Rotel RSP 1098 Wish List V1.0

**Scarp** · 18 October 2003, 11:42 Saturday

Good suggestions, but I know THX is out of the question since the 1098 will be more expensive if they need to do THX certification.

**Andrew Pratt** · 18 October 2003, 22:19 Saturday

Nice comprehensive list:T

i'll add they need to address the incorrect decoding of DTS-ES signals as well since it currently doesn't work properly.

I like your suggestion of the LFE limiter as well...that would be very handy for those of us with DIY subs that will try to play what ever we send them

**Scarp** · 19 October 2003, 02:50 Sunday

So, is anybody going to give Rotel this list? I find them good suggestions.

I also posted some wishes for the use of the TFT in another thread. They should make more use of it, so when switching sources show all of them with the current one highlighted, this is easier to know which way to turn the knob. Also make it possible to have some sources left out of that list (the ones I'm not using anyway).

For turning off the screen completly you always need to use the remote, but maybe pressing the display button on the unit itself would turn off the screen also.

**Aussie Geoff** · 20 October 2003, 09:10 Monday

Thanks for the feedback to date (some by private Email). I've had several new interesting suggestions that I am saving up for an update in a new post to this thread in the next couple of days. I'll also inlcude the TFT feedback above which I have asked for more details on.

Also, in an effort to gather some broader input I've placed a posting in the Receivers/Separates/Amps forum of http://www.hometheaterforum.com titled "Great PrePro Features you depend on or need" where I am referring people to this thread and soliciting feedback from users of other major brand HT Prepros as to the key features they use or need. I expect to get some useful real world feedback from the non Rotel community here that can only extend and further validate the above list.

**Andrew Pratt** · 20 October 2003, 10:47 Monday

So, is anybody going to give Rotel this list

Rotel watches this forum and I sent the URL to my contacts as well so yes they know about it

**Aussie Geoff** · 22 October 2003, 11:15 Wednesday

Thanks everyone so far,

A quick update. I've had some great feedback by Email from this forum and some others. I'm still waiting on a couple of clarifications on suggestions and then I'll do an update over the weekend. Some excellent new suggestions, some reminders on some old suggestions I'd missed and some improvements on the already posted suggestions.

I've been given links to the manuals of all the main competitors to the 1098 as well to help highlight some of the feature differences. There are some key relatively common gaps that some of the advanced users see, particularly in the bass management that seem important so a number of people. I'm just trying to consolidate these. Should make for interesting reading...

So get any feedback in by Friday night so I can complete a major update....

Thanks

**Andrew Pratt** · 23 October 2003, 19:30 Thursday

Here's what Rotel had to say about our list so far...

Firmware – Bass Processing

Speaker Options of “SMALL/LARGE/MAX”

Request: Option to define a speaker as “MAX” whereby deep bass from other “SMALL” speakers would get redirected to “MAX” speakers. If no speaker is MAX then it would go to the subwoofer.

Benefits: Finer control of bass redirection logic between speakers and sub-woofers.

It's against Dolby requirement. So we can't do it.

Separate Control of the Two Subwoofer Pre-outs
Request: Ability to separately control the two Subwoofer Pre-outs to control the type of signal received so that the option to have one subwoofer covering the LFE channel and the other covering redirected Bass exists. As an example this could be done by having speaker types of SUB1 and SUB2 with the following choices:

NO – Off

YES – LFE and Redirected Bass sent as now

MAX – LFE and Redirected Bass also sent to MAX speakers

LFE – Only LFE bass sent

RBASS – Only Redirected Bass Sent

This could also extend to the ADVANCED speaker modes where people could have the second Sub on for certain source types (Dolby Digital and DTS and off for others.
Benefits: Finer control of bass redirection logic in set-ups with two subwoofers.

It's against Dolby requirement. So we can't do it.

Centre Speaker “LARGE”
Request: Option to make the Centre Speaker “LARGE” even when the left and right are “SMALL”

Benefits: Supports set-ups with a dedicated subwoofer slaved off the speaker outputs of the centre channel.

It's against Dolby requirement. So we can't do it.

Low Bass Filter for Subwoofers
Request: Support an optional low pass filter for each subwoofer, which had a selectable cut-off frequency (e.g. 20, 16, 14, 12 and 10Hz).

Benefits: Prevent subwoofers being overdriven by very deep bass

As far as we know, there's no filter.

Volume Limiter for Subwoofers
Request: Support an optional maximum volume limiter for subwoofers.

Benefits: Prevent speakers being overdriven by very loud bass.

We will study and see if we can apply.

Low Bass Filter for Speakers
Request: Support an optional low pass filter for each speaker, which had a selectable cut-off frequency (e.g. 30, 20, 16, and 12Hz).

Benefits: Prevent speakers being overdriven by very deep bass.

As far as we know, there's no filter that meets your request. If you know a filter, please advise

Variable Slope on Speaker Bass Redirection
Request: Support an optional variable slope on the bass redirection from speakers (say 24db, 18db and 12db).

Benefits: Fine tuning transfer of bass to suit the speakers characteristics and room environment.

It's against Dolby requirement. So we can't do it.

Adjustable Frequency for the Multi Input
Request: Support an adjustable frequency for the Bass redirect on the analogue Multi inputs (currently this is fixed at 100hz)

Benefits: Reduction in potential double bass between subwoofer and main speakers in the 60 to 100Hz range.

