Aftermarket Power Cords for Halos

[john4618]

I'll be receiving my new power cords today from SignalCable. When I ordered them I was told that they will work much better when NOT plugged into my monster surge protector, but when plugged directly into the wall it may be –risky- unless your units have a fused circuit for protection.

I have the C2, A51 and A21 -- do these units have fused circuits ???

Is anyone that’s using aftermarket power cords plugging them directly into the wall, or is it just too risky ???

[Dave0604]

I am awaiting my new A51 and A21 amps, so I have had similar questions in mind. Both Parasound and my dealer have specifically advised me not to plug these amps into most power conditioners. The conditioners can not support the power these amps need. Instead, I have been advised to plug them directly into the wall outlet. I purchased the Wiremold L10320 to increase the number of outlets available for me. The Wiremold L10320 is an outlet strip that provides nine hospital grade grounded outlets, with no surge protectors, fuses, etc - in short, nothing that will modify your equipment's performance in any way. If you can't sleep at night without some kind of protection, you'll need to consider high end products from manufacturers such as PS Audio or Furman.

[john4618]

Where did you buy your Wiremold L10320 ? I just searched Yahoo and Google and found no place to buy it ?

What specific models of PS Audio or Furman are you referring to ?

[Dave0604]

I found the Wiremold L10320 at Allied Electronics, or alliedelec.com. The easiest way to find the unit on their website is to search by part #, using L10320. The cost is $27.35, and tax and shipping brought my total to $35. Take a look at the NAIM website, which is naimusa.com/power.html, and read what they have to say about the use of power conditioners. I found it to be in line with the advice I got from Parasound directly, specifically not recommending the use of power conditioners.

My Parasound dealer suggested the PS Audio Director 4.7, which lists for $2k, if I was inclined to utilize a Power Conditioner. Parasound recommended Furman if one wanted to have a power conditioner, and I have had other contacts recommend the Furman IT Reference, which lists in the $2500-3000 range.

For myself, I am selling my Monster HTS2600, and plugging everything into the Wiremold outlet center. I may take a look at a Richard Gray Power Company unit in the future to see what impact that might have. However, even Richard Gray recommends plugging the amps directly into the wall outlet, and using the available plugs on their equipment for source equipment.

[john4618]

Thanks Dave -- I just ordered one from alliedelec.com

When you say "...plugging everything into the Wiremold outlet center" -- you're including your C1/C2 processor, amps, DVD, TV, VCR, etc. ??? I thought that only the amps would be plugged into the L10320 ???

[Dave0604]

John, I have plugged everything into the L10320, per the information from NAIM. I have the amps plugged in closest to the strip power cord, followed by my C2, DVD player and CD player. If I try the Richard Gray equiupment and feel it provides an improvement, I will then move my C2 and source items to the Richard Gray equipment outlets. I'm more concerned about possible damage from a lightning strike then I am a power surge, so in the event of a lightning storm, the best approach is simply unplug the equipment.

I haven't moved to an upgraded power cord. Let me know if you feel your new cord(s) make a positive difference.

[Brian]

According to the info on Richard Gray's site, plugging the wiremold into a Gray power unit will also provide the benefits to the wiremold. Actually, plugging into any outlet that is on the same breaker as a Gray will provide some filtering.
I use a Gray 400 and I swear I noticed an improvement. So I kept it.

[john4618]

Brian,

So you recommend the Gray 400 ??? Are you also using surge protection ??? Does the Gray 400 protect against lightning strikes ??? Are you also using a Wiremold with your Gray 400 because I could not find any mention of the Wiremold on Richard Gray's site ??? Do you feel your system is 100% protected, because my biggest fear is to NOT be protected, which is why I'm using a Monster Power Center to protect my Parasounds, but if the Gray 400 will provide 100% protection AND improve sound quality, then we can have the best of both worlds. Sorry about so many questions but before I invest $779 I'd prefer actual user's opinions and experiences, thanks!

[nicholtl]

Figured I might throw my suggestions in...

I have the Parasound Halo C2 along with the A51 and A21 amps. I also have the Monster HTPS 7000 (their top-of-the-line power conditioner and surge protector), and the Monster AVS 2000 (their voltage stabilizer).

Anyhow, I went through the same dilemma when I first purchased the Halo's. To plug the amps into the conditioner or not? Well, first I called up Monster Power and they explained that the unit had specific sockets for "power amps" and so that is exactly what should go into them. They said the units were designed to handle huge loads of power, and that it would improve the sound quality.

Then I called the tech people at Parasound, and they told me the exact opposite. They said by plugging in the power-hungry amps into a power conditioner, it would limit power supply and limit the sound stage, among other things. When I asked them about the issue of surge protection, they told me the Halo amps have been built so incredibly robust that it would protect itself from near most anything. However, they said plugging in the C2 would be perfectly fine, since it does not draw huge gobs of power, and that the fine circuitry would most likely benefit from the line conditioning.

