Review: Rotel RSP1098 versus Parasound Halo C1 (side by side) updated

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  • misterdoggy
    Super Senior Member
    • May 2005
    • 1418

    Review: Rotel RSP1098 versus Parasound Halo C1 (side by side) updated

    Well I have both the RSP1098 and C1 side by side and I have had the C1 a full week and have played CD, DVD, Satellite TV's and am ready to give a general comparison of strengths and weaknesses.

    COMPARING the CD source in Stereo the sound on the Halo was was much richer than the Rotel. The Bass tones more evident, mid range was full and deep and a general feeling of warmth that we used to have with tube Amps back way when. The Rotel was missing in the mids and Bass tones were light and cold and sterile when compared to the Parasound.

    The C1 in Dvd mode I found the separation of sound distinct, maybe more detailed, yet less info dispersed if its not meant to be. I used a Radio shack spl and got everything even but felt the fronts and center had more weight then the surrounds in DD and PrologicII than the Rotel processer which shared the sound around more..

    Ease of use of the Rotel seems easier. Firstly the larger LCD had information actually "readable" where as the Parasound you have to be at least 6 feet "directly" in front of it. Then you are really not sure of your 'mode' chosen so you have to get up and take a look closer while everyone is watching a movie and play with a few buttons. Maybe this will change as I get confident the system will chose DD3.2/1 first as the best choice. Rotel had preprogrammable "defaults" which means when a DVD is the source, the first choice will always be, not just the last one you used. It will always chose first choice DD OR DTS if its offered. It will always chose PrologicII for satellite if that was the default, even if you change it temporarily. Then you can shut down or change the source mode and it will always go back to Prologic II as thats the default not just the last choice of mode. The LCD as a readable ally is not your best friend with the C1 system.

    I had read a review that the "reviewer" thought the sound on the C1 was superior than the C2 and that was the reason I went for the C1. I figured it can't just be $2000 more for a LCD !! I think it was Audioholics, he wasn't sure it might not have been his setup configurations that were entered diferently. I've read in previous threads from the club that Parasound people say there's no difference, but no one is sure sure.

    I always thought the systems like Denon and Harmon Kardon where they had either a little diagram with which speakers were on or a green light for which sound system was playing on the front is easier than calling up a "status" on an lcd you can't read.

    Ease of setup of the wiring": Rotel was easier and more evident as there were less choices and it wasn't clear firstly on the C1 which RCA inputs for the 5.1/7.1 with the 2 sets next to each other. After a quick look at the manual the right set was chosen. Then There was the choice of the analog video 3 and analog audio 3 inputs for analog sound. Which one corresponds to the #3 S-video input. I naturally chose the 'audio' 3, because I thought perhaps the 'video' 3 was a composite input for a picture on the lcd or something. After a call to the Parasound who are very helpful and its a one liner what to do (after spending 1 hour playing with the remote) the sound popped right up, as video 3, is actually the audio, which corresponds to s-video 3. The rest of the wiring was a no brainer for anyone with a little experience in home cinema.

    Both the setup menus in the Rotel + Parasound guides you easily and the Parasound has less choices. The spl mic provided does not do the job and the radio shack spl found slight differences in 5 speakers, but enormous difference in the subwoofer. The inboard spl mic had 10db difference with the radio shack spl. This is "alot" and, IF I had gone with the inboard mic, I would have a "boomy" system and would have thought this was how it was supposed to be. So for all of you who rely on the inboard mic, its worth the investment to have a radio shack spl for $39 to run a cross check.

    On the plus side for the Parasound there are controls if you like for treble and bass that do not exist for Rotel. Ebass for deeper bass at low volumes exists in both. A plus for Rotel is programmable speaker sizes for different different modes. In pure stereo you can select only the front 2 speakers. The default for surround mode will always be where the Rotel goes when switching between sources while the C1 goes and stays set on the last choice for the source. So with the C1 if you were watching Satellite TV and someone in your family played with the remote and accidentally touched a button to change from PrologicII to another surround choice it will stay that way until you manually change it. Rotel automatically keeps the default when switching back and forth and turning on and off. When you go back it automatically choses Prologic if that was the default for that source. This can be hazardous on the C1 if your wife or someone else hits the wrong button on the remote and you are not aware. This gives you less confidence and are checking the "status" often with an LCD you can't read except from close.

    Both remotes can be preprogrammed and set up easily to go directly to the source and control the source with one button ease.

    I can announce (for me) that Parasound has truer harmonics, and the separation of sound in 5.1 is clean and distinct. So far, ease of use is a bit worrisome, and it could be, that I am new to it, and haven't fully gotten confident, what it will produce. I will wait 1 month before making a complete Audioreview.com review so there can be no mistake caused by unfamiliarity.
    So Far

    STRONG POINTS
    Great Stereo sound
    Clean separation of DVD material
    XLR inputs + ouputs, BNC component ins and outs
    Great Remote
    Warm harmonics

    WEAKNESSES
    Lcd lettering is not readable from a distance
    Default settings overrided by "last choice" for source surround
    Only one speaker "set" for each source (large vs small + which ones)
    Also I found in Stereo mode there was NO signal to the subwoofer unless I switched to PrologicII music or cinema
    No unbalanced bypass possible

    CONCLUSION: The sound (to my taste of course) was better on the Parasound, so that is the choice. If the sound was equal, the Rotel offers more choices, more thought out, and an LCD that is clear and goes directly to the point. The XLR inputs and outputs, bnc inputs and outputs are great on the C1 to many this is important. "IF" the sound had been equal coming from both, I personally would chose the Rotel. However, the sound is warmer, deeper bass, more midtones and sharper highs with the Parasound. BOTTOM line is the best system is the system that SOUNDS the best. N'est Pas ?

