Has anyone made the HD/blu ray jump yet? Parasound hasn't!

[phansson]

Just wondering if any other Parasound owners have made the jump to either of the new formats.

If so, do you not feel that you have a very nice processor that is not utilized?
I am ready to sell my C2 and try something that is more up to date!

It is very frustrating that you can't get the best sound possible with either of these formats unless you hook it up to the analog inputs. Using analog inputs you have no way to use a 7.1 speaker system, no DPIIx processing, no THX processing nothing!! Plus I would need at least one more set of analog inputs to run both players.

I know that parsound released an HDMI switcher, but this was a band aid fix that really didn't help me(or any other owners).

Why doesn't Parasound do a hardware upgrade for the C1/C2 for HDMI switching. I would be willing to pay for this update. I know it would be intensive but do you not feel like you are being left out in the cold?

Why is Parasound so far behind????

[hays0023]

I want this update for my Classic 7100 as well :-)

[Chetk]

What other processors are processing Dolby True-HD or DTS-HD?

[Chetk]

Also, check this thread as I was preaching the same message back in April of this year. If you want to go even further back, check this thread that was started on April of 2005. :E

[phansson]

There are no processors that I know of that will take the raw codec straight from the disc and decode it. But there are a ton of receivers and processors that will accept full bit rate PCM over HDMI.

That should do the trick. The only thing you have to worry about is when HDMI 1.3 comes out if they change the connector (probably will).

I just didn't think that the difference would be that noticeable between the DD+ via analog and the DD+ down converted to toslink. It is AMAZING how much better the analog input sounds.

Of course they are working hard on a $1500 DVD player that up converts to "high definition". :B They might sell about 4 of them.

[misterdoggy]

I think Anthem does hdmi switching and upscaling as well all built in

[phansson]

So does Sony, Lexicon, Denon, Onkyo and Yamaha that I know of. Of course the only one I really want is the Lexicon. A little out of my price range at the moment.

[hays0023]

i just really love my Parasound + want to be able to take advantage of everything else...I am greedy!

[nbourbaki]

I'm staying on the sideslines until 2nd generation players show up which should be sometime next year. By then, I'm hoping to see higher end units ship with HDMI 1.3. If Parasound has a processor with room calibration and HDMI 1.3 upconverting/switching I'll buy a Parasound to match my A51.

[phansson]

That is my thoughts exactly. I have to have room correction and HDMI inputs for sure on my next processor. If Parasound has something that fits that criteria I might purchase. I have been happy with all of my amps and the C2.

I have been considering buying a cheaper Denon receiver with HDMI switching and use my Parasound amps still. That might be a good short term resolution.

[Chris D]

First, the HDMI 1.3 protocol was just finalized in the last two months, so it IS out now. The connector is still the same, but you're right in that it may change sometime in the future. (likely just adding a lock of some sort)

Because it's still new, though, I don't know of ANY receiver or pre/pro that is HDMI 1.3 compliant, receiving much less decoding the raw bitstreams of the new HD-audio formats.

Yes, I know Anthem is doing a thing now where their processors can accept a DECODED PCM signal over HDMI 1.1, if the player decodes the signal. (I think it's only some formats so far, though, and no player decodes Dolby True HD yet, if I remember right) However, I'm still not convinced that this PCM stream is the full, uncompressed, high-bandwith PCM stream that would be the equivalent of the direct HD decoding inside the processor.

In any case, I think something like that is still a makeshift band-aid solution for the new technologies. What I predict is: when processors start showing up with 1.3 compliance and capabilities, they'll be good. Parasound will likely not be in the initial or even second release group of manufacturers for 1.3-compliant processors, but will show later with those products. As to whether we'll be seeing 1.3 upgrades for current Parasound processors, brand new 1.3-capable processors, or both, I couldn't say. I hope it's both, and that would be my wild guess as well, although probably not at the same time--upgrades would probably come first. Given their track record, I don't see Parasound releasing a "makeshift" solution for HD-audio, and will release an actual solution when it's good, steady, and very ready.

