How I've added HDMI 1.3 high bitrate audio decoding to my Parasound C1

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  • Chris D
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Dec 2000
    • 16877

    How I've added HDMI 1.3 high bitrate audio decoding to my Parasound C1

    Quite a thread title, I guess. Perhaps I should subtitle it, "or how I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb... I mean, theater."

    As the title says, I've added HDMI 1.3 audio decoding to my home theater, centered around the Parasound C1 home theater controller. As you all likely know, the Zhd adds HDMI switching (up to HDMI 1.3) to the C1/C2/7100, but not HDMI audio reception and decoding. It's highly likely that Parasound will not be adding this capability, instead producing a new pre/processor with HDMI audio sometime in the future.

    So in the meantime, to get HDMI audio, all of us owners have the choice to either scrap our Parasound controllers and go with other new products, or create a stopgap solution. I've done the second, and imagine I'm certainly not the only one. (there are EXTREMELY few good quality HDMI audio pre/pros out now) I looked to add an outboard HDMI audio decoder to my C1. The cheapest thing I came up with was the lowest-end HDMI receiver on the market. So I got the new Denon 2808ci HDMI receiver, really only to be used as an outboard HDMI decoder, not using the amplifier or any other sections. To still have fully automated HDMI input switching integrated with my C1, and 5 inputs, I'm also using the Zhd. Sources are a HD-A35 HD-DVD player, PS3 gaming and BD player, Parasound D3 universal disc player, and two DirecTV HD-DVR's. You can see all equipment below in the rack--Denon 2808ci is right above the C1.



    Video path is HDMI audio and video out from the sources, switched by the Zhd, then HDMI out to the Denon 2808ci. From there, the HDMI video is output to my theater front projector, staying HDMI 1.3 compliant the whole way. For audio, all sources are capable of HDMI audio, and the HD-DVD and PS3 are 1.3 capable. So the audio goes source, HDMI to Zhd, HDMI out to Denon 2808ci, then decoded and sent out to multichannel analog pre-outputs to the C1 multichannel inputs, then sent as normal to my Parasound amps and speakers.

    One question would be why this is advantageous, when many HDMI sources offer the capability to do decoding in the source and send via multichannel analog outputs to the pre/pro. Well, first, this keeps the signal digital as long as possible, (same reason you used digital coax/optical on your old DVD player instead of analogs) although the last bit from my Denon 2808ci to Parasound is analog. (of course, not as good as having the HDMI decoding right in the entire pre/pro) Second, the C1/C2/7100, like many other pre/pros, intentionally does not do any processing on the multichannel input source--it's just straight pass-through to keep the signal as pure as possible. Nice, but this means that bass management and such must all be relied upon inside your HDMI source, which is limited, if not non-existent. Using the Denon as a decoder, I can not only do bass management, levels, etc in the Denon, but also apply the Denon Audyssey processing for room processing. Best of all, I can apply the DPL IIx processing that I like so much, making every source a full 7.1 sound, regardless of the origin audio format, from mono all the way up to the new perfection DTS-MA, Dolby TrueHD, or PCM uncompressed lossless audio. Lastly, the C1, like most pre/pros, only has one multichannel input, so you can only connect one multichannel analog source, unless you get one of those switchers, too. (and then, usually limited to 2-3 sources)

    I could have gone with the Denon **2308ci**, the actual cheapest HDMI 1.3 receiver, but it lacked multichannel INPUTS in addition to the outputs. I still use my Parasound D3 for SACD and DVD-A over multichannel outputs, so I needed something to receive the D3 multichannels. In this sense, my Denon is functioning not just as an outboard HDMI decoder, but also a multichannel switcher for SACD and DVD-A. (no equipment I'm aware of yet, that does at least BD, SACD, and DVD-A, all over HDMI to be decoded in a pre/pro)

    So how does it sound? Fantastic! Adding the new HD audio formats to the C1 is a noticeable improvement over the legacy Dolby and DTS. While I had my C1 in for service recently, I got the Denon and initially had everything hooked up via the Denon, output to my Parasound amps in the new theater in my new house. The new HD audio formats add a level of clarity and detail never before heard on DVD. So then, when I got my C1 back, why use it at all? Isn't the Denon good enough to do the whole pre/pro job? Well, it has nowhere near the fidelity of the C1. So all my non-HDMI sources I have, like CD player, tuner, etc, sound better (cleaner) when I put my C1 in my rack and connected them straight to the C1. When I added the C1, the HDMI audio through the Denon didn't sound any better than Denon-only, (you can't really ADD clarity by adding more equipment) but I think it's a testament to the C1 multichannel analog pass-throughs that they were so transparent that I couldn't notice the C1 when I added it as another connection in the path.

