Halo C2 vs Rotel RSP 1098

[Krzysztof W]

I have to ask this question as I am in the process of upgrading. Did anybody make head to head comparison of those two fine machines?

Krzysztof W

[Whistler]

Hi,

I think Scarp can help you .




The Mainframe

[Scarp]

I have to ask this question as I am in the process of upgrading. Did anybody make head to head comparison of those two fine machines?

Krzysztof W

Hi,

I had the 1098 for about one and a half months and returned it to the dealer and got the C2 instead.

First I would like to point out that the C2 is more expensive than the 1098, so real comparison is a bit unfair. Both are very good in their price ranges.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages.
1098:
+ Sound is very good. Both in stereo and in surround.
+ Analogue bypass.
+ All the new formats.
+ Design similar to all current Rotel equipment
+ Lots of analogue inputs/outputs and lots digital inputs and outputs.
+ TFT removes the use for OSD on a TV or Projector.
- The TFT glows constantly. Can be turned off, but that has to be done
again after shutting it down once.
- 12 volt triggers only work on sources, not on other events. No
programmable delay.

C2:
+ Very good sound.
+ Balanced connections (one input and for all channels an output)
+ 12 volts triggers can be programmed with a delay, polarity and trigger
event
+ Lots of analogue inputs. Alos several digital inputs
+ Very nice looks. Obviously complements Parasound Halo
+ Clear dot matrix display, which looks good and provides all the info.
+ Autocalibration
+ THX Ultra2
- Less digital outputs than the 1098 (not that I used them)
- In dark theatres that lights on the unit can be disturbing (depending
on the position in the room)

This is just some of the things. In general the C2 has more features and things on it. Also it has some programmable output (its marketed as 7.5).
The 1098 still has enough features, but a bit less, but its more cheap.

Soundwise ... my preference goes to the C2. In combination with my parasound amp it makes a sound that is deep in the bass, good and tight. Lots of detail.

Both units are good units and have their own sound.
I would say that you just go audition both units.

[Krzysztof W]

Hi Scarp

first let me state that most I care is the multichannel music and two channel stereo. Therefore let me ask you which processor you prefer for two channel stereo and for SACD and DVD-A (in 5.1 mode). I did make an extensive session with RP1098 and I came up impressed. Unfortunately there is no C2 avalaible in the neighborhood (Indianapolis, IN). On the other hand you can get stock B C2 for $2500, which seems to be great price and make me salivate anytime I think about DAC board

best

Krzysztof

[Chris D]

Heheheheheeeee.... okay, this was bound to happen sooner or later, a head-to-head performance review between Parasound and Rotel, with these two clubs here on HTGuide. I don't know of any other comparison reviews, but thanks for the good info, Scarp! I'll link this message to Club Rotel as well.




CHRIS
Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"

[Scarp]

Hi Scarp

first let me state that most I care is the multichannel music and two channel stereo. Therefore let me ask you which processor you prefer for two channel stereo and for SACD and DVD-A (in 5.1 mode). I did make an extensive session with RP1098 and I came up impressed. Unfortunately there is no C2 avalaible in the neighborhood (Indianapolis, IN). On the other hand you can get stock B C2 for $2500, which seems to be great price and make me salivate anytime I think about DAC board

Hi,

Stereo:
The 1098 can use an analogue bypass. This way no processing is done at all. The analogue signal is fed into the volume control right away. This adds a minimum of influence of the 1098 to the sound. I used this method with my CD player (Rotel RCD991) on the 1098. The result was very good. To my knowledge I more or less only heard the cd player and not the pre/pro.
The C2 does do processing on the analogue signals coming in from RCA inputs. The only analogue bypass that it has is through the balanced input. I haven't tried that analogue bypass. I do prefer the DAC of the C2 over the ones in the Rotel player. So I have it hooked up through a digital coax now. The sound is more clear and more depth than when using the analogue way on both the C2 and the 1098.

