If you were B&W how would you release the 800 series diamond

[Briz vegas]

Lets face it, the 800 series aren't for the masses. You are either cashed up or you are a bit of an audiophile. How would you approach the marketing of the new product?

I find it interesting that a club B&W member seems to be one of the lucky guys to get a pair (probably has them at home right now setting them up, although I have not calculated what time it is in the US). If I was B&W in 2010 I think I would make sure that word of mouth on the internet got out there before the glossy brochures.

Apart from giving every club B&W member a free pair how would you go about introducing the high end model?

[theblue]

I don't see much value in mainstream advertising, those who care will already know... but I would try to inform as many current owners by offering a discount to trade up?

[RobP]

Apart from giving every club B&W member a free pair how would you go about introducing the high end model?

Well....there goes my idea..

[DM3000 Owner]

Put a shill on every high end speaker forum

[Dmantis]

I would require all my dealers to have a VIP invite. Have all models on display properly setup and calibrated for all duties. Maybe make a list of Dealers who will specialize in 2 channel or Theater applications . This way you have a few places to go hear them and get the experience you may use them in.

This is something all dealer try to do with everything they sell but with engineering help from my team(Speaking as If I owned B&W) to set up and get the most out of our speakers. I would make quality time for every single owner and have a in home visit.

Honestly I could write a full market plan and pride of ownership mission statement with this. I feel this line of speakers desires such an approach as well as every single B&W owner. This would also trickle down the lines. I would show family values of owning my line. Showing all my customers "we are here for you now and forever".

[SRT-10 Viper]

I would have ensured I had a HTM1D... Then I would replace my 800Ds and my HTM1D not to mention maybe my rears. But since I have the HTM1D I won't be upgrading.

[wettou]

I don't see much value in mainstream advertising, those who care will already know... but I would try to inform as many current owners by offering a discount to trade up?

That sounds like a great idea, I might even consider the upgrade!

[theblue]

with all the trade in speakers B&W could have a CPO (certified pre owned) program for the old stock at hand.

[aarsoe]

I would contact Swarovski and have them make a total bling version that could emphasize the diamond theme - and in the process make a speaker all rappers would die for.. :-)

[Skyblue]

I would contact Swarovski and have them make a total bling version that could emphasize the diamond theme - and in the process make a speaker all rappers would die for.. :-)

Isnt that the what the piano black is? for?

[KyaDawn]

To answer the OP's question, and this may be precisely why I'm not in marketing, but I would offer public "Pepsi Challenges" of the 800 series against all contenders. I'm talking Magico, Wilson, Marten, Focal, MBL, KEF, Avalon, Rockport, YG Acoustics, etc., etc. I would pit the 805Di against any standmount or even 2-way speaker, the 802Di against most floorstanders, and the 800Di against all the "big boys", including even the Nautilus.

These would be double-blind tests, and I would let the public be the judge of which are the "better" speakers.

Risky, for sure, but ballsy as well and if the 800 Diamond Series is as good as we hope, then it should beat most of these speakers easily.

I'd also let people know after the test how much the other speakers cost in comparison to the 800 Diamond Series. $20K+ is significantly less than $100K+, and if the 800Di holds up well or even betters the Alexandria X-2 S2s, etc., then people know what a "bargain" this series is.

The 802D should dominate against similar size speakers as well. I doubt any of the Revels can touch it.

And by willing to set-up these "taste tests", the exposure and buzz of the new series should be incredible.

[AV-OCD]

Kya -

Unforunately, we here in this forum live in a bubble where multi-thousand dollar speakers seem "reasonable". In the real world, most people would crap themselves when told that the speakers they just listened to cost between $5K and $20K. The average price paid for a pair of floorstanders in the US is roughly $2K.

The other problem is, I hate Pepsi.

[emig5m]

I know people with money that would think we're nuts.....

Kya -

Unforunately, we here in this forum live in a bubble where multi-thousand dollar speakers seem "reasonable". In the real world, most people would crap themselves when told that the speakers they just listened to cost between $5K and $20K. The average price paid for a pair of floorstanders in the US is roughly $2K.