    So, bottom line--is it worth it? For me, absolutely. The new HD audio formats make enough of a noticeable improvement that it's worth the extra cost and equipment. I think the higher in fidelity your theater is, the more improvement you'll hear from the lossless audio. Everybody's going to have to answer for themselves if the cost is worth the gains, and to what extent they go to add HD audio. And if and when I get a full HDMI pre/pro, (come on, Parasound!) it's not like I'll trash the Denon. I'll move it up to be my living room receiver, one spot up in the equipment rack, so I have HDMI capability in that house zone too.

    To summarize, Advantages of using a HDMI receiver as outboard decoder for the C1:

    1. HD audio capability
    2. Can apply bass management, levels, and distance on HDMI audio
    3. Can apply DPL IIx and other processing to the HDMI audio
    4. Can also use it as a multichannel analog switcher using the multichannel inputs
    5. Using a Zhd also still allows for seamless Parasound gear integration, and 5 sources
    6. You can add HDMI audio without having to give up C1 fidelity

    Disadvantages:

    1. Not cost-effective
    2. Not cost-effective
    3. Not cost-effective

    (Parasound, we still want a Halo HDMI pre/pro!!!)
    CHRIS

    Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
    - Pleasantville
  • blownrx7
    Member
    • Dec 2004
    • 96

    #2
    Chris,
    As usual, you've outdone yourself - a very cool solution although not simple (or cheap as you pointed out).
    Can you give us a block diagram of all the inputs outputs (feel free to take your time on this ?
    I think I understand it but want to be sure.
    I 've got to imagine that the programming of this for your remote took a bit of time...
    Well Done!

    Comment

    • mattburk
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2003
      • 248

      #3
      Nice system, You really need to spend more on your tv though. I would try to lower the tv too
      www.mycstone.com
      www.coverednow.com
      www.biarenton.com

      Comment

      • Chris D
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Dec 2000
        • 16877

        #4
        You bet--will do.

        As for the remote, yeah, I'm still not done with that part. Some of it will just have to be macros, where certain commands will cause actions by both the Parasound C1 and the Denon HDMI receiver. But it does help that the Zhd is already seamless with the C1 via RS-232 cable, so I don't have to send extra commands for the Zhd to switch, also.

        Thankfully, I've set this up to be dedicated to the theater. Otherwise, since my equipment rack actually services the whole home A/V distribution (see my other recent threads here in the Club) things would be magnified exponentially as I try to setup and program every house zone for function and control.
        CHRIS

        Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
        - Pleasantville

        Comment

        • joetama
          Senior Member
          • May 2006
          • 786

          #5
          I've seriously debated, even one night with my Credit Card out, about getting that same Denon Receiver and using it to decode the HDMI Audio.

          I wish there was a much cheaper "BOX" that would do all the decoding and not have everything I don't need. AKA an amplifier etc etc.


          Do you think there would be much advange with the Denon over the Onkyo TX-SR705 or 805?
          -Joe

          Comment

          • Chris D
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Dec 2000
            • 16877

            #6
            Yeah, I compared those specific models with the Denon. In my case, I was buying a couple new HDTV's for my new house, and Best Buy had deals where you could get more money off, in a package deal, if you bought a receiver at the same time as the TV. BB carries Denon, but not Onkyo, so I went that way. They did carry a Pioneer model, but I ended up with the Denon.

            You'd be fine in any of those cases, I think, if you're just using the receiver for HDMI decoding.
            CHRIS

            Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
            - Pleasantville

            Comment

            • kgveteran
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2005
              • 865

              #7
              This is a carry over from your post in the HT forum section.

              At this time I use an Outlaw 990. I'm sure The Denon would be an even (receiver/processor) to the Outlaw.I would also get Audessey processing to boot.I can later upgrade to HD DVD or which ever just won the war at a later date.

