no new 800 series d3 experiences?

[gerardhn]

Iam surprised that I don't see any impressions on the new d3 series...

this means ... we don't listen to them ??

[windshear]

More a case of the average person on here that bought the previous ranges cant afford the new ones. I know I cant. They have jumped up to silly money.

[TomScrut]

I have yet to get round to listening to the higher models after having listened to the 804s not long ago

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

[gerardhn]

My surprize for so little enthusiasm for such big introduction even got bigger. With previous introductions there was much more (very much) to read.

Did this forum lost interest from "heavy" users?

[Patrick Butler]

There is far more activity on other forums regarding the new 800 Series.

Regards,

Patrick Butler
B&W Group North America

My surprize for so little enthusiasm for such big introduction even got bigger. With previous introductions there was much more (very much) to read.

Did this forum lost interest from "heavy" users?

[SPACEMANRICK]

My suspicion is that by raising their prices by 60% (for the 802 model) B&W is hoping as a business to make more money on each unit and sell far fewer units. Buying my 802 Diamond speakers at $16,000 Canadian was a tough decision that I am happy that I made but I wouldn't even consider spending $25,000 on the current generation of speakers. I am pretty sure that B&W has now priced their current 800 series speakers out of the budget of 50% or more of the buyers that were previously interested in their 800 series speakers. Perhaps some of those potential buyers will move to a lower series below the 800 series????

[Freddie40]

My suspicion is that by raising their prices by 60% (for the 802 model) B&W is hoping as a business to make more money on each unit and sell far fewer units. Buying my 802 Diamond speakers at $16,000 Canadian was a tough decision that I am happy that I made but I wouldn't even consider spending $25,000 on the current generation of speakers. I am pretty sure that B&W has now priced their current 800 series speakers out of the budget of 50% or more of the buyers that were previously interested in their 800 series speakers. Perhaps some of those potential buyers will move to a lower series below the 800 series????

My 802D2s are the last 800 series I will ever buy. The new ones are too pricey even if I were to win the Powerball

[TomScrut]

It's far from 60 percent in the UK (it's 43%), which I presume is the baseline given that's where they are made. All other currencies will also reflect changes in rates.

Not to mention that if the 803 is better than the 802, then you can still upgrade by getting them for little more than the 802s cost you.

I know the prices have gone up a fair bit but the thing I don't understand is why people were surprised and why people feel the need to whine about it months afterwards when it will make no difference.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

[SPACEMANRICK]

Who's whining I am actually quite happy about the price increase I had no intention to change my 802 Diamond speakers and the price increase for the current generation just meams that my speakers re-sale value should hold at about $11,000 to $12,000 for the next few years.

I haven't heard the current generation 803 speakers but to me aestehetically the 803 speakers don't have the sensual lines that the 802 speakers have and being that these are in my living room that is very important (as I am sure it is to many other buyers). So I guess those in the UK that actually are in the market for new speakers are lucky because the prices increase is only 43% instead of 60%:W

[TomScrut]

Yeah it's still beyond what I can afford to replace my 802D2s, but if they are that much better it might be worth it. I aren't sure I like the look of the new headed models anyway! I bought mine ex demo about 18 months ago knowing a new model would be on its way but I wouldn't be able to afford it new and it wouldn't be for a while till ex demo comes into play. But I would probably go to the 803s next time anyway if I feel it is worth spending money on upgrading

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

[bigburner]

Not to mention that if the 803 is better than the 802, then you can still upgrade by getting them for little more than the 802s cost you.

Hi TomScrut,

I'm intrigued by what you mean by this? Are some people claiming that the 803s are better?

Nigel.

[Audio_ElF]

I'm intrigued by what you mean by this? Are some people claiming that the 803s are better?

The new 803 is (claimed to be) better than the old 802. And the new 804 is better than the old 803.

And it's not just a random claim but (iirc) B&W's thinking too - hence the pricing.

[Patrick Butler]

This has also been the experience of customers replacing the older 802 Diamond (802D2) with the new 803 Diamond (803D3.)

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America

The new 803 is (claimed to be) better than the old 802. And the new 804 is better than the old 803.