Can you please give us more detailed information on this matter ?

Room Resonance Filter
Request: Support an optional notch filter for the bass to compensate for room resonances due to standing waves. Would have a with a variable frequency volume cut value (e.g. 19hz and 7db)

Benefits: Allows compensation for the bass standing wave effect that creates a “boom” in the low bass in many HT rooms.

Can you please give us more detailed information on this matter ?

Firmware– Sound Processing

Dynamic Range Compression on all Source Types
Request: Option to implement varying degrees of dynamic range compression for all source types (DTS, Prologic, etc.) instead of just Dolby Digital.

Benefits: Supports listening at times when very loud peaks etc aren’t acceptable

Sorry, we have no idea how to do it.

Speaker Levels in 0.5db increments
Request: Option to speaker levels adjusted in 0.5db increments.

Benefits: Finer balancing of levels between different speakers.

As we are using 1dB step volume, it's not possible.

Volume Control in 0.5db increments
Request: Option to have the volume control operate in 0.5db increments.

Benefits: Finer control over master volume.

As we are using 1dB step volume, it's not possible.

Variable Speed Volume Control
Request: Additional Volume control setting of “VARIABLE” to complement the “FAST”, “MEDIUM” and “SLOW” settings. Variable would start moving in 0.5 or 1db increments and progressively speed up to 3db if pressed for an extended time.

Benefits: Allows both the fine volume adjustment of the “SLOW” setting and the rapid adjustments of the “FAST” setting.

We will study it.

Finer control of Speaker Distances
Request: Support for speaker distance settings at resolutions of 0.1m (4 inches)

Benefits: Finer matching of sound field between different speakers.

Technically it's possible, but we don't like this way...

Adjustable Crossover Setting for Contour Control
Request: Option to vary the crossover frequency for the high and low contour controls (e.g. low could be 200, 400, 800 Hz etc).

Benefits: More precise adjustment of for speaker characteristics.

Will study it.

Firmware – General

Digital Source Details Display

Request: Option to display detailed information about the nature of the digital source such as number of channels, sample size and frequency or bit rate, dialogue normalisation level etc.

Benefits: Allows details of input to be confirmed – supporting diagnosis of set-up issues with sources such as DVD players, CD players, Satellite boxes etc..

Will study it, but it'll require lots of OSD structure change, and we are not sure whether it worth, as DVDP will show most of their information..

Separate Cinema and Music Modes
Request: Option to select separate music and cinema settings for a source (e.g. DVD player or Satellite box) This could be as basic as which ProLogic II setting to use to different speaker settings for SMALL, LARGE, Contour etc.

Benefits: Simplify switching between the quite different settings required for Many two channel sources benefit from quite different settings that can be required for movies and music, especially for two channel sources.

It's very difficult to apply it as it'll not meet the Dolby's required muting time.

Master Level Normalisation by Source
Request: Option to vary the master level by plus or minus a specified number of Db for specific inputs and source type. For example adjusting the relative levels of the analogue and digital inputs for a CD player, or adjusting the level of a Satellite box to match that of a DVD player.

Benefits: Allows the master volumes of all the different source equipment to me normalised, making switching between these seamless.

Will study it.

Auto Blank Option for TFT

Request: Support for an option where the TFT display automatically blanks out after a specified period of no changes to settings (e.g. 10, 15 or 20 seconds).

Benefits: Allows for a “lights out” HT experience without the potential confusion of a permanently turned off TFT display.

We will study it, but please note that the software change related to the TFT panel Off is so complicated...

TFT Screen Off Completely

Benefits: Durring night time or low light use no distracting information flashing on the screen.

We will study it, but please note that the software change related to the TFT panel Off is so complicated...

Selectable Font Size for Volume
Request: Support selection between several font sizes for the volume display on the TFT. Say from SMALL (what we have now) to MEDIUM and LARGE.

Benefits: Allows visibility of volume setting at difference distances according to users preferences.

Under the current OSD IC, it's not possible to adjust the font size..

Bass Test Tone . As the original bass sound level is so low, it'll be hardly audible. We have to increase them artificially to make audible level, but not to hurt Sub woofer. It'll take time to study & testing..
Request: Support for a special Bass Test tone of (say) noise from 16 to 100 Hz.

Will study

**Scarp** · 24 October 2003, 01:09 Friday

I guess my usability suggestions for the OSD (which I posted in another thread a while ago) are out of the question since they regard those things as difficult and maybe not worthwhile

Too bad though. They can make much much nicer use of the TFT screen compared the (too) simple thing they have now.

**Aussie Geoff** · 24 October 2003, 09:17 Friday

Hi, This is part 1 of what will take several postings

Firstly, let me say that it's good to get a reply to many of the ideas so promptly - that's Rotel showing a real interest in customer feedback.

Having looked at the reply's from Rotel that Andrew has captured, I suspect that in many cases we have a combination of one or more factors are work:

Misunderstanding of the feature we are asking for (perhaps because I didn't provide enough information).
Lack of detailed awareness of the capabilities of competitive units.
Confusion because I have referred to a suggested implementation rather than the requirement

I am a software engineer with 28 years experience and I have a fair idea of what can be implemented in software. I also believe that some of these features the Rotel user community has identified would be a real bonus for many current or potential 1098 users and significantly increase the potential high end market opportunities for the 1098. Lastly, (as you would have guessed....) I'm stubborn and like a challenge.