    System used for comparison:
    Parasound Halo C1 and Rotel RSP 1098
    Krell KAV 2250 2x250w
    Krell Showcase Amp 5
    Pioneer DV868avi
    Rotel RCD1072
    B&W 804s, 805s, Htm3s, Asw 825 1000watt
    Nordost Solar Wind, interconnects + Speaker cable



    [I]
    Last edited by misterdoggy; 28 May 2005, 09:49 Saturday.
  • soundhound
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2004
    • 815

    #2
    Cool, misterdoggy, if you are willing to go thru the pain of hook-up, I for one would love to hear you're take on a side by side comparison. I whole heartedly agree w/ you're bottom line.

    Comment

    • Chris D
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Dec 2000
      • 16877

      #3
      Good stuff, man. That's true for me, too--I'm all about function over form. Bottom line is how it performs. But I tell you what, setup and options can be a real pain in the rear if they're not designed right.

      Start looking at the Halo Control computer program and what that can do for you. For one thing, you can specify for each input what you want the DEFAULT audio mode to be--stereo, DD, DTS, etc.
      CHRIS

      Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
      - Pleasantville

      Comment

      • misterdoggy
        Super Senior Member
        • May 2005
        • 1418

        #4
        "..............For one thing, you can specify for each input what you want the DEFAULT audio mode to be--stereo, DD, DTS, etc................."


        Hi Chris,
        I only have "Mac". Believe it or not, I've ordered a small laptop Dell "just" for fooling around with my hifi stuff (Krells, Parasound, Remotes etc) which can take updates. I'm a little scared to mess with it as everything works. You know hat they say "if it ain't broke don't fix it" or I'll start doing something with an unfamiliar computer operating system and we fall into murphy's law (if something can happen it probably will) but I am interested in tweaking the system and pushing the envelope if I can.
        The Default settings you spoke about, can I access them from the remote or the front panel. It would make my life much happier knowing when I switch on that satellite selected means PrologicII Cinema, or Cd selected means Stereo (with sub if possible) or if DVD is selected it will take the "best" choice DD3/2.1 if offered. Could you instruct me maybe what steps to take ?
        I had both machines sitting there, and regardless of cost, looks, and even ease of use maybe, I would have sent the under performer "packing" as ALL I really care about was results in the end and the Halo "shined".

        Comment

        • Brian
          Member
          • May 2004
          • 80

          #5
          misterdoggy,

          Check out the "direct" choice. It will default the audio to whatever the default choice is for an input. If it's 5.1, it will do 5.1. For sat or tv, if it's 2.0, it will play 2.0. If I remember correctly, you can set that on a per input basis, perhaps "direct" for DVD's but then PLIIx for tv or sat.

          Also, regarding the sub being off with the mic, the manual basically states that the mic measures the acoustic position of the sub, not the relative position. Your room will play a part in how the bass tones reach the mic so while in reality it may be at 10', the processor thinks it is more accurately timed when the distance is at 18' (just an example). Play with it a bit. I did and actually found the bass was less boomy when using the C1's setting rather than the true distance. Every room is different so you just have to experiment.

          Comment

          • misterdoggy
            Super Senior Member
            • May 2005
            • 1418

            #6
            Check out the "direct" choice.

            Brian,
            Does direct mean not processed ? direct or by bypass. What does direct mean exactly.
            As for the sub, I went with personal taste that it was too boomey with the Halo mic and just right with the radioshack spl. It felt a little overbearing with the settings from the Halo, but I will look at it again.

            Comment

            • Chris D
              Moderator Emeritus
              • Dec 2000
              • 16877

              #7
              Yes, direct means that no DSP sound modes are applied to it. So if the input is Dolby Digital 5.1, that's what the C1/C2 will put out. If it's stereo, it will put out stereo into your mains. (vs. say "Party" mode or "Dolby Pro Logic", adding reverb, delay, and splitting into extra channels) Direct is a pure, non-processed mode.

              As for the Halo Control software, sorry, but it adds a few functions like this that are either not possible or just much more difficult with the unit front panel or remote. Another good example is naming and assigning inputs. With the front panel, you have to scroll to each item you want to change, and then scroll through the alphabet for each letter to rename like you're entering a video game high score. With Halo Control, you click, type, and you're done.

              I personally consider Halo Control to be ESSENTIAL for full functionality of C1/C2 options.
              CHRIS

              Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
              - Pleasantville

              Comment

              • misterdoggy
                Super Senior Member
                • May 2005
                • 1418

                #8
                Chris

                Isn't it better to not use direct and let the Halo processing of prologic applied.

                1. I hope I understand. I watched a movie tonite under direct and I saw it selected DD3/2.1. Is the DD3/2.1 purely what was sent to the Halo by the DVD player, or was it also processed by the Halo.
                2. With Analog sound coming from a satellite and I want it to be rpocessed into ProlgicII, then direct can be prologicII as well ?
                I'm a little confused

                Comment

                • Chris D
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Dec 2000
                  • 16877

                  #9
                  Misterdoggy, I think the best explanations and depiction of sound options are actually right in the manual. You'll be able to see for each and every type of input which sound formats are available for processing.