And it's not just a random claim but (iirc) B&W's thinking too - hence the pricing.

[TomScrut]

Hi TomScrut,

I'm intrigued by what you mean by this? Are some people claiming that the 803s are better?

Nigel.

B&W claim that you can drop a model in the new range and it still be an improvement.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

[RedWolf]

I am waiting for the new line to be released in white before spending time with my dealer listening to the new range. This also buys me time as I complete construction of my listening room. Has anyone paired their speakers with VTL amplifiers? I have had my eye on the VTL product line for quite some time. I am impressed with how they drive Wilson's line of speakers.

[peter clarke]

Vtl

I am waiting for the new line to be released in white before spending time with my dealer listening to the new range. This also buys me time as I complete construction of my listening room. Has anyone paired their speakers with VTL amplifiers? I have had my eye on the VTL product line for quite some time. I am impressed with how they drive Wilson's line of speakers.

RedWolf, I have B&W 800D, that is D1 now that D3 has been developed. VTL S-400 is used in bi-amp configuration running mid range & tweeters, the woofers run buy Parasound JC-1's. The VTL S-400 easily powers up these speakers full range but the bi-amping is a natural progression for me & I am happy, would love a test run on the D3's but expected price in Australia projected to be $48,000. Ouch!!!!!

[leo2498]

the other forum that I frequent it's the same thing, many critics and only two owners. one 804D3 owner and one 803D3 thats it!
B&W could increase its revenue but not the numbers of happy owners that will show his beauties in forums. I think that actual owners of D3 are not regular people and "B&W market" today in the 800 series is targeted to a more snobbery and rich people.

not for me, I will enjoy my 800D2 system for more years and if I will need more in a future the answers is easy: look in an another place

[TomScrut]

The new price of 804s (at least here in the UK) is £6750 compared to £5750 before. Therefore I don't think price is the issue when it comes to 804s. Yes the 803 is a lot more expensive but it is more like the old 802 in terms of where it stands in the range. And then the 802 has had to become more expensive again to leave a gap.

I have seen on facebook groups quote a few people with the new models. But bear in mind most of them don't seem to have come from the D2 series, with it being N or D speakers that have been replaced.

Also, how many people on here bought D2s within a few months of them coming out? My local dealer didn't get 803s or 802s till December anyway so given that if dealers are having to wait a couple of months for demo speakers then people may have been struggling to get some speakers by now if they ordered after listening a month ago.

The N800 was £11000 over here, and the 800D2 was £18000, I cannot remember the price of the 800D but D to D2 wasn't a massive change. These price increases that keep getting brought up like a broken record are not something that hasn't happened before. And these are for speakers that share a lot of features rather than being a complete redesign.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

[windshear]

To put things in perspective how unaffordable things have become here in South Africa. The 800D ended its life priced at R189 000. The 800D2 was priced at R200 000 on introduction, the price increased to R320 000 at the end of its life. The new 802D3 is priced at R380 000. I would hate to think what the new 800D3 will cost here, probably close to R500 000. Especially when compared to what I paid for my 800D2's, this is utter madness. I don't know where this will end, I earn a good salary but sadly I wont be buying anything like this every again. I cant afford it as much as I like this hobby. Who can afford increases like this in a local currency. Ps im a hard core B&W fan, but I don't know of anyone that has bought any of the new series locally.

[Pio]

I've been a loyal fan of B&W for years, I'm enjoying my 802D2's right now. A lot of comments I've read on line would have you believe that the "old" models are inferior to the new ones. I did hear a pair of non-B&W speakers that have really peaked my interest and will be getting a pair soon.

I've been wanting a great pair of towers for my HT set up, so after thorough listening, the one's I like best in my music room will stay in the music room and the others will go to HT duties.

[leo2498]

I've been a loyal fan of B&W for years, I'm enjoying my 802D2's right now. A lot of comments I've read on line would have you believe that the "old" models are inferior to the new ones. I try to avoid the confirmation bias that affects many, I have yet to hear something from B&W that makes me want to upgrade form my current set up. I did hear a pair of non-B&W speakers that have really peaked my interest and will be getting a pair soon.