The other problem is, I hate Pepsi.

I demoed my 600 series system (683/HTM61/685 and Velodyne MiniVee) for my boss one day. While playing the Transformers BluRay he asked "why does it sound so good?" He was fully impressed by the sound of the system. Months later when I was preparing to upgrade to the 800 series I had offered to sell him my stuff at a reasonable price and he wasn't interested in spending the price of a used set of 600 series even though he was totally impressed by the sound. And just days before he made take home (after all expenses paid) somewhere around $23,000. Yea, one days pay, 23 grand, must be nice, and he wouldn't even pay for my used 600 series system! Too expensive for him! Last time I was at his house he was listening to movies through the TV SPEAKER on his 52" plasma!!! THE TV SPEAKER!! Last I heard he had a Bose system, lol, feel sorry for his ears. :B I make peanuts compared to what everyone else seems to make and I have to make big sacrifices and do precision budgeting when I want to own something nice! Hell, some of the money for my speakers was from saving change in a 5 gallon water jug for seven years! SEVEN YEARS!

I worked for a man that was a multi-millionaire and owned million dollar homes in multiple states and what does he have for a sound system? Yamaha bookshelf speakers! lol. :E

BTW, I hate Pepsi too. In fact, ALL Pepsi products period. Too candy-like and acidy for me. I like Coke products (much more cleaner and less acidy tasting)

[AV-OCD]

I demoed my 600 series system (683/HTM61/685 and Velodyne MiniVee) for my boss one day. While playing the Transformers BluRay he asked "why does it sound so good?" He was fully impressed by the sound of the system. Months later when I was preparing to upgrade to the 800 series I had offered to sell him my stuff at a reasonable price and he wasn't interested in spending the price of a used set of 600 series even though he was totally impressed by the sound. And just days before he made take home (after all expenses paid) somewhere around $23,000. Yea, one days pay, 23 grand, must be nice, and he wouldn't even pay for my used 600 series system! Too expensive for him! Last time I was at his house he was listening to movies through the TV SPEAKER on his 52" plasma!!! THE TV SPEAKER!! Last I heard he had a Bose system, lol, feel sorry for his ears. :B I make peanuts compared to what everyone else seems to make and I have to make big sacrifices and do precision budgeting when I want to own something nice! Hell, some of the money for my speakers was from saving change in a 5 gallon water jug for seven years! SEVEN YEARS!

I worked for a man that was a multi-millionaire and owned million dollar homes in multiple states and what does he have for a sound system? Yamaha bookshelf speakers! lol. :E

BTW, I hate Pepsi too. In fact, ALL Pepsi products period. Too candy-like and acidy for me. I like Coke products (much more cleaner and less acidy tasting)

Yup, isn't it fascinating how many people put good audio in the back seat? Sure, he'll spend a few grand on a new plasma, but any old cheap crap will do for the audio. I am surprised that he didn't have a change of heart after hearing your demo though.

You're not alone. Even though I went ape-sh*t last year and spent like crazy on my system, I'm a middle-class citizen in terms of income. We have one nice car (which my wife drives) and I drive a 1990 Honda to and from work so that I could build my dream system.

[stuofsci02]

Yup, isn't it fascinating how many people put good audio in the back seat? Sure, he'll spend a few grand on a new plasma, but any old cheap crap will do for the audio. I am surprised that he didn't have a change of heart after hearing your demo though.

You're not alone. Even though I went ape-sh*t last year and spent like crazy on my system, I'm a middle-class citizen in terms of income. We have one nice car (which my wife drives) and I drive a 1990 Honda to and from work so that I could build my dream system.

Yeah.. This is one of the wierdest things.. I know countless people who have spent thousands on the TV and then used the TV speakers. As far as I am concerned speakers should not even be a part of the TV.

When I bought my first house about 6 years ago, I had a 19" tube TV. For me the sound of a movie is at least as important as the picture. I bought my first set of B&W speakers before I upgraded the TV.. So I would get blown away by the sound of the movie even though I could hardly see a thing.