                  Basic answers to your questions-
                  1. Yes, direct does not do any sound processing beyond the channel distance and level settings that you have in the C1/C2. So you watching DD3/2.1 (the display for DD 5.1) in Direct, you were hearing actual DD 5.1. No additional soundfields, reverberations, etc.

                  2. Yes, if you take analog stereo (which is what you'll normally get from your analog red and black RCA plugs wire) and want it processed by Dolby Pro Logic II, that is a processed sound format. It will create the extra channels of DPLII for output, which is more than what is being sent to the C1/C2. If you listen to analog stereo in Direct, you will hear it just as it is input--in stereo. Same thing if you select "Stereo" as the sound format--the stereo analog input will be output as stereo. So "Direct", "Stereo", and "DPLII" are all selectable sound format choices for an analog stereo input. (as are others like "Mono", "Party", etc... see the manual for the full list"

                  3. Is it "better" to use Direct or DPLII processing? It depends on
                  what you're listening to and for what purpose. If you're listening to a quality stereo CD recording, you may want to keep it in Direct mode to hear it exactly as it was intended. On the other hand, if for example you're inputting a stereo analog signal from a VCR for a VHS movie (especially if it has been encoded with Dolby Pro Logic surround) you may find it "better" to have the C1 decode and process the sound with DPLII to create the extra channels of sound information, which in that case is closer to what is intended. This is where it comes down to you, your preferences for listening, and your choice.

                  Direct is universal--for whatever sound format you INPUT when Direct is selected, the same sound format will be OUTPUT.
                  CHRIS

                  Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                  - Pleasantville

                  Comment

                  • misterdoggy
                    Super Senior Member
                    • May 2005
                    • 1418

                    #10
                    I must be thick, So not to keep kicking a dead horse.

                    1. If you are playing a DVD from a "decent" dvd player like the pioneer dv868avi and the sound is coming from the digital coax, what is the best choice or does the C1 make the best choice automatically ? does the C1 process the 5.1 or the Dvd process the 5.1. If so, maybe the C1 will do a better job.

                    2. Also when listening to satellit tv in analog input, it is definitely better with DPLII, for instance as it adds more and thats why its there NON ?

                    I guess the real question I am trying to differentiate is where does the processing take place and where will it be best.
                    Last edited by misterdoggy; 30 May 2005, 04:09 Monday.

                    Comment

                    • netarc
                      Member
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 61

                      #11
                      Originally posted by misterdoggy
                      1. If you are playing a DVD from a "decent" dvd player like the pioneer dv868avi and the sound is coming from the digital coax, what is the best choice or does the C1 make the best choice automatically ? does the C1 process the 5.1 or the Dvd process the 5.1. If so, maybe the C1 will do a better job.

                      2. Also when listening to satellit tv in analog input, it is definitely better with DPLII, for instance as it adds more and thats why its there NON ?

                      I guess the real question I am trying to differentiate is where does the processing take place and where will it be best.
                      For DVDs, the audio is going out in "native" (unprocessed/undecoded) form from the DVD player's coax port into your C1; the C1 then does the decoding/processing and outputs 6 discrete channels (for 5.1). Yes, I've found that the C1/C2 will actually default to the appropriate mode (DD, DTS, etc) for the incoming digital audio stream.

                      Comment

                      • misterdoggy
                        Super Senior Member
                        • May 2005
                        • 1418

                        #12
                        Netarc,
                        Thanks for that answer it really clears up the question with DVD.
                        I have 1 last question

                        1. Since there are 2 ways to influence the subwoofer one in levels/distance and the other is LFE after setting up levels why go to LFE and do more.

                        Comment

                        • Andrew M Ward
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2005
                          • 717

                          #13
                          Truer Harmonics?

                          Please explain "Truer Harmonics" in your personal review, you use this phrase.

                          Comment

                          • misterdoggy
                            Super Senior Member
                            • May 2005
                            • 1418

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Andrew M Ward
                            Please explain "Truer Harmonics" in your personal review, you use this phrase.

                            I know where you're leading and How can I know what the truth is. Its all subjective and taste. This was a bad choice of words. I was trying to say the instruments I heard and the voices I heard sounded more natural, full, with a full range of tones IN comparison to the Rotel which I was used to before. It was as if someone took some wax out of my ear and the "range" of tones increased if you prefer. I state this as only my opinion, my taste and my idea. I have been in recording studios (Beatles, Bob Marley and others) and have heard top quality sound recreation and think I have an idea what its about. I'm no expert, but like someone who knows what they like to eat, I think I know when I like something I'm hearing.

                            Comment

                            • Andrew M Ward
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2005
                              • 717

                              #15
                              Originally posted by misterdoggy
                              I have been in recording studios (Beatles, Bob Marley and others) and have heard top quality sound recreation and think I have an idea what its about.

                              Okey-Dokey
                              I was just wondering, because a harmonic is a component of the fundamental frequency and it's basically mathematical. For one unit to have truer harmonics that would imply that the other had in some way false harmonics, which I’m not sure is even possible.

                              Secondly: when you say you’ve been in recording studio’s (Beatles Bob Marley etc.) Do you mean Abby Road and Island Recording Studios?

