B&W 800 Diamond owners

[wettou]

It would be great to hear from owners of the new reference level B&W 800 Diamond owners.

Impression, pictures, amplification and so on......

Also how much amplification is needed to drive these beasts

[Canuck525]

I have the latest B&W 800 Diamonds. I am driving them with a pair of Bryston 7b sst2 mono blocks and Bryston bp26 preamp.Right now I am shopping around for a new digital source( Weiss dac2 is very impressive).
Initially I was driving the speakers with a bryston 4b sst amp. The sound was very good but since switching to the Bryston 7b sst2 and with more time on the speakers they simply sound spectacular.It took about 400 hours to break the crossovers in.The bass is significantly tighter with the 7b sst2 and the top end and midrange is more liquid.I find the sound is simply breathtaking( with top notch recordings). They aren't as forgiving of poor recordings as the "D" series but they are much more revealing and yet more forgiving of poor recordings than other highly revealing speakers I have heard.. These speakers are simply much much better than the "D" series ( IMO). They are very well balanced top to bottom.They are not gimmicky like some speakers.It is hard to put my finger on any one aspect of these speakers as nothing really stands out.They just sound right if that makes any sense. When you hear a pair of these properly set up I believe you will know exactly what I am talking about.
When I decide on a digital source and break it in I will report back regarding sound and will provide pics.....

[emig5m]

Anyone else find it odd that when they first came out that everyone was saying that they where basically the same as the old diamonds and I remember people even saying that their dealers also said that there wasn't that much of a difference. Now the last month or so it's done a complete 180 and all of a sudden the new diamonds are much better and finally there's comments about them being better/different....hmmm. I haven't heard them yet myself to comment, but have noticed the impressions of them on here have done a complete 180 since release.

[wettou]

Anyone else find it odd that when they first came out that everyone was saying that they where basically the same as the old diamonds and I remember people even saying that their dealers also said that there wasn't that much of a difference. Now the last month or so it's done a complete 180 and all of a sudden the new diamonds are much better and finally there's comments about them being better/different....hmmm. I haven't heard them yet myself to comment, but have noticed the impressions of them on here have done a complete 180 since release.

Before I think no one had heard them and had experience with them now they have been available for almost a year and are in the field. I heard a Demo and was blown away :B

[Freddie40]

I have the latest B&W 800 Diamonds. I am driving them with a pair of Bryston 7b sst2 mono blocks and Bryston bp26 preamp.Right now I am shopping around for a new digital source( Weiss dac2 is very impressive).
Initially I was driving the speakers with a bryston 4b sst amp. The sound was very good but since switching to the Bryston 7b sst2 and with more time on the speakers they simply sound spectacular.It took about 400 hours to break the crossovers in.The bass is significantly tighter with the 7b sst2 and the top end and midrange is more liquid.I find the sound is simply breathtaking( with top notch recordings). They aren't as forgiving of poor recordings as the "D" series but they are much more revealing and yet more forgiving of poor recordings than other highly revealing speakers I have heard.. These speakers are simply much much better than the "D" series ( IMO). They are very well balanced top to bottom.They are not gimmicky like some speakers.It is hard to put my finger on any one aspect of these speakers as nothing really stands out.They just sound right if that makes any sense. When you hear a pair of these properly set up I believe you will know exactly what I am talking about.
When I decide on a digital source and break it in I will report back regarding sound and will provide pics.....

I have 802Di's with Bryston 4BSST2 and a BP26. Using a Ayre QB9 as my source I find everything that Canuck525 says to be true. I have heard a few systems that I like better, but for the money nothing even comes close. I will say that for the money nothing comes close to the 802DI until you get to about $43900 (The only speaker I was really blown away with at the Rocky mountain Audio Fest was the Estelon Speakers for $43,900 per pair.)

I was at a house last weekend and heard the best stereo (Red Rocks Pre-Amp, Power Amps and Speakers). I am guessing that with room treatment, cables ect the system was more than 200k. Mine comes in at 40K.

