800 Diamonds in Canada

[Rod#S]

Hi;

I was wondering, it's been ages since I seen the Canadian list of the 800 series Diamond lineup, can the 800 Diamonds be had, new, for less than 20k Canadian, before taxes obviously? The 802 Diamonds come in closer to 10k when actually purchased then they do 20k so I was curious how close the 800 Diamonds come to 20k as oppoesed to the 30k which I think their list price was approaching.

Thanks

[Rod#S]

Just revisiting this thread I started. I've been thinking about the 800 Diamonds again and would really like to know a good ball park amount for these speakers in Canada, not MSRP but actual sales price. I would like a frame of reference because my dealer has never sold a pair of these. I can only use the percentage I got for my 802 Diamonds as a reference, obviously I will not consider buying them for a percentage less then I got for my 802 Diamonds but I'm wondering if it's reasonable/unreasonable to expect to be able to perhaps get a better deal on a more expensive item?

The 802 Diamonds were the single most expensive purchase I have ever made and the 800's would be an order of magnitude more again so I'm swimming in uncharted territory in haggling price on expensive items.

Thanks

[PewterTA]

Basically you have to consider the fact that it's not a "large volume" selling speaker...so the discounts aren't going to be great.

Anything from 5% - 10% and you should basically consider yourself lucky. If you can work out free delivery or a break on the taxes or something might help. It all depends on what people are willing to do.

Every once in a while you'll find someone willing to sell just above dealer cost (I used to have that), but that typically is few and far between as they are trying to run a business where a lot of those products you don't move. But if you get two dealers willing to undercut each other to get the sale then maybe you can get a good deal.

[Rod#S]

Thanks for your input, much appreaciated.

There is a retailer close by that does actually offer a sale of sorts typically twice a year where they pay the taxes but unfortunately they are not a B&W dealer. I bought my Pioneer Kuro from them and came away with an exceptional deal as I bought it during one of the tax free sales and I was shocked that they still gave me a great discount on top of that as that was the first item I had ever purchased from them.

Unfortunately my B&W dealer all but laughed when I asked if they do a similar thing from time to time when I was getting the 802 Diamonds and HTM2 Diamond priced up last year. It's amazing how different dealers approach pricing, what one considers a great opportunity to get customers in the door others look at it as a big loss in profit.

[SPACEMANRICK]

Stop the insanity Rod, when will you stop moving up the B&W speaker food chain....I guess once you have reached the top at the 800D speakers :T

When I bought my 802D speakers last April I was told by my dealer and read on forums that B&W would cut off retailers if they were excessively discounting their speakers. I am not sure how true that is but that is what I was told. Having said that, after trading in my 804S speakers to the dealer and buying my Cambridge Audio amplifiers from my dealer in B.C. I am very happy with the net cash amount I had to pay my dealer for the 802D speakers and Cambridge amps. My dealer ended up giving me a very good discount on the 802D speakers and sold me the Cambridge amps at close to his cost.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the profit margin on 800 series speakers was around 40%. On a $20,000 speaker that is a lot of profit and leaves a lot of room for a discount and also a good profit for the dealer. At least in B.C., I would consider a 10% discount pretty standard and a 15% discount very good and a 20% discount exceptional. For those outside of Canada, please keep in mind that the retail on the 802D speakers is $16,000 in Canada compared to I believe $15,000 in the USA + we have 12% tax here in B.C.

[Rod#S]

lol...My head is always filled with what if's :B I never thought I would ever own 802's and even before I decided to go for it last year I have always had a dream B&W system in my mind which consists of 3 800's and 4 802's. So now that I'm approaching the point where I can buy again I have to at least think about the 800's.

Since I absolutely love my 802's, I just can't stop listening to them and looking at them, they are amazing and should I not be able to add 800's I'm not going to find myself looking at the 802s in disgust and that's a very nice position to be in. If the 800s prove to be out of reach a 2nd pair of 802s would most likely be inbound unless I decide to add more power to the 802's first and get a pair of Bryston 7B-SST squared amps. I am confident however if I had of went for 803s last year I would have regrets because it's the 802/800 design that really draws me to the B&Ws.