                              Comment

                              • misterdoggy
                                Super Senior Member
                                • May 2005
                                • 1418

                                #16
                                I am new to chat groups with audiofiles and am not familiar with all the "correct" terms. I am no expert, but I have listened well and think I have a good ear for sounds. I am only giving my opinion and not stating facts like this is better than that. If harmonics is not the word to use as I thought harmonics was the "relationship between frequencies" and if it doesn't sound right then its wrong. But we are in semantics as I need to learn the correct words to express myself in your group or keep my mouth shut. We all know what sounds better to all our ears, but expressing it in exact audiophile terms is like learning a new language.
                                Yeah I was in the studio with/where the beatles did their recordings and in Kingston with Bob 'many' times as well. I'm sorry I mentioned it as its a measure of nothing. Both times as a friend who sat in. I have nothing to do with the music business other than I like music and many of my friends were either musicians or in the music business. I am leaving for 2 days to Cognac in France to pick up some posters and may not reply until then unless I find a computer somewhere and we can continue our chat.

                                Comment

                                • Andrew M Ward
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Apr 2005
                                  • 717

                                  #17
                                  No worries
                                  I read your review and was just wondering.
                                  I read a lot of reviews and a lot of audio comparisons and so forth. One thing I’ve noticed about various reviews and comparisons is the pointing out of “dramatic” sonic differences between pieces and interconnects or jumpers etc.

                                  Dramatic! Differences, that’s a big word.

                                  When I listen to gear I usually find the differences very subtle. I own some of the finest audio equipment ever made and it’s usually extremely slight in sonic advantages over mid-fi gear.

                                  Again, I fond very subtle differences between a $7,000 preamp and a $1,000 receiver, based on my experiences. Only in speaker comparisons do I hear dramatic differences, like a Maggie compared to a B&W or a Wilson Maxx and a Def Tech piece.

                                  However in the world of hardware I find it extremely subtle, no matter how much the equipment differs in price. A $3,000 RSP1098 as compared to a Mark Levinson No.40 at $30,000 would be noticeable but still subtleties would be all that separate the sound characteristics.

                                  For me it comes down to what subtleties I’m willing to live without... Usually find a way to explain to myself (justify) the subtleties advantage and go with the better sounding piece.

                                  I dropped 0ver $8,000 on interconnects and speaker wire for a very slight sonic improvement (no wonder why Audioquest owns my soul now)

                                  Just my 2 cents

                                  Comment

                                  • Chris D
                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                    • Dec 2000
                                    • 16877

                                    #18
                                    MrDoggy, if you're looking for simple recommendations to keep it easy, this is what I would suggest:

                                    FOR A 5.1 SPEAKER SETUP:
                                    1. For any surround sound format (DD, DTS) passed over a digital connection, use DIRECT. Use this for your DVD player.
                                    2. For a DVD-A or SACD player, use the multichannel analog outputs from the player and your 7.1 analog inputs on the Halo C1/C2. No sound processing available.
                                    3. For all other 2-channel analog inputs, use the following:

                                    3a. For a music source (CD, cassette, tuner, etc) use DIRECT if you want pure, unchanged sound. Otherwise, use what sounds best to you--Dolby Pro Logic II or a DSP like Party, Concert, etc for a bigger multichannel processed soundfield.
                                    3b. For a movie source, (VCR, some televion) use DPLII.
                                    3c. For all other sources, use DIRECT.


                                    FOR A 6.1 OR 7.1 SPEAKER SETUP:
                                    1. For music, use DPLIIx MUSIC
                                    2. For all video types, use DPLIIx MOVIE

                                    I have a 7.1 setup, and this works fantastically for me. I love the way DPLIIx sounds. The strange thing is, I've always been a purist, wanting to listen to music and watch movies the way they were intended, and hated the way DSP's altered the sound. Maybe it's the quality processing that DPLIIx does, but me personally, I find that DPLIIx only enhances the sound, and doesn't change it in a way that is distracting or annoying.
                                    CHRIS

                                    Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                    - Pleasantville

                                    Comment

                                    • nicholtl
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Aug 2003
                                      • 539

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Andrew M Ward
                                      No worries
                                      I read your review and was just wondering.
                                      I read a lot of reviews and a lot of audio comparisons and so forth. One thing I’ve noticed about various reviews and comparisons is the pointing out of “dramatic” sonic differences between pieces and interconnects or jumpers etc.

                                      Dramatic! Differences, that’s a big word.

                                      When I listen to gear I usually find the differences very subtle. I own some of the finest audio equipment ever made and it’s usually extremely slight in sonic advantages over mid-fi gear.

                                      Again, I fond very subtle differences between a $7,000 preamp and a $1,000 receiver, based on my experiences. Only in speaker comparisons do I hear dramatic differences, like a Maggie compared to a B&W or a Wilson Maxx and a Def Tech piece.

                                      However in the world of hardware I find it extremely subtle, no matter how much the equipment differs in price. A $3,000 RSP1098 as compared to a Mark Levinson No.40 at $30,000 would be noticeable but still subtleties would be all that separate the sound characteristics.

                                      For me it comes down to what subtleties I’m willing to live without... Usually find a way to explain to myself (justify) the subtleties advantage and go with the better sounding piece.

                                      I dropped 0ver $8,000 on interconnects and speaker wire for a very slight sonic improvement (no wonder why Audioquest owns my soul now)

                                      Just my 2 cents
                                      I completely agree with everything you said. It's nice to have someone honest enough to admit they spent a fortune on their audio gear, as I have too, and yet only hear the slightest of slight nuance and minute differences compared to, say, a higher-end receiver. I think the audio publications stress such dramatic differences so often that most consumers have been led to believe they should expect night and day differences, when such differences would only exist between components at dire opposite ends of the spectrum.

                                      By the way, you're surely not joking about owning some of the finest audio equipment around. Just glancing at your avatar, I see what appears to be 2 Classe amps, a host of Classe's new Delta Series source components, Krell's SACD Standard, and is that a Krell amp sitting in the middle?

