No output to sub with 2-channel audio?

[Snippermanden]

I have what is probably just a newbie question.

Phillips DVD 963SA connected via optical to Halo C2. When i'm playing multichannel audio like DVD's there is no problem with sub output. But when I put in a regular music-CD there is no output to my sub. What am Im doing wrong here?

Thanks in advance for any hints....

[Scarp]

I have what is probably just a newbie question.

Phillips DVD 963SA connected via optical to Halo C2. When i'm playing multichannel audio like DVD's there is no problem with sub output. But when I put in a regular music-CD there is no output to my sub. What am Im doing wrong here?

Thanks in advance for any hints....

Hi,

I suspect you have your front speakers setup as "Large" speakers. For stereo sources, the C2 will not pass anything to the subwoofers, since your speakers can handle it. And stereo sources do not have an LFE (the .1 in 2.1, 5.1, etc).

For normal DTS/DD sources, there is an LFE channel which will be output to your subwoofer. Also when e.g. your center or surrounds are set to "small" the output will be passed to the subwoofer.

So there are two possibilities:
1) Set your front speakers to small. This will make the C2 pass all bass below the crossover to be passed to the subwoofer.
2) Turn on "Enhanced bass" mode. This will also output bass from the "Large" speakers (in stereo these are only your fronts) to the subwoofer. I would recommend against using this in DTS/DD mode where you have an LFE channel.

Since option 2 gives bass doubling, you should set the crossover of your subwoofer to about the -3dB point of your front speakers. This will make the subwoofer takeover all low basses at the point that your fronts cannot produce it correctly anymore. For multichannel sources, you should turn off the subwoofer crossover and only rely on the crossover set in the C2.

Hope this makes bit sense to you.

[Chris D]

Yeah, what he said.




CHRIS
Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"

[Snippermanden]

Thanks for the input. That was the first thing I looked into ;-)

All my speakers are set to small. I have tried with enhanced bass on and off. The only thing that works is if I use the analog output from the CD-Player ;-(

[Scarp]

Thanks for the input. That was the first thing I looked into ;-)

All my speakers are set to small. I have tried with enhanced bass on and off. The only thing that works is if I use the analog output from the CD-Player ;-(

If you have set your fronts to small and have subwoofer to "yes" (and selected a correct crossover), then with digital stereo sources I would expect subwoofer output too. So this is very strange.
How does the music sound through your fronts? Do you miss bass? Does it differ when u put the fronts to large?

[Omen]

Snippermanden,

I can confirm what others in this thread have said about the sub output in Stereo mode -

Setting my front speakers to Large while using Stereo mode sends all frequencies to my fronts; the sub is not used.

When I set my fronts to Small while using Stereo mode, the lower frequencies are sent to the sub.

I'm running a Sony CDP-M333ES 400 CD changer via optical into a Monarchy DIP 24/96, then coax out into the C2. My C2's software version is 6.52.

Maybe your software is old. What version do you have?

[smalone]

I have sub output when speakers are set to large but I have to enable enhanced bass in order to get it to work. As soon as I turn on enhanced bass the subs kick in. Strange.

I'm running a Pioneer 300 CD changer via optical. My C2's software version is 6.52.

[Chris D]

Omen, yes, 6.52 is the most recent software release, so you're as current as you can get!




CHRIS
Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"

[Scarp]

I have sub output when speakers are set to large but I have to enable enhanced bass in order to get it to work. As soon as I turn on enhanced bass the subs kick in. Strange.

I'm running a Pioneer 300 CD changer via optical. My C2's software version is 6.52.

Not strange, but completely as specified.

Large fronts means no subwoofer output on stereo sources unless you have enhanced bass mode on. This will give bass doubling (since you pass full range bass to your fronts and your subwoofer), therefor you should use the crossover of your subwoofer at the -3 dB point of your fronts. This will make sure that the subwoofer takes over at the point where your fronts cannot handle low values.

Small fronts means that the internal C2/C1 crossover is used (if you have set it).

[netarc]

Chiming in re: S/W output w/2ch audio ... note that STEREO96 mode appear to disable the s/w output and automatically treat the fronts as "large" (regardless of how you've configured them?), per the following thread:

Stereo96 mode disables subwoofer?

http://www.htguide.com/CFBoards/index.cfm?fuseaction=Threads.viewthread&Tid=86821&Forum=40&StartRow=1&CFB=1

(link edited by moderator to be functional)

[Scarp]

Just to be clear on the subject:
- Stereo mode uses bass management (for unbalanced, balanced and
digital inputs). These are all put through the DSP.
- Stereo Bypass (only on the balanced input) does not use bass
management. This input is not put through the DSP.
- Stereo96 does not use bass management. This input is put through the
DSP.
- Surround modes always use bass management. These are put through
the DSP.
- Multichannel analogue input does not use bass management. This input
is not put through the DSP.