Both the 1098 and C2 pass the multichannel input directly to the outputs, with no processing in between. The C2 even has a seperate volume control for that (which I think is more of an design issue than something that is really needed). Both pass more or less unaltered signals and I hear very little difference.

The biggest difference that I hear is in digital processing. I find the C2 to be the better one in that. But its a personal taste also. I just find the total combination of the A51 and the C2 more pleasing than a 1098 with a 1095 (or even the 1090 for my fronts).

That B stock is an incredible price. If I where to live in America, I would buy it without hasitation

Anyway... conclusion that I have found: the 1098 does a very good job at many points, but the C2 is just a bit ahead. This is no suprise to me considering the higher price (not taking B stock into account) of the C2.

Besides that, if I where you I would definitly take a look at the TFT screen of the 1098 and see if you like it or not. If I had taken a more close look at the 1098 I would have not bought it most likely. My biggest complain about the 1098 is that without the TFT screen (and with a good implemented normal dot matrix display) it would have been a cheaper and better machine. They added the TFT without having much control over it (which Rotel confirmed on this forum actually) and without maximizing its use.

From Chris D I heard that the Parasound did a better job on their screen on the C1.

[Rags]

IMHO the Parasound is quite a bit ahead of the Rotel for sound quality from digital sources. I have tried both extensively now and for movies which is my main concern the Parasound is smoother in the treble, bass is tighter and effects are simply a notch above. Real world noise levels are lower too.

The LCD screen on the Rotel has a certain wow factor but that really wasnt important to me. Anyway the C2 in the looks dept has the beating of the Rotel and for that matter most other processors as well, but thats my personal preference.

In my testing I hooked up the 1098 and the C2 to first a Rotel 1095 power amp and then to the Parasound A51. I already owned a 1095 and wanted to know whether it would be worthwhile changing. Again the differences were significant and I chose the A51. Dont get me wrong I loved my 1095 and for the price there isnt much to touch it in the UK -however if your willing to spend the extra the A51 really is a notch above.

I tried a number of other processors but picked the C2 based on it's performance and price - the Lexicon MC8 was also in my thoughts but I decided not to pay the extra even though I felt it had the beating of the C2.

If B stock C2's are available for USD2,500 thats a joke and if they are really like brand new and come with warranty then it's a no brainer


By the way has anyone tried the Halo combo with B&W Nautilus 803's or any other speaker from the Nautilus range ? My jaw dropped when I heard the soundfield. Simply stunning - I think it's the power of the amp that really gives the 803's a serious workout. If I had the money I would have bought them straight away with the matching centre channel - heres to saving

[Krzysztof W]

There is also another natural question to ask. How does the Rotel XS processing compare to THX ULTRA2 . I do have RSP1066 and the other day I started to watch "Woodstock" on Cinemax and I just could not stop I did have 7-channel full of this beautiful thing. Is THX ULTRA2 really that superior or the Rotel processing should do?

best

Krzysztof

[Scarp]

By the way has anyone tried the Halo combo with B&W Nautilus 803's or any other speaker from the Nautilus range ? My jaw dropped when I heard the soundfield. Simply stunning - I think it's the power of the amp that really gives the 803's a serious workout. If I had the money I would have bought them straight away with the matching centre channel - heres to saving

I use B&W N804's and an HTM1. The result is indeed stunning.
(also try kimber cables together in that system, its a good match: B&W, parasound and kimber )

I cant test Rotel XS and THX Ultra since I have a 5.1 system. In general I find THX to flatten out the sound more. Only my older Onkyo receiver I tested it a few times and always just came back to just forcing DTS-ES or DD-Ex on 5.1 sources (I did have a 7.1 speaker setup for a while).

Audioadvisor has some nice b-stock and from another thread here, they told me those units are like new with full warranty. Some of the units are former review units (send to reviewers in the past).

[Chris D]

I know one thing... I'm not selling off MY Halo review unit from Parasound!

You'll have to pry those components from my cold, dead fingers which will be clutched in icy death around that MX-700 remote.

