Experiences with CP 800

[gerardhn]

Hi All,

Today I got a CP 800 for try!

I worked hard with it, and want to share my experiences.

After CP 800, I have CA 2300, 802 DI.

I summarize:


1. CDP 100 connected with XLR ------> 100 %

2. CDP 100 connected with coaxial digital ------> 90 -95% (good !)


but .....

3. Same CD played from Hard Disc from note book with mediaplayer as .wav over USB --------> 60 % maybe 50 %.


4. Ethernet Cat 5 .... not tryed, but very curious if this gives coaxial digital result or USB.


I think this can give some nice discussions!
Would like to know/hear from Classe if ethernet is more like USB (shit) or coaxial digital (ok)

Question remains for me, after my qualification ....

is CDP 202 (true high end player) /CP 700 (real high end pre) not a better feed for CA 2300???

Gerard

[wildtangent]

but .....

3. Same CD played from Hard Disc from note book with mediaplayer as .wav over USB --------> 60 % maybe 50 %.

Here USB blows SPDIF away.

What operating system is running on your laptop?

[gerardhn]

Xp.....

[beden1]

Hi All,

Today I got a CP 800 for try!

I worked hard with it, and want to share my experiences.

After CP 800, I have CA 2300, 802 DI.

I summarize:


1. CDP 100 connected with XLR ------> 100 %

2. CDP 100 connected with coaxial digital ------> 90 -95% (good !)


but .....

3. Same CD played from Hard Disc from note book with mediaplayer as .wav over USB --------> 60 % maybe 50 %.


4. Ethernet Cat 5 .... not tryed, but very curious if this gives coaxial digital result or USB.


I think this can give some nice discussions!
Would like to know/hear from Classe if ethernet is more like USB (shit) or coaxial digital (ok)

Question remains for me, after my qualification ....

is CDP 202 (true high end player) /CP 700 (real high end pre) not a better feed for CA 2300???

Gerard

Interesting! Thanks for your review.

[londoner]

Hi Gerard - try over USB using an iPod with your CD ripped to Apple Lossless. That way you'll avoid all the complexities of OS, music player etc. which could be having an effect on the signal path.

[Aquarius]

@gerardhn

If you want best from your notebook, use Foobar2000 and USB/SPDIF converter like M2Tech Hiface EVO. There's a lot of options in Foobar that will help you get most of your music files. Do some research. Also DO NOT use native Windows audio drivers.

Once you set it up properly, there's no more comparison between CDP-100 and your PC. Download some hi-res file and you'll see what is CP-800 all about.

[style]

Hi Gerard,

The cdp100 with Xlr is for you better vs. the self player used as trasporter?

the CP700 is not the REAL pre: the 700 is available Demo or new for 1/4 from the original price and is not at the level from the CP800.

Usb: with the Mac notebook & Itunes (Apple losless format) I find that the combo CP800&CA2300 work very fine.
(same with a Ipad)

invest money in a cdp202 is not the solution (of course fo me): have a good fieeling with the CP800 used as Dac/pre/principal unit! is the true street.

Omar

[mjb]

Interesting! Thanks for your review.

Interesting, or flawed?

[RebelMan]

Computer Audiophile is required reading for anyone attempting to use a computer as a bit perfect audio source.

[style]

Mike,
Gerarg is a friend but I don't have the same "sensation" that Gerard have with the new Classe gears.

I have the CA2300 and the CA3200 side by side: really my CA2300 make "noise" like the CA3200 or the CA2200!!!
I dont can

I'm very surprised that Gerard have this "problem!"

At the start the fan runs for 5 / 10 seconds max. even less: after nothing, no noise! 0 DB as the CAx200!
and I can not understand these problems by Gerard!
I can assure you that I am very careful, I am not content, if is ok right, if no ampli back!
CA2300 also because it is not cheap! and I'm not a millionaire!
Before purchasing the ca2300 I have stability with my friend of Classe that if I had these problems I returned the amp!!
My dealer has not made problems: he said there are no problems if you are not satisfied you can return the CA2300!