              Oh ya, rice rack.....sure you hear that all the time :lol: With a rack like that, do people really look you in the eye when you talk :lol: Almost like your not there at all just your rack :lol: ...alright enough :rofl:

              KG
              Here is my LCR "Trio". Way to go guys !

              Comment

              • Vince Helm
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2006
                • 134

                #8
                great pics and wonderful equipment Chris!! Now that you own the D3... please tell us more about that unit!

                VH

                Comment

                • Chris D
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Dec 2000
                  • 16877

                  #9
                  Sure... I'll put that over in one of the D3 threads that we've talked about in the past.
                  CHRIS

                  Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                  - Pleasantville

                  Comment

                  • nazeerdts
                    Junior Member
                    • Jul 2008
                    • 1

                    #10
                    HDMI 1.3 Audio Solution.... of ParaSound C2

                    I Have ParaSound C2 Processor, I want to use HDMI 1.3 Audio 7.1 Channel Audio...... as the ParaSound C2 Processor Does not support the HDM1 Audio...

                    I am requesting to help me in solving the problem.. is there any solution to be hooked... in any way... by adding xxx... hope to receive from.. your side

                    Comment

                    • Chris D
                      Moderator Emeritus
                      • Dec 2000
                      • 16877

                      #11
                      Hey, nazeerdts, welcome to the Guide and Club Parasound! :banana: If you read the first post in this thread, it tells you exactly how to do this.
                      CHRIS

                      Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                      - Pleasantville

                      Comment

                      • jprafter
                        Member
                        • Jan 2005
                        • 92

                        #12
                        Chris,

                        Didn't you used to have the Denon 3910? I guess you replaced this with the D3? Other than aesthetics, was there any advantage? I see the D3 can be had for $999 at AA and was wondering if there is any reason to get one.
                        Parasound C2, A51, A21, T3, A23(x3)
                        Onkyo TX-SR805
                        Paradigm Signature S8, C5, S4, S2(x2), ADP
                        Velodyne HGS-15X, SMS-1
                        Sony PS3
                        DirecTV HR20
                        SONOS
                        Harmony 1000

                        Comment

                        • Chris D
                          Moderator Emeritus
                          • Dec 2000
                          • 16877

                          #13
                          jp, yes, before I even bought the D3 it was looking very similar to the Denon 3910 in specs, so I was expecting a "lateral" move. When the D3 came down in price, I decided to just go ahead and do it. I'm a little surprised in that IMHO, the D3 seems to be a small step UP in audio quality, specifically on high-res multichannel audio, but a smallish step DOWN in picture quality for upconverting standard DVD's. But that's okay, because I was primarily wanting something for universal audio disc playback, and I can use my other players for upconverting SD-DVD's. So, compared to the Denon 3910:

                          - Small step UP in audio
                          - Small step DOWN in video
                          - Get casing to aesthetically match Halo gear
                          - Rackmount
                          - Get HALO root video screen when not playing something. Looks pretty sweet in the theater.
                          CHRIS

                          Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                          - Pleasantville

                          Comment

                          • jprafter
                            Member
                            • Jan 2005
                            • 92

                            #14
                            Chris, thanks for the info on the D3. I wonn't be able to justify that purchase even in my own head.

                            However, I took your queue on your setup above. I've decided I'm sick of waiting for a C3 (or whatever it will be called) so I purchased a refurb Onkyo TX-SR805 and hooked it up this weekend. I have the Onkyo's preouts going into the C2 7.1 Analog ins. The sound is amazing using the PS3 for Bluray. Since all my equipment is behind cabinets and using the harmony 1000 and two RF extenders, the magic just happens and I don't have to look at the Onkyo next to my Parasound. The onkyo was around the price I had paid for the Zector MAS7.1, so for the price of a switch I get HD audio. Very happy, thanks for the post. :T
                            Parasound C2, A51, A21, T3, A23(x3)
                            Onkyo TX-SR805
                            Paradigm Signature S8, C5, S4, S2(x2), ADP
                            Velodyne HGS-15X, SMS-1
                            Sony PS3
                            DirecTV HR20
                            SONOS
                            Harmony 1000

                            Comment

                            • Chris D
                              Moderator Emeritus
                              • Dec 2000
                              • 16877

                              #15
                              Sweet, thanks, that's really great to hear that helped out somebody else. Glad you're happy with your system.

