2nd hand upgrade dilemma

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  • TonioRoffo
    Junior Member
    • Aug 2010
    • 11

    2nd hand upgrade dilemma

    Hello,

    I'm in the possibility to exchange my (fineer-damanged) pair of Nautilus 804 speakers for a pair of 805S with stands.

    The question now is... is this really an upgrade? I'm not looking at the bass register (I have a B&W 825 that can take care of whatever I'm missing) and I know the newer 80xS is better sounding. However, I'm giving up on the FST in favour of the newer model of speaker.

    As I have N805's as rears, I did a lot of comparing them to the N804, and on some points (speed) N805 comes out on top - but going back to N804 the female voices really seem to have a lot of advantage of the FST.

    Another possible upgrade path is N804 -> 804S for about a €1000 added cost.

    Can you please advise?

    Thanks
  • htsteve
    Super Senior Member
    • Sep 2004
    • 1216

    #2
    TonioRoffo,

    First of all, welcome to the forum! :T

    I've had N804's. They are very nice speakers, especially with a good amp. I also like the FST driver. It's a very good midrange driver.

    Also, you have N805's as rears. The synergy with the N804's will be perfect. While the 805S's are very nice, they will be a bit different from the Nautilus line.

    I don't think replacing the N804's with 805S's will really improve things that much.

    From a synergy perspective, I also believe the 804S's would be a decent upgrade, but also would alter the overall system synergy. Again, I'm not sure for the money it would be a big upgrade.


    What electronics do you have? That maybe a place to look. If you have a multichannel amp driving them now, you might consider a good stereo amp to drive the mains. I've found that powerful stereo amps are better than a comparable wattage multichannel amp.


    Hope this helps.

    Comment

    • TonioRoffo
      Junior Member
      • Aug 2010
      • 11

      #3
      I'm not driving them from a multichannel amp, it lacked a little bit of speed and oomph that way.

      In the end I settled on building a DIY amp, using the amplifier components that can be found in CIaudio's D.200 series and Meridian G95 amps. It consists of pretty great class D amps that can put out a healthy 220W @8ohms per channel, beefed by a 500VA toroid & 40.000uF worth of caps. (Actually Hypex UCD400, they were talked about on this forum.) N804's are notorious for having "lean bass" which has all to do with their 2.8ohm dips in the impedance curve. Since the UCD circuitry has no issues with that, the bottom end of the N804's just sing. Further up the chain, their could be some slight improvements but nothing in the order of a better speaker.

      The synergy is less of an importance to me. 5.1 is fine, and sounds really great, but I really want to get a little more out of stereo listening. Thanks for your feedback.

      Comment

      • htsteve
        Super Senior Member
        • Sep 2004
        • 1216

        #4
        Originally posted by TonioRoffo
        The synergy is less of an importance to me. 5.1 is fine, and sounds really great, but I really want to get a little more out of stereo listening. Thanks for your feedback.
        Given that you have a very nice amp, and that synergy is not paramount, then I would think an upgrade to the 804S would be nice. If you can swing the funding, going up to the 804Di would be excellent. The diamond tweeter, plus the other refinements, would be quite nice. Definitely more money, but a very good upgrade for stereo listening.


        Hope this helps.

        Comment

        • TonioRoffo
          Junior Member
          • Aug 2010
          • 11

          #5
          OK, I have now an upgrade path from N804's to 804S (demo models at a shop) for just about €1000. Whatever is left of 804S stock seems to get a really big price drop - I can only imagine it's the CM9 that is coming into play at this price point.

          Is this a worthy upgrade? I remember reading a direct comparison between "old" and "new" but I can't find it on the net anymore.

          800 series Diamond are out of my reach, unfortunately - for me the ROI isn't worth it anymore.

          Comment

          • gerardhn
            Senior Member
            • Jun 2005
            • 352

            #6
            Tonio,

            with this hobby nobody speaks of a ROI.
            but: how much do want to spend, how much can you spend on a speaker.
            we should find ROI projects (= for most people just working) to create the cash !

            Comment

            • dknightd
              Senior Member
              • Mar 2006
              • 621

              #7
              This is impossible to answer. Some prefer the 805s, some the n804, some the 804s.
              Personally I would miss the the FST driver if I went to the 805s (I prefered 703 to
              805, but I'm sure not all would agree).

              1000 seems like alot for the upgrade from n804 to 804s (but it might be worth it to you, in both sound and undamaged veneer) You really have to decide that yourself. I assume you can listen to both.