                                      PS - funny you should mention AudioQuest owning your soul. Kimber owns mine. :T

                                      Comment

                                      • Andrew M Ward
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Apr 2005
                                        • 717

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by nicholtl
                                        I completely agree with everything you said.

                                        Just glancing at your avatar, I see what appears to be 2 Classe amps, a host of Classe's new Delta Series source components, Krell's SACD Standard, and is that a Krell amp sitting in the middle?

                                        PS - funny you should mention AudioQuest owning your soul. Kimber owns mine. :T
                                        Hey,
                                        Thanks – it’s nice to know I’m not flying solo on the “subtleties of audio” opinion.

                                        What you see in the photo: The piece in the middle on the floor is a Mark Levinson No.333 (2 x 300 into 8ohms) flanked by two CA-M400 Classe’ 400 watt mono block’s
                                        In the rack on the bottom are the Classe’ CDP100 and an SSP300, not shown is my SSP600, it’s in a different system on the other side of the room with a CA-3200 I’m not eve sure what’s in the middle of the rack, I think it’s my DAT machine on the left and CD player I cant even remember (it’s gold so it might be my Yamaha DVD-S2300 with gold finish) above that is another Classe’ piece of unknown model number, it could be the 100 watt integrated to it’s left is the DAC for the Denon 2 piece with the transport sitting above it...top shelf right side is the Naim CDS3 two piece player...
                                        I have more not shown, I have a Proceed AVP2+6 preamp and a Denon DCD-3000 CD player I have all kinds of Linn hardware, plus a Rotel RSP1098 and a Rotel RDV-1060 and a few Rotel power amplifiers. I have an Escient fireball music server and a pair of B&W 703’s and a pair of B&W 804S (just got them, love ‘em) I have Linn Tukan and Ninka pairs of speakers and a host of other products (I’m not even kidding)

                                        Comment

                                        • nicholtl
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Aug 2003
                                          • 539

                                          #21
                                          Gosh, what do you do for a living, Andrew? You're where I wanna be when I grow up!

                                          How many different systems do you have, and are they for different purposes (ie. home theater, 2-channel, kid's theater, etc.)?

                                          I hope we're not hijacking the thread here... I'm just so blown away.

                                          Comment

                                          • Andrew M Ward
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Apr 2005
                                            • 717

                                            #22
                                            uh...
                                            well my position title is Group Product Manager at Equity Audio, Equity is basically B&W Rotel Classe' and iCommand...

                                            Keep that quiet, otherwise no one will talk to me. I'm here basically as an Audio lover and Music lover...

                                            I used to be the sales Manager for Mark Levinson products...

                                            -Andrew M Ward

                                            Comment

                                            • netarc
                                              Member
                                              • Jul 2003
                                              • 61

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Chris Dotur
                                              3a. For a music source (CD, cassette, tuner, etc) use DIRECT if you want pure, unchanged sound. Otherwise, use what sounds best to you--Dolby Pro Logic II or a DSP like Party, Concert, etc for a bigger multichannel processed soundfield.
                                              3b. For a movie source, (VCR, some televion) use DPLII.
                                              3c. For all other sources, use DIRECT.
                                              I would just augment Chris' suggestions to add:

                                              3a. For a music source (CD) use DIRECT if you want pure, unchanged sound. Otherwise, use what sounds best to you--Dolby Pro Logic II or a DSP like Party, Concert, etc for a bigger multichannel processed soundfield. If the incoming signal is analog (L/R) - that is, you're using the CD's DAC or an outboard DAC, as opposed to the Halo's DAC - then use Stereo96 mode to keep the signal as unprocessed as possible (not quite analog bypass, but reportedly close)

                                              3b. For a movie source, (VCR, some televion) use DPLII in Music mode, not Cinema.

                                              Comment

                                              • nicholtl
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Aug 2003
                                                • 539

                                                #24
                                                Well let's remember one crucial element here:

                                                Direct ONLY works on digital sources. In other words, on components connected via toslink/coax. Direct is not an option with anything connected via RCA or XLR.

                                                Comment

                                                • misterdoggy
                                                  Super Senior Member
                                                  • May 2005
                                                  • 1418

                                                  #25
                                                  Hi everyone This is exciting that my thread has weaved an interesting cloth so to speak. I have just arrived in Cognac in France after driving up from Bordeaux past the vineyards of the finest Wines that exist.

                                                  Thanks for so much interesting input and I need to get back home to try them all out. I knew I was in trouble when asked about "what does true harmonics mean" Nice material, but my main purpose is both stereo and home cinema so I was afraid of buying amps that pull too much power to watch TV satellite or be left on all day. Heat an usure ? I will be running 2 Krells the 3250 and 2250 which is 5 x 250 watts and I feel these Amps are more fragile and more sensitive to swings in electricity like we have in France than something like a Rotel rb1090.

                                                  I bought a monster hts1000 surge protector but it couldn't handle the second amp and blew the fuse of the house. In Europe its not easy to find surge protection with filtering and especially something that can handle 2 x 13 amps.

                                                  There was what I considered a big difference between the rotel and C1. I compared the 2 back and forth several times and it was resounding, not close and even had a friend with me to concur. So at = price there can be large differences. It may be for some like the difference between a Gaugin and a Van Gogh. Both great, but just a question of taste. For me it was yeah Okay and Wow great.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Peter Nielsen
                                                    Super Senior Member
                                                    • Sep 2004
                                                    • 1188

                                                    #26
                                                    Andrew,

                                                    Have you done a side-by-side comparison between the Classé M400 and Parasound JC-1 ?

