Upgrading from N804--need suggestions

[akhter]

First the good news...

I bought my N804 new 8 years ago. Got a good deal on the last brand new pair at the dealer right when 804S was launched.

Looks like the 2nd value of the speakers are shockingly high--I can expect to get 80% of what I paid for them 8 years ago!

Then came the shock..after seeing the price of the 804 Diamond. Now I know why the 2nd hand value is so good lol.

I had probably foolishly thought that if I spend 3.5k USD 8 years later, I should get speakers that are significantly better thanks to new technology. Unfortunately for 3.5k the best I can do is CM series. They do look nice, but I can't see them as being an upgrade for the N804 which continue to sound better and better all the time.

The 804 Diamond is frankly double of what I was hoping to spend but I can probably swing it--but is it really that much better than the N804?

Keep in mind, I am not going to sell the N804--it will move to my 2nd home and this was going to be an excuse for me to upgrade my main system.

I will initially be using my Linn Majik DSM to drive the new speakers and maybe add a power amp later as needed.

Can anyone articulate the changes since N804 on the new 804 Diamond other than obviously the diamond tweeters?

[kobestonecold]

Absolutely that the 804 diamond much better than that old N804 :T

[stuofsci02]

Yes,

Even the 804s is a big upgrade over the N804.. The 804Di is a big upgrade over the 804s.. But only you can decide if it is worth it.. Audition time!

[baranowski]

Go and listen... like they all stated. Some do not even like the diamond tweeter in the newer speakers and from my point of view... you would be hard pressed to get me to spend that much more for the diamond.... what about?????? upgrading your amp or processor instead, depending on what you are using now, that would be a better upgrade and cheaper. also if you are using these for home theater maybe a better center channel, depending on what you have.

If I were you I would keep those speakers right where they are and dont worry about upgrading them. DOWN WITH INFLATED COSTS FROM DEALERS! is what I say...

also what about a better sub?

[akhter]

My amp is a Linn Majik DSM.

Just upgraded it a month ago and it is fantastic and very happy with it. It made my N804 sound better than it ever did.

I had a great sub, Velodyne DD12 but sold it due to space constraints and to simplify the setup as I have a small baby now...

I am looking for a new pair of floor standers because I won't get a sub and the N804 will move to a 2nd system as I love the speaker too much to sell it.

[stevek]

hey,sounds like a great problem to have,keep in mind although the tweeter is not suspended like the 800 series the cm 9 series uses the nautilaus tweeter and fst driver ,although it does not use the rochelle woofers, if you have a large area and some really nice components driving them they can sound quite good.since i bought mine i have spent a lot of time and money upgrading everything driving them and they sure are sweet.they take a lot of heat from some circles but when properly set up they are quite a bargain.if i had the money would i buy the diamonds,you betcha.the dealer i bought these from has a pair of 804di's set up in his show room that is very basic.i have the cm9's sounding way better than what he has done.although im not idiot and realize if i were to bring those 804's home it would be no contest.he just isnt doing those babies any favors.anyway the 9's are at least worth a listen.good luck

[akhter]

Has anyone compared the CM9 with N804? I like the CM series when I heard them 2 years ago but I think the N804 was still better to my ears in terms of mids/highs.

[leo2498]

hey,sounds like a great problem to have,keep in mind although the tweeter is not suspended like the 800 series the cm 9 series uses the nautilaus tweeter and fst driver ,although it does not use the rochelle woofers, if you have a large area and some really nice components driving them they can sound quite good.since i bought mine i have spent a lot of time and money upgrading everything driving them and they sure are sweet.they take a lot of heat from some circles but when properly set up they are quite a bargain.if i had the money would i buy the diamonds,you betcha.the dealer i bought these from has a pair of 804di's set up in his show room that is very basic.i have the cm9's sounding way better than what he has done.although im not idiot and realize if i were to bring those 804's home it would be no contest.he just isnt doing those babies any favors.anyway the 9's are at least worth a listen.good luck

I don't agree with you, I have both of them (804D and 804S) in different setup and I tried the 804S with expensive electronic(4500 Euros integrate amp) and never sound better that my rotel-denon gear with the 804D, if you are a specialist audiophile maybe you will get a decent performance with better gear but IMHO better speaker are giving better audio instead of expensive gear and low end speaker. with 804D and good gear is the audio nirvana but without the gear it is very good too.



