801D vs 802Di

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • stuofsci02
    Super Senior Member
    • Nov 2009
    • 1241

    801D vs 802Di

    Hi,

    I have been thinking of simplifying and going to a two channel stereo setup (plus two subs for movies only) instead of my current 5.2 setup. I currently have 804s + HTM3s up front and CM7 in the rear. I would sell the 804s and HTM3s and move the CM7 upstairs. I would go for a bigger better pair of B&Ws for my stereo setup.

    My dealer has a pair of 801D that were floor demos (these were in his special room) and he has them boxed back up as the 802Di are now the floor demos in the special room. I have listened and drooled over the 801D. He is willing to let them go for $15k Canadian (and that is without negotiating). He can do the new 802Di for $16k Canadian.

    I think the MSRP on the 801D was about $23k.

    Given these prices what would be a better buy? I have not yet heard the 802Di.

    The room is 18 ft wide and 23ft long, so space is no concern.

    Cheers,

    Stuart
    Main System:
    B&W 801D
    Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
    Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
    Oppo BDP-105
    Squeezebox Touch


    Second System:
    B&W CM7
    Emotiva UMC-1
    Emotiva UPA-2
    Oppo BDP-83SE
    Grant Fidelity DAC-09
  • Rod#S
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2010
    • 474

    #2
    hmmm, very interesting delimma. First things first, if he is making such a nice offer it seems the least he can do is for you and him to arrange a time in the store where he can unbox the 801D's and place them side by side the 802Dis and let you get a nice long demo where you can compare both. I know my dealer wouldn't mind in the least allowing me an extended in store demo if such the situation presented itself. They have certainly done so for a sale of far less money.

    How much use do you think the 801Ds have had and do do you think they have been driven hard? I would also want a very close look at the tweeters in both 801Ds.

    Rod
    B&W 800 Diamonds (L/R), HTM2 Diamond (C), 802 Diamonds (SL/SR), Paradigm Signature Sub 25 (LFE), Reference Servo 15a x 2 (Stereo subs), Lexicon MC-12Bv5EQ SSP, Bryston 28B-SST2x 2, 7B-SST2x2, 4B-SST C Series, BDP-2, Oppo UDP-205, Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-150FD, Furman SPR-20i, IT-Reference, Eastlink Maestro PVR, Xbox One & 360, PS3, Siltech Golden Ridge II, Ruby Hill IIx2, 330ix2, Kimber Kable PK10 Gold, Tonic, PBJ, Cadence, HD19e, HD19, OPT-1, HDSW 4x1, Ixos 6003, Harmony 1000

    Comment

    • Rod#S
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2010
      • 474

      #3
      Oh, what subs are you planing on using, you keeping your 2 Emotiva Ultra 12s? With you keeping the subs I'm inclined to say go with the 802 Diamonds but I guess I'm a bit biased as I own the 802 Diamonds and also have multiple subs. I have never heard the 801Ds so unfortunately I can't give a comparison between the 2.

      One further thing, will you get the warranty with the 801Ds?
      B&W 800 Diamonds (L/R), HTM2 Diamond (C), 802 Diamonds (SL/SR), Paradigm Signature Sub 25 (LFE), Reference Servo 15a x 2 (Stereo subs), Lexicon MC-12Bv5EQ SSP, Bryston 28B-SST2x 2, 7B-SST2x2, 4B-SST C Series, BDP-2, Oppo UDP-205, Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-150FD, Furman SPR-20i, IT-Reference, Eastlink Maestro PVR, Xbox One & 360, PS3, Siltech Golden Ridge II, Ruby Hill IIx2, 330ix2, Kimber Kable PK10 Gold, Tonic, PBJ, Cadence, HD19e, HD19, OPT-1, HDSW 4x1, Ixos 6003, Harmony 1000

      Comment

      • Pedro
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2006
        • 303

        #4
        The MSRP of 801D initiallly was USD16K then it was rised to USD18K as what happened with the older Ds before the new Di been released.