                                                    Peter

                                                    Comment

                                                    • misterdoggy
                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                      • May 2005
                                                      • 1418

                                                      #27
                                                      Peter

                                                      What about comparing the JC 1 side by side with the Krell 2250 or 3250. Do you think this would be a step up or horizontal.

                                                      Bruce

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Peter Nielsen
                                                        Super Senior Member
                                                        • Sep 2004
                                                        • 1188

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by misterdoggy
                                                        What about comparing the JC 1 side by side with the Krell 2250 or 3250. Do you think this would be a step up or horizontal.
                                                        That would not be a fair comparison. The JC1s are monoblocks with much beefier power supplies, more output devices and much higher idle bias. It's almost like comparing apples to oranges IMHO. (So, yes, I'm saying that the JC-1 will be a definite step up from the 2250. However, it's also a step up pricewise from $4000 to $7000).

                                                        If would be more fair to compare the 2250 to the A21. (Actually, this would be very interesting.)

                                                        Peter

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Andrew M Ward
                                                          Senior Member
                                                          • Apr 2005
                                                          • 717

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by Peter Nielsen
                                                          Andrew,

                                                          Have you done a side-by-side comparison between the Classé M400 and Parasound JC-1 ?

                                                          Peter
                                                          Peter,
                                                          You know what; I haven’t done a side by side with those two.

                                                          I do find amplifiers fun for comparisons, but not so much for sound quality, because I find most higher end amps at normal volumes to be very good.

                                                          What I like doing is extreme performance testing, like low resistance high volume stuff, dead shorting and overheat performance stuff. I find the Rotel stuff to be an extremely good value in that category, they are hard to kill, difficult to make clip, behave well in under voltage situations and all at bargain basement prices when compared to some higher end amps that may sound good but blow fuses and clip with tough loads or shut down in moderate under voltage scenarios.

                                                          The Classe’ stuff is fun because you (anybody) can connect their laptop to the amplifiers and see what’s going on inside.

                                                          BTW: The Classe’ amps are virtually bullet proof, I’ve done virtually every inhumane wicked thing that can be done to them and they just keep going.

                                                          The Mark Levinson stuff is robust and impossible to make clip but can be sent into shut down modes fairly easily (they sound awesome)

                                                          Anyway I can ramble on an on...
                                                          Just more 2 cents

                                                          Comment

                                                          • misterdoggy
                                                            Super Senior Member
                                                            • May 2005
                                                            • 1418

                                                            #30
                                                            Andrew

                                                            how to you like krell ??

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Andrew M Ward
                                                              Senior Member
                                                              • Apr 2005
                                                              • 717

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by misterdoggy
                                                              Andrew

                                                              how to you like krell ??
                                                              Gosh,
                                                              You knew I couldn’t resist that baited hook.

                                                              Krell is (of course) one of the worlds finest power amplifier companies and my experience with the older Krell pieces was of a very high level of performance and stability.

                                                              You know between Mac and Krell and Levinson and Rowland & Conrad Johnson & Audio Research it’s all a matter of slight personal preferences.

                                                              I talk to guys who swear that the Mac stuff sounds great but it’s really not that engaging of a sound to me, I love the way it looks with the old school meters and circa 1960’s stylings but I don’t own any, and I own all kinds of gear.

                                                              I guess I never truly connected with Mac. Me and my coworkers call it the Harley Davidson of Audio, as I’m sure the reference is obvious.

                                                              Audio Research and a good vinyl set-up are an unbeatable match (period!)

                                                              Jeff Rowland claims that his digital amplifiers are the best sounding in the world at any price against any other manufacturer. Yet I’ve seen guys identify them in an A-B-X within 2 minutes and only one round of playbacks, and they were identifying it as the one they liked the least.

                                                              Yet people swear by his products as the best sounding...

                                                              Who knows what makes us choose the products we choose, I think we buy with our eyes a lot. Tests have shown that we do. I think we buy what our trusted dealers show us as their best products, and I happen to agree with that.

                                                              Once you get passed a certain quality level, a huge percentage of audio gear can be (if set up properly) made to sound awesome.

                                                              Sometimes that first transcendental audio experience will emotionally connect us with a product forever. From that day on we are converted, we are faithfully bound to that gear.

                                                              My first knock down experience just happened to be with Mark Levinson gear and a Linn turntable, Since I have always loved both Linn and Levinson.

                                                              later I fell in love with Proceed

                                                              Today I’m feeling extremely romantic about Classe’

                                                              Just my 2 cents
                                                              Andrew M Ward

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Peter Nielsen
                                                                Super Senior Member
                                                                • Sep 2004
                                                                • 1188

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by Andrew M Ward
                                                                Today I’m feeling extremely romantic about Classe’
                                                                Yeah, I wish I could afford a set of four Classé Omega Monos to drive my Maggies. Maybe one day, but until then JC1s will have to do.

                                                                In any case, you got to wonder if the Classé amps will deliver $38,000* more worth of sound. Still, the Classé Omegas might well be worth the money. They are so beautiful that their owners probably bought them simply for the looks :T (*The MSRP difference between a set of four Omegas and four JC-1s).

                                                                Peter

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Chris D
                                                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                                                  • Dec 2000
                                                                  • 16877

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Holy schnikies...
                                                                  CHRIS

                                                                  Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                                  - Pleasantville

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • misterdoggy
                                                                    Super Senior Member
                                                                    • May 2005
                                                                    • 1418

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by Peter Nielsen
                                                                    (So, yes, I'm saying that the JC-1 will be a definite step up from the 2250. However, it's also a step up pricewise from $4000 to $7000).