Anways, I tried both. Plugging the A51 and A21 into my Monster HTPS 7000 and then directly into the wall sockets. The result? The sound stage and clarity and effortless power truly come through when the amps are plugged straight into the wall. I recommend sticking them cords right into your wall sockets.

Oh, and I also bought the PS Audio Xstream power cords and upgraded my amps power cables. No difference to my ears. Even though they are supposed to "clean" the power being delivered.

Well, that's just my 2 cents. Hope it helped somewhat?

[ThomasW]

Power amps will benefit from power conditioning IF the conditioning device/devices are up the the dynamic loads that the power amps present.

I have all my power amps (see equipment list in my profile) plugged into multiple balanced power transformers. And a dedicated line with line stabilization. (2-66 lb isolation transformers). All these certainly improve the sonics of the power amps.

It's costly to take this approach. And money is better spent on improving the front end first. Then move to you power amps if the budget permits.

[Lex]

Guys, we've told people all along in Club Rotel, no cable speak or even alternate brand component speak within reason. While we realize it's all integrally tied together, it's still not the purpose of this area which is for Halo/Parasound.

I'm going to leave this thread here for now, but please do not make it a continuous at the top thread, or I will move it.
Thanks,
Lex

[Brian]

I don't use any surge protection at the moment, just the Richard Gray. I plan on installing a whole house surge suppressor at the main panel eventually.
(A surge protector won't do anything for a direct strike anyway, regardless of what the manuf. says.)

Read through the info on Gray's website. It explains how their stuff works. I'm pleased with my purchase. They promise a 30 day money back guarantee if you're not satisfied so a local dealer should be willing to let you take something home to try out.

[ThomasW]

Here's the patent application for Richard Gray's power plant.

This device could perform as advertized on the RG website IF the device weighed in at 250+ lbs or so. That's how big the choke would need to be so actually provide the fill-in power claimed.

Also the GRPC device can't 'switch' fast enough to supply the 'lost' power, it's a physical impossiblilty. These devices are designed to 'store' energy, not quickly 'release' energy.

Now if anyone wants to play with this 'science' you can do it for a lot less money, (how about $31)? Buy this Hammond choke from PE. Put a AC plug on the leads and plug it into the wall. Someone gutted their $400 RGPC device, and guess what they found inside hidden under a ton of potting compound? :wink:

[ralniv]

Eeek. This thread has me nervous about the Exactpower EP15A that I bought. I have a C2 and A51 sitting at home in their boxes awaiting my lazy rump to finish building some speakers.

I read a review of 9 high-end power conditions on avguide.com and the reviewer stated that "the EP15A performed superbly when tested in my secondary, Parasound-powered system (yielding some of the most airy treble and potent bass I’ve ever heard from that system).". The reviewer said he had mixed results with his Musical Fidelity amplifier (supposedly an uber brand, but I'm unfamiliar with it).

Hopefully the A51 will not pose a problem for the EP15A because the EP15A is not current-limiting. If current demand exceeds its capabilities (46Amp peak-to-peak) then it automatically switches output to the wall outlet. Once current demand drops below the EP15A's limit, then regulation begins again. Hopefully this switching is fast enough to handle quick musical transients.

I'll report back with my observations in about 3-5 wks -- my ECD for finishing my listening/theater room.

[ThomasW]

ralniv,

If you live in a location where the line voltages sag and spike; and if the equipment you use has poorly designed power suppy regulation, then the EP15 will certainly fix those problems. It also contains EMI/RFI filters and provides surge protection. So it certainly should have an audible impact. But at an extremely high price.

It's interesting that that ExactPower also sells the SP15, that's a balanced power transformer. My personal experience is that using balanced power devices makes the single biggest difference in performance after using dedicated lines ..... :wink:

I'll have a chat with the other moderators. It might be a good idea to have a sticky thread in one of the general topic sections, where some of the engineers on HT-Guide, discuss the pros/cons of various the type of power conditioners. Some devices sold are pure smoke and mirrors, others are founded in solid scientific principles and engineering. So a dedicated thread discussing the devices might save people a lot of money.

[john4618]

ThomasW,

So if I attach the leads of a HAMMOND 193L FILTER CHOKE to the leads of the power cord on my A51 it will give me equal/similar performance of a GRPC ??? Can you elaborate on this please ???

Your idea on a sticky thread to discuss the pros/cons of various types of power conditioners is a GREAT idea!

[ThomasW]

There was a thread on another forum where an owner of a RGPC model 400 gutted his unit and found a simple choke buried in ton of potting compound. The suggestion was that the Hammond choke which is similar to that described in the RG patent app would provide the same performance.

The person making the DIY suggestion had a schematic posted to a website. It simply showed a choke with an AC plug attached to it's leads. And the suggestion was to plug it into the outlet where the other equipment was plugged in. That webpage and the DIY information on it are now gone. I tried to access it via the "WayBack" machine and it's not in their archives either. That means someone went to great lengths to nuke all the references to it. The thread where it was originally discussed still remains, HERE.

As usual caveat emptor!