As a reality check I have studied the manual of some competitive units to see what features they have. When I refer to competing units the following short names to model translations will apply:

Anthem - Is the Anthem AVM 20 running software version 2.1
B&K - Is the B&K Reference 50
Lexicon - is the Lexicon MC-12 (which I know is way more expensive but still shows what it possible...)

So, over a series of posts I will take the original requests, Rotel's response and as appropriate clarify, expand and refer to the capabilities of competing units (acknowledging that in some cases, no means no!). To clarify requirements, I may need to be a little blunt in doing this (forgive me I'm Australian!)

Lastly, as observations on the responses I have prepared below so far. In looking at competitive units, no single unit has all of the features (even for bass management) so Rotel would have an outstandingly flexible product if it implemented them (which shows what a creative bunch us Rotel users are!). Also in responding to some of the issues, the action suggestion has sometimes been further improved (no bad thing!).

Here goes....

Speaker Options of “SMALL/LARGE/MAX”
Request: Option to define a speaker as “MAX” whereby deep bass from other “SMALL” speakers would get redirected to “MAX” speakers. If no speaker is MAX then it would go to the subwoofer.

Benefits: Finer control of bass redirection logic between speakers and sub-woofers.

Rotel Response "It's against Dolby requirement. So we can't do it."

Bottom line: The underlying concept can't be against Dolby requirements since the ability to redirect bass from small speakers to large speakers while still having a subwoofer exists in varying forms competing Dolby and THX certified HT processors referenced above (Anthem, B&K and Lexicon). For example the Lexicon does it with cascading bass moving from the speakers with the highest crossover frequency progressively to those with the lowest crossover frequency and then the subwoofer! Even the 1098 does this in reverse if the subwoofer is set to MAX.

So, I again suspect I have confused the Rotel representative with the specifics of the suggested implementation. Let me explain the requirement in more detail by redefining it to remove any reference to the implementation.

Requirement: The ability to individually control whether or not a LARGE speaker receives redirected bass from SMALL speakers.

Background: Many HT implementations have musical, high quality large speakers with deep bass capability for (say) the front left and right. rear speakers may be large or small (e.g. rear side large, rear back small) As an example, a HT owner may want to redirect bass from the SMALL speakers to two nominated LARGE speakers rather than the subwoofer.

Alternative implementation: For LARGE speakers have an additional setting to control whether or not they receive redirected BASS from the SMALL speakers. For example:
REDIRECT: = NO / YES / LEFT / RIGHT
NO = No redirected Bass sent to this speaker
YES - Redirected Bass from all small speakers sent to this speaker
LEFT - Redirected Bass from all Left SMALL speakers sent to this speaker
RIGHT - Redirected Bass from all Right SMALL speakers sent to this speaker
(Note: this is a variation on what the Lexicon offers and is even better than the original suggestion!)

Separate Control of the Two Subwoofer Pre-outs
Request: Ability to separately control the two Subwoofer Pre-outs to control the type of signal received so that the option to have one subwoofer covering the LFE channel and the other covering redirected Bass exists. As an example this could be done by having speaker types of SUB1 and SUB2 with the following choices:

NO – Off
YES – LFE and Redirected Bass sent as now
MAX – LFE and Redirected Bass also sent to MAX speakers
LFE – Only LFE bass sent
RBASS – Only Redirected Bass Sent

This could also extend to the ADVANCED speaker modes where people could have the second Sub on for certain source types (Dolby Digital and DTS and off for others.
Benefits: Finer control of bass redirection logic in set-ups with two subwoofers.

Rotel Response "It's against Dolby requirement. So we can't do it."

Bottom line: Again, the underlying concept can't be against Dolby requirements since separate control of two or three subwoofer outputs is a feature of two of the competing Dolby and THX certified HT processors referenced above (Anthem and Lexicon). The Lexicon goes as far has having 3 subwoofer outs marked LEFT, LFE and RIGHT, but which are software controlled to do almost any combination of bass for each of them!

So, I also suspect I have again confused the Rotel representative with the specifics of the suggested implementation. Let me explain the requirement in more detail by redefining it to remove any reference to the implementation.

Requirement: Separate Control of the Two Subwoofer Pre-outs.

Request: Ability to separately control the two Subwoofer Pre-outs with independent settings for each covering aspects such as:

The subwoofer distance
The type of signal sent to the subwoofer (LFE, All Redirected bass, Redirected Bass from Left speakers, Redirected Bass from Right Speakers, LFE and Redirected Bass)

Background: Many HT implementations have two subwoofers in various configurations. For example there may be a musical subwoofer and an additional subwoofer for HT use (e.g. a "butt kicker" or similar). Equally there may be a separate subwoofer for left and right sides of the room. This option allows HT users to control the way these multiple subwoofers are used, rather than slaving them off the one set of settings.

Alternative implementation: Support multiple settings for each subwoofer such as:
LFE: = NO / YES
REDIRECT = LEFT / RIGHT / FRONT / REAR
(Note: this is a variation on what the Lexicon offers and is even better than the original suggestion!)

Centre Speaker “LARGE”
Request: Option to make the Centre Speaker “LARGE” even when the left and right are “SMALL”

Benefits: Supports set-ups with a dedicated subwoofer slaved off the speaker outputs of the centre channel.