                                                                    If would be more fair to compare the 2250 to the A21. (Actually, this would be very interesting.)

                                                                    Peter
                                                                    Lme ask a stupid question if I may. Peter compares prices here, but you can buy a brand new pair of JC-1s for 4500 right on audiogon, so...... why not make a comparison between the KAVs sound and the JC1, just for sound sake. They 'are' similar in price as you can't buy krells discounted. Is it possible one might have a prefereable sound taste or its hands down mono blocs out perform. Also can you run mono blocs all day long on a home cinema

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Peter Nielsen
                                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                                      • Sep 2004
                                                                      • 1188

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by misterdoggy
                                                                      Lme ask a stupid question if I may. Peter compares prices here, but you can buy a brand new pair of JC-1s for 4500 right on audiogon, so...... why not make a comparison between the KAVs sound and the JC1, just for sound sake. They 'are' similar in price as you can't buy krells discounted. Is it possible one might have a prefereable sound taste or its hands down mono blocs out perform.
                                                                      Let me start by pointing out that I'm not debating a mono/stereo amp issue. I'm talking about the ability to deliver power. For this you need a massive power supply. Mono blocks usually have this, but so do the X-series Krell stereo amps.

                                                                      For me a Krell 2250 vs Parasound JC1 comparison would come to a quick end with an objective fact: The power of the Krell 2250 would not be enough to drive my Maggies satisfactorily. Like I said before, we're comparing apples to oranges! We need to compare the JC-1 to the "big" Krells (e.g. the X-series stereo amps or monoblocks).

                                                                      As for how the JC1s sound, there are many reviews out there. Here's one:

                                                                      The Parasound Halo JC 1 Monoblock Amplifiers Review By Wayne Donnelly, Superior Audio Magazine is the leading authority in high-end audiophile music and audio equipment reviews.


                                                                      "As I have suggested already, the JC 1s are great amplifiers. To be able to buy these robust, delicate, emotionally involving, brilliantly conceived and executed music recreators for $6,000 seems to me little short of a miracle. If I choose to stay with my beloved ($20,000) VTLs, that says more about me -- and my already owning them -- than about the JC 1s. Were I building an elite system from scratch, the JC 1s would be tough to pass up.

                                                                      I would love to hear the JC 1s against some of the big solid-state muscle amps going for three to six times their price -- Krells, Levinsons, Rowlands, and the current hot-ticket favorite Halros. Who would win? I dunno, But I have little doubt about who would win on bang-for-the-buck. So, do these $6K monoblocks really belong in Superior Audio? Believe me, the honor is ours."

                                                                      Also can you run mono blocs all day long on a home cinema
                                                                      Yes, but this entirely depends on what mono block you're using. Some run hot, some run really cool. The JC-1s have a toggle switch that lets you select high bias or low bias. In low bias mode they only run a little bit warmer than the A51.

                                                                      FYI, the resale value of Parasound suffers a lot because the warranty is not transferable, so yes, you can sometimes pick up a pair at a very low price...

                                                                      Peter

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Andrew M Ward
                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                        • Apr 2005
                                                                        • 717

                                                                        #36
                                                                        uhhh...

                                                                        Halcro (not Halro)

                                                                        Gosh, that is certainly a glowing enthusiastic review.

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Peter Nielsen
                                                                          Super Senior Member
                                                                          • Sep 2004
                                                                          • 1188

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by Andrew M Ward
                                                                          Gosh, that is certainly a glowing enthusiastic review.
                                                                          All other JC-1 reviews I've read are very much like that. Here are some more reviews:



                                                                          Misterdoggy, this review compares the JC-1 to a Krell FPB-450mcX ($18,500) and several other amps in the same league:



                                                                          Peter

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • misterdoggy
                                                                            Super Senior Member
                                                                            • May 2005
                                                                            • 1418

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Gee, I'm really happy to have your ear on this thread. I'm learning much.

                                                                            So If I understand it right, The JC1 mono blocs provide the necessary power to drive speakers that eat a lot of power.

                                                                            So if one has speakers like my 804s, then the power the Krells provide will be ample. But more power does not necessarily = better sound quality, but more power is necessary to actually drive more powerful speakers. So with more powerful amp and more demanding speakers one will hear more detail and a better quality of sound ?

                                                                            So even with 2 Krells $4000 and $5000 and The Halo C1 $6000 and a full set of 800s B+W's $14000+ throw in another $11000 for other things ie DVD, VCR, cables and all I've got is nothing more than a Mickey Mouse system with $40000 invested. How much does one have to pay to have a great system in your opinion. ?

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Andrew M Ward
                                                                              Senior Member
                                                                              • Apr 2005
                                                                              • 717

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Originally posted by misterdoggy
                                                                              So even with 2 Krells $4000 and $5000 and The Halo C1 $6000 and a full set of 800s B+W's $14000+ throw in another $11000 for other things ie DVD, VCR, cables and all I've got is nothing more than a Mickey Mouse system with $40000 invested. How much does one have to pay to have a great system in your opinion. ?
                                                                              You are Cracking me up! :rofl:

                                                                              I think you're probably doing just fine with your system.
                                                                              I believe there are many ways to achieve great sound

                                                                              :B

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • Peter Nielsen
                                                                                Super Senior Member
                                                                                • Sep 2004
                                                                                • 1188

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Originally posted by misterdoggy
                                                                                How much does one have to pay to have a great system in your opinion. ?
                                                                                I don't know how this is relevant. The key is: "The right tool for the right job". An efficient speaker does not necessarily need a big amp. An inefficient speaker like the Magnepan (85dB/W) needs a big amp.