I've been wanting a great pair of towers for my HT set up, so after thorough listening, the one's I like best in my music room will stay in the music room and the others will go to HT duties.

what speaker is in your mind?

[Pio]

what speaker is in your mind?

Hey leo2498

I don't mean to start a speaker controversy, sent you a couple of PMs. Like I said, I LOVE my B&Ws.

[TomScrut]

To put things in perspective how unaffordable things have become here in South Africa. The 800D ended its life priced at R189 000. The 800D2 was priced at R200 000 on introduction, the price increased to R320 000 at the end of its life. The new 802D3 is priced at R380 000. I would hate to think what the new 800D3 will cost here, probably close to R500 000. Especially when compared to what I paid for my 800D2's, this is utter madness. I don't know where this will end, I earn a good salary but sadly I wont be buying anything like this every again. I cant afford it as much as I like this hobby. Who can afford increases like this in a local currency. Ps im a hard core B&W fan, but I don't know of anyone that has bought any of the new series locally.

It's not B&Ws fault that the Rand has plummeted in value over the last few years compared to the Pound.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

[leo2498]

It's not B&Ws fault that the Rand has plummeted in value over the last few years compared to the Pound.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

you are right about the decrease of local currency but I think that B&W has fault when for example one pre owner wants upgrade his system from the 804D2 to something better now will need increase his budget in 226% (804D2=7500 vs 803D3=17000) if he want continue within B&W products, if you look in that way there is not doubt that B&W left go some possible buyers like me. I'm not biting that the 804D3 will have better performance in the bass area than 803D2.

But we know how is this is capitalist world and I have a better question for you Tom, how much you improved your system when changed of DAC between the CP800 vs your Antelope Zodiac Platinum? did you saw any fault in the CP800?

[Patrick Butler]

Hi leo2498,

One need not purchase 803D3 to improve upon 804D2. The 804D3 is a substantial increase in performance for $1500 more per pair than 804D2.

Best Regards,

Patrick Butler
B&W Group North America

you are right about the decrease of local currency but I think that B&W has fault when for example one pre owner wants upgrade his system from the 804D2 to something better now will need increase his budget in 226% (804D2=7500 vs 803D3=17000) if he want continue within B&W products, if you look in that way there is not doubt that B&W left go some possible buyers like me. I'm not biting that the 804D3 will have better performance in the bass area than 803D2.

But we know how is this is capitalist world and I have a better question for you Tom, how much you improved your system when changed of DAC between the CP800 vs your Antelope Zodiac Platinum? did you saw any fault in the CP800?

[Pio]

Hi leo2498,

One need not purchase 803D3 to improve upon 804D2. The 804D3 is a substantial increase in performance for $1500 more per pair than 804D2.

Best Regards,

Patrick Butler
B&W Group North America

Patrick

what would you say is the biggest flaw the new 800 series improves upon the previous version?

thx

[TomScrut]

you are right about the decrease of local currency but I think that B&W has fault when for example one pre owner wants upgrade his system from the 804D2 to something better now will need increase his budget in 226% (804D2=7500 vs 803D3=17000) if he want continue within B&W products, if you look in that way there is not doubt that B&W left go some possible buyers like me. I'm not biting that the 804D3 will have better performance in the bass area than 803D2.

But we know how is this is capitalist world and I have a better question for you Tom, how much you improved your system when changed of DAC between the CP800 vs your Antelope Zodiac Platinum? did you saw any fault in the CP800?

The Antelope sounds a lot better as a DAC, but now I run dual subs I miss the crossover features. The Classe was a great pre amp with a good DAC and excellent features. The Antelope is a great DAC with good pre amp and hardly any features. So basically it sounds better but lacks features. If I was serious about vinyl I suspect I would still have the CP800.

As Patrick says, the 804 D3 is a significant improvement on the D2. Sounds like a speaker twice it's size. I haven't spent a lot of time with it but I think I noticed less mid-range colouration.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

[leo2498]

Hi leo2498,

One need not purchase 803D3 to improve upon 804D2. The 804D3 is a substantial increase in performance for $1500 more per pair than 804D2.