Rotel Response "It's against Dolby requirement. So we can't do it."

Bottom line: This is starting to sound like a pattern. Once again all three competing Dolby and THX certified HT processors referenced above (Anthem, B&K and Lexicon) support this!

In this case I can't think of a different way of describing it, or an improved way of specifying it. So I'll leave the request as is...

Low Bass Filter for Subwoofers
Request: Support an optional low pass filter for each subwoofer, which had a selectable cut-off frequency (e.g. 20, 16, 14, 12 and 10Hz).

Benefits: Prevent subwoofers being overdriven by very deep bass

Rotel Response "As far as we know, there's no filter."

Bottom Line: For digitally processed signals this hi-pass filter can be implemented in software by mathematically processing the digital signals (in the same way as for bass redirection). It's the exact equivalent of the bass redirect processing that happens on SMALL speakers, except the cut-off frequency is lower and the bass is thrown away rather than redirected. This filter is intended to remove subsonic signals that could otherwise overdrive subwoofers that don't have subsonic filters in them (many DIY subs don't) and would be a 24db per octave filter. Interestingly as far as I can tell none of the three competing units offer this feature.

Volume Limiter for Subwoofers
Request: Support an optional maximum volume limiter for subwoofers.

Benefits: Prevent speakers being overdriven by very loud bass.

Rotel Response "We will study and see if we can apply."

Observation: This seems to be actually quite a technically challenging feature compared to the ones covered above. For example the Anthem (who’s manual has a good description of this feature), refers to “The Bass Peak Level Manager ‘Looks Ahead’ at the bass signal and reduces the chance that your speakers will overload by tailoring bass output to match their capabilities”. Sounds a “fun thing” for the software to do! However both the Lexicon and the Anthem have it so...

Low Bass Filter for Speakers
Request: Low Bass Filter for Speakers
Request: Support an optional low pass filter for each speaker, which had a selectable cut-off frequency (e.g. 30, 20, 16, and 12Hz).

Benefits: Prevent speakers being overdriven by very deep bass.

Rotel Response "As far as we know, there's no filter that meets your request. If you know a filter, please advise."

Bottom Line: Again, as for the suggested low bass filter for Subwoofers, for digitally processed signals this hi-pass filter can be implemented in software by mathematically processing the digital signals (in the same way as for bass redirection). It's the exact equivalent of the bass redirect processing that happens on SMALL speakers, except the cut-off frequency is lower and the bass is thrown away rather than redirected. This filter is intended to remove deep bass signals that could otherwise overdrive speakers and would be a 24db per octave filter. The Lexicon offers this as a feature, but the filters frequencies don’t go as low as suggested here.

Variable Slope on Speaker Bass Redirection
Request: Support an optional variable slope on the bass redirection from speakers (say 24db, 18db and 12db).

Benefits: Fine tuning transfer of bass to suit the speaker’s characteristics and room environment.

Rotel Response "It's against Dolby requirement. So we can't do it."

Bottom Line: I don’t know if this feature is really against Dolby requirements. However, other than for the Lexicon – which offers one 12db per octave slope for THX 80Hz mode, the other main processors seem to use fixed 24db slopes. So – unless someone want’s to push for this feature – let’s let it go...

More to come in the next post....

**Andrew Pratt** · 24 October 2003, 11:48 Friday

Aussie M&K doesn't make a processor...I believe you're refering to B&K

**Scarp** · 24 October 2003, 11:51 Friday

I don't know but I get a feeling that "It's against Dolby requirement. So we can't do it" actually means "the library we get from cirrus doesn't support it, so we cannot implement it since its out of our control" (they use a cirrus logic chip for decoding).

Just as geoff, I am a software engineer with lots of UI and usability design and the menu's and ways of presenting stuff is just terrible. They have a nice possibility to do something nice with the TFT but are totally not using it. Yes I know sound quality is important, but why put a TFT in it if sound quality is more important?

Geoff, you do have to realize that comparing the 1098 to the MC12 is unfair, since the MC12 is lots and lots more expensive. Comparing to the AVM Anthem is more fair indeed. If Rotel really wants to beat the competition they should look at their competition a bit more.

Anyway ... in normal use I am very happy with the 1098 as it is now, but there is much improvement that can be done

**Aussie Geoff** · 24 October 2003, 11:58 Friday

Andrew,

You're right - I mean the B&K Reference 50 - I'll correct the post above to avoid further confusion. Seem to keep calling it the B&K for some reason.... Must be those nice B&W speakers....

Regards

Geoff Costello

**Aussie Geoff** · 24 October 2003, 19:50 Friday

Hi, This is part 2 of what will take several postings

It would be easy for a non 1098 owner to read this list and think "wow there's lots wrong with / missing from the 1098". The reality is it sounds awesome and is a world class processor with many features not found in most other HT processors. It's just that this list focuses on things that Rotel 1098 owners (or others who have considered the Rotel) would also like to see (hard to please some people)! We HT lovers are a dedicated bunch and it is these kind of "pushing the envelope" requests that have continued to make HT processors and the HT experience better and better!

More response to Rotel feedback to date....

Adjustable Frequency for the Multi Input
Request: Support an adjustable frequency for the Bass redirect on the analogue Multi inputs (currently this is fixed at 100hz)

Benefits: Reduction in potential double bass between subwoofer and main speakers in the 60 to 100Hz range.