Personaly I'm very safisfaid!, have a 2 x monblock cam300 in place of the ca2300 I go with this option, without doubt!

the C800 is much better versus the CP700: wenn all the "extra card" (ethernet & phono) are avialable and installed the CP800 is the pre high end
with a price .... super perfonance acceptable. no other 2 ch preamp. is at his level.
maybe another brand offers a similar device but with one zero more than the price offered by the CP800!

and consider that my Cp800 is too conedt with the SSP800!!!.
I can not hear any noise from either the CA2300 to 1 meter! nothing!


invest the money in a cpp202 for me make no sense: have a cdplayer is a good thing, I like have the cd cover in my hand, change the disc, read into the covers....but the Usb with the Usb is very great. I dont can say that the usb is 50/60% in quality and the cdp100 , with XLR at 100%!
like you say with XLR the cdp100 work with the dac inside ad the dac from this plyer is really not a top dac!
have a cd palyer connet with coax. is better!! --> a good player not too much expensive is really enough

I found that have a good turntable, like the clearaudio "Concept" and a player , a cambridge 840 or a yamaha s2000 is a very good choice.
Other solution for "liquid music" like a marantz N7004, Yamaha,... are a good and "unexpensive" version vs. the Cp800 but the level is really not the same!!!!!


Style

[RebelMan]

Hi Gerard - try over USB using an iPod with your CD ripped to Apple Lossless. That way you'll avoid all the complexities of OS, music player etc. which could be having an effect on the signal path.

Yep this is true and that's why I suggested using an iPod with the CP-800 to begin with. The CP-800 has native support for the iPod (iOS) family! It's nice and easy. Just the way it should be.

[style]

Sorry Rebelman,

you have the ssp300 and the cp700 (and CAm400) is correct'
(800d as mains)

a CP800 is a target for you or no?

thx. Style

[aarsoe]

Yep this is true and that's why I suggested using an iPod with the CP-800 to begin with. The CP-800 has native support for the iPod (iOS) family! It's nice and easy. Just the way it should be.

Just remember that if what you have on your iPod is not full res, then it will still sound horrible on the CP-800. No perfect USB connection can make up for compression..
What comes in = what comes out.

[windshear]

What does it say on the unit as to where its made. Is it China or still Canada?
Thanks

[style]

Made in Canada :T

[style]

Just remember that if what you have on your iPod is not full res, then it will still sound horrible on the CP-800. No perfect USB connection can make up for compression.. What comes in = what comes out.

That's corect!

is a song come compressed at 70% come out to at 70%!


aarsoe, with the Cp800 & CA2300 perdonaly i'm very very sadisfait!
no ampli noise, NOTHING! my CA23 wor side by side the the CA32000 and I can asure you that I dont can heart nothing from the fan. is ike with the CA2200.
but the sound is more porformer. with the 802di the 100 watt nore vs. teh ca2200 make a sound very fine.

if you have a cdp502 try with the xlr, with other player (cdp100/102 use the palyr as trasporter): with the Oppo 95 I dont have idea. my 95 will be consigned in a paar week.

the Oppo dac is in every case a good component and in audio can give sadisfaction.


with the Apple gear's famlly the apple loless format give the same quality from a cd disc.
style

[gerardhn]

THX for the discussions..

No yet tryed the more open, (less apple dependant), ethernet?

[gerardhn]

Some afterthoughts.

Who directly A/B compared CD payer, connected analogue, to DAC of CP 800, connected digitally from CD player???

After one day: still I find the diamond tweeter is more shocking, doing more; bas somewhat more deep, when I connect CD 100 via XLR....

[Srrndhound]

Just remember that if what you have on your iPod is not full res, then it will still sound horrible on the CP-800. No perfect USB connection can make up for compression..

The discussion was about lossless compression, not lossy. Londoner said: >>an iPod with your CD ripped to Apple Lossless.<<

What comes in = what comes out.

Exactly. That's the definition of lossless. Now if what you are saying is that CDs are not full rez, that's a different discussion.

[londoner]

Some afterthoughts.

Who directly A/B compared CD payer, connected analogue, to DAC of CP 800, connected digitally from CD player???

After one day: still I find the diamond tweeter is more shocking, doing more; bas somewhat more deep, when I connect CD 100 via XLR....

I did that comparison yesterday but it was with my 21-year old Meridian 208, so expected improvement when moving to the CP-800 DACs which there certainly was - a significant step up.

Not exactly the same thing but I've previously heard Classe CDP-202 analogue in compared to Arcam blu-ray digital in into SSP-800 and that was close enough to be hard to call (at least to me).

[gerardhn]

Aquarius.....you are a genius!

I just installed foobar, did not use( to my knowledge) USB/SPDIF converter like M2Tech Hiface EVO you mentioned.

Amazing. Its equal with coax spif from cd. With simple usb cable I had somewhere from old scanner. (You need to have the B ones ..).
Understand that I feed my notebook over the air (wifi N) out of NAS with the .wavs!
WAV's were created with EAC

Discovery thanks to you Aquarius. Discovery of 2011.