Of course I want everything and I want it now. I'm trying to give them a little slack in that 1.3 did just get released, but I've clearly stated over and over that I want HDMI 1.3 audio reception and decoding capability in my processor just as soon as possible. And yes, I'm willing to pay some good $$$ for it, this won't be cheap!

Oh, as to the original question, no, because of the recent 1.3 release, 1st gen bugs, resolution limitations, the whole format war, and others, I'm waiting until AT LEAST 2nd generation if not longer to buy HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray.

[Chris D]

phansson, one more thing, you were mentioning needing two 7.1 analog inputs for the two new format players, if you go the analog decode and transmit route. Since no player yet of the new HD formats plays SACD or DVD-A, I think you really need at least 3 multichannel inputs, if not 4:

1. HD-DVD
2. Blu-Ray
3. SACD and DVD-A (last generation "universal" player)
4. Computer for Windows Media Video High-Definition

As NO receiver/processor today has that many multichannel inputs, you're stuck. At most, I've seen 2, and really, each set takes up a lot of back panel real estate, so you don't need a lot. What you really need to do is get a multichannel switcher. Zektor makes one that's usable for multichannel audio switching, I think with 4 sources. If/when I do go Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD, assuming I don't have HDMI 1.3 capability in my C1 yet, I'll be buying one of those. www.zektor.com

I just don't have the cash (or much desire outside of the "ideal, money no object" solution) to scrap the C1 and go with something completely new and different.

[misterdoggy]

The new Lexicon does do hdmi "switching" but does not do upscaling. what does this mean. If your satellite dish sends 576i coming in, it will "pass thru" the same signal 576i to the Screen. If the source is 1080i it will pass thru 1080i.

The Lexicon will however upconvert all signals to component or hdmi if I understand correctly. so s-video can come in and would be converted to hdmi going out.

However Anthem does the upscaling of all images. A satellite feed could come in 576i and be upscaled to 1080i in a number of formats to the screen. Like a built in dvdo or faroudja upscaler.

The Anthem D2 not only upscales the video image to 1080i but it also upconverts the Audio signal as well !!

http://statement.anthemav.com/HTML/Products/D2/D2.html

For the moment Anthem does it all or more than anything offered out there. If the same package was offered by Lexicon I would be a buyer tomorrow.

I have the Lex MC12B V5, but why would I change for a HD model, as it doesn't change the video signal.

I use a DVDO for ALL video signals. It is the HUB where ALL signals come in and get accepted in ANY format (s-video, component, composite, hdmi etc) and go out in ANY format (hdmi, s-video, component etc) and it arrives at the screen in a one cable of your choice format.

The Lex HD only switches between existing definition and doesn't change them so even if I had the HD, I would still use the DVDO for video !!

The good thing about upscalers like, dvdo and faroudja is they act as a hub, like a processor is the hub for audio, the upscaler is the hub for video.

When a processor is a hub for audio and Video, and Hdmi can be sent carrying the finest signal, then and only then will we have arrived.

For the moment, only Anthem has done this, but I'm holding out to see what will happen when the dust settles a little.

[bhuskins]

Halcro Logic is another company that does most of this as well.

[misterdoggy]

Halcro Logic is another company that does most of this as well.

Yes it seems it does. How much does that baby Run ? (First born child) ;x(

[bhuskins]

Not much compared to your Lex...$10K MSRP for the SSP-100 and $8K MSRP for the SSP-80.

[misterdoggy]

Not much compared to your Lex...$10K MSRP for the SSP-100 and $8K MSRP for the SSP-80.

I've been reading a bit about it as my "ears' went up when you mentioned it does it all. Yes its priced right.

But....

It isn't a "true" upscaler as it doesn't de interlace. It bypasses signals, but would not change a signal from 480i to 1080p. It could change a 480p to a 1080p however. I have satellites coming in at 576i and am upscaling to 720p so it would not be solution for me.

The Anthem does deinterlace however.

I would switch to Halcro if and when I can toss my DVDO in the bin and replace it with a all-in-one solution.