I'm curious for the public in general-- do you guys find it has any merit when reviewers choose to buy the units they review and not just audition and then send back?




CHRIS
Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"

[Krzysztof W]

Hey

thanks to all for the wisdom. I feel secure now. I guess I see the road trip in the nearest future (meaning this week). It is only like 250 miles from Indy to Audioadvisor shop in Michigan and if I will not do this right away I have to wait until I will be back from sabbatical in early May. Hence the final question. There are rumors about the upgrades (in particular DACS) for C2. Is it worthy to wait couple of month for an improved version? What do you feel? From what I heard from Scarp and Chris the processor is almost perfect now

best

and thanks again

Krzysztof

[Chris D]

Krzysztof- (that's an interesting username, by the way, is that your last name? What's the background?)

Well, if I were you, which I'm not, obviously, I would wait a few months. While Parasound hasn't promised anything, either in terms of specific upgrades OR the scheduled release dates of them, we may see upgrades somewhat soon in the future. First, the Halo models have been out for around a year now, and many advances have happened in processing technology, as well as I'm sure Parasound has come up with some things they'd like to upgrade in the Halo models. (Dolby Pro Logic IIx would be an example, although I have no idea if Parasound intends to add this or not) But realize that CES is coming up soon in the middle of January, and many companies announce new releases and upgrades at those types of conventions. So although I don't know anything specific, and don't want to get anyone's hopes up, I wouldn't be too surprised if we see some announcements from Parasound in a month or so, about Halo upgrades and/or new equipment.




CHRIS
Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"

[Scarp]

But then again, the current version still is great and if you can buy it cheap now (and are in need of something now), its still a pretty sweet deal for those b-stock units.

Those upgrades can probably also be done on the current machines out there. And I doubt a lot of the upgrades will be on newer initial models for free.

But still, it won't hurt to wait till the CES and see what they will annouce.

[Krzysztof W]

Hi Guys

let me add one more thing which I learnt going through the threads here. It seems that there is no doubt that digital processing of Halo C2 is superior to the one in RSP 1098 (hence of course in 1066 which I own at the moment). As far as music, whether 5.1 or simply two channel analoque pass-through, it is much less clear. However, you guys really love the sound of your Halo 5 channel amplifiers. I have to believe Scarp, as he did have Rotel amplifiers, and he is quite convinced that he made a significant progress by introducing Halo amplifier in his system. I did listen to quite a few myself (of course in the lower end range price) and I found the sound of Rotel amplifiers really quite satisfying. Of course I have not heard Halo amplifiers. I do have RMB 1075 and RB 1080 (for two front channels) at the moment and they seem to me to be really great. Of course If I would have much more money... . However I think that upgrade of my processor is the most important issue for me at the moment.

By the way Krzysztof is Christopher in Polish, so everybody here in Indianapolis call me Chris

best and of course enjoy your Halo gear

Krzysztof

[Scarp]

If you already have Rotel amps, then you cant really go wrong with getting the 1098. First of all they have the same looks and secondly they have the rotel sound.

A C2 will look out of place between those rotel amps

And yes, the A51/C2 combo is a big step up from the 1098/RB1090/RMB1075 that I had before.

[efarstad]

Hey guys...just wanted to chime in and mention something from what I'm reading. Making statements like "this or that is superior over another" is good to share but remember that is the case for each individual, based on their setup, the speakers they heard or use, and the amps (as have been mentioned). What works for me, may not work for someone else...so to say something is superior is in fact opinion and not fact. So be careful in making claims that something is flat out better than something else, it may be for you, but others could probably jump right in and claim the opposite and we want to keep this a fun place to share our experiences and not to begin a bashing of equipment (not that anyone is doing that, I just want to share a friendly reminder that's all).

I for one think both the 1098 and the C2 are amazing processors and believe owners of both are VERY fortunate and will find enjoyment out of them for years to come!

E





The Norwegian A/V Nut!
E-Cinema

[Scarp]

true!