Best Regards,

Patrick Butler
B&W Group North America

Thanks patrick,
I will need listening by myself first and get my impression but I'm looking for a little more bass output but not slam bass(that is why I not used SW for stereo listening) and not midrange accuracy because I think that 804D2 do its job well in this area.

[leo2498]

The Antelope sounds a lot better as a DAC, but now I run dual subs I miss the crossover features. The Classe was a great pre amp with a good DAC and excellent features. The Antelope is a great DAC with good pre amp and hardly any features. So basically it sounds better but lacks features. If I was serious about vinyl I suspect I would still have the CP800.

As Patrick says, the 804 D3 is a significant improvement on the D2. Sounds like a speaker twice it's size. I haven't spent a lot of time with it but I think I noticed less mid-range colouration.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

Thanks Tom,
I bought the CP800 for two reason one of them was its DAC and the other was the preamp option with my oppo player but I'm not using more the oppo for CD player, I ripped all my CDs and this last function forgotten.

[Patrick Butler]

Hi Pio,

I would say driver integration. Not from the standpoint of crossover design, but rather the new series sounds the same from the lowest frequencies to the highest frequencies. Sounds like the mid and bass drivers have caught up to the tweeter. Hope that answers your question.

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America

Patrick

what would you say is the biggest flaw the new 800 series improves upon the previous version?

thx

[ShadowZA]

My family and I will be leaving South Africa for good and settling in the UK at the end of the year. I've been giving serious thought as to whether I should sell my B&W speakers or take them with me. At this time, I feel keen to take then with me and then once settled... give some thought to whether I should initiate a positive relationship with a dealer there and think about a new pair of 803D3's while either keeping my present setup or enquiring about trading in some or all of my current speakers (3 x 802D first diamond series and 2 x 803D first diamond series).

I've considered other speakers such as the Vivid Audio Giya 2's or 3's... but need to confess that the B&W Diamond tweeter just does it for me.

I have not listened to the B&W D3 range yet. Would prefer to do so once in the UK. I need to spend a lot more time indoors. Hopefully the UK weather will assist in this regard.

Being somewhat of a nerd, I do support regular improvement upgrades. Whether I am prepared to pay significant higher prices, I cannot say. I need to go and listen and then decide for myself. A significant caveat in this process, unfortunately, is that my ears are not what they used to be.

Off Topic: Some points of financial interest from a South African perspective:

We are fortunate in that we have already received an acceptance on an "offer to purchase" a home in the UK and so we already know the layout of our proposed new home. What is interesting to note is that properties in South Africa in general, when compared with 'overseas properties, are not only cheap... but huge in size. We are living in what can be described in South Africa as being a "bread and butter" home. It is a 4 bedroom home with a main lounge plus a decent sized sound-proofed "hifi-home theatre" room, 3 bathrooms and double garage. Our UK home is similar (4 bedrooms and a study) but with a single garage and one lounge only. This new UK home is costing us SIX times the MARKET VALUE of our South African home. It needs to be noted that having even a single garage in the UK is not the norm. This is how things are.

As a hedge against the falling Rand (ZAR), South African resident individuals are allowed to invest R10 000 000 per calender year (approx USD $609 000 or GBP £426 800 at this time) offshore - that is anywhere outside South Africa. All that is required is a Tax Clearance Certificate (in respect of foreign investment allowance for individuals). If there are any other South Africans here... it is recommended that you look into doing this to protect your capital from further currency erosion.

[TimbaLand]

My family and I will be leaving South Africa for good and settling in the UK at the end of the year. I've been giving serious thought as to whether I should sell my B&W speakers or take them with me. At this time, I feel keen to take then with me and then once settled... give some thought to whether I should initiate a positive relationship with a dealer there and think about a new pair of 803D3's while either keeping my present setup or enquiring about trading in some or all of my current speakers (3 x 802D first diamond series and 2 x 803D first diamond series).

I've considered other speakers such as the Vivid Audio Giya 2's or 3's... but need to confess that the B&W Diamond tweeter just does it for me.

I have not listened to the B&W D3 range yet. Would prefer to do so once in the UK. I need to spend a lot more time indoors. Hopefully the UK weather will assist in this regard.