Dave

[Canuck525]

Anyone else find it odd that when they first came out that everyone was saying that they where basically the same as the old diamonds and I remember people even saying that their dealers also said that there wasn't that much of a difference. Now the last month or so it's done a complete 180 and all of a sudden the new diamonds are much better and finally there's comments about them being better/different....hmmm. I haven't heard them yet myself to comment, but have noticed the impressions of them on here have done a complete 180 since release.

I remember seeing comments like that as well. I upgraded my 802D expecting a small change because of previous comments. I was totally unprepared for what I heard.

[wettou]

Focal Utopia III at $180 were impressive, but when it come downs to it the 800Diamonds are the best for a normal size room.

[Kal Rubinson]

Can anyone quickly provide the dimensions of the 800 Diamond base plinth? I am not at home where I could just measure it but I need to know this ASAP. Thanks.

Kal

[hardy]

Width: 450mm (17.7 in)
Depth: 645mm (25.4 in)

[Kal Rubinson]

Thanks.

[SPACEMANRICK]

Can anyone quickly provide the dimensions of the 800 Diamond base plinth? I am not at home where I could just measure it but I need to know this ASAP. Thanks.

Kal

Hmm, does than mean Kal there is a review coming up of the 800DI in Stereophile????.... I actually just subscribed last week :T

[Kal Rubinson]

Hmm, does than mean Kal there is a review coming up of the 800DI in Stereophile????.... I actually just subscribed last week :T

Yup. Welcome aboard.

[Jonzie]

I own a pair of the 800 Diamond. Having also owned the 802D, I can definitely say that there is a tangible gap between the two generations. I loved my 802Ds, so this is not a quest to diminish the quality of the last generation. They are just as good as they ever were, but are a different type of speaker.

In general, I would call the new Diamond Series more brutally honest (transparent, fast, capable) but the old "D" series more forgiving, warm, cosy and still one of the best jack-of-all-trades in the industry. So while I would prefer the new Series Diamond, I sometimes found the old generation more enjoyable to listen to, simply based on the fact that it was "less perfect" and softer than the new.

When listening to the new Series Diamond, the gap between the generations of 800 "D" series (not counting the 800 series "S" speakers) (in my opinion) comes from the perceived level of resolution and neutrality of the speakers overall timbre. IMO, the treble and bass are what has changed mostly, which obviously affects the perceived nature of the midrange.

The treble was the most immediate change, when I first heard the new Series Diamond (805/804). I still owned the 802Ds at that point, and what struck me was the speed of the thing. This gave a sensation of an energetic, yet effortless (as in, "not becoming stressed") clarity, which gave an increased definition to the audio output. Meanwhile, it worked in synergy with the other frequency bands, not the vice versa. The result was, that it added believability to acoustic instruments, and made everything in the soundscape more defined in the space it created, compared to the old generation.

I placed a 803D next to a 804 Diamond, and it only took 1 minute to decide that I would prefer the 804 Diamond's clarity and transparency to the bigger 803D's sense of physique.

This brings me to the area of bass performance of the new Series Diamond (the 800 Diamond included). In certain situations, the bass of the new generation can seem to be less "full" or have less "body" than the old generation. This sensation was (of course) overly obvious when comparing the 804 Diamond with the 803D, given that the latter is simply a bigger speaker. But what also showed was that, while the fullness of the 804D was missing in comparison, it seemed to have a faster and more powerful punch and "slam-dynamics potential" than its older big brother, all things considered. The 803D seemed bigger and stronger, but less intelligent, which also spawned to analogy of a boxer with huge muscle power, but a comparably too vague technique to fully explore the potential. Placed in this analogy, the 804 Diamond would be the arguably less powerful boxer, but capable of using hips, shoulders and swing convincingly more accurate, one could say, "coupled with an innate knowledge about where the kidney is placed", thus making the punches fewer, but matter more.