Rotel Response "Can you please give us more detailed information on this matter?"

Bottom line: The problem being solved is the interaction between the original signal in the multi-inputs and the processing of the directed bass sent to the subwoofer. Take for example typical large front speakers that have native bass down to the 30-40Hz range. Under this scenario bass in these frequencies will be duplicated at the same volume in the subwoofer, effectively creating a 3db bass boost until the natural drop off of the main speakers counteracts this.

This feature is not available in the current software revision of the 3 competing processors studied, but is available in some high end HT receivers. As far as I can gather, it is implemented by, digitally processing of the duplicated multi-inputs to apply variable bass filters for each channel approximating the roll off of each speaker. The original analogue multi inputs are sent unchanged to the speakers as pure analogue signals.

Having done the above research I suspect this may require a hardware change to implement unless the 1098 already has digital processing for the redirected bass (if it’s a fixed 100hz analogue software changes just can’t fix it.) In which case, people may need to solve the problem a different way either with one of the small but increasing number of DVD-A / SACD players with good bass management or with a separate bass manager (like the Outlaw).

Room Resonance Filter
Request: Support an optional notch filter for the bass to compensate for room resonances due to standing waves. Would have a with a variable frequency volume cut value (e.g. 19hz and 7db)

Benefits: Allows compensation for the bass standing wave effect that creates a “boom” in the low bass in many HT rooms.

Rotel Response "Can you please give us more detailed information on this matter?"

Bottom line: The problem being solved is that in many rooms there is a deep bass resonance that can create a boost (or in some cases a drop) in the bass at a narrow band of frequencies. This is a function of the size of the room and the placement of the subwoofer. To address this issue, processors such as the Anthem and B&K have both implemented the option of a notch filter on the subwoofer, where a controlled dip in the output sound is implemented at a frequency, width and value to counteract the boost in the bass introduced by the room resonance.

The settings for this filter include:[*] Filter Centre Frequency (e.g. 41hz)[*] Filter Depth (e.g. 4.5db)[*] Filter Width (e.g. 9 hz)

Again these filters are implemented digitally using software as the bas signal is processed.

THX Post Processing
Request: Implement THX post processing as an option.
Benefits: Rebalances many THX processed mixes, especially the rear channels. Also allows THX Ultra certification for the 1098.

Rotel Response: None so far.

Observation: Interesting... All three competitive processors are THX certified. Many of Rotel’s Amplifiers are THX certified. Now I wonder what is in that rumoured V2.0 software release that is under development.....

Dynamic Range Compression on all Source Types
Request: Option to implement varying degrees of dynamic range compression for all source types (DTS, Prologic, etc.) instead of just Dolby Digital.

Benefits: Supports listening at times when very loud peaks etc aren’t acceptable.

Rotel Response "Sorry, we have no idea how to do it."

Bottom line: A quick search with “Google” showed a number of papers describing how to do this. There are various algorithms but they all seem to work by digitally scaling up and down the numbers representing the signal in a logarithmic fashion matching the typical change in a volume control. For example, in a (greatly simplified view) if the range from the softest to the loudest sound is represented by digital numbers from 1 to 65535, then digital compression could progressively reduce this from 1000 to 40000 then from 2000 to 20000 etc by mathematically scaling the numbers.

The Rotel does this for Dolby Digital sources (part of the Dolby standard). Interestingly the B&K and Lexicon processors also offer this for DTS but not other digital sources. However some quite basic HT Receivers seem to offer it as an option for all digital sources and even analogue sources once they are digitised.

Speaker Levels in 0.5db increments
Request: Option to speaker levels adjusted in 0.5db increments.

Benefits: Finer balancing of levels between different speakers.

Rotel Response "As we are using 1dB step volume, it's not possible."

Bottom line: I suspect it is possible, again through mathematics except (perhaps) for pure analogue signals. Actual volume settings and adjustments in HT processors are done mathematically by digital signal processors, with 3db representing a doubling of the signal strength and smaller values such as 1db or 0.5db being mathematically derived as a proportionate change to the numbers (this is one of the reasons why HT processors do so much floating point arithmetic).

Of interest, this is offered by all three competitive HT Processors (Anthem, B&K and Lexicon) as well as higher end HT Receiver models by manufacturers such as Denon.

Volume Control in 0.5db increments
Request: Option to have the volume control operate in 0.5db increments.

Benefits: Finer control over master volume.

Rotel Response "As we are using 1dB step volume, it's not possible."

Bottom line: Same comments as for the Speaker Level adjustment request.

Variable Speed Volume Control
Request: Additional Volume control setting of “VARIABLE” to complement the “FAST”, “MEDIUM” and “SLOW” settings. Variable would start moving in 0.5 or 1db increments and progressively speed up to 3db if pressed for an extended time.

Benefits: Allows both the fine volume adjustment of the “SLOW” setting and the rapid adjustments of the “FAST” setting.

Rotel Response "We’ll study it."

Bottom line: Good. Here’s some more information to help. For example, on the variable setting the volume when pressed and held down the “UP” key on the remote control might first go up in increments of 0.5db for (say) 10 increments, after which if still held down the volume increment would change to 1db for the next 10 increments, then 2db and finally 3db etc.