                              Come on, Parasound, we want the C3! (and everything else about to come out!!!!)
                              CHRIS

                              Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                              - Pleasantville

                              Comment

                              • brodricj
                                Member
                                • Aug 2008
                                • 42

                                #16
                                Nice setup. It would look so cool if one of those racks was solely dedicated to Halo components only!

                                I have decided to retire my C2. I've given up waiting for Parasound to do an upgrade path for it, and given up on its annoying habit of uncommanded surround sound mode changes, and given up on waiting for C3.

                                I have been very happy with it, apart from a few issues, and will be sad to see it go. It will probably be replaced by Denon AVP-A1HD (this will be cheaper than what I bought C2 for), or the new Rotel RSP-1570. I'm just waiting to see how those two measure up against each other.

                                Comment

                                • Chris D
                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                  • Dec 2000
                                  • 16877

                                  #17
                                  Thanks, brodricj. Believe me, I've wondered what that would be like, to make one complete rack completely Halo. It would be do-able, but of course very expensive, if I replaced the receiver you see in the top right corner (which powers my upstairs living room) with my C1 and some Halo amps, and put a C3 in, instead of my C1. If I upgraded my amps, like using two JC-1's instead of the A21, that rack would fill up really, really quick.
                                  CHRIS

                                  Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                  - Pleasantville

                                  Comment

                                  • brodricj
                                    Member
                                    • Aug 2008
                                    • 42

                                    #18
                                    With two JC-1's in the rack I reckon the heat would be almost like the insides of a nuclear reactor! All my gear is in a similar rack, including four 2-ch class a/b amps @ 200WPC. The amps get quite warm at idle, but not much warmer when cranked up at listening level (the main amp is force ventilated with a 120mm arctic cooler). C2 gets very warm, but what gets very hot is the video scaler which sits on top of the stack, you can fry an egg on that thing! I really like the way you've mounted some of the gear that doesn't have OEM rack ears. My very minor gripe with the C2 rack mounted system is the holes are 1/2 RU displaced from where the caged nut holes are punched in my rack's rails. Same applies to my PS Audio gear which is also displaced 1/2 RU out. This means that when my US made gear is racked they all stack up on top of each other in correct alignment, but when my rest-of-the-world made gear is stacked on top of that there is a 1/2 RU gap to fill. If anyone has some pics of a rack full of Halo gear I'd like to see that!

                                    Comment

                                    • rocasi
                                      Member
                                      • Dec 2003
                                      • 40

                                      #19
                                      Very interesting setup. I chose a sligthly different solution. I use a Monoprice HDMI switch to handle the HDMI video from my various sources and then direct to my HD projector. Audio is a whole other story. HD audio is processed in my Panasonic BD55 player and output to the C2 via analog. My only problem is I have to disconnect the 7.1 analog from my Denon (for SACD) in order to use this. I have yet to find a reasonably priced 7.1 switch.
                                      My system: http://www.prontoweb.com/klipsch_HT.htm

                                      Comment

                                      • Eric Carroll
                                        Junior Member
                                        • Feb 2008
                                        • 16

                                        #20
                                        How about the Zektor HDS4.1? Don't let it fool you its an audio OR component video switch.

                                        UK Based manufacturer of HDBaseT video distribution systems, HDMI over HDBaseT extenders, CEC control solutions, including our exclusive USB-CEC Adapter


                                        You can also find their older 7.1 analog only switch on Audiogon from time to time.

                                        Comment

                                        • Russ_L
                                          Member
                                          • Nov 2008
                                          • 32

                                          #21
                                          Quality of Receivers Analog Output

                                          Hi Chris- great system. I myself have been thinking of various ways to "solve the problem". My only concern about doing a set up like yours is the quality of the analog audio from the Denon. I know it would cost more to move up the Denon ladder, or some other manufacturers receiver, but it seems like the C1 is being short changed by not feeding it the best analog possible. Please do not take this as a criticism.