The review I read on the Halcro ssp 100 the guy still used a lumagen upscaler for the output to screen. The Halcro does act well as a hub and can do some of the work, but its just not there yet.

Also the LCD only displays in 480 so its useless for all other formats.

I am ready to spend the $$ when the processor comes out in quality that does it all.

The main problem is if you use a separate video upscaler for video feeds only, and run the audio to a separate processor you don't want to run extra cables thru the upscaler then to the processor to have the ability to lipsync, but you can do it by "eye" on the processor.

[misterdoggy]

Brent,

I found and read your article too. Nice work.

Although it is not really a true 1080p upscaler. If it was I will buy one from you that is if you could supply 230v

best
Bruce

[Whistler]

First, the HDMI 1.3 protocol was just finalized in the last two months, so it IS out now.

But you wont see any of these chips before 2007, the ones which will be made in 2006 are for Sony only "Playstation 3" .

[Chris D]

Chips? not sure what you're referring to. The hardware required inside a component to transmit or receive HDMI 1.3?

[phansson]

Well, I guess my C2 is going to go over to Audigon in the next couple of weeks. It has been killing me the last couple of days trying to decide what to do and I finally made a decision to go with a lower price HDMI switching receiver for the next year or so.

If anyone would like a Parasound C2 for a decent price. Used only one year and in MINT condition. PM me

[Chris D]

phansson, you gotta decide to do what you're going to be happy with, so all the best! I really do mean that.

Personally, I can't understand "upgrading" from a high-end component to a lower-performing unit, to gain an additional new feature. Remember, the whole point of new HDMI functionality is to INCREASE the audio and video resolution, not compromise it because it's running through a lower-end component!

[misterdoggy]

If I understand right, the new Bluray and HdDvd's are copyright protected and "have" to use hdmi in order to trransmit the signal. You can bring over PCM in its native form on hdmi.

[phansson]

Chris, if it was just one feature it might not be that big of a deal. Hdmi switching, Hdmi upconversion, DPLx capability on analog inputs (won't be needed with HDMI), Room correction, and SACD over HDMI. Those are pretty big issues with home theater at the moment. Parasound has none of them. I will be losing balanced outputs but that is the only compromise.

I am going to still use my Parsound amps ( 2 A21's and 2 A23's) so I would not really be downgrading in the power department. I am going to use the receiver as a pre amp only and I really don't see the Parsound being way, way ahead of what I purchased, maybe not at all.

Misterdoggy, I think HDMI 1.3 will send the signals to a processor to be decoded but as of now the HD/BD players do that job. Then you send audio via PCM (uncompressed) to any processor/receiver that handles HDMI 1.1 or 1.2. This should be the same as using the analog outs. Of course then you have HDMI switching.

[Chris D]

Cool, phansson, now I'm curious what you did buy!

[nbourbaki]

Ok, help me here. I thought the advantages of SACD->HDMI->Processor was

1) Can apply bass management at the processor
2) Can apply room compensation at the processor
3) Single cable instead of 6 from the SACD player to the processor

And in the case of HD DVD->HDMI->Processor

1) one cable for both video and audio
2) the new codecs (Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD) will only be carried digitally in their native form over HDMI 1.3

Why buy a receiver today when in six months HDMI 1.3 will be out? My Sony 222ES has very basic bass management so I'll wait to get HDMI 1.3 and really good room correction.

[phansson]

IF you haven't heard some of the Dolby Digital Plus via Analog you are missing out. I can't wait for TrueHD via HDMI. You can get all of the new codecs via HDMI PCM at the moment (as soon as HD-DVD enables TrueHD 5.1 via hdmi, now it is only analog) uncompressed.

I think six month time frame is a little quick on the 1.3 being in the market place. I could see it taking quite a bit longer for both HD/BD players that can send the raw audio codec and processors that can decode the codec. By then you might have HDMI standards 1.4, 1.5 etc.etc....