Large volume changes can still be made relatively quickly, while finer adjustments up and down are still possible. With the current FAST setting, while fast volume changes are easy, it is impossible to fine tune the volume, hence I expect most people use the SLOW setting.

Finer control of Speaker Distances
Request: Support for speaker distance settings at resolutions of 0.1m (4 inches)

Benefits: Finer matching of sound field between different speakers.

Rotel Response "Technically it's possible, but we don't like this way..."

Bottom line: Firstly (and amazingly) changes this small can be audible, For example in working with a friend to set-up his subwoofer, we were adjusting his processor in 0.1m increments and found a setting of 0.2m made a big difference to the placement of bass cancellation points etc in the room. Secondly (you guessed) it the completion have resolutions finer than 1 ft or 0.3m, with 0.5 ft or 0.2m being typical.

Adjustable Crossover Setting for Contour Control
Request: Option to vary the crossover frequency for the high and low contour controls (e.g. low could be 200, 400, 800 Hz etc).

Benefits: More precise adjustment of for speaker characteristics..

Rotel Response "Technically We’ll study it."

Bottom line: Excellent. This should be able to be done digitally since the filter processing is just a mathematical algorithm.

That does the sound processing firmware. More to come in the next post....

**Tomek** · 24 October 2003, 20:23 Friday

Another sugestion:

Under advanced speaker settings enable varried Subwoofer settings by listening mode (2ch PCM, DTS, etc):

a) allow choice of None, Yes, Max depending on mode
b) vary low pass crossover points depending on mode

For example, I wanted to set sub to MAX only for 2 channel stereo mode (2ch PCM) and only to YES for all other formats (DTS, DD,..). Currently the subwoofer options by mode under Advanced Speaker Settings are not adjustable.

**Glenn** · 24 October 2003, 21:06 Friday

With the sheer amount of material presented in this post, the possible comments and discussion that may be generated seems enormous as well as very interesting.

I have been reading this thread with a lot of interest as I am thinking of upgrading to the 1098, at some point. Also reading the thread for the pure enjoyment of seeing what products and features Rotel is offering in their flagship model.

I want to make 3 comments, luckily they are of a less complicated nature than some of the points in discussion.

First, I would like to say "Thank you, Geoff!" An amazing amount of time and effort has gone into this thread. Not only the assembling of the suggested features from members of the Club Rotel, but also in your responses to Rotel's brief replies.

Second, I personally think the following features requested are not even remotely esoteric, and should be considered as basic features on the 1098.

Volume Control in 0.5db increments
Request: Option to have the volume control operate in 0.5db increments.
Benefits: Finer control over master volume.

Finer control of Speaker Distances
Request: Support for speaker distance settings at resolutions of 0.1m

Rotel Response "Technically it's possible, but we don't like this way..."

I am especially interested in WHY Rotel doesn't like the finer control of speaker distances. With the effect speaker placement has on sound, and the often limited ability to physically place a speaker where it "should" be (especially surround speakers), why NOT allow greater control over this parameter that would help address these distances?

Third, the TFT screen seems very limited. For Rotel not being able to even offer user control over font sizes, seems odd. Either make the screen totally flexible and worth its while, or don't include it at all. Hey, maybe with all the work Andrew does with Pronto remotes, we could just devise a way of sticking a Pronto style display onto the 1098!

We could all then customize the 1098 screen/menus as desired.

Anyway, out of all the info of the thread, these are my initial reactions and comments.

I look forward to reading more comments and info as they are posted.

**Aussie Geoff** · 25 October 2003, 09:11 Saturday

Scarp,

Thanks for the feedback. Re the Cirrus software - you could well be right - but we need to get to the bottom of it - these are widely used chips with a large customer base. They are used in some of the best competing HT Processors such as the Lexicon (but this may be Lexicon's own software). Cirrus were also one of the first to anounce an implementation of Dolby Pro Logic IIx

Re your TFT points - I agree with you they are great suggestions - I had found your old post and am still intending to add it to an updated list of suggesitons. It was going to be this weekend, but I've become distracted by the need to respond to Rotel's feedback. I'm stubborn though & won't forget....

Geoff Costello

**Aussie Geoff** · 25 October 2003, 09:22 Saturday

Glenn,

Thanks for your support and taking the time to read the quite complicated trail of posts. When I started collecting the information for the suggestions it seemed like a good way of learning about the 1098's capabilities and supporting the Rotel community. Some of the suggestions, when I first wrote them up I thought "sounds pretty esoteric". However in having to research and then "defend the cause" in the above posts, I have started to understand why people are asking for these features and like you, see some of them as real value adds for the majority of users. It is particularly interesting to read some of the excitement in older posts like the Anthem thread in www.hometheaterforum.com as the AVM-20 user base received some of the new features over the last 18 months. Clearly some of these are really useful for a proportion of HT users.

Anyhow, I've "got the taste for it now" and intend to complete the responses to Rotel's feedback before starting a new Thread with revised original suggestions and all the great new suggestions that people have since added.

Geoff Costello

**lcajiga** · 25 October 2003, 09:47 Saturday

Aussie, great post with good enhancements. Besides all that, there is still a problem with current software related to Zone 2 12v trigger. Since this is a "bug", it should't be included in this list but Rotel is already aware and working with it. I reported that some time ago but finally, they could replicate the issue.

Hope to see some of your enhancements in future upgrades including bass/speakers additional flexibility and bigger fonts.