                                          Russ

                                          Comment

                                          • rocasi
                                            Member
                                            • Dec 2003
                                            • 40

                                            #22
                                            Chris: Now that you have had some time with this set up, are you still pleased with the performance. I am thinking of doing the same thing with the new Integra DHC 9.9. I keep hearing the C3 is going to be delayed and I am not sure I want to spend 4K on a new HALO unit. This problem can be solved for a heck of a lot less and still keep that sweet 2ch sound via the C2 or C1.
                                            My system: http://www.prontoweb.com/klipsch_HT.htm

                                            Comment

                                            • Chris D
                                              Moderator Emeritus
                                              • Dec 2000
                                              • 16877

                                              #23
                                              Yeah, I'm still very pleased, given what alternatives I've had. Would be nice to go to a full-up high end HDMI audio processor now. But I could either go to a processor that I don't want as much, or wait. I think I'm getting more and more glad that I did the "stop-gap" measure that I did, using the receiver as a outboard audio decoder, since it's increasingly less of a "short-term" solution. But it'll still be better to have one integrated unit.
                                              CHRIS

                                              Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                              - Pleasantville

                                              Comment

                                              • MarkStega
                                                Member
                                                • Oct 2003
                                                • 39

                                                #24
                                                I went down an alternative route while waiting for the C3 (waiting for Godot?). I have only one need for decoding the advanced audio and that is for BluRay. Given that, I chose to buy the Sony S550 player and have it do the audio decoding and output to the C2 analog inputs. All other sources are handled by coax inputs on the C2. Even though this is pretty obvious, I just wanted to remind folks that there is an inexpensive way to get advanced audio decoding if you are dealing with a single source...
                                                Mark Stega

                                                Comment

                                                • rocasi
                                                  Member
                                                  • Dec 2003
                                                  • 40

                                                  #25
                                                  I recently got the new Panasonic BD55 with analog outs to my C2 analog in. I now also get the new formats decoded by the BD55 and sent to my C2. I am looking at the new Integra DHC 9.9 in order to get a reliable HDMI switch and an all in one solution and I am very interested in the Audyssey processing. The only other issue would be the 2ch performance. I would use the Integra analog outs to my C2 analog in, then be able to use the C2 for 2ch listening.

                                                  I had pinned my hopes on the the HALO 'upgradeability' as future proofing when it debuted. That didn't pan out and now we are waiting for another $4000 unit to be released, the C3. I think I will look at other options.
                                                  My system: http://www.prontoweb.com/klipsch_HT.htm

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Chris D
                                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                                    • Dec 2000
                                                    • 16877

                                                    #26
                                                    Yes, always an option to do outboard decoding passed through multichannel analogs. You do deal with extra D/A, A/D conversions, longer lines of analog transmission.
                                                    CHRIS

                                                    Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                    - Pleasantville

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Briz vegas
                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                      • Mar 2005
                                                      • 1199

                                                      #27
                                                      Sorry but the brain wandered when I saw this photo. That is the sorryest HT display ever. :rofl:

                                                      Originally posted by Chris D

                                                      High definition sound is not that big a deal in my opinion, but then my only source is a Marantz sr7300ose and my Naim eats it for breakfast. 24 bit audio (dts 96/24) is strangled,although I suspect that the source discs I have are just plain ordinary recordings. Its bettered by 20 bit HDCD and 16bit red book playback by a clear margin.

                                                      I would just wait until someone bothers to manufacture a decent processor. But I can certainly admire the effort that has gone into this project.
                                                      Mac 8gb SSD Audirvana ->Weiss INT202 firewire interface ->Naim DAC & XPS2 DR->Conrad Johnson CT5 & LP70S-> Vivid B1s. Nordost Valhalla cables & resonance management. (Still waiting for Paul Hynes PS:M)
                                                      Siamese :evil: :twisted:

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Chris D
                                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                                        • Dec 2000
                                                        • 16877

                                                        #28
                                                        Oh, you're referring to my little TV/VCR sitting on top of my rack? That's just currently being used as my monitor for previewing stuff in the equipment room, doing setup and such, before going into the theater for actual watching.