The 803D took up more deep frequency "space", but was surprisingly less accurate and therefore gave the impression of creating noise around the actual bass information, thus clouding the presentation. Therefore, despite its obvious (and they were) physical limitations of the 804Dia, this would be my choice.

But given the less "full" but more accurate bass, you need a good portion of power to make the new Series Diamond move for real-real and get that "fullness" into the sound. With a low power amp, they play very nicely and are still very clean, but if you want to explore the full potential of the agility of the bass, you need power. My experience with the last generation "D", they had a fair amount of bass with less than optimal power, but the more power you gave them, the more punch and the more accuracy you got. With the new generation, you get a fair amount of accuracy with less power, but lack the weight of the bass until you get a good portion of power.

And obviously, the 805/804 need even more power than the bigger models to play big, powerful bass.

The 800 Diamond pretty much has it all, in my book, except two things: 1) the ability to make unexciting music exiting and 2) subwoofer-deep bass (if you want clear and powerful 16Hz sinusoids, buy a B&W DB1 to complement - a very good subwoofer, I might add, though it has to be said that my experience with high-end subwoofers is limited). It is, however, a very, very dynamic speaker and I love that it is capable of the sheer power that it has. Believe me, it is very possible to become a bit frightened sitting in front of this speaker, turning up the volume and letting the airwaves hit you. I have quite a few times simply jumped up from the sofa, reaching for the remote, because of the sheer "SLAM" (thunder- and lightning-level sounding stuff), which I was *not* prepared for, and would NEVER get out of my 802Ds. And all along, it seems almost impossible to stress the speaker. If you have enough power and turn up the volume, the speaker simply plays louder and louder, without (in my ears) distortion.

The "jumping out of the sofa" experience also comes from the fact that well-recorded audio just has a realism to it that is very enjoyable. The crispness, speed and resolution of the speaker exceeds the old "D" range by miles, creating a different way of relating to the music. In the last generation, it was just very smooth and enjoyable. There were lots of details and an intimate and "hugging" soundstage, but it was never "in your face" unless you turned the volume up to a point where you could not be indifferent. The new Series Diamond has a way of creating much more "texture" to the sound, as if you could almost grab the sound waves and run your fingers across it, feeling the bumps and holes for instant recognition.

That is simply brilliant and I have not heard any other B&W range do that before.

The downside to it all and to the 800 Diamond is, that the qualities that I bring out in this amateur review, are all monitor characteristics. If you play a record that is poorly recorded, you will definitely notice. Even worse; if you play a recording that is well recorded, but badly produced, you will press "stop" on your remote. This, coupled with the fact that the 800 Diamond is so hard to stress, can make certain recordings plain dull and uninteresting, because of the fact that the music itself is created for bass-boosting and distorting speakers that hide the imperfections and lack of talent. In those situations, I've almost felt like the 800 Diamonds have been standing there, laughing at me, saying "hey dude, we didn't ask you to do this, we just play *exactly* what you give us, and this (dull shit) is it. - Don't kill the messenger and get to grips with the lack of talent you wanted to listen to".

So… The 800 Diamonds are not for everyone and just as the smaller speakers in the range, they demand huge quantities of power, signal processing, conversion, cabling, etc. to be at their best, as you genuinely get what you give them.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5408/img2404ns.jpg

[wettou]

I own a pair of the 800 Diamond. Having also owned the 802D, I can definitely say that there is a tangible gap between the two generations. I loved my 802Ds, so this is not a quest to diminish the quality of the last generation. They are just as good as they ever were, but are a different type of speaker.....

So… The 800 Diamonds are not for everyone and just as the smaller speakers in the range, they demand huge quantities of power, signal processing, conversion, cabling, etc. to be at their best, as you genuinely get what you give them.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5408/img2404ns.jpg

I could not agree more 800Diamond are the last speaker I will ever buy until it goes bust hopefully in 20 years or more or unless I become super rich then I will get the MBL

Paired with Classé CA-M600 mono they just give you the best music short of live :lol:

[beden1]

Really excellent review. Thanks for posting your thoughts. I agree with your opinions on both series of B&W diamond speakers. I have both the 803Ds and 804Dis.