Regards,
Luis

http://www.luiscajiga.com/HT.htm

"It is not what you see and hear...it is how!"

**Aussie Geoff** · 25 October 2003, 10:19 Saturday

Expectations on Rotel Response,

Since I've put up a fairly "brisk" argument for many of the requests so far I just thought it worthwhile to put something in context.

Firstly, I know the realities of software development and hardware restrictions.

The requests will need to be prioritised with faults and other marketing, customer and engineering requirements. This means that some may take a long time.
Some of the requests may not be possible within hardware constraints of the 1098 and may be taken on as suggestions for potential inclusion in a future generation processor. This mans that we may need to buy a new processor to get some of them.
Some of the requests may conflict with other features Rotel is planning to add, and therefore be changed to fit in with those.
Some requests may require tailoring to fit with the various licensing and certification processes of Dolby, THX, DTS etc.

So, based on this, the kind of positions that I expect will be reasonable to end up with from Rotel are along the lines of:

The suggestion has been added to the list for potential inclusion in a future release of firmware.
An alternative implementation of XXX is under consideration.
We are planning on implementing an alternative feature aimed at addressing the same area of requirement.
At this stage we do not intend to include this in the 1098 but will maintain an awareness of market demands and keep it under future consideration.
The suggestion is not possible with the current hardware implementation of the 1098, however we will consider it for future products.
Please supply more information to help us understand what is required and why.

This kind of approach is realistic given the great customer service focus of Rotel and if we (the 1098 community) do as well as our brothers in the 1066 community have over the last 18 months - we should be very happy people!

Geoff Costello

**Aussie Geoff** · 26 October 2003, 10:31 Sunday

Hi, This is part 3 and my final response to Rotel’s initial feedback

I’ve enjoyed writing the responses to date and have learnt much more than I thought I would about the capabilities of the home theatre market. The good thing is that the reviews of the 1098 keep coming in and confirming that it is one of the outstanding HT processors in the world, making the effort we are all putting in that much more worthwhile!

I’ve had lot’s of feedback by email and in other posts, plus the research I have done for this reply. I am going to prepare a totally update V1.1 thread over the next week or so that redescribes the features in a more general way and includes all of the new requests. This should provide a consolidated basis for Rotel to respond to.

More Firmware General

Digital Source Details Display

Request: Option to display detailed information about the nature of the digital source such as number of channels, sample size and frequency or bit rate, dialogue normalisation level etc.

Benefits: Allows details of input to be confirmed – supporting diagnosis of set-up issues with sources such as DVD players, CD players, Satellite boxes etc..

Rotel Response "Will study it, but it'll require lots of OSD structure change, and we are not sure whether it worth, as DVDP will show most of their information"

Bottom line: Good to see they’re looking at it. In terms of whether it is worth it, only some DVD Players show this, and of course this feature is requested for ALL digital sources. Essentially it is the 1098 giving the user details of the digital source it is processing. My view is that the 1098 must know to decode it properly, and there are many many posts of people trying to diagnose errors because they aren’t sure what the signal is they are getting (is it DTS-ES Discrete or Matrix, or is the CD player outputting a HDCD signal, etc). So this has got to be a worthwhile “ease of use” feature.

In terms of competition, the B&K and Lexicon both have this, as do many HT Receivers from manufactures such as Sony Marantz and Denon.

Separate Cinema and Music Modes

Request: Option to select separate music and cinema settings for a source (e.g. DVD player or Satellite box) This could be as basic as which ProLogic II setting to use to different speaker settings for SMALL, LARGE, Contour etc.

Benefits: Simplify switching between the quite different settings required for Many two channel sources benefit from quite different settings that can be required for movies and music, especially for two channel sources..

Rotel Response "It's very difficult to apply it as it'll not meet the Dolby's required muting time."

Bottom line: I’m not sure what this has got to do with Dolby and muting time and therefore suggest that Rotel may have misunderstood the request. As far as I understand the original suggestion, it is about having the option of two different predefined settings that can be used for the one input source so that the user can quickly toggle between them. For example with a DVD / DVD-A player the default settting may be a digital coax and the alternative the multi-inputs. With a CD Player the two settings might be pure stereo vs Dolby ProLogic II I Music mode. Its just a quick way to jump to another favourite setting for an input mode without having to toggle round in menus to do it.

So perhaps if the request was redefined as the ability to define an alternative default set of settings for each input and toggle between them it would be easier to understand? Again, looking at the competition they seem to have variations of this concept. For example; The Anthem has the concept of Cinema and Music configurations for its speakers that in tern affect the processing of its inputs.

Master Level Normalisation by Source

Request: Option to vary the master level by plus or minus a specified number of Db for specific inputs and source type. For example adjusting the relative levels of the analogue and digital inputs for a CD player, or adjusting the level of a Satellite box to match that of a DVD player.

Benefits: Allows the master volumes of all the different source equipment to me normalised, making switching between these seamless.

Rotel Response: “Will study it.”

Observation: Good. Here’s some more information to help. The Anthem has this feature for Analogue inputs only. The B&K has this for analogue and digital sources including custom levels for different types of digital signal (DTS, vs DD etc). The Lexicon (usual overkill!) has this for analogue and digital inputs including a graphics real time display of the signal levels of every channel and an “auto” option to automatically set the level.