        In my opinion if you liked the 801D go ahead and buy them. They really worth what they cost. I dont know also 802Di but you will be happy with the bass and dynamics 801D will deliver to you I think better than 802Di which will mainly improve the details and will not be complete as the 801 is.

        Comment

        • stuofsci02
          Super Senior Member
          • Nov 2009
          • 1241

          #5
          The pair of 801D's are in perfect condition. The way the dealer was setup, the 801D were in a dedicated listening room with the expensive stuff away from and kids etc. They would be sold as new with full warranty from B&W. I have no concerns over the fact that they have been used lightly for demo purposes.

          The store is just moving now and reopening in two weeks, so I can audition both speakers then.

          The question is which is the better speaker...
          Main System:
          B&W 801D
          Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
          Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
          Oppo BDP-105
          Squeezebox Touch


          Second System:
          B&W CM7
          Emotiva UMC-1
          Emotiva UPA-2
          Oppo BDP-83SE
          Grant Fidelity DAC-09

          Comment

          • Rod#S
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2010
            • 474

            #6
            Looking at the specs and reading people's comments on these and other forums who own or have heard the 801Ds like yourself and the new 802 Diamonds I would say the top end of the new Diamonds would have the advantage and quite possibly the mid range as well unless the 801Ds had better crossovers then the new 802 Diamonds. In the bass department I would say the 801D should win hands down with that huge 15" driver.
            B&W 800 Diamonds (L/R), HTM2 Diamond (C), 802 Diamonds (SL/SR), Paradigm Signature Sub 25 (LFE), Reference Servo 15a x 2 (Stereo subs), Lexicon MC-12Bv5EQ SSP, Bryston 28B-SST2x 2, 7B-SST2x2, 4B-SST C Series, BDP-2, Oppo UDP-205, Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-150FD, Furman SPR-20i, IT-Reference, Eastlink Maestro PVR, Xbox One & 360, PS3, Siltech Golden Ridge II, Ruby Hill IIx2, 330ix2, Kimber Kable PK10 Gold, Tonic, PBJ, Cadence, HD19e, HD19, OPT-1, HDSW 4x1, Ixos 6003, Harmony 1000

            Comment

            • beden1
              Super Senior Member
              • Oct 2006
              • 1676

              #7
              I love the 801Ds and I'm not sure you would need sub woofers as they may just cloud the bass output of the 801Ds.

              Full body that none of the other B&W speakers can command, at least in the 800D series. I have not heard the new 800 Diamonds to be able to offer a comparison.

              Comment

              • Pedro
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2006
                • 303

                #8
                Originally posted by Rod#S
                Looking at the specs and reading people's comments on these and other forums who own or have heard the 801Ds like yourself and the new 802 Diamonds I would say the top end of the new Diamonds would have the advantage and quite possibly the mid range as well unless the 801Ds had better crossovers then the new 802 Diamonds.
                And I´ve read comments by 1 or 2 users here who just trade their M801S3 for the 800Di. Some of these who heard the 802Di werent completely satisfied especially in the dynamics and bass departament, even it outputting much more clarity, and detail thanks for the new xovers. So, could be a matter of taste, reference or opinion. I would never trade my 801D for 802Di, which for my taste still the best in the old D series.

                Comment

                • stuofsci02
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Nov 2009
                  • 1241

                  #9
                  I have heard similar things about the 801D. I have heard that they are easy to place and are very forgiving. They also might be easier to drive then the 802Di.
                  Main System:
                  B&W 801D
                  Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                  Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                  Oppo BDP-105
                  Squeezebox Touch


                  Second System:
                  B&W CM7
                  Emotiva UMC-1
                  Emotiva UPA-2
                  Oppo BDP-83SE
                  Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                  Comment

                  • Pedro
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2006
                    • 303

                    #10
                    Yeah, its minimum impedance is rated 4ohm according to some magazine review.