Windows mediaplayer is rubbish, not usb. FOOBAR !!! FOODOOBAR??

I dont see my nice albums arts in foobar btw.

[beden1]

Yep this is true and that's why I suggested using an iPod with the CP-800 to begin with. The CP-800 has native support for the iPod (iOS) family! It's nice and easy. Just the way it should be.

Does the SSP-800 have the same "native support for the iPod (iOS) family" as you said the CP-800 has?

[aarsoe]

Nope

[RebelMan]

Sorry Rebelman,

you have the ssp300 and the cp700 (and CAm400) is correct'
(800d as mains)

a CP800 is a target for you or no?

thx. Style

Sold the SSP-300 and CP-800 several years ago. I have an interest in the CP-800 but plan to wait a while until a) I can AB it and b) it's more complete.

[RebelMan]

Just remember that if what you have on your iPod is not full res, then it will still sound horrible on the CP-800. No perfect USB connection can make up for compression..
What comes in = what comes out.

I made the assertion earlier that optimal performance necessitates the use of uncompressed or lossless compression of source files. Good performance can still be had with some derivative of lossy compression too.

[RebelMan]

Does the SSP-800 have the same "native support for the iPod (iOS) family" as you said the CP-800 has?

Unfortunately no.

[gerardhn]

Friends.

After discovering the importance of an PC player..
I read German magazine: there they tested 3 players.
For sound quality:

1. Stealth audio player
2. Jriver Mediacenter
3. Foobar 2000

FYI,
nice to try/play with..

[style]

hi Gerard,

you use a windows as os? that's correcht?

for me with the CP800 at toda that Apple family gve the best performance.
in every case the "dream/ideal" soft to have the best from the CP800 via Usb is very try, try, & try!

I have the cp800 connect with the SSP800 : the by-pas/pass th. is important but I go connect the CP800 direct with the CA2300 to see is this give more "sadisfaction" but I don't think....


use little gears like the M2TECH Hiface (PC->Mac/Pc->CP800) make no sense....

the cdp100 with XLR make you very happy but is , for me a little strange. with our "old pre" the connection via coax. was the best or?
the "new sound" from the tweeter dont can come from the connection of the cdp100 via Xlr!




the set vie CA2300, CP800, Meridian system,... have a cdp player. the 202.
i think that a cd player in a more simply setup(CP800-CA2300-MAC&CDplayer ) need a very good cdplayer . the cdp100 in expenseive for what can do.

(ok, have all in Classe design into the rack is nice.. but th choice must be the cdp202, expecially via XLR!)

is too true that a new cpd202 is expensive and are available a lot of oter player much better from the 202 from the same price and too for 2/3 from it price!

but at the end is: I will a system to use with CDplayler as FIRST source or i wil a liquic music system?

A cd player at the same level from th cdp100 are at ex. the Cambridge840, the yamaha S2000, maybe a Marantz, EAR from UK is amazing....


at this pint I can pose the qustion I will a "not expensive" (2-3k. euros) cdplayer used at first via coax. AND a great turntable !

so the CP800 is is good connect....give the Best in analog and Digital!

plaese your opiinion!
Omar

[gerardhn]

Yes I use Win7.

I come with an update on my findings after also playing with interconnects.

I can say: equal CP 100 XLR, CDP 100 coax, Foobar(win7) -> USB. (easy to do A/B/C switch test)
Less: CDP 100 rca.
Ethernet: I dont know.

The amazing conclusion is that the notebook has no expensive powercable, the usb cable to CP 880 is an old scanner cable..... And it plays directly on par with things much more expensive.
Maybe statement of a shop here is true: "CD's as storage medium and CD players are something of the previous century". Now the world is true digital/Hard Disc based.

[style]

Gerdard,

the "obtimal" (teoretisch):

CP800 - CA2300 - Apple notebook (or a good win7) - CD player player like CDP202 or other of the same level: but is to try, test,.....


with si one tsup the perfomance from a CD player can be compared at what the usb and "liqud musc" can give you.
Personaly I will have a cd player in my system, at today I domt'can immagine a system withot the CD player...

CA2300: my CA2300 is really like a CA2200 = zeor fan noises!! really I dont can heart NOTHING!!! and the CA3200 place at the rght side frm the CA2300 I have the noise?!?(where???) from teh CA2300!!! really gerard is very very quiet as I would have never thought of your mail! ca2300 is the same kike the CA2200. i'm very supreised from what you wirte!


now go consider the purchasing from the cdp player from Clasé ofr a not so expensive from anther brand.