Being somewhat of a nerd, I do support regular improvement upgrades. Whether I am prepared to pay significant higher prices, I cannot say. I need to go and listen and then decide for myself. A significant caveat in this process, unfortunately, is that my ears are not what they used to be.

Off Topic: Some points of financial interest from a South African perspective:

We are fortunate in that we have already received an acceptance on an "offer to purchase" a home in the UK and so we already know the layout of our proposed new home. What is interesting to note is that properties in South Africa in general, when compared with 'overseas properties, are not only cheap... but huge in size. We are living in what can be described in South Africa as being a "bread and butter" home. It is a 4 bedroom home with a main lounge plus a decent sized sound-proofed "hifi-home theatre" room, 3 bathrooms and double garage. Our UK home is similar (4 bedrooms and a study) but with a single garage and one lounge only. This new UK home is costing us SIX times the MARKET VALUE of our South African home. It needs to be noted that having even a single garage in the UK is not the norm. This is how things are.

As a hedge against the falling Rand (ZAR), South African resident individuals are allowed to invest R10 000 000 per calender year (approx USD $609 000 or GBP £426 800 at this time) offshore - that is anywhere outside South Africa. All that is required is a Tax Clearance Certificate (in respect of foreign investment allowance for individuals). If there are any other South Africans here... it is recommended that you look into doing this to protect your capital from further currency erosion.

You can leave your 800Ds with me Shadow. I will definitely look after them. Regarding houses in South Africa we are blessed. You can't get the same size house in a similar area anywhere in the world for the same price.

I will consider what you are saying regarding offshore investment

[Pio]

Hi Pio,

I would say driver integration. Not from the standpoint of crossover design, but rather the new series sounds the same from the lowest frequencies to the highest frequencies. Sounds like the mid and bass drivers have caught up to the tweeter. Hope that answers your question.

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America

Thanks Patrick

It does. Going to go for another listen at a different dealer tonight. Want to try to pay closer attention to the improvements.

Thanks again!

[Pio]

Went and listened again to the 802D3, it's an exceptional speaker. To my ears the improvement is in bass impact and extension vs the D2. The bass reminded me of when I was running a pair of subwoofers with my 802D2's. They are much better looking in person than in pictures.

[windshear]

It's not B&Ws fault that the Rand has plummeted in value over the last few years compared to the Pound.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

I never said it was, I was merely reflecting how with a real price increase of 150% for me in my currency, I cannot afford to "upgrade". Going from a RRP of 200k to 500k from one generation to the next is sick and probably the end of the brand penetration at that point of price range locally.

[TomScrut]

I never said it was, I was merely reflecting how with a real price increase of 150% for me in my currency, I cannot afford to "upgrade". Going from a RRP of 200k to 500k from one generation to the next is sick and probably the end of the brand penetration at that point of price range locally.

So have other manufacturers stood by their prices over the last 5 years there?

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

[dan87951]

I bought my last set of 800 series too (802D2's). B&W has priced me out as well and this is coming from a guy who owns several Porsche's and a Aston Martin DB9. Knowing B&W I'm sure the new series is great but close to $25k after taxes is getting silly. I'm very happy with what I have and to be honest the new ones aren't as sexy looking. Why don't you buy a set and let us know how they sound?

[TomScrut]

Why don't you buy a set and let us know how they sound?

I can't afford a pair of 802s, and as I own 802D2s I don't really see the point in getting anything less. I could only afford mine ex demo anyway. But my ability to afford them does not make the price changes right or wrong in my eyes. If I had the money, I would consider them. You guys aren't considering them without even hearing them by the looks of it, and most of the complaints are not 'I can't afford them' it's 'they are too expensive', so lack of affordability doesn't seem like the issue.



Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

[Race Car Driver]

And here I sit with my N802s that I have had for the last 11/12 years or so. No intention of giving them up for new B&Ws. Would love to add some 800s some day however.

Wish the HTM1D would make a comeback..

[dan87951]

And here I sit with my N802s that I have had for the last 11/12 years or so. No intention of giving them up for new B&Ws. Would love to add some 800s some day however.

Wish the HTM1D would make a comeback..

They didn't sell many of those centers at all from what my dealer told me. I doubt B&W would bring them back but it would be cool.