                    I´ve heard the old 800D and preffered the 801D. The most natural sound from B&W without any effort and very forgiving. It carries the same signature sound of the old 801 (except N801 which is a bit analytical) with diamond and xovers improvements. The problem of 801D is they were never so much showcased and that caused the lack of information in the www and finally its exclusion from the new series. I bet if it would still manufacturer including the new xovers would rule again its brothers

                    Comment

                    • Rod#S
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2010
                      • 474

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Pedro
                      And I´ve read comments by 1 or 2 users here who just trade their M801S3 for the 800Di. Some of these who heard the 802Di werent completely satisfied especially in the dynamics and bass departament, even it outputting much more clarity, and detail thanks for the new xovers. So, could be a matter of taste, reference or opinion. I would never trade my 801D for 802Di, which for my taste still the best in the old D series.
                      There certainly has been a lot of 800 Diamond purchases posted on the forums lately, seems to be much more so than the old 800D. I wonder if it's because the 801 didn't get carreid over and like you say the 802 Diamonds just don't cut it for a lot of people. Not being satisfied in the bass department with the 802 Diamonds doesn't surprise me especially if people had the fortune to listen to the old 801D, 800D and 800 Diamonds. With the 801D at least you basically get a subwoofer withthat speaker. I find the look of the 801D interesting, it's the only tower with a 15" speaker that I can think of that when you look at it you think, wow, that's a massive driver. In comparison, take the Focal Grande Utopia EM or the Wilson Alexandria Series 2 X-2, those 2 speakers are soo tall, to see the speakers in a picture without a frame of reference for scale you would never know the larger drivers were 15".
                      B&W 800 Diamonds (L/R), HTM2 Diamond (C), 802 Diamonds (SL/SR), Paradigm Signature Sub 25 (LFE), Reference Servo 15a x 2 (Stereo subs), Lexicon MC-12Bv5EQ SSP, Bryston 28B-SST2x 2, 7B-SST2x2, 4B-SST C Series, BDP-2, Oppo UDP-205, Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-150FD, Furman SPR-20i, IT-Reference, Eastlink Maestro PVR, Xbox One & 360, PS3, Siltech Golden Ridge II, Ruby Hill IIx2, 330ix2, Kimber Kable PK10 Gold, Tonic, PBJ, Cadence, HD19e, HD19, OPT-1, HDSW 4x1, Ixos 6003, Harmony 1000

                      Comment

                      • Pedro
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2006
                        • 303

                        #12
                        Well if you think the 801D just include a SW do yourself a favor and listen to them, you will see it´s not just having "extra" bass. Its shape could be weird for some people, but many vintage speakers had one BIG bass drive.

                        And no way to compare them to these big ones which of course have more than one large woofer and that´s why you can´t notice the 15" drivers, their cabinet should be bigger, simple. And the fact of the 801D shape, it have nothing to do with its sound. If you look in this way there are many twin 8" speakers smaller than 802Di

                        Comment

                        • DeepEndX
                          Senior Member
                          • Feb 2005
                          • 106

                          #13
                          I have owned the N801, auditioned 801D, and purchased 800D. The only reason why I didn't go for the 801D was my room wasn't big enough (moved to a smaller place.) My friend owns the 802Di in piano black so I am very familiar with it. If you have the proper space, I will get the 801D, if not, the 802Di. The N801 & 801D are beasts and extremely dynamic. With the proper room/room treatments and amps driving them, the experience can be spectacular. However, if you don't have the proper equipment and space, it can be extremely boomy and overbearing.

                          You definitely need to audition the two speakers, make sure all the components & peripherals are the same, and both speakers are broken in.

                          Comment

                          • Kal Rubinson
                            Super Senior Member
                            • Mar 2006
                            • 2109

                            #14
                            Originally posted by stuofsci02
                            I have heard similar things about the 801D. I have heard that they are easy to place and are very forgiving.
                            Really? I have heard the exact opposite about all the 801 series. I have no personal experience with them but avoided them, in preference to the 800 series, for just that reason.
                            Kal Rubinson
                            _______________________________
                            "Music in the Round"
                            Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
                            http://forum.stereophile.com/category/music-round

                            Comment

                            • stuofsci02
                              Super Senior Member
                              • Nov 2009
                              • 1241

                              #15
                              Kal,

                              You might well be right. I am trying to find where I heard that the 801D was more forgiving.