Leo,
Saludos
My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Rotel RB1582 Main amp, pre Denon AVR 3310, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" ue55d8000
Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Yamaha AVR 663, Source Marantz CD5004.

[stevek]

well,when you have them set up the way this guy had them set up especially the room you might see where im coming from.im no fool i understand the difference between these two speakers but in this situation its not me just loving my speakers so much that i would make a statement like that.its a fact.my only point in the post was not to compare the di to the cm but the cm to the older n800.similar speakers

[stevek]

the only thing that i noticed with the 804di was the tweeter sounded as im sure you know really good but i dont know he had something screwed up because everything else was just not right.small enclosed room with plain walls it was just a mess.

[leo2498]

the only thing that i noticed with the 804di was the tweeter sounded as im sure you know really good but i dont know he had something screwed up because everything else was just not right.small enclosed room with plain walls it was just a mess.

I understand steve and I don't want a debate about this, my point only is that the 800 series speaker are upgrade in the good way and if I need to change my setup i will put a least 75% of my budget in the best speaker I can afford because This is the firts improve I can feel and the electronic although is important I think that i can upgrade later.

p.d in the diamond the tweeter is not the only improve, the midrage is much better too I'm thinking that the xover have a big responsability here and the bass was better too tight and precise. :T

Leo,
Saludos
My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Rotel RB1582 Main amp, pre Denon AVR 3310, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" ue55d8000
Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Yamaha AVR 663, Source Marantz CD5004.

[stevek]

yes,you are 100% correct.top to botom from the cabinet to all of the drivers not just a suptle upgrade.its huge.i think they have the same fst but the mounting or bracing was done different so it sounds better.at least thats what i read.i was just really trying to say the guy i bought my speakers from was an idiot and that b&w took the technology from the older n series and put it into the more affordable cm series.i only wish i could own a set of the diamonds.this dealer put the 804di's in a roughly 8x10 room with plain gloss paint within a foot of the side and rear walls with 3 other pairs lined up in between and it sounds like crap.not the speaker the set up.the sound was just muddy and kind of all over the place if that makes any sense.nuts.

[Marco Lisi]

Hi Akhter

Love to hear that you have enjoyed the 804 Nautilus for such a long time, nice :T

The CM9 is a beautiful speaker, but no match for the 804Di.
804Di have far more resolution, dynamics and refinement. If you are used to the 800 series standard, this is not the way to go.

How different does the 804Di sound (in comparison with the 804N)?
Highs sound more open, more neutral and carry lots more details, without being analytical. The aluminum tweeter of the 804N could sound a bit harsh, if used with wrong gear / cables.

In the mids the 804Di sound more open, faster, more 'live' like, with lots more speed and accuracy.

The biggest surprise comes with the bass: very tight, dynamic and way more powerful.

In overal the 804Di has more slam, is more engaging and lets you hear much more of your source.

Kind regards

[Antus]

the new 804 Diamond sounds very fast. i think it due to the use of neo-magnet in all drivers.

i direct comparison, the old N804 will sound muddy, and 804 diamond will sound more clear. some people may prefer the old series. N804 are excellent speakers.

as for the price. it's expensive. but think from different perspective. If you check the speaker driver price on madisound.com u will find a single diamond tweeter cost $1000 usd. a neo-magnet mid range driver from well name brand like ScanSpeak cost $400 each. a woofer cost $350 each. if you add all the driver up, B&W's price on 804 Diamond seems like an excellent deal.

[bigburner]

Hi akhter,

Can you buy a pair of second hand 803Ds for $3.5k USD where you live? Lovely speakers.

Nigel.

[Antus]

Hi akhter,

Can you buy a pair of second hand 803Ds for $3.5k USD where you live? Lovely speakers.

Nigel.

3.5K USD for a used 803D is too good to be true anywhere. US has some of the lowest price in the world and even in the US, a used pair will cost much more than that.

[bigburner]

3.5K USD for a used 803D is too good to be true anywhere. US has some of the lowest price in the world and even in the US, a used pair will cost much more than that.

I defer to your superior local knowledge Antus, but it wouldn't stop akhter keeping a beady eye out would it, and besides, if we can spin this thread out long enough by the time it has run its course the price may have dropped.