Dang, 40%, wow, that's huge, I never knew the margin was so high.

[Rod#S]

Hi everyone, sorry for revisiting this thread one last time. I would like to extend my question to the US residents on here.

It has come to light that with the Canadian dollar having been above the US dollar for a while now that some dealers are matching US pricing on different types of products so that got the old Spock eyebrow rising.

I'm not looking for exact figures (but feel free ) just more of a yes/no response, for those that have purchased the new 800 Diamonds in the US (new, not used) were you able to get them for less than 20k, not including taxes. I'll consider less than 20k say 19,750 and lower and not 19,999.99

Thanks

[Antus]

my old dealer is willing to give 20% off retail price on 802 and 800. another dealer was sticking to msrp. it really depends on the dealer to dealer. some smaller dealer won't have 800 in stock. they might willing to make few thousand dollars just to make few phone calls and order them for u.

[Rod#S]

my old dealer is willing to give 20% off retail price on 802 and 800. another dealer was sticking to msrp. it really depends on the dealer to dealer. some smaller dealer won't have 800 in stock. they might willing to make few thousand dollars just to make few phone calls and order them for u.

Excellent, thanks. So 20% off of $24,000 is $4,800 so that indeed puts the price below 20k so at least it's possible but like you said totally up to the dealer. At least now I have a shot.

Thanks again.

[mpauline]

If you don't get 15-20% discount then I would find another dealer who really wants your business. Consider yourself fortunate that you are in Ontario where there are multiple dealers. I bought mine when I lived there and now I live close to Edmonton. Here there is only one dealer with little stock and a majorly snobbish attitude. I will not be upgrading to 802's any time soon because of the arrogance of the local dealer.

[Rod#S]

If you don't get 15-20% discount then I would find another dealer who really wants your business. Consider yourself fortunate that you are in Ontario where there are multiple dealers. I bought mine when I lived there and now I live close to Edmonton. Here there is only one dealer with little stock and a majorly snobbish attitude. I will not be upgrading to 802's any time soon because of the arrogance of the local dealer.

I actually don't live in Ontario, I'm in Nova Scotia so the options are few and far between here as well but my dealer has been very good and very fair on pricing over the years. Shame you don't have a good dealer in Edmonton. Small markets can be an issue for sure. For Bryston there is only one game in town and there are no Lexicon dealers so when I bought my MC-12 back in 2003 it was done over the phone with a dealer I found in Alberta searching on-line. I got really lucky there as the communication and service was great. The only disapointment was they did not offer a discount on one of the upgrades to the platform a few years later that was being offered in the US.

[mpauline]

I actually don't live in Ontario, I'm in Nova Scotia so the options are few and far between here as well but my dealer has been very good and very fair on pricing over the years. Shame you don't have a good dealer in Edmonton. Small markets can be an issue for sure. For Bryston there is only one game in town and there are no Lexicon dealers so when I bought my MC-12 back in 2003 it was done over the phone with a dealer I found in Alberta searching on-line. I got really lucky there as the communication and service was great. The only disapointment was they did not offer a discount on one of the upgrades to the platform a few years later that was being offered in the US.

Sorry about that I had you confused with someone else who lives in Toronto. By the way that is an impressive list of gear that you have. I bought a Rotel 1098 back in 2003 instead of the MC-12 but I should have bought the Lexicon as I probably would still have it.

[wettou]

Excellent, thanks. So 20% off of $24,000 is $4,800 so that indeed puts the price below 20k so at least it's possible but like you said totally up to the dealer. At least now I have a shot. Thanks again.

Most dealer are no willing to do anything as they want to get their maximum profits, in addition B&W will take their license away if the discount the MSRP!! Isn't this illegal and called price fixing! I though everything was negotiable :B

[Rod#S]

Sorry about that I had you confused with someone else who lives in Toronto. By the way that is an impressive list of gear that you have. I bought a Rotel 1098 back in 2003 instead of the MC-12 but I should have bought the Lexicon as I probably would still have it.