                              I think the 801D does not dip as low in the impedance as the 802. This could mean, that while still requiring big power, it is a little easier on the amp. I could be wrong though.
                              Main System:
                              B&W 801D
                              Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                              Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                              Oppo BDP-105
                              Squeezebox Touch


                              Second System:
                              B&W CM7
                              Emotiva UMC-1
                              Emotiva UPA-2
                              Oppo BDP-83SE
                              Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                              Comment

                              • Rod#S
                                Senior Member
                                • Oct 2010
                                • 474

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Pedro
                                Well if you think the 801D just include a SW do yourself a favor and listen to them, you will see it´s not just having "extra" bass. Its shape could be weird for some people, but many vintage speakers had one BIG bass drive.

                                And no way to compare them to these big ones which of course have more than one large woofer and that´s why you can´t notice the 15" drivers, their cabinet should be bigger, simple. And the fact of the 801D shape, it have nothing to do with its sound. If you look in this way there are many twin 8" speakers smaller than 802Di
                                I think you missunderstood as I was not implying that the 801D was a fancy subwoofer nor was I implying that it's small size in comparison to the Focal and Wilson put it at some sort of disadvantage based on that alone. Those 2 are 100k+ speakers and are in an entirely different league in my opinion. I just brought them up because I knew they also used 15" drivers and I don't know of many speakers that do. I have no doubt the 801D sounds wonderful, heck it wasn't much cheaper than the 800D and quite a bit more money than the 802D and reading what people say when they compare the new 802 Diamond to the new 800 Diamond with the differences in no way subtle to me that implies the 801D would be quite the speaker indeed.

                                As for speakers cabinets varying in size and shape with similar sized drivers I definitely know about that, my Paradigm Studio 100v2s have 2 8.5" bass drivers and although the speaker cabinet is almost the same height as my 802 Diamonds, the 802s are much wider, deeper and heavier and they blow the Paradigms away :B
                                B&W 800 Diamonds (L/R), HTM2 Diamond (C), 802 Diamonds (SL/SR), Paradigm Signature Sub 25 (LFE), Reference Servo 15a x 2 (Stereo subs), Lexicon MC-12Bv5EQ SSP, Bryston 28B-SST2x 2, 7B-SST2x2, 4B-SST C Series, BDP-2, Oppo UDP-205, Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-150FD, Furman SPR-20i, IT-Reference, Eastlink Maestro PVR, Xbox One & 360, PS3, Siltech Golden Ridge II, Ruby Hill IIx2, 330ix2, Kimber Kable PK10 Gold, Tonic, PBJ, Cadence, HD19e, HD19, OPT-1, HDSW 4x1, Ixos 6003, Harmony 1000

                                Comment

                                • bigburner
                                  Super Senior Member
                                  • May 2005
                                  • 2649

                                  #17
                                  I heard a pair of 801Ds five or six years ago at B&W New Zealand's head office in Tuam Street, Christchurch, and I was really impressed during the brief opportunity that I had to listen to them. I was visiting B&W on other business and passed the room where they were playing. An Eric Clapton CD was on, which was either a stroke of luck or they were targeting me. I received a 2-song audition and enjoyed the experience. The biggest issue I had with the 801Ds was their physical presence, which makes their placement a challenge in many homes.

                                  Nigel.

                                  Comment

                                  • Pedro
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Jan 2006
                                    • 303

                                    #18
                                    Folks, I am just doing a business getting a pair of brand new Krell Evo 600e. This oportunity had just happened and I´m really proud for the progress. Actually I will plan a new room in my home which I should build exclusively for them, and initially dedicated to stereo auditions as I already have a HT room. Well, I was thinking for a room measuring around 40sqm, in this case, 7,5m width and 5m length. What you people think about this room size? Actually I run them in a 40sqm room but it´s irregular, and I think so I would be satisfied with this kind of area, especially because for my taste I often enjoy the music louder.