I think the reason why people have such garbage sound systems is they buy a TV for $2500 and then at the same store they can get a HT in a box for $500 that includes the DVD player, reciever, speakers and sub and they think that is what a good HT setup is and give it no further thought.

I once had some friends over who have a HT in a box to watch a movie.. I only turned on my rear speakers and my center channel (HTM61 which is a crappy center). After the movie they commented on how good the sound was.. Unbelievable!!!

[DM3000 Owner]

Yeah.. This is one of the wierdest things.. I know countless people who have spent thousands on the TV and then used the TV speakers. As far as I am concerned speakers should not even be a part of the TV.

There are a lot of people who have $50,000 and $100,000 2 channel stereos and use TV speakers for movies and TV.

[stuofsci02]

There are a lot of people who have $50,000 and $100,000 2 channel stereos and use TV speakers for movies and TV.

I dunno about that...

[KyaDawn]

Kya -

Unforunately, we here in this forum live in a bubble where multi-thousand dollar speakers seem "reasonable". In the real world, most people would crap themselves when told that the speakers they just listened to cost between $5K and $20K. The average price paid for a pair of floorstanders in the US is roughly $2K.

The other problem is, I hate Pepsi.

True, but this isn't about marketing to people would would "crap themselves when told that the speakers they just listened to cost between $5K and $20K". This is about marketing to people that are interested AND can afford the new 800 series, and convincing them to buy B&W and not another speaker.

I hate Pepsi too. :B That's just another way to say "blind test" (yes, shows my age). Wasn't going to make you down a shot of Pepsi while you're listening to 800Di's. Now a nice red, that may be another thing...

[wettou]

Yup, isn't it fascinating how many people put good audio in the back seat? Sure, he'll spend a few grand on a new plasma, but any old cheap crap will do for the audio. I am surprised that he didn't have a change of heart after hearing your demo though.

You're not alone. Even though I went ape-sh*t last year and spent like crazy on my system, I'm a middle-class citizen in terms of income. We have one nice car (which my wife drives) and I drive a 1990 Honda to and from work so that I could build my dream system.

I could care less about cars, I run them to the ground and never spend too much money as they are just a tool, on the other hand my sound system has to be pristine :B

[AV-OCD]

True, but this isn't about marketing to people would would "crap themselves when told that the speakers they just listened to cost between $5K and $20K". This is about marketing to people that are interested AND can afford the new 800 series, and convincing them to buy B&W and not another speaker.

I hate Pepsi too. :B That's just another way to say "blind test" (yes, shows my age). Wasn't going to make you down a shot of Pepsi while you're listening to 800Di's. Now a nice red, that may be another thing...

Kya -

I understand your idea. I was being cheeky.

Unfortunately, it would be difficult to get meaningful results from your proposal because the best sounding speaker in the world is only as good as the recording it is being fed, and what the consumer expects to hear may have nothing to do with what the original recording is supposed to sound like, and we will never know how the recording was supposed to sound unless we were present during the recording. It's a vicious circle because their are no standards for musical recordings.

Lets say you have a theoretically perfect speaker that has ruler flat frequency response from 10Hz on up to 100KHz (there are other performance parameters, I'm jut keeping it simple). If you take a recording that was created in a studio that uses monitors that are tipped up in the treble (a distinct possibility because there are no standards) and you play this back through the theoretically perfect speaker, the sound will be dull and lacking treble detail. So unless the frequency response of your speakers matches the studio monitors, you're not hearing what the artist intended.

It's like selling Coke that must be served in a specific type of glass in order for it to taste the way the company intended it to. Drink it from any other glass and it may taste like Pepsi, or generic cola.

So in your proposed test, the favored speaker will change depending on how the balance of the recording lines up with the balance of the speaker. B&W could chose recordings that sound best on their speakers for the test, but then Magico, or who ever, could turn around run their own test choosing a different set of recordings that sound best on their speakers, and so on.