I think much also has to do with the room and acoustics. I find that my 803Ds with ample power (350 watts per channel) does tighten the bass and provides very good definition.

Now, after having my 804Ds for nearly a year, I also agree that they are more dynamic and lively than the previous diamond series when also driven by ample power (250 watts per channel).

The other thing that I agree with is that the 803Ds (and that generation) are more pleasant to listen to music during long listening sessions (with excellent electronics), whereas the 804Ds are a bit too analytical for pure enjoyment for the same length of time.

In another post, I said that I prefer the 803Ds for music and the 804Ds for HT. It would appear that your findings would support the same?

[Chucka]

The treble was the most immediate change, when I first heard the new Series Diamond (805/804). I still owned the 802Ds at that point, and what struck me was the speed of the thing. This gave a sensation of an energetic, yet effortless (as in, "not becoming stressed") clarity, which gave an increased definition to the audio output. Meanwhile, it worked in synergy with the other frequency bands, not the vice versa. The result was, that it added believability to acoustic instruments, and made everything in the soundscape more defined in the space it created, compared to the old generation.

I placed a 803D next to a 804 Diamond, and it only took 1 minute to decide that I would prefer the 804 Diamond's clarity and transparency to the bigger 803D's sense of physique.

This brings me to the area of bass performance of the new Series Diamond (the 800 Diamond included). In certain situations, the bass of the new generation can seem to be less "full" or have less "body" than the old generation. This sensation was (of course) overly obvious when comparing the 804 Diamond with the 803D, given that the latter is simply a bigger speaker. But what also showed was that, while the fullness of the 804D was missing in comparison, it seemed to have a faster and more powerful punch and "slam-dynamics potential" than its older big brother, all things considered. The 803D seemed bigger and stronger, but less intelligent, which also spawned to analogy of a boxer with huge muscle power, but a comparably too vague technique to fully explore the potential. Placed in this analogy, the 804 Diamond would be the arguably less powerful boxer, but capable of using hips, shoulders and swing convincingly more accurate, one could say, "coupled with an innate knowledge about where the kidney is placed", thus making the punches fewer, but matter more.

The 803D took up more deep frequency "space", but was surprisingly less accurate and therefore gave the impression of creating noise around the actual bass information, thus clouding the presentation. Therefore, despite its obvious (and they were) physical limitations of the 804Dia, this would be my choice.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5408/img2404ns.jpg

Have you been able to compare the 803D to the 803Di or only against the 804Di? I am curious as to your evaluation of the 803Di vs the 803D?

Chucka

[Mark_NZ]

Jonzie - great review - you have provided more insight into the differences between the D & Di series than the so-called professional reviewers!

Beden - Based on differences I heard between the 802D and 802Di, and 803D and 803Di - I can relate to your comment: "the 803Ds (and that generation) are more pleasant to listen to music during long listening sessions (with excellent electronics), whereas the 804Ds are a bit too analytical for pure enjoyment for the same length of time."

I heard the 802D and 802Di at a dealer at different times, so I cannot provide an in-depth analysis based on short auditions - but in short the 802Di was more precise, transparent, faster with obviously better damped/controlled bass. The 802Di was also more brightly balanced that 802D - and when comparing two very different amplifiers on the 802Di - it was clear that careful system matching will be rewarded.

Chucka - I have compared the 803D to 803Di side by side and over longer auditioning sessions.