Omar

[gerardhn]

I will know move my big desktop with coax dig out from to CP 800!

So coax connected not usb.
Lest see what happens..

[gerardhn]

this cp 800 is driving me crazy!.

everything sounds the same ! coax digital from cd, coax digital from pc, usb digital, even xlr analogue!


makes me wondering everything must pass dac from cp...

[gerardhn]

after reading manual ..... of course ...iäm stupid....should have selected analogue bypass for xlr cdp 100!!!!!!!!!

[gerardhn]

Update after a lot experimenting.

USB audio is a more difficult subject than I thought (in W7)

I can confirm the results of a German magazine (stereoplay).

1. Stealth audio player
2. Jriver Mediacenter
3. Foobar 2000

Jriver is overall winner beacuase of interface, the interface of Stealth is weak, maybe shit. Foobar sound has no magic. (you need 802 DI to hear this

In blind test it impossible to distinguish between CP 100 connected via analogue XLR, CP 100 connected coax digital and any software player!

In abc test I would say:
CD: Talking Heads more songs about building and food remastered.

1 Stealth with asio4 all driver 100% (sensational!)
2. CD 100 coax dig 99%
3 CD 100 XLR 98%, more warm , analogue,
4. J River 97%, usb, aiso4all driver
5. Foobar, usb, internaldriver 96 %

I ripped CD with EAC to wav, Stealth also giving less "ticks", digital hickups.
Many CD's need to ripped again, becuase of ticks. Looks like vinyl.

So overall conclusion: if you dont want problems of more hardware, drivers, many parameters and testing.....??
You play with dig coax from transport!

There is not so much more to gain with usb..... and ripping more difficult than I thought (EAC said copy ok, but nevertheless.......)

[RebelMan]

Update after a lot experimenting.

USB audio is a more difficult subject than I thought (in W7)

Honestly gerardhn, you are making this way to difficult on yourself. There is a significantly easier way to do this if you are looking for a simple plug-n-play solution and for the best performance possible.

1. Buy an (high capacity) iPod.
2. Rip CD's using iTunes for Windows (in uncompressed or lossless format).
3. Copy files to iPod.
4. Plug iPod into CP-800 USB port.
5. Push play and enjoy.

When the CP-800 support's AirPlay it will be even easier!

[mjb]

Honestly gerardhn, you are making this way to difficult on yourself. There is a SIGNIFICANTLY easier way to do this if you are looking for a simple plug-n-play solution and for the best performance possible.

1. Buy an (high capacity) iPod.
2. Rip CD's using iTunes for Windows (in uncompressed or lossless format).
3. Copy files to iPod.
4. Plug iPod into CP-800 USB port.
5. Push play and enjoy.

When the CP-800 support's AirPlay it will be even easier!

Why shouldn't gerardhn expect to plug his PC's USB port into the CP-800 and get excellent results? He is obviously experimenting with different transports, albeit software ones, and getting different results - just as if he would with different physical turn-tables, or CD players, or tape decks. His results are unfortunately of little interest to me, being a Mac man, but the hobby is all about experimenting, and these days that means with software as well as hardware.... Good for gerardhn for making the effort to try different software players and sharing his findings here, instead of giving up and just using an iPod.

[RebelMan]

Why shouldn't gerardhn expect to plug his PC's USB port into the CP-800 and get excellent results? He is obviously experimenting with different transports, albeit software ones, and getting different results - just as if he would with different physical turn-tables, or CD players, or tape decks. His results are unfortunately of little interest to me, being a Mac man, but the hobby is all about experimenting, and these days that means with software as well as hardware.... Good for gerardhn for making the effort to try different software players and sharing his findings here, instead of giving up and just using an iPod.

Nothing wrong with it but I see more frustration than enjoyment with his posts. And that is beside the point. Shouldn't it be about the music first?

I like to tinker too but only if the results are rewarding. It seems gerardhn's results haven't been too rewarding to him and it appears from his position that it rests on the shoulders of the CP-800. It shouldn't.