Audio is a subjective matter and personal to everybody. What sounds good in one persons ears might be bad in another persons ear.

To me the upgrades from Rotel to Parasound where definitly worth it, but its depends on the rest of the equipment in your situation.

At a certain price range there are no bad surround controllers, but they differ in sound, features, looks, etc.

[Chris D]

True, E. While I found Halo equipment to be a step up from Rotel for my own personal needs, whether it be slight nor not and only from my limited experience with Rotel products, it should also be pointed out that Halo units are also generally higher cost than Rotel equivalents. So you'll never have a true apples-to-apples comparison of any two products in the A/V market.

Both Rotel and Parasound offer amazing performance for their price ranges!




CHRIS
Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"

[Rags]

Scarp / Chris - have you guys noticed a humming problem with HALO equipment ? I never noticed it when I demod it and my A51 and C2 still havent arrived yet but I have been reading on another forum about a number of people getting a hum from the controller itself and not just from the speakers..

[Scarp]

Scarp / Chris - have you guys noticed a humming problem with HALO equipment ? I never noticed it when I demod it and my A51 and C2 still havent arrived yet but I have been reading on another forum about a number of people getting a hum from the controller itself and not just from the speakers..

Nope... never had any problems with it. Both my Halo units are completly quiet.

[Chris D]

Hmmmm... no, sorry. Since you mention it, though, I'll keep an eye/ear open for it.




CHRIS
Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"

[goose]

I've read another post where 2 users have experienced hum and one has said he has problems with his electrical system. He also believes there may be a ribbon cable picking up some interference.

I personally know of 5 people other than myself in my area with Halo product and none have any hum.

[Scarp]

I read the same on another forum. They also had a problem with their optical digital inputs. It seems that some units had a cable disconnected which caused the hum. After connecting it, the unit was fine.

One also seperate a hum from a little hiss. I get a little white/pink noise from my tweeters. This can only be heard when having my ear pressed to the speaker.

If anyone experiences this hum, you should contact your dealer for getting this fixed.

[MarkStega]

Hum:

My A51 arrived a couple of weeks before my C2, so I temporarily used my Pioneers VSX-29Tx as a pre-amp, connected to the A51 with unbalanced connectors. Tremendous hum, which was mitigated by switching the "ground lift" on the A51 to "lift" and by connecting a grounding wire from the A51 to the VSX-29Tx. 95% of the hum was gone, so I decided to live with the bit that was left until the C2 became part of the system.

When the C2 arrived, I connected it using balanced cables (BlueJean) and the result was no hum at all from any source. I didn't explore further with this excellent outcome.




Mark Stega

[Chris D]

Interesting. I've seen people post that they've had a hiss created WITH the balanced connections and very efficient speakers, that was solved by going to the unbalanced. But this is the first I've heard of a hum/hiss vice-versa using unbalanced that was fixed by going to balanced. (which actually makes more sense)




CHRIS
Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"

[Scarp]

There is a big difference between a Hum and a Hiss. Humming is usually caused by groundloops or powercables to close to your interlinks.

Hissing has some other cause, badly connected cables or just general noise. I havent tried balanced yet on my system, but I hope it will remove the bit of hiss that I have.

[MarkStega]

Humming & Hissing:

I had a definite 60hz hum when I was using the Pioneer as a front end to the A51, hence the benefit of raising the groud switch and bonding the two components.

With the C2/A51 and balanced connectors, if I crank the C2 to maximum volume with a source (such as DVD) selected but no input occuring (DVD stopped), the corresponding analog input autoselects. I can hear an incredibly faint hiss if I get right next to the speakers (M&K 150's). This volume level is way beyond normal listening levels. Dropping the volume to normal levels, I can not detect the hiss at all. And of course, with program materal, no hiss is intruding.




Mark Stega

[Rags]

Will keep my fingers crossed.....I hate hiss and hum...

[Chris D]

Hiss and hum? Wasn't that a U2 album? :LOL:




CHRIS
Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"