/s-video inputs
5. SACD 2.0 compatible
6. Support for new Dolby/DTS formats
7. MP3 decoding
8. UPGRADIBILITY!
9. Drop in price? :B

I know most/all items on the list have been mentioned by someone or the other. But as the title reads, it is something I would like to see in my next 1068.