The 803Di is faster, more transparent with a bit less hash. It is as if one is using a better camera with a higher resolution and dynamic range - the picture has more detail, particularly in the difficult to handle dark and light areas - which results in pictures with more pop! The 803Di sounds more live than the 803D.
The 803Di sounds about 1 to 2dB louder than the 803D at same volume setting - not sure if this is due to an overall real sensitivity increase or whether this is primarily due to the tweeter which sounds as if it is boosted about 1 to 1.5dB relative to the midrange. This leads to one of the downsides of the 803Di - it does sound consistently slightly tipped up in treble - I believe the 803D sounds more natural in the treble. The other downside is that the 803Di is less forgiving of poorly recorded or digital compressed music - but it is not entirely fair to shoot the messenger. I still find the 803D treble to have the best balance of detail and forgiveness of any loudspeaker.
The midrange is very similar across the generations; both are still a bit recessed. However 803Di midrange is slightly leaner and cleaner – perhaps this is due to the treble differences.
The 803Di and 803D bass both have very similar depth and weight. I don’t find that that 803Di is less full than the 803D – but the 803Di is bit cleaner and a bit more agile. The result overall a bit better timing (pace& rhythm) – e.g. complex jazz with subtle timing cues is simply more interesting.
The combination of improved transparency and timings has an unexpected bonus of making it possible to listen (and hear) music at significantly reduced volume.
While the 803Di is more engaging than the 803D, it demands a more attention than the 803D which can played in the background without calling undue attention.
In summary, 803Di is more transparent and engaging whereas the 803D is more natural and forgiving. The differences are incremental and can be significantly exceeded by choice of electronics.

[beden1]

Mark NZ

Very well stated and right on the mark. I think this is a helpful discussion for those contemplating moving to the new B&W Diamond Series.

[style]

@Mark NZ: I agree,

I agree with beden1. :T


the new diamond from B&W like wrote above:
..more precise, transparent, faster with obviously better damped/controlled bass.... :T :T

style

[RebelMan]

Nice contribution Jonzie, thanks for taking the time. I agree with many of the points you noted between the two series but there are a few that I'm not so sure about without further clarification.

IMO, the treble and bass are what has changed mostly, which obviously affects the perceived nature of the midrange.

True, they do, but in the case of the new series you can credit the new crossovers for most of the gains. Furthermore, the 800 uses considerably better components than the 802 does in its midrange crossover network.

I placed a 803D next to a 804 Diamond, and it only took 1 minute to decide that I would prefer the 804 Diamond's clarity and transparency to the bigger 803D's sense of physique.

I don't believe the 803D were given the proper credit they deserve. In my experience the 803D are the most difficult to position of the 800 series. That's because their height puts them at a severe disadvantage to the rest of the non-Marlan models. In addition, the dispersive characteristics of the cabinet mounted FST driver does not bode well for them especially for their height. To ring out the best in them I have found it necessary to spike them with a 5-10 degree downward tilt and 10-15 degree toe-in to mitigate the potential chesty mid-range. Can you explain in more detail the setup you used to overcome the inherent issues of the 803D?

But given the less "full" but more accurate bass, you need a good portion of power to make the new Series Diamond move for real-real and get that "fullness" into the sound. With a low power amp, they play very nicely and are still very clean, but if you want to explore the full potential of the agility of the bass, you need power. My experience with the last generation "D", they had a fair amount of bass with less than optimal power, but the more power you gave them, the more punch and the more accuracy you got. With the new generation, you get a fair amount of accuracy with less power, but lack the weight of the bass until you get a good portion of power.

Since their inception 13 years ago it has been pretty well known that the 800 series generally sound their best when played loudly. But they do not necessarily need a lot of power to get there. It largely depends on the quality of the power fed to them and how loud the listener likes to hear them (certain source material too). What did you use for amplification in your evaluation and how loud did you listen to them? How did you determine, quantitatively, that big power was required?

[RebelMan]

JThe 803Di sounds about 1 to 2dB louder than the 803D at same volume setting - not sure if this is due to an overall real sensitivity increase or whether this is primarily due to the tweeter which sounds as if it is boosted about 1 to 1.5dB relative to the midrange. This leads to one of the downsides of the 803Di - it does sound consistently slightly tipped up in treble - I believe the 803D sounds more natural in the treble.