More on the subject here:

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/10/audios-circle-of-confusion.html

I guess the real test would be something more akin to "Is it live or is it Memorex?" Have a musical performer play a piece live, and then have a recording of the same performance played back through all of the speakers in the test. The one closest to reality wins.

[KyaDawn]

Kya -

I understand your idea. I was being cheeky.

Unfortunately, it would be difficult to get meaningful results from your proposal because the best sounding speaker in the world is only as good as the recording it is being fed, and what the consumer expects to hear may have nothing to do with what the original recording is supposed to sound like, and we will never know how the recording was supposed to sound unless we were present during the recording. It's a vicious circle because their are no standards for musical recordings.

Lets say you have a theoretically perfect speaker that has ruler flat frequency response from 10Hz on up to 100KHz (there are other performance parameters, I'm jut keeping it simple). If you take a recording that was created in a studio that uses monitors that are tipped up in the treble (a distinct possibility because there are no standards) and you play this back through the theoretically perfect speaker, the sound will be dull and lacking treble detail. So unless the frequency response of your speakers matches the studio monitors, you're not hearing what the artist intended.

It's like selling Coke that must be served in a specific type of glass in order for it to taste the way the company intended it to. Drink it from any other glass and it may taste like Pepsi, or generic cola.

So in your proposed test, the favored speaker will change depending on how the balance of the recording lines up with the balance of the speaker. B&W could chose recordings that sound best on their speakers for the test, but then Magico, or who ever, could turn around run their own test choosing a different set of recordings that sound best on their speakers, and so on.

More on the subject here:

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/10/audios-circle-of-confusion.html

I guess the real test would be something more akin to "Is it live or is it Memorex?" Have a musical performer play a piece live, and then have a recording of the same performance played back through all of the speakers in the test. The one closest to reality wins.

Truthfully, I think there are a lot more problems with my idea than you mentioned! :B

You're absolutely right that everything is so subjective and much of it depends on the recording. However, the OP asked how "we" would market the new 800 Diamond series, so in a way assuming that "we" = B&W.

In that case, since this marketing exercise is strictly for B&W and run by B&W, I would obviously stack the recordings and any other issues in B&W's favor. Is it cheating? It's certainly not "fair", but that's the nature of marketing. Going back to the original "Pepsi Challenge", there has literally been books written about how those tests were "rigged" or at least designed to favor Pepsi.

The fact is, if we were to approach speakers as only one of a chain of components in a set-up, there really could be no "fair" test amongst all these speakers. Use one amp that sounds better with B&W, but not with Magico and bang, there's an issue right there. Perhaps you could try to "match" the best amp for each speaker, but that's another can of worms.

To get back to your point about Magico choosing recordings that favor them, I'm sorry, but this is a B&W marketing exercise so Magico doesn't get a say! :B

However, the real weakness of this idea is there is no guarantee B&W would even come out on top with such a challenge! Even if you stack the conditions to B&W's favor, there is "no accounting for taste" and what you really have is an exercise that let's people find the best speaker for them, but not one that's going to be guaranteed to make B&W look good. We're not talking about putting B&W against Bose here. All the other companies I mentioned produce top-notch speakers so when factoring that in along with different tastes of different listeners, it would be very difficult for B&W to come out on top the majority of the time.

Personally, I wish B&W would set up such a challenge just so I could listen to all these great speakers in one setting and be able to compare them for myself! What a dream shoot-out it would be, and definitely, I would love to hear how the 800Di does against an Alexandria X-2 S2, 101X, M5, Muon, Grande Utopia EM, Coltrane Supreme, Arrakis, Anat Reference II, and even the Nautilus, all in one go! Honestly, the 800Ds might get slaughtered in some match-ups depending on room size and source material, but it would certainly be a fun test!

[emig5m]

I'll settle for 804S vs 804Di in the same room/setup, lol. :lol:

[aarsoe]

Not sure B&W would be allowed to do a comparison test. I don't know the market share numbers that B&W have, but I would suspect them to be market leading in some areas - and if you are then the rules of the game changes dramatically.
So - if you are small you can act up and say almost anything, but be a market leader and you cannot say anything at all..