Of course (from personal experience) this is a really valuable feature. Even my wife complains about just how much the volume varies switching between sources like a Satellite box and the DVD player.

Auto Blank Option for TFT
Request: Support for an option where the TFT display automatically blanks out after a specified period of no changes to settings (e.g. 10, 15 or 20 seconds).

Benefits: Allows for a “lights out” HT experience without the potential confusion of a permanently turned off TFT display.
.

Rotel Response "We will study it, but please note that the software change related to the TFT panel Off is so complicated..."

Bottom line: I hope Rotel finds a way, the issue of having the TFT turn on seems to be a topic of lots of posts in this and other forums. There have been suggestions of turning it off permanently, but this had understandable concerns over the potential for users to see this as a fault (forgetting that they had turned it off.

I guess any easy method of temporarily turning the display off without having it come on each time the volume is changed etc would be popular with 1098 users – so lets see what they come up with!

TFT Screen Off Completely

Benefits: During night time or low light use no distracting information flashing on the screen..

Rotel Response "We will study it, but please note that the software change related to the TFT panel Off is so complicated..."

Bottom line: See comments above re the Auto Blank Option for the TFT.

Selectable Font Size for Volume
Request: Support selection between several font sizes for the volume display on the TFT. Say from SMALL (what we have now) to MEDIUM and LARGE.

Benefits: Allows visibility of volume setting at difference distances according to users preferences..

Rotel Response "Under the current OSD IC, it's not possible to adjust the font size."

Bottom line: Again, there are a number of posts asking for this (presumably because they want to see the volume from a distance and can’t). This means there is a real need. On the positive side, I note that in one of the 2.2 releases for the RSP 1066 Rotel finally changed from a variable height bar to a number for the volume (after many requests) – so anything is possible.

Some obvious options:

A new OSD IC in new versions of the 1098 (a bit like the video bandwidth issue with the 1066)
Use the existing characters as “pixels” to have the option show a huge volume number made up of 8 or 9 lines of the existing OSD.
Have the large volume overlayed on the video out image

Bass Test Tone.

Request: Support for a special Bass Test tone of (say) noise from 16 to 100 Hz.

Benefits: More accurate setting of subwoofer volumes.

Rotel Response "As the original bass sound level is so low, it'll be hardly audible. We have to increase them artificially to make audible level, but not to hurt Sub woofer. It'll take time to study & testing. We’ll study it."

Bottom line: Good. Some of the competing processors allow for the bass tone to be at a specified frequency or to sweep slowly through a range of frequencies. This also helps with the room resonance filter or notch filter.

In terms of volumes, the test tones are set at 75db in the same way as for the normal test tones for the other speakers. (Hence no damage to the subwoofer).

It’s been fun. I’ll now spend some time with my family for the next few days before working on a new post with an extensively updated wish list V1.1...

**Frank T.** · 28 October 2003, 09:44 Tuesday

First of all - forgive me for beeing a Rotel newbie - I understand that the 12V Trigger functions can serve wonderfully to activate other Rotel power amps in the system (I presume corresponding trigger cables are enclosed to the particular power amps).

Correct?

To overcome my particular SACD/CD music versus home theatre speaker placement (ear-level or higher), I first designed a power amp diagram - slaving me to Rotel for the rest of my natural life - which fails because of insufficient Trigger availability:

RMB-1066 / 3 x 130 W (bridged) for L, C, R (Trigger # 1)

RB-1070 / 2 x 130 W for Surround Left, Surround Right (Trigger # 2)

RB-1070 / 2 x 130 W for Surround Centers Left & Right (Trigger # 3)

RB-1070 / 2 x 130 W for SACD Surrounds Left & Right (Trigger # ????)

The idea had been:

movie inputs activate Triggers 1, 2 (and 3)

SACD bypass input activates Trigger 1 and ??? (SACD surround amp)

According to the RSP-1098 the choices are Triggers 1+2+3 together, 1+2, 1+3, 2+3, ALL (including Zone 2) or NO.

It seems the possibility to assign Zone 2 to a yet to be implemented "Trigger 4" is a potential candidate for the
Wish List

IF I were able to Y-wire Trigger 2 to the movie surround and center back power amps (Trigger # 2 activates TWO power amps), I could solve the problem:

In practical applications:

movies - L,C,R (Trigger # 1), SL, SR, CB1, CB2 (Trigger # 2)

SACD / CD music - L, C, R (Trigger # 1), SACD SL & SR (Trigger # 3).

Is that technically possible? Feedback and constructive problem solution proposals are much appreciated.

Frank T.

**lcajiga** · 28 October 2003, 11:30 Tuesday

Frank, you have a solution for your current issue right now. If amps for both surrounds and back speakers (#2 and #3) always go together, then the 1070 have a trigger IN and OUT where you may piggy back a cable from the #2 to #3 and turn them on at the same time. Then for video input you activate trigger #1 and #2. The #1 will activate the amp for L/C/R and the #2 will activate the 1070 amp. for surrounds that will also trigger the 1070 amp. for the back speakers. Then the trigger #3 will be for the SACD material that will trigger the 1070 amp. for those speakers.

Regards,
Luis

http://www.luiscajiga.com/HT.htm

"It is not what you see and hear...it is how!"

Rotel RSP 1098 Wish List V1.0

Rotel RSP 1098 Wish List V1.0

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