B&W says that the new tweeter is more sensitive than the previous model but they also claim it contributes little or nothing to the overall sensitivity increase of the speaker. I am not so sure. I tend to think the tweeter is more responsible than not.

[beden1]

I'll have to try tilting my 803Ds down a bit as this is an area where I think the height is a disadvantage while sitting, particularly if you're not sitting at least 10-12' from the front stage. But, and interesting that you mentioned a toe-in positioning for the 803D, as I had it that way for a couple of years. Last year, I was playing with the positioning because I felt the bass sounded a bit thin. I found that the speakers actually came to life when positioned nearly straight forward after spending hours trying different positions. I have kept the current positioning the same since then and really like what I hear.

Much of the positioning has to do with the room and acoustics I would imagine?

[Pedro]

But given the less "full" but more accurate bass, you need a good portion of power to make the new Series Diamond move for real-real and get that "fullness" into the sound. With a low power amp, they play very nicely and are still very clean, but if you want to explore the full potential of the agility of the bass, you need power. My experience with the last generation "D", they had a fair amount of bass with less than optimal power, but the more power you gave them, the more punch and the more accuracy you got. With the new generation, you get a fair amount of accuracy with less power, but lack the weight of the bass until you get a good portion of power.

Congrats for the upgrade, I am sure you´ll be very satisfied with these new beasts ;x(

BTW excellent review. I never had the oportunity to hear the new diamond series but in this part I quoted, is really what I´ve been reading about them. I had many experiences with old D series speaker and that´s exactly what you said they need a lot of power to speed up and define their bass. For your comments I think i did the right thing getting the 801Ds, they could not be so excellent as the new 800Di are but carry IMO the most natural sound I ever heard from B&W. And for my main musical taste (Rock and metal) they are quite incredible, providing a great punch, forgiving the most recordings and believe or not making in some cases many miracles with bootleg auditions

[ShadowZA]

This is a fantastic thread with excellent posts by Jonzi and others.

Not having auditioned the newer "Diamond" B&W 800 series range, the reads here have been particularly interesting to me. :T

[pazu]

A very good thread!

I've a pair of 803S - a good loudspeaker, in my opinion - and I'm thinking to change it with a model of the new Diamond series.

Have someone been able to compare the 803S basses to 804Di ones?

I suppose that the 804Di is better on the high frequencies, but I don't know in the low ones.

What do you think about?

Thanks!

[beden1]

A very good thread!

I've a pair of 803S - a good loudspeaker, in my opinion - and I'm thinking to change it with a model of the new Diamond series.

Have someone been able to compare the 803S basses to 804Di ones?

I suppose that the 804Di is better on the high frequencies, but I don't know in the low ones.

What do you think about?

Thanks!

Looking at the picture of your room, the 804 Diamonds will sound lively and exciting. The bass is ample, and for that matter, I would say that the 804D is is a balanced speaker from top to bottom.

I think the 804 Diamonds as compared to say my 803Ds, sound more like a live performance, whereas the 803Ds sound more like a studio performance.

I have not listened to the 803S for 4+ years so I really can't comment with any conviction. I remember them being very good speakers as well.

[Chucka]