              Another thought, how much do they want to buy the 804s outright? Perhaps you could use the n804 as rears, and the n805 elsewhere in the house (if nothing else they'd make nice computer speakres Or maybe trade the n805 for the 804s?

              In regards to ROI, there are lots of ways to go. My opinion is to get the best you can possible afford, then keep it for a long time. Better ROI than swapping equipment in and out (unless you are lucky or clever)

              1000 would buy alot of CD's and room treatments. That is another option. . .


              Sorry, probably not much help. If I had 1000 for a system upgrade I'd probably keep it in the bank (or buy CDs, or room treatments if you do not have them) and save, and wait, some more, until I could afford something that I really thought was an upgrade - maybe a nice used pair of 803D (though what I really want is 802d)

              Comment

              • TonioRoffo
                Junior Member
                • Aug 2010
                • 11

                #8
                Well I bit the bullet. Went to a dealer and listened again to 804S and while moving around in the room I remembered & heard again how they are even less boxy than the N804, putting up a vast soundstage, and most important, a large 'sweet spot' - you can really move around a little with these speakers and they still image nicely.

                Then for kicks, I switched to 804D's. Maybe it was the electronics, but I don't like them as I heard them there... they are a bit more revealing yeah, but not $3000 more revealing, and worst of all, it seems like the sound character changed - it's not N804/804S sounding anymore, the sound is not for me... 803D (wow they are big...) and 802D's where there as well, but I didn't listen to them. Probably for the best.

                So yeah, by friday

                Comment

                • htsteve
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Sep 2004
                  • 1216

                  #9
                  TonioRoffo,

                  An excellent choice. Let us know how they sound in your room.

                  Comment

                  • dknightd
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2006
                    • 621

                    #10
                    :t

                    Comment

                    • TonioRoffo
                      Junior Member
                      • Aug 2010
                      • 11

                      #11
                      Well I have the 804S pair since friday morning.

                      I never noticed this, but while unpacking I saw the veneer is a lot better than it was on the nautilus range. Lots of other small differences I never noticed between N804 and 804S. The bass reflex port is now rubbery instead of plastic - and this rubber is extending around the woofers. The tweeter enclosure, which of course is the biggest difference, has a metal "pipe" extending to the back, where it also was plastic in the old version. Only 6 points are used to keep the dust cover in place, but it's a stronger fit than before.

                      As for sound - perfectly in line with what I heard at the shop. Even more pleasing to the ear than the N804's, huge sound stage and very forgiving in placement - except for one thing, bass.

                      Yeah, believe it or not, although bass is better controlled and more prominent than before, I have "boomy" bass when I get away from the sweetspot and get seated elsewhere in the house. I must have some serious room mode issues. I do have audyssey in my reciever, but never use it for stereo, as it kills all what makes this speaker high-end. I know it's partly my fault, I don't have the possibility to put the speaker 50cm from the wall as stated in the manual, it's more around 40.

                      I'm now experimenting with plugging the reflex port on two (or even one) speaker. I do realise I lose ultimate extension this way but it might tame the bass just enough to be happy. (Yes, too much bass on 804, you read it right - as I stated before, if they don't create bass for you, you're on the wrong amplifier)

                      When most music is simply more "pleasing" and relax to listen to, there is a lot more resolution in this pair - I don't mean more in-your-face highs or something - but when listening to a track like "the battle" on the Gladiator OST, even in the most instrument-heavy and loud passages, the instruments never "mud" eachother, all instruments remain clear, I can hear through "the wall of sound".

                      So all in all I'm very pleased with my upgrade. Still the "b&w nautilus sound" I came to love - just better. With all respect to the resolution the 804D can put out, and sounding even more loose from the enclosers, the character of them has changed too much for me to enjoy. I might still have a listen to them on my own amplifier some day, along with the rest of the 800D lineup, for fun - best that I pick a day on which I don't have a dime to spare...

                      Comment

                      • dknightd
                        Senior Member
                        • Mar 2006
                        • 621

                        #12
                        While experimenting with plugging the port, keep in mind you do not have to completely plug the port. On a previous pair of speakers, I found the best solution was to partially block each port on both speakers. I just used a piece of foam that filled about half the port. Something to try

                        Comment

                        • TonioRoffo
                          Junior Member
                          • Aug 2010
                          • 11

                          #13
                          thx for that info, I'll surely try that!

                          Comment

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