Nigel.

[Skyblue]

I defer to your superior local knowledge Antus, but it wouldn't stop akhter keeping a beady eye out would it, and besides, if we can spin this thread out long enough by the time it has run its course the price may have dropped.

Nigel.

Always be on the lookout. But a quick search on audiogon yesterday said that the old 803N was $3000-$3500 used. So, it may be some time before the D version drops that much..

[akhter]

So after a visit to the local dealer, I think I am going with the 802D2. my upgrade budget was initially 14k for speaker and amp and now its 25k for speaker and amp and a new pre!

I spent about 10k on my current system 8 years ago so spending 2.5 that for the next 8-10 years is acceptable to me.

[leo2498]

So after a visit to the local dealer, I think I am going with the 802D2. my upgrade budget was initially 14k for speaker and amp and now its 25k for speaker and amp and a new pre!

I spent about 10k on my current system 8 years ago so spending 2.5 that for the next 8-10 years is acceptable to me.

8O it is a 180 grades change and in the good way, the 802 is the dream speaker for many people(included myself) and if you will choice the classe for the electronic it will be a rock system, congrats and let me know if you get the cp800 how is it for you, I'm looking it too a pack of this with the ca2300 for my 804D.

[akhter]

I was initially planning 804D with classe M2300 and CP800 as the B&W showroom had a compelling package for the 3 things.

Now the plan is Linn Akurate DSM (Digital streamer with very high end HDMI and analog Pre) with Mcintosh MC302 amp and 802D

I decided to go with my dream combo of Linn source, Mcintosh amp with B&W speakers

[leo2498]

I was initially planning 804D with classe M2300 and CP800 as the B&W showroom had a compelling package for the 3 things.

Now the plan is Linn Akurate DSM (Digital streamer with very high end HDMI and analog Pre) with Mcintosh MC302 amp and 802D

I decided to go with my dream combo of Linn source, Mcintosh amp with B&W speakers

Well that is a great set up too, personally I'm not a fan the Mac gear but it's sound great.
Congrats and add some pics when you have it. :T

[PewterTA]

Nice akhter!!! When are you getting all this!?!? I bet you can't wait!

[bigburner]

akhter, if you prepared to jump from CM series to 802D2 in the space of half a dozen posts then you are clearly upwardly mobile and therefore fully deserving of a pair of Sphäron Excalibur speakers from Acapella Audio Arts for the very reasonable price of $380,700. Imagine the kudos on this forum! :W

Nigel.

[akhter]

Lol...

I have always wanted to 802 speakers back when I bought my N804.

The Linn Akurate DSM has been ordered but I can't take delivery until I make space for an amp. New rack has been ordered and due in about 5 weeks, so I have about 5 weeks to decide on the amp which right now looks like a MC302, but I may just spring for the CA2300 which would cost me about 10% more and match the Linn visually (black and silver). The Mcintosh is 2.5k cheaper and has those lovely blue meters but will not match anything else .

I hope to get the speakers this week. Wife (who loves listening to music) has been convinced over the weekend which was the tricky bit. Basically I told her that we have be been using a 10k stereo the last 8 years (bought when I was single), and i want to spend 25k for one for the next 8-10 years. Her response was, if these speaker are going to last till we are well into our forties, then go for it

My plan is to use my current Linn Majik DSM integrated (60wpc in 8 ohms) with the 802D2 for month until the rack arrives. Then I will and the amp and the Akurate DSM. I know the Majik DSM is way underpowered, but it will not clip (it will shutdown before clipping) and it gives me a chance to start breaking in the speakers early rather than wait 5 weeks.

[Skyblue]

akhter, if you prepared to jump from CM series to 802D2 in the space of half a dozen posts then you are clearly upwardly mobile and therefore fully deserving of a pair of Sphäron Excalibur speakers from Acapella Audio Arts for the very reasonable price of $380,700. Imagine the kudos on this forum! :W

Nigel.

I really like the sub in the middle!

[Antus]

i am not a fan for MacIntosh gear. they sounds slow and muddy comparing with Classe.

a good thing with B&W speakers and Classe gear are that u will get a big portion of ur money back 10 years from now when you sell them. They are hot items on 2nd hand market and hold their value extremely well.

[akhter]

here they are