J

The 803Di is faster, more transparent with a bit less hash. It is as if one is using a better camera with a higher resolution and dynamic range - the picture has more detail, particularly in the difficult to handle dark and light areas - which results in pictures with more pop! The 803Di sounds more live than the 803D.
The 803Di sounds about 1 to 2dB louder than the 803D at same volume setting - not sure if this is due to an overall real sensitivity increase or whether this is primarily due to the tweeter which sounds as if it is boosted about 1 to 1.5dB relative to the midrange. This leads to one of the downsides of the 803Di - it does sound consistently slightly tipped up in treble - I believe the 803D sounds more natural in the treble. The other downside is that the 803Di is less forgiving of poorly recorded or digital compressed music - but it is not entirely fair to shoot the messenger. I still find the 803D treble to have the best balance of detail and forgiveness of any loudspeaker.
The midrange is very similar across the generations; both are still a bit recessed. However 803Di midrange is slightly leaner and cleaner – perhaps this is due to the treble differences.
The 803Di and 803D bass both have very similar depth and weight. I don’t find that that 803Di is less full than the 803D – but the 803Di is bit cleaner and a bit more agile. The result overall a bit better timing (pace& rhythm) – e.g. complex jazz with subtle timing cues is simply more interesting.
The combination of improved transparency and timings has an unexpected bonus of making it possible to listen (and hear) music at significantly reduced volume.
While the 803Di is more engaging than the 803D, it demands a more attention than the 803D which can played in the background without calling undue attention.
In summary, 803Di is more transparent and engaging whereas the 803D is more natural and forgiving. The differences are incremental and can be significantly exceeded by choice of electronics.

Very valuable view. Thank You,

Chucka

[Miketr75]

I have found good reviews and infos in this thread. Thank you all. Now I need to go find the major factor to upgrade, the Money! :-)

[RebelMan]

A very good thread!

I've a pair of 803S - a good loudspeaker, in my opinion - and I'm thinking to change it with a model of the new Diamond series.

Have someone been able to compare the 803S basses to 804Di ones?

I suppose that the 804Di is better on the high frequencies, but I don't know in the low ones.

What do you think about?

Thanks!

I owned the 803S for a few years before upgrading... to the 800D! That should tell you something about the 803S. The 803S does not excel at any particular band of frequencies persay but next to the 800D it is the most tonally balanced speaker of the entire previous series. I HIGHLY suggest you focus on your front-end and amplification first. If you are truly satisfied with your equipment then focus on the speakers.

Some recent comments about the new Diamond series is really nothing all that new. It has been commented on these boards at the time of the new series introduction (a year and a half ago and I happened to be one), that the new series makes improvements in transparency, coloration, tonality, timing and coherence. To sum up in a word I would classify the new series as a whole as exhibiting a more "airy" flair compared to the previous generation. However, what I would call "airy" others may see as "thin" and with improper matching of equipment I could agree.

As much as I like some of the improvements that have been made to the new series there is a sense of some loss as well. The loss I speak of is actually a good thing because it means the speaker is standing out of the way more than before. But it comes at the price of some lost romance (feeling of excitement and mystery associated with the love of music). The new series can seem less organic (a presence to the music that you can almost envision) and have less texture (substance to the music that you can almost feel) than the older series. Much of this is attributed to the bass production of the new series. Bass is quick on attack and nimble with precision but it comes off a little shy or perhaps a bit too polite. Speak up I say Mr. Bass for where art thou?

Your 803S has the power to make some bass, really good bass that you can enjoy but you gotta have the ancillaries to make it so. I worry that you would not be as happy with the 804D2 bass. However, the diamond tweeter of the 804D2 solves some of the nasty sibilance issues that are inherent with the aluminum tweet of the 803S and if your electronics are already plagued with such disease then you may need to free your ears by taking the 804D2 path. I still say focus on the equipment first.

[JürgenW]

Some words about the bass of the 800D2.
Before I bought the 800D2 I had the Matrix 801 Series 3. I was afraid that I would miss some (relaxed) bass when switching to the 800D2. But now I know better. I don't think it's true, it's more that the bass of the 800D2 is more precise.
When the recording is good and bass is required it can made me jump out of my chair so overwhelming does the bass come. I never had that effect with the Matrix 801 S3.
(By the way I am using mono's with the B&W's: each of them: 400 W in 8 Ohm; 700 W in 4 Ohm; 1.100 W in 2 Ohm.)

[pazu]

Rebelman, Beden1, thanks for your posts.

I know that the electronics are very important to get the better sound of a B&W loudspeaker.

Now, I've an Unison Research hybrid amplifier (valves into the pre and mosfet into the final section) with 220 W RMS/8 ohm, 370/4 ohm and 500/2 ohm (670/2 ohm as impulsive power).