                                                                                I have a love for Magnepan speakers and they're very power hungry. I also happen to love Krell amps, but I think they are overpriced. This is why I chose to go with JC1s. They are great value for the money!

                                                                                Two JC1s does the work fine with a pair of MG3.6. (Four is preferable for the MG20.1 to achieve bi-amping although a pair does work adequately IMHO).

                                                                                So, spending $4000 on a pair of JC1s is enough. However, if you want to go the Krell route you will have to spend A LOT more for a similar amp (like $18k?).

                                                                                Also, I think I see the need to point out the importance of speaker efficiency one more time. Here's the amazing fact:

                                                                                A pair of low efficiency 85dB/W/1M speakers will need 500 watts to achieve a 105 dB sound pressure level (SPL) at 10' distance.
                                                                                A pair of 96dB/W/1M speakers will need 40 watts to achieve the same SPL at 10' distance
                                                                                A pair of high efficiency 104dB/W/1M speakers will only need 7 watts to achieve the same SPL at 10' distance

                                                                                SPL Calculator


                                                                                So, when talking economics, you should probably find the most efficient speakers that you like because that will let you save money on the amp side since less power is needed...

                                                                                FWIW, I noticed that somebody at Audiogon asked about a KAV-2250 vs JC-1 comparison too: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr...8143&read&3&4&

                                                                                Peter

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • misterdoggy
                                                                                  Super Senior Member
                                                                                  • May 2005
                                                                                  • 1418

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  I had read that thread. I think I will lay back and enjoy some sounds and forget about how big my Amp is. This must all be neurotic or phallic. Its too bad big Amps weren't around with Freud and Hesse. I would have them join in on our thread.

                                                                                  The important thing is not to lose sight of the objective. I just want to be happy and at which "point" in any endeavor, can I walk away and say this is OK.

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Peter Nielsen
                                                                                    Super Senior Member
                                                                                    • Sep 2004
                                                                                    • 1188

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by misterdoggy
                                                                                    I had read that thread. I think I will lay back and enjoy some sounds and forget about how big my Amp is.
                                                                                    Absolutely. It's obviously big enough for your speakers and needs and that's all that matters. If it wasn't, you would certainly know :T

                                                                                    Originally posted by misterdoggy
                                                                                    This must all be neurotic or phallic.
                                                                                    Not at all. Some speakers need a lot of power. You're obviously lucky to have some of the less power hungry speakers - which really is a good thing in my opinion.

                                                                                    Before I got my Magnepan/Parasound system I too was running highly efficient speakers (Technics SB-M1) with a 2x170W amp (Technics SE-A100). I was using this combo from 1987 to 2004 and very seldomly used more than 1W ouput power. I never saw a need for a bigger amp.

                                                                                    Last fall I upgraded the system and got my first pair of Maggies (MG3.6). At first I tried to run them with an A51. That did not work out as well as I had hoped/expected. At louder volumes the lights in the room were flickering(!) and sometimes the A51 would clip (i.e. it was not able to deliver enough power despite its huge 2.4kVA trafo). When I replaced the A51 with a pair of JC1 all was well. (Now my MG3.6s are surrounds and I'm running MG20.1s for fronts)

                                                                                    Peter

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • Chris D
                                                                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                      • Dec 2000
                                                                                      • 16877

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Hey, Peter, I thought you had said in another thread about Maggies that the A51 could sufficiently drive Maggies, and that the JC-1 just did it better. Are you of the opinion, though, that the JC1 really is necessary?
                                                                                      CHRIS

                                                                                      Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                                                      - Pleasantville

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • nicholtl
                                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                                        • Aug 2003
                                                                                        • 539

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        I know! All this talk of JC1's are making me really want them. With money I don't have!!

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Peter Nielsen
                                                                                          Super Senior Member
                                                                                          • Sep 2004
                                                                                          • 1188

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Originally posted by Chris Dotur
                                                                                          Hey, Peter, I thought you had said in another thread about Maggies that the A51 could sufficiently drive Maggies, and that the JC-1 just did it better. Are you of the opinion, though, that the JC1 really is necessary?
                                                                                          It depends on what Maggies you're driving and what sound level you want to achieve (consequently room size and acoustics make a difference to what you need).

                                                                                          The A51 works great if you, for example, have a setup with 4 MGMC1s and a MGCC3. I can't imagine needing a bigger amp for these models.

                                                                                          When driving the bigger Maggies, like the MG3.6s you can easily push the A51 to the limit if you turn up the volume. An A21 would probably handle the power delivery quite a bit better thanks to the bigger (per channel) capacitance in the power supply.

                                                                                          The JC1s are definitely necessary for driving the MG20.1s, and they do it well. When it comes to the MG3.6s, I would reccomend JC1s. If you can't swing that, then go with an A21. (Another good alternative to the JC1s would be to bi-amp the MG3.6s with a pair of A21s and an active crossover).

                                                                                          In all fairness, I was driving my MG3.6s as fronts with my A51 for a few months and it sounded good as long as I kept the volume at a reasonable level. (I got a bit careless once and turned it up a notch too loud. The result was that I pushed the A51 into clipping and it blew a mid range fuse in one of my MG3.6s 8O )

                                                                                          Peter

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