This PCM via HDMI is a band aid. I agree. But I am also one of the idiots that has both formats all ready. I do not have an HDMI switcher. I do not have more than one set of 5.1 analog inputs. I need this now, not in a year or so.

I will be interested to see what this receiver sounds like with my speakers, cables and amps. Hey, it might not be that big of a thing. If it is, I can dump the receiver for a little loss and look elsewhere.

[phansson]

Members of the forum, don't get me wrong here. I think that Parasound makes some really great audio equipment at a price that is very affordable. I am not trying to persuade you from enjoying your equipment. As I have stated in an earlier post, I am not touching my amps. They will stay Parasound for quite some time.

I just really think that Parasound is missing out on an upgrade chance here. If they would have had a $1500 upgrade on my existing equipment for HDMI and room correction. I would have been all over it. That would have been a very easy decision.
I know it would have been a major upgrade. But they could have done it.

PLEASE DON"T THINK I AM BASHING PARASOUND. I would just like to know what all of my fellow parasound owners think!

[nbourbaki]

I for one didn't think you were bashing Parasound. I thought I was missing something as far as what the current generation HDMI provided. My Denon AVR-4802 will tide me over until players and processors support HDMI 1.3 The Denon AVR only has one set of 5.1 inputs and I can't hook up my Oppo for DVD-A and my Sony SACD player at the same time so I feel your pain. I really don't want a switch box. What I'd like is a upconverting Denon HD DVD player that also supports SACD, DVD-A, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD sending the digital streams to a Parasound processor (with state of the art room compensation) via HDMI 1.3. Oh, one more thing. I want a processor that is upgradable not replaceable. If the current crop of Parasound processors (C1 & C2) have no upgrade path in the future, that would send me in another direction.

[Whistler]

Chips? not sure what you're referring to. The hardware required inside a component to transmit or receive HDMI 1.3?

All the stuff which is necesarry for HDMI 1.3 is for Sonly only untill 2007. In Europe we wont see anything of HDMI 1.3 anyways till the end of 2007 :cry: .

Members of the forum, don't get me wrong here. I think that Parasound makes some really great audio equipment at a price that is very affordable. I am not trying to persuade you from enjoying your equipment. As I have stated in an earlier post, I am not touching my amps. They will stay Parasound for quite some time.

I just really think that Parasound is missing out on an upgrade chance here. If they would have had a $1500 upgrade on my existing equipment for HDMI and room correction. I would have been all over it. That would have been a very easy decision.
I know it would have been a major upgrade. But they could have done it.

PLEASE DON"T THINK I AM BASHING PARASOUND. I would just like to know what all of my fellow parasound owners think!

At the moment I don't care if there will be an upgrade-option in the future or not. If there will be, great if not, life goes on . Denon offers an upgrade for their flagship, it costs 1500 Euro, but it can not handle digital signals :rofl: .

[psychdoc]

Clarification/info needed

I was wondering if someone could clarify some info. I have read a little about this but I was wondering if anyone knew specifically if either Parasound 7.1 audio system can be used with any of the new HD/Blu-ray players? I understand that currently the analog inputs into the Parasound 7100 are necessary but what then? Will the 7100 simply pass out to the 5250/2250 exactly what it received? I imagine that is alright as long as the new DVD players are outputting each of the 7.1 analog channels with each channel decoded correctly, but is that the case?

I am not holding out for some hardware/software upgrade to my 7100 from Parasound, I think that will be years away, if ever, and I am not willing to wait that long (look how long it has taken to release a standard-def DVD player…yikes). So what are my options so I can still use the same equipment (7100/5250/2250) but enjoy the best picture and sound from one of the two HD DVD players (Blu-ray/HD-DVD). Does anyone really know the answers to this from a Parasound perspective? If nothing will work now does anyone know if one of the upcoming players like the Pioneer Elite will make things work in the future? Thanks in advance, Matt.

[Chris D]

Yes, anything connected to Parasound's 7.1 analog connectors will be passed through without any correction. So for setup, you'll need to do level matching and such in the source itself, if it can. You won't be able to do DPLIIx processing or anything else either.