                                    Comment

                                    • DeepEndX
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Feb 2005
                                      • 106

                                      #19
                                      Pedro, you will not be disappointed with the Krell's. I've been using Krell's for the past 4 years. Just make sure you have proper supporting XXXXX for your gear .

                                      As for the 801's, from my humble experiences, 801s are not that easy to drive and do require a good amp to bring it to the full potential, or else the bass can sound muddy, soft, and lack of control. The position of the 801's are also an issue if you don't have proper space, angle, and room treatment since it's such a dynamic speaker.

                                      Comment

                                      • Pedro
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Jan 2006
                                        • 303

                                        #20
                                        Yeah I see. Well my only doubt was about the dedicated room with almost 40sqm area. I think they would have enough space to sing out and be positioned. As for the gear, well my dream to have a complete set of evolution is really coming. I should complete the system with one of those new preamps (Phantom, or Phantom 2).

                                        Comment

                                        • SPACEMANRICK
                                          Senior Member
                                          • May 2005
                                          • 200

                                          #21
                                          Stuart, I think the ultimate decision will have to be based on the listening test when you have those 2 speakers together in the same room with the same equipment.

                                          As you know I have had my 802DI speakers for 3 months and love them. I work out of my house and listen to music directly in front of my speakers an average of at least 10 hours per week. The 802DI speakers are spectacular and the highs, midrange, clarity and soundstage are spectacular. However, with some recordings and with my placement of the speakers 4 1/2 feet from the rear wall and with my 18 foot high ceiling I find that sometimes the bass is not as powerful and full as I would like (I have always had a bias towards strong bass). The bass I find is also largely dependent on the specific recording, for example on Santana’s Supernatural, I find Smooth lacking in bass and a little thin, but on the same CD Corazon Espanado sounds truly amazing. I do have a subwoofer that I use at a very low setting to help boost the bass and this seems fill out the sound and add depth to the music. Since you have 2 subwoofers already, you can try the speakers without them and if you don’t need them great..... and if you do, just turn them on.

                                          As for the $16,000 pricing from your Canadian B&W dealer, I think with a $16,500 MSRP in Canada your dealer should hopefully be able to offer a discount greater than $500 on a $16,500 speaker.

                                          Comment

                                          • stuofsci02
                                            Super Senior Member
                                            • Nov 2009
                                            • 1241

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by SPACEMANRICK
                                            Stuart, I think the ultimate decision will have to be based on the listening test when you have those 2 speakers together in the same room with the same equipment.

                                            As you know I have had my 802DI speakers for 3 months and love them. I work out of my house and listen to music directly in front of my speakers an average of at least 10 hours per week. The 802DI speakers are spectacular and the highs, midrange, clarity and soundstage are spectacular. However, with some recordings and with my placement of the speakers 4 1/2 feet from the rear wall and with my 18 foot high ceiling I find that sometimes the bass is not as powerful and full as I would like (I have always had a bias towards strong bass). The bass I find is also largely dependent on the specific recording, for example on Santana’s Supernatural, I find Smooth lacking in bass and a little thin, but on the same CD Corazon Espanado sounds truly amazing. I do have a subwoofer that I use at a very low setting to help boost the bass and this seems fill out the sound and add depth to the music. Since you have 2 subwoofers already, you can try the speakers without them and if you don’t need them great..... and if you do, just turn them on.

                                            As for the $16,000 pricing from your Canadian B&W dealer, I think with a $16,500 MSRP in Canada your dealer should hopefully be able to offer a discount greater than $500 on a $16,500 speaker.
                                            Spacemanrick,

                                            I really value your input, since you also had the 804s. I too work from home, but I usually don't get a chance to listen while I work.

                                            I would like to hold onto the 804s a little longer I think. I really enjoy them, and I feel that I have not listened to them enough. I like to really know a speaker before I move on, and I have had these for only 18 months. I also want to treat my room before I upgrade. Probably I would not be ready to upgrade for another 6-12 months (plus I need wife acceptance, and I have spent a lot on my sound room in the last two years). By then, he may not have the 801Ds anymore, so the point may be moot.