                                                        The THX dolls on top have multiplied since that shot, and a couple other things, too.
                                                        CHRIS

                                                        Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                        - Pleasantville

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Russ_L
                                                          Member
                                                          • Nov 2008
                                                          • 32

                                                          #29
                                                          Multichannel LPCM

                                                          Chris- my son just added a PS3 to his home theater so that he can play the lossless BD codecs, Dolby TruHD and DTS Master Audio through his Onkyo SR705 receiver. The 705 can decode the new codecs but the TruHD indicator would not light up on the receiver or did he feel like he was getting the optimum sound from the few TruHD discs that he played.

                                                          After some investigation we discovered that the PS3 (currently) can not bitstream the new codecs but will decode them and send multichannel LPCM over the HDMI connection. Once we discovered this he set the PS3 and 705 accordingly and now all is fine; the 705 will decode multichannel LPCM.

                                                          Could you not do the same with your C1? Or do the same with most other prepros? This was an eye-opening discovery for us.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • MarkStega
                                                            Member
                                                            • Oct 2003
                                                            • 39

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by Russ_L
                                                            Chris- my son just added a PS3 to his home theater so that he can play the lossless BD codecs, Dolby TruHD and DTS Master Audio through his Onkyo SR705 receiver. The 705 can decode the new codecs but the TruHD indicator would not light up on the receiver or did he feel like he was getting the optimum sound from the few TruHD discs that he played.

                                                            After some investigation we discovered that the PS3 (currently) can not bitstream the new codecs but will decode them and send multichannel LPCM over the HDMI connection. Once we discovered this he set the PS3 and 705 accordingly and now all is fine; the 705 will decode multichannel LPCM.

                                                            Could you not do the same with your C1? Or do the same with most other prepros? This was an eye-opening discovery for us.
                                                            It could only apply to PrePros that have HDMI inputs as the bandwidth available over the coax/toslink limits one to two channels of uncompressed LPCM. So for the C1/C2 this 'solution' is not viable.
                                                            Mark Stega

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Russ_L
                                                              Member
                                                              • Nov 2008
                                                              • 32

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by MarkStega
                                                              It could only apply to PrePros that have HDMI inputs as the bandwidth available over the coax/toslink limits one to two channels of uncompressed LPCM. So for the C1/C2 this 'solution' is not viable.
                                                              Mark- thanks for the answer. I missed the obvious; no HDMI inputs. ops:

                                                              Russ

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Chris D
                                                                Moderator Emeritus
                                                                • Dec 2000
                                                                • 16877

                                                                #32
                                                                Ah, Mark beat me to it. He's right! That's why we're all so anxious for the C3. HDMI audio input and processing!

                                                                Stupid economy....

                                                                CHRIS

                                                                Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                                - Pleasantville

                                                                Comment

                                                                • rocasi
                                                                  Member
                                                                  • Dec 2003
                                                                  • 40

                                                                  #33
                                                                  I recently ordered the new Integra DHC 9.9 and hope I will be able to use it to replace my C2. I would like to have a better solution to HDMI switching and HD audio codec play than what i have now.....which is a work around to these items.

                                                                  I plan on running some un-scientific A/B comparrisons of the 2 ch ability of the C2 vs. the Integra. I expect the Integra to not perform as well, but it just may be good enough for my needs. The price difference between the Integra and the proposed C3 is substantial and the Integra is available today. Who knows when Parasound will get around to releasing the C3, besides, I had gotten the entire HALO line when i came out due to its promised 'upgradeability', which has not materialized.
                                                                  My system: http://www.prontoweb.com/klipsch_HT.htm

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Chris D
                                                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                                                    • Dec 2000
                                                                    • 16877

                                                                    #34
                                                                    I thought I'd give a bump to this thread, given that the C3 and pals are still delayed until next year. This thread is still a solution to get high-def audio, HDMI video, audio processing, and multichannel audio switching, keeping existing Parasound gear as the centerpieces.

                                                                    When I set this up, I wasn't sure if I'd get much return on my investment, as it was just a temp solution, and the C3 could have come out right away. But it's been a year and a half since I did it, and will probably be 2 years before we see the C3. I'd be tearing my hair out, if I had to go 2 years without full HD audio formats, properly processed, so it's been worth the cost for the temp delay.