Thanks. The Lexicon was definitely a s%#t load of money when purchased back then because our dollar was in the tubes compared to the US and then I spent around 5k more when I upgraded it to v5EQ with mic kit a couple years later but all in all cost factored over the years she's still running strong and still sounds amazing. The only downside at present is it's not the HD version which added HDMI inputs. Lexicon has offerd two trade in programs over the years on the MC-12HD and the price to upgrade from my MC-12 during the last upgrade program to the MC-12HD would have been 6k but at the time I didn't have any HDMI gear so I viewed the upgrade as not worth it, basically a lot of money for nothing. Most of my video gear has changed since then so now having HDMI would be very nice.

[Rod#S]

So after speaking with my dealer I got the list price, here in Canada it's 26k so not as bad as I thought, only 2k more than the US price and considering the 802's list for $16,500 (I think, maybe it was $16 even) making them $1,500 more than their US counterparts it looks like the 800's got off easy. The downside is no US price matching so even if one could get 20% off, the list price still remains above 20k even before taxes.

[SPACEMANRICK]

I thought I read somewhere (correct me if I am wrong) that the dealer profit margin in Canada on B&W 800 series speakers was around 40%, so on a $26,000 set of speakers that is $10,400 profit 8O .So even with a 20% discount the dealer would still be making over $5,000 gross profit..........pretty good money for just ordering the speakers for you.

In my business, I would take the $5,000 profit for making a phone call and ordering something over no sale and $0 profit.

[Rod#S]

I thought I read somewhere (correct me if I am wrong) that the dealer profit margin in Canada on B&W 800 series speakers was around 40%, so on a $26,000 set of speakers that is $10,400 profit 8O .So even with a 20% discount the dealer would still be making over $5,000 gross profit..........pretty good money for just ordering the speakers for you.

In my business, I would take the $5,000 profit for making a phone call and ordering something over no sale and $0 profit.

Yeah it does make you wonder. Since it's not like they have the speakers on the floor and have paid for them and want to get their money back. Heck even if they make a $1000 (or less) on something they will only ever see in passing would be a win but it doesn't seem to work that way. Perhaps this has something to do with B&W not wanting dealers to sell below MSRP who knows. I would definitely take the $5000, $1000, $500, etc. but I guess it's easy for me to say because I kind of would like the speakers :P

[leo2498]

Yeah it does make you wonder. Since it's not like they have the speakers on the floor and have paid for them and want to get their money back. Heck even if they make a $1000 (or less) on something they will only ever see in passing would be a win but it doesn't seem to work that way. Perhaps this has something to do with B&W not wanting dealers to sell below MSRP who knows. I would definitely take the $5000, $1000, $500, etc. but I guess it's easy for me to say because I kind of would like the speakers :P

jajaja yes both are right but you need to have the import tax in a plus because this speaker ( although they are wonderful, they have a massive weight) so part of his "profit" will going to the state. :T

[vn1]

Once a dealer in Southern California offered to sell me a pair of 800 Diamonds for $17.5K + tax. So Rule of thumb is don't pay msrp for anything. You deserve at least 20% off from msrp in general.

[Greg Gale]

Discount on B&W

Once a dealer in Southern California offered to sell me a pair of 800 Diamonds for $17.5K + tax. So Rule of thumb is don't ever pay msrp for anything. You deserve at least 20% off from msrp in general.

In Chicago Audio Consultants will give a 5% discount from retail as a general rule but to go beyond that would only be possible if you were purchasing a demo unit. I believe B&W is quite strict about what thier products are sold for and they do not allow thier speakers to be sold on line or across State boundaries.

So while you feel people deserve at least 20% that is not the way it works at least with my experience with dealers carrying B&W equipment.

[vn1]

In Chicago Audio Consultants will give a 5% discount from retail as a general rule but to go beyond that would only be possible if you were purchasing a demo unit. I believe B&W is quite strict about what thier products are sold for and they do not allow thier speakers to be sold on line or across State boundaries.

So while you feel people deserve at least 20% that is not the way it works at least with my experience with dealers carrying B&W equipment.