Enhanced bass can be used in case you have your fronts setup as Large and still want your subwoofer to participate.

Also make sure you have your crossover setup correctly in the setup.

Bass managment use means that bass (below the crossover) from any "small" speaker is routed to the subwoofer.
When a speaker is set "large" it will receive the full signal always.

[smalone]

- Stereo balanced does use bass management

Last line should be corrected to Un-Balanced.

I have found that setting the speakers to large helps with the sound even if the speakers are bookshelves.

[Scarp]

- Stereo balanced does use bass management

Last line should be corrected to Un-Balanced.

I have found that setting the speakers to large helps with the sound even if the speakers are bookshelves.

No, thats correct. I changed the list a bit. Balanced input can by in normal mode (through DSP) and in Bypass mode.

[smalone]

Thanks for the clarification Scarp.

Maybe an example or two will help some with understanding.

In my case my front mains have a FR (freq response) of 45-20kHz (-3dB) so if I set my mains to large they will receive the full range of 0-20kHz (or what ever maybe coming from the source) but in reality will only be producing 45-20kHz (or more realisticly lets say 50 or 55 Hz and up). So with enhanced bass off I would lose everything below 45Hz, but with enhanced bass on and the crossover set to 50Hz on the C2 (C2 will not let me set at 45Hz) then I should be getting everything from 50Hz and below from the subwoofer and everything from 45 and up from the main speakers with possible double bass from 45-50 Hz (if the mains actually were to go down to 45Hz with no roll-off).

Make sense? Did I explain correctly?

[Scarp]

Thanks for the clarification Scarp.

Maybe an example or two will help some with understanding.

In my case my front mains have a FR (freq response) of 45-20kHz (-3dB) so if I set my mains to large they will receive the full range of 0-20kHz (or what ever maybe coming from the source) but in reality will only be producing 45-20kHz (or more realisticly lets say 50 or 55 Hz and up). So with enhanced bass off I would lose everything below 45Hz, but with enhanced bass on and the crossover set to 50Hz on the C2 (C2 will not let me set at 45Hz) then I should be getting everything from 50Hz and below from the subwoofer and everything from 45 and up from the main speakers with possible double bass from 45-50 Hz (if the mains actually were to go down to 45Hz with no roll-off).

Make sense? Did I explain correctly?

First note, crossovers are not hard brick wall, so if the crossover is 50 Hz there will be some sound send to your speaker below 50 Hz and vice versa some above 50 Hz to the subwoofer. The only brick wall is the 120 Hz of the LFE channel in Dolby Digital signals.

That said, if you would set the fronts to small and want the subwoofer to take over where the speakers leave off the best setting is a bit higher than your exact -3dB. Sometimes its recommended 1.5x the -3dB. In your case about 70 Hz would be a better choice in case you set your fronts to small.

What I am still not sure off, is if the crossover set in the C1/C2 is used in enhanced bass. Will in enhanced bass the subwoofer only get signals below the set crossover? If it does, then what u write seems correct, however it can be a problem with small rears that have a less low going range. Since there is only crossover you will have to find a compromise. Changing the crossover constantly for each mode seems a bit annoying.
I don't have a subwoofer, so can anyone test if the enhanced bass setting uses the crossover.
If not then you will have to use the crossover that is on your subwoofer. Most subs have a on/off switch for their internal crossover. For movies you will turn this off, for surround you turn it on.

One of the features that I would like to have in my C2 is different crossovers for different speaker groups and different sound modes. So you can setup your speakers for Stereo exactly what you want it to be and set it up differently for DTS or DD. Besides that you can set the best crossover for each speaker group, e.g. 100 Hz for small rears, 70 Hz for your bigger center, etc.

However I suspect Parasound can't implement this because of THX directives. Any change in this area would probably mean negotiations with the THX people.

Hmm... my story seems to be getting long

The ideal situation is to get one setup that will suit your choice. I keep my fronts as large and surrounds as small. For music I will only use my fronts and for surround my fronts will take over LFE and bass from the surrounds. (I don't have a subwoofer, otherwise my subwoofer would do this).

Ow... you could also use one of the programmable outputs to create your subwoofer channel for you. These outputs can have different high pass/low pass filters.