                                                                    Plus, like I said, I'll be moving the Denon HDMI receiver over to my 2nd zone living room audio, if/when I replace it with the C3. So it won't be wasted cost.
                                                                    CHRIS

                                                                    Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                                    - Pleasantville

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • brodricj
                                                                      Member
                                                                      • Aug 2008
                                                                      • 42

                                                                      #35
                                                                      That's well and good if you've got a device that can do on-board decoding and output analog to the Halo. If you don't it means waiting for C3 to come out, or spend more money on a temporary solution that can do on-board decoding. I decided to wait until I see the C3 offering. There's no hurry to sell my C2 now that its resale value has totally tanked to a small fraction of what I paid for it new. If the C3 doesn't measure up favorably in comparison to its competition at its price point on release, then I'll look elsewhere. If it has a feature set that is completely up-to-date then I will stay with Parasound, because C2 has earned my loyalty to the brand. I won't fall for false promises of "future updates" this time!

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Chris D
                                                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                                                        • Dec 2000
                                                                        • 16877

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Well, with the last two days' news, I should probably give this thread a bump, I guess. Glad I had a high bitrate audio solution in place while waiting for a HDMI 1.3 receiver!

                                                                        Reading this again, I think I can see how a diagram might be helpful after all. Let me know if you guys want one.
                                                                        CHRIS

                                                                        Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                                        - Pleasantville

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • rocasi
                                                                          Member
                                                                          • Dec 2003
                                                                          • 40

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Chris, for those of us who have not been keeping up, what news?
                                                                          My system: http://www.prontoweb.com/klipsch_HT.htm

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Chris D
                                                                            Moderator Emeritus
                                                                            • Dec 2000
                                                                            • 16877

                                                                            #38
                                                                            See the hot post here in the Club about the Parasound processors being canceled.

                                                                            Interestingly enough, what I did here in this thread STILL is very much a good solution for those who want to go to HDMI 1.3. I'm not really missing out on anything by still keeping my setup with the outboard HDMI 1.3 controller, even today, a full TWO YEARS after I went with this setup and posted this!

                                                                            So for Parasound fans, you still can do what I did, and add an outboard HDMI 1.3 decoder to your C1/C2/7100 and get full functionality. Matter of fact, today you'll only get cheaper and better solutions, as there are more HDMI receivers out there that could fit the bill.

                                                                            ***OR***

                                                                            At this point, you could scrap your C1/C2/7100, and go with an entirely new processor/receiver from another company.

                                                                            Me, I'm plenty happy with my C1 and the solution I've set up, so I'm good staying where I'm at. I'm not going to ditch it all and spend the money for an entirely new product from another manufacturer to add to my rack. It's not a perfect solution for me, as I still want an all-in-one processor. (and from Parasound, of course) But I'm good for now.
                                                                            CHRIS

                                                                            Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                                            - Pleasantville

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • cameronl
                                                                              Member
                                                                              • Jul 2004
                                                                              • 69

                                                                              #39
                                                                              hi, could you please clarify that I have the following correct

                                                                              (dvd\blu-ray)
                                                                              HTPC > via HDMI Onkyo pr sc5507 using EQ > preouts into 7.1 anagloue input of C2 > A52

                                                                              (stereo)
                                                                              HTPC > via analgoue (soundcard) > analogue inputs of C2 > A52

                                                                              if that is the case, I could get HD Audio with EQ from a modern processor and still keep the C2 for all the control and stereo duties.

                                                                              thanks

                                                                              CaM

                                                                              EDIT: If you do this then how do you set the volume of the movie, via the processor or the halo?

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • Chris D
                                                                                Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                • Dec 2000
                                                                                • 16877

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Originally posted by cameronl
                                                                                hi, could you please clarify that I have the following correct

                                                                                (dvd\blu-ray)
                                                                                HTPC > via HDMI Onkyo pr sc5507 using EQ > preouts into 7.1 anagloue input of C2 > A52
                                                                                Yes, you've got it right. I'm not familiar with that particular Onkyo model, but if it's HDMI 1.3, or better yet even HDMI 1.4, then you'd be adding on ALL new HDMI features through the Onkyo as an outboard decoder, while keeping almost all sonic quality from the C2.