                                            As far as pricing, the numbers he said were just off the cuff. I am sure I would get better pricing then that.

                                            I am looking forward however to making a jump in the future. I have all kinds of room to go big. I think I could fit 801D quite easily. But of course a picture is worth a 1000 words. Cut me some slack on the TV tables.. I have not yet bought furniture for this room (baby steps)...





                                            Main System:
                                            B&W 801D
                                            Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                            Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                            Oppo BDP-105
                                            Squeezebox Touch


                                            Second System:
                                            B&W CM7
                                            Emotiva UMC-1
                                            Emotiva UPA-2
                                            Oppo BDP-83SE
                                            Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                            Comment

                                            • Pedro
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Jan 2006
                                              • 303

                                              #23
                                              nice room, very clean, congrats!

                                              I am sure you´ll get soon what you consider a dream for you. Like you I am on "baby step", I´ve stopped for 3 fuckin years since I bought my 801D, because some indecisions in my life, girlfriend etc.. But this year I just returned with the objective to finished my stereo. I also took a new house where I will build during this rest of year a dedicated room to my set, and for january or february get the rest of electronics. So we have to be patient, expensive toys and lot work (for many of us I believe) to make the dreams come true

                                              Comment

                                              • stuofsci02
                                                Super Senior Member
                                                • Nov 2009
                                                • 1241

                                                #24
                                                Thanks Pedro!
                                                Main System:
                                                B&W 801D
                                                Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                Oppo BDP-105
                                                Squeezebox Touch


                                                Second System:
                                                B&W CM7
                                                Emotiva UMC-1
                                                Emotiva UPA-2
                                                Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                Comment

                                                • DeepEndX
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • Feb 2005
                                                  • 106

                                                  #25
                                                  Pedro:

                                                  40 sq meter space with 5m of length might be a little tight for the 801D. What are your experiences?

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Pedro
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Jan 2006
                                                    • 303

                                                    #26
                                                    Well goof POV. Actually my room isnt regular so i could not give you an impression as I am about to build one with these measures (5x7,5).

                                                    Actually I am projecting the room with a known name person among our audiophiles in my country. He should make a precise calculation to the best accoustic and obtaining a 100cbm room. He suggested me to put them at 5m wall instead at 7,5m one, what do you think about that? And sorry I meant 5m width and 7,5 length.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • DeepEndX
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Feb 2005
                                                      • 106

                                                      #27
                                                      I believe that will be much better, but it is still a little tight. From my experience, the 801s will really sing when you turn up the volume. So being too close to the speakers might cause fatigue in listening. You would also need some good sound proofing. You would need 801s to be one meter away from the back and side wall so that will cut it to 3x6.5. It can be a little less if you have good sound proofing at the corners. You will also need to put your lazy boy/couch into the factor, which will cut minimum 1m length if you have the couch placed to the back wall. Your final measurements would be at least 3x5.5. The best positioning would be a triangle so the length as 5.5m is fine, but the width is a little tight. So its doable, but just make sure you treat your room properly.

                                                      Enjoy the 801s. I miss mine

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Pedro
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Jan 2006
                                                        • 303

                                                        #28
                                                        Thank you for your opinion. And in fact this could still better than the inverse I mean putting them in the 7,5 wall coz I wouldnt have a good length from my "listening chair".

                                                        But I really understand what you say, when listening loud nowadays in my irregular room where I can not site so far the sound become a bit fatiguing. And I was thinking in that for a while back, how important is the distance to be far away from them not just to get the best bass range but also for the highs, coz they tend to sing loud even playing at same time sooo natural and not bright or analytical, what makes them my favorite partner

                                                        Anyway I will take care the accoustic, to get them sound as better as possible in this room :T

                                                        Comment

                                                        Working...
                                                        😀
                                                        😂
                                                        🥰
                                                        😘
                                                        🤢
                                                        😎
                                                        😞
                                                        😡
                                                        👍
                                                        👎
                                                        Searching...Please wait.
                                                        An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                                                        Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                        An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                                                        Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                        An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                                                        There are no results that meet this criteria.
                                                        Search Result for "|||"