So I guess I have so many hungry dealers around me .

[stuofsci02]

Once a dealer in Southern California offered to sell me a pair of 800 Diamonds for $17.5K + tax. So Rule of thumb is don't ever pay msrp for anything. You deserve at least 20% off from msrp in general.

Did you buy them at that price?

[vn1]

Did you buy them at that price?

No, I did not.

[stuofsci02]

No, I did not.

Not to be picky, but unless you actually bought them at that price it is not a good example..

[Rod#S]

Once a dealer in Southern California offered to sell me a pair of 800 Diamonds for $17.5K + tax. So Rule of thumb is don't pay msrp for anything. You deserve at least 20% off from msrp in general.

$17.5k is a DAMN good price. Were they the current generation 800's or the first gen 800D's? I could definitely see a $17.5k on gen 1 diamonds if the dealer had them in stock after the current generation diamonds were announced. For one the MSRP was a bit less and two they may have been, or at least thought to be harder to sell by the dealer because people might view them as out of date thus prompting the dealer to put a firesale type price on them. Also if they were in stock and on the floor they would be demos which tend to get priced generously.

Now if they were new current gen diamonds I reckon that's one of the best prices around.

[Antus]

as i said, it's really depends on dealer's style of doing business. Some may work with u on the deal some want to make more profit.

with that said, i think reasonable profit is necessary for dealers. The product come with 5 year warranty that the dealer will count that in. plus, shipping to your house cost them money, too. properly set up cost them money too. a speaker like 800Diamond will require a good size truck and 3 people minium. their half day labor cost money too. those things will all eat into profit.

for my dealer, on higher end product like 800Diamond and 802Diamond, 20% discount. for 805 Diamond, more like 12-15% discount. less discount on lower end model.

in addition, u can pay cash and work with dealer on tax..... can't say too much on this subject, but u get the idea.

[Rod#S]

That's a good point about costs associated with delivery and setup. Even though a dealer may say there is no charge I guess the chances are it's been factored into his quoted price so it's not being done for free and out of his pocket. When I had my 802's delievered the dealer hired a moving company since they didn't have a shop owned vehicle for the job and two delivery guys brought the speakers up accompanied by the dealer and all three unboxed the speakers. After the delivery guys left the dealer gave the speakers a thorough inspection for any defects and then spent about a half hour or so playing with positioning to find the sweet spot within the room placement limits I had to work with.

For my HTM2. The dealer drove it over in his car and brought it up and helped me unpack it and also helped with the stand assembly.

The service was indeed great and I couldn't have asked for anything more.

[mpauline]

That's a good point about costs associated with delivery and setup. Even though a dealer may say there is no charge I guess the chances are it's been factored into his quoted price so it's not being done for free and out of his pocket. When I had my 802's delievered the dealer hired a moving company since they didn't have a shop owned vehicle for the job and two delivery guys brought the speakers up accompanied by the dealer and all three unboxed the speakers. After the delivery guys left the dealer gave the speakers a thorough inspection for any defects and then spent about a half hour or so playing with positioning to find the sweet spot within the room placement limits I had to work with.

For my HTM2. The dealer drove it over in his car and brought it up and helped me unpack it and also helped with the stand assembly.

The service was indeed great and I couldn't have asked for anything more.

Very good points. I got an 18% discount but had to pay to have the speakers delivered. Plus I had to move them around for set up myself.

[Greg Gale]

My dealer did the same for me. They unboxed them at my home and picked up my old ones which I received a good trade-in for. They moved them into positioned and fine tuned them until I was satisfied.

This dealer I have been doing business with for over 20 years and I feel I got a good deal for what I paid for.

[mpauline]

Did you buy the 800D's as I could sure use a pair of 802D's :-) I think the 803D's will go to the rear channels.

[Rod#S]

lol...not yet and no can do on selling the 802's, they are here to stay

[mpauline]

Cheers....can't blame a guy for trying.

[Skyblue]

Cheers....can't blame a guy for trying.

If you don't try, you don't succeed.