                                                                                The only note is, to enjoy the full 7.1 sound of the "new" high-res audio tracks, (i.e. Dolby True HD, DTS-MA, etc) of course you'd have to use 7 channels of amplification and speakers as well, not just the A52. (could add an A23)

                                                                                (stereo)
                                                                                HTPC > via analgoue (soundcard) > analogue inputs of C2 > A52

                                                                                if that is the case, I could get HD Audio with EQ from a modern processor and still keep the C2 for all the control and stereo duties.
                                                                                Correct. That's exactly what I'm doing, still using my C1 as my master controller, and only using the HDMI receiver as an outboard decoder for high-res audio. You can still have your C1 hooked up directly to your "old" devices of HTPC, CD, SACD, DVD-A, DVD, tuner, iPod, etc, and not have to sacrifice any loss of audio clarity, either stereo or multichannel.

                                                                                EDIT: If you do this then how do you set the volume of the movie, via the processor or the halo?
                                                                                Again, I'm still treating my C1 as my MASTER control unit, so I use a fixed volume on the outboard HDMI decoder, and control every source and its volume from my C1, whether it be stereo, multichannel, analog, or HDMI. Keeps it easy so there's no confusion of "I want to turn up the volume... let's see... am i listening to legacy audio through the C2, or HDMI audio passed through the decoder?"

                                                                                Remember, the multichannel analog inputs on the C1/C2 are straight pass-throughs, so you don't get any processing on them. So if you want to do any room correction, processing such as DPL IIx/IIz or Audyssey, or otherwise, configure it all to happen in the HDMI decoder before it gets to the C1/C2.

                                                                                For setting the outboard HDMI decoder volume to the proper fixed level, if you've properly calibrated your C1/C2, it should play a THX reference volume tone of 75 Hz when at a volume level of 0 db. So just turn up the C1/C2 volume to 0, and then play the test tone/material through your HDMI decoder, and adjust the decoder volume to achieve the same 75 Hz level. Then turn your C1/C2 volume back down for regular use!
                                                                                CHRIS

                                                                                Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                                                - Pleasantville

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • cameronl
                                                                                  Member
                                                                                  • Jul 2004
                                                                                  • 69

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  How do you lock the volume of the HD processor?

                                                                                  hi, how do you manage to lock the volume of the HD processor?

                                                                                  On my stereo I can set a home theater processor mode that locks the volume but I do not think this would be possible with an HD processor.

                                                                                  I guess I could do something like set the volume to a certain level on the HD processor (via rs232 or tcp) and then calibrate the C2 as you suggest.

                                                                                  I do have an A23 but prefer to have a 5.1 and 2 channel stereo

                                                                                  thanks for your help.

                                                                                  CaM

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Chris D
                                                                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                    • Dec 2000
                                                                                    • 16877

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Well, it's not "locked" as such. I just set my HDMI receiver at a certain level, and then haven't moved it, so it doesn't ever change. The only thing I occasionally do with the receiver physically is just turn it on or off using the physical power button. Everything else is controlled via remote. Programming macros in my remotes helps me accomplish everything I need to from multiple units with just one button push.
                                                                                    CHRIS

                                                                                    Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                                                    - Pleasantville

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • Chris D
                                                                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                      • Dec 2000
                                                                                      • 16877

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Bump, for current discussion about using high bitrate lossless audio decoding with the C1/C2/7100. Four years after creating this setup in my theater, and 9 years after buying my C1, I still use this setup, and it's still giving me cutting edge performance with full system control. :T
                                                                                      CHRIS

                                                                                      Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                                                      - Pleasantville

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Chris D
                                                                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                        • Dec 2000
                                                                                        • 16877

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Yet another bump here for another thread's discussion. It's now been FIVE years since I created this equipment setup and this thread, and TEN years since I bought my C1. So glad that I've done this. I've done little to no adjustments or upgrades to this equipment setup, and it's still giving me fully current, modern technologies, without having to sacrifice any of the crystal clear, high-end audio performance of the Halo gear.
                                                                                        CHRIS

                                                                                        Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                                                        - Pleasantville

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • rocasi
                                                                                          Member
                                                                                          • Dec 2003
                                                                                          • 40

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Glad to hear your system is still as you wanted five years later. That is quite an achievement in the world of audio/video. Once I figured out Parasound was not going to add HDMI, I sold all my gear and went a whole different route.

                                                                                          Enjoy your gear.
                                                                                          My system: http://www.prontoweb.com/klipsch_HT.htm

                                                                                          Comment

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