BTW, I showed JonMarsh the patent app. He's an electrical engineer for power applications, so there's 40+ yrs of knowledge crammed into his brain. He says that chokes like that are designed to store, and slowly release power. Fundamentally they lack the ability to cycle power fast enough, to supplement the AC line should the voltage sag do to a high amplifier load.

[Marshal]

There are different conditioners for different needs. Not all of them are created equal. Most amplifier manufacturers are bunch of ignorant idiots that never plugged a single amp into any conditioner. All that matters to them is pure power not how their amps sound.

1. Plugging amp into wall and all other components into power strip or conditioner will create extra ground and more noise. Never do that.

2. 99% of listening involves 25 watts of power being used from amp so we really have to wonder how in the world conditioner or power outlet can limit amplifier output.

3. Conditioners provide exactly the same power as power outlets. If something is limiting amplifiers then it is power outlet.

4. Parasound says in their manual for Halo A51 that this amp draws 3000W at full 4 ohm load!? This is against FCC regulations and should be banned from the market immediately. 15A outlet provides 1500W and 20 outlet provides 1800W. To run this amp properly you need 30A or even 50A outlet.

5. Who needs all that power anyway? More watts means better sound at reasonable listening levels not a license to go berserk and blow your brains out.

6. With conditioners you will have less noise and better sound which hi-fidelity is all about not about 1 million watts of stadium amplification.

I recommend PS Audio Power Plants and Audio Power Wedges. Read more this FAQ to purge your ignorance:

http://www.audiopower.com/newsite/FAQ/index.html

[NMyTree]

Guys,

Have you ever tried any of the Tripp Lite products? Such as.......

this one..... http://www.tripplite.com/products/pr...?productID=111


Or maybe this.......... http://www.tripplite.com/products/pr...productID=2812


Any opinions/thoughts on using something like this...........

http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=705

Would sure appreciate some of your technical expertise on this.

[Peter Nielsen]

2. 99% of listening involves 25 watts of power being used from amp so we really have to wonder how in the world conditioner or power outlet can limit amplifier output.

It is true that normally 25 watts or less goes into the speakers. Still, due to the high idle bias current, the amps consume a lot even when idle. I think the A51 uses about 250W in idle mode. The JC1 monoblocks use the same in low bias mode each and even more in high bias mode.

Conditioners provide exactly the same power as power outlets. If something is limiting amplifiers then it is power outlet.

Not true. The best power conditioners, like PS Audio, are completely isolated from the outlet. They actually REGENERATE the power. First they take the AC power from the outlet, convert it to DC, filter it, and then they regenerate the AC. Basically the DC-AC regeneration works like an amplifier and is strictly limited to the specifications of the components used.

If you don't believe me, read about what happened to this guy when he plugged a pair of JC1's into his PS Audio Power Plant:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...er-8-2004.html

4. Parasound says in their manual for Halo A51 that this amp draws 3000W at full 4 ohm load!? This is against FCC regulations and should be banned from the market immediately. 15A outlet provides 1500W and 20 outlet provides 1800W. To run this amp properly you need 30A or even 50A outlet.

Those figures are peak figures and only theoretical. The A51 is internally fused with 15 amps, which means a 15A circuit will be fine.

BTW, what does FCC have to do with power consumption of a power amplifier?

5. Who needs all that power anyway? More watts means better sound at reasonable listening levels not a license to go berserk and blow your brains out.

You totally ignore that speaker efficiency plays an important role in this.

For instance say that you have a very high-efficient horn speaker with 104dB/1W/1m sensitivity. You feed this with a 10 W amplifier. The maximal sound pressure level (SPL) you can achieve at 10' listening distance is 107.4 dB.

Now, if I try to feed my 85db/1W/1m Magnepan speakers with that same 10 W amp, I will have to settle with a peak SPL of 88.3 dB! If I want the same 107.4 dB out of my speakers, I will need an 800 W amplifier!

So, while a 10 W amp might be enough for your speakers, I need the 800 W that my JC1 can deliver in 4 ohms.

If you upgrade to a 25 W amp only to get 111.3 dB, I can't compete with your SPL any more. I don't think my maggies can handle the 2000 W required for 111.3 dB :rofl:

SPL Calculator

Conclusion: Some speakers NEED big amps

Peter

[Marshal]

It is true that normally 25 watts or less goes into the speakers. Still, due to the high idle bias current, the amps consume a lot even when idle. I think the A51 uses about 250W in idle mode.

I meant 25W output from amplifier not amplifier consumption which are different things.

If you don't believe me, read about what happened to this guy when he plugged a pair of JC1's into his PS Audio Power Plant

Power Plants have certain rated output which means if you plug something that needs 700W in P500 then it will not work. JC1 are monoblocks which means that you need two power plants P1000 to plug both of them plus P500 for the rest of your system. This is what he did:

I plugged them directly into the PS Audio P600 Power Plant

Maximum power consumption at full 4 ohm load for each JC1 is 1200W while P600 power plant can generate up to 600W. 2400W>>600W.