[gerardhn]

Rebelman,

With my CP 800 I entered a new field of getting bits and bytes from a PC to the usb port of the CP80. That result can be compared to classical cd player.
Thats a new exciting field for me, certainly not frustrating. I have put nothing on teh shoulders of the 800.
My initial experiments learned me that is just not a simple transport as I initiallly thought.
There no various printing programs that give more beautifull prints over the usb port, there no no special copy programs to copy data to external harddisks that copy better.
To transfer audio, world is totally different! Players make a difference. Even usb audio cables enter up now, to connect to pc and dac, cq CP 800.
I make my journey in W7 platform. I dont use apple, I cannot oversee if things are straightforward on Mac OS platform. Also there I read that std itunes is not the best sounding player.

[RebelMan]

My initial experiments learned me that is just not a simple transport as I initiallly thought.

Some tools are better suited for the job than others. Your experiments and my example illustrate how complicated or easy it can be.

I make my journey in W7 platform. I dont use apple, I cannot oversee if things are straightforward on Mac OS platform. Also there I read that std itunes is not the best sounding player.

That's the risk and the challenge you face making that decision. Again, choosing the right tool for the job is a more prudent course of action. Next to the iPod/iPhone iTunes on a Mac is the best application for bit perfect sound reproduction. It's only failing (for now) is lack of native support for high resolution (24bit/88-176kHz) files. People that need hires support today can buttress iTunes with the expensive Amarra program. But that will not be necessary for the majority of people. Most hires music does not cater to the mainstream crowds. If and when that changes iTunes will change along with that, from what I hear.

[mjb]

I don't want to hi-jack the thread, but....

Next to the iPod/iPhone iTunes on a Mac is the best application for bit perfect sound reproduction. It's only failing (for now) is lack of native support for high resolution (24bit/88-176kHz) files. People that need hires support today can buttress iTunes with the expensive Amarra program. But that will not be necessary for the majority of people.

All true, except the native support is there, just not the automatic switching in iTunes. Hence either a visit to the Midi program before launching iTunes, or integrating a program like Amarra which can change the sampling rate on the fly. Or, obviously not using iTunes at all!

There's a new program in the App Store which challenges Amarra for a fraction of the price: BitPerfect by Tim Murison. You might like to try it. I am enjoying very promising results It offers a number of features including automatic sample rate switching, and sounds fantastic :T

gerardhn, you might want to save up for a Mac Mini after all, RebalMan is quite correct in his assessment 8)

[gerardhn]

ok, i will think about buying an apple!

never used it , always windows ..

but I like wav and flac, I will not convert to those apple only formats...

so I doubt if a mac player wil understand the standard waf..

[RebelMan]

All true, except the native support is there, just not the automatic switching in iTunes. Hence either a visit to the Midi program before launching iTunes, or integrating a program like Amarra which can change the sampling rate on the fly. Or, obviously not using iTunes at all!

I don't want to mince words but the support is not available within, i.e., native to, iTunes. It is available in other applications or as you suggested in the MIDI utility but as you know it's a manual pain in the butt to use because you have to visit it and reload iTunes every time you switch between sample rates.

I heeded your suggestion of BitPerfect and it appears to have real potential. Thank you for the tip.

[RebelMan]

ok, i will think about buying an apple!

never used it , always windows ..

but I like wav and flac, I will not convert to those apple only formats...

so I doubt if a mac player wil understand the standard waf..

WAV is supported on both platforms but it's not very metadata friendly, meaning you cannot embed album art into the file, among other things. You could convert the files to AIFF which is not platform specific and it happily supports metadata content. It's not compressed though so you will loose some space if that is important to you. FLAC is more universally recognized but it is not available for playback in iTunes, as-is, but you can make modifications to iTunes and perform a little file extension manipulation to change that. Play .wma, Ogg, and FLAC files in iTunes

[Aquarius]

There's no way listening to hi-res formats greater than 24/96 just plugging PC into CP-800 via USB cable. As I wrote before, USB/SPDIF converter is needed.

Even if you satisfied only with 24/96 there's no way to put it in iPhone/iPod/iPad as a flac file or even play it.

To be honest, 16/44 is far below of CP-800 possibilities. Hi-res formats are meant to be played on CP-800. Only than you can expect an audio bliss. This is truly great machine, and by far the best DAC I've heard in a long time.

[RebelMan]

There are limits to the (iPod) medium just as there are with CD's but that shouldn't deter one from using it. In my experience the quality of the master far exceeds the transfer. While it may seem the benefits (when they exist) of hires media are due to the format's higher bit length and increased sample rate, it's rarely the case seen by keen observers. Generally a new transfer also includes a remastered print of the recording. It's this distinction between the mediums that usually dominates one's observation of change or perception of improvement. The benefits of a higher transcode are not to be overlooked but are not to be exaggerated either.