In my opinion, this amplifier drives very well my 803S; further, the valves make to sound a bit smoother the aluminium twiteers of the loudspeakers.

If I look at my room's dimensions, I think the 802Di are too big and the amplifier not good.

Perhaps, a pair of 803Di could it be the best choice for me - more basses than the 804Di, I think -, but I would listen my amplifier with these loudspeakers to be sure about that.

[Rod#S]

...

The other thing that I agree with is that the 803Ds (and that generation) are more pleasant to listen to music during long listening sessions (with excellent electronics), whereas the 804Ds are a bit too analytical for pure enjoyment for the same length of time.
...

I'm wondering if this may have more to do with the room and other equipment in the system?? I have never owned any B&W speakers prior to my 802 Diamonds and HTM2 Diamond however I have no problem listening to music at fairly loud levels for extended periods of time with no listening fatigue what so ever. I didn't have a problem with fatigue when using my older Paradigm Studio 100v2's either so I'm wondering if maybe there is just some kind of different interaction between the 803D's and the 804Di's in your room or that the synergy between the 804Di's and your amps, etc isn't as good a match as it is/was with your 803D's?? My 802 Diamonds are powered by a Bryston 4B-SST which is extremely neutral I find and so is my Lexicon MC-12B. Based on my electronics, if the new Diamond series were to be considered hard to listen to for extended periods then one would think I would be experiencing that to the nth degree whereas something using say a McIntosh with the commonly described warmer or smoother sound may be less likely to experience fatigue???

[Pedro]

(By the way I am using mono's with the B&W's: each of them: 400 W in 8 Ohm; 700 W in 4 Ohm; 1.100 W in 2 Ohm.)

So you didnt have the oportunity to feed your old M801S3 with these monos?

BTW congrats for having fun with your new 800Di. I´ve helped you in another thread I am very happy you´re enjoying these top speakers :T

[JürgenW]

So you didnt have the oportunity to feed your old M801S3 with these monos?

BTW congrats for having fun with your new 800Di. I´ve helped you in another thread I am very happy you´re enjoying these top speakers :T

I used the same amps with my M801S3 and it did them good, too.

Thanks for the congratulations.

[Pedro]

Well I imagine your new 800Di are delivering much more dynamic along with higher details which can provide much more "reality" in your auditions that´s why the feel of "jump on the sofa". I am sure you´re getting a complete upgrade with them. Probably the M801 just would benefit with poor recordings where they couldnt hide their bass.

[Art Vanderlay]

It would be great to hear from owners of the new reference level B&W 800 Diamond owners.

Impression, pictures, amplification and so on......

Also how much amplification is needed to drive these beasts

Currently using a Marantz SM11s1 but I'm also looking at an upgrade. I'm leaning towards Marantz MA9s2 mono blocks because I rather like the Marantz sound.

That said, the SM11s1 is driving them exceptionally well, within its power limits. My room size is not particularly large but fortunately the bass is rock solid and not overpowering.
Soundstage is exception with these speakers. It's the most 3d ss I've heard from a pair of speakers.

[wettou]

Currently using a Marantz SM11s1 but I'm also looking at an upgrade. I'm leaning towards Marantz MA9s2 mono blocks because I rather like the Marantz sound.

That said, the SM11s1 is driving them exceptionally well, within its power limits. My room size is not particularly large but fortunately the bass is rock solid and not overpowering.
Soundstage is exception with these speakers. It's the most 3d ss I've heard from a pair of speakers.


[ATTACH=CONFIG]22232[/ATTACH]

they look very nice, no center channel? The screen looks so small compared to those beasts!

[Art Vanderlay]

they look very nice, no center channel? The screen looks so small compared to those beasts!

Yeah, the setup is more for 2ch audio than HT at this stage. The LCD is only a 40' and I usually remove it for music listening. However, I've been toying with the idea of getting some guys to create a recess in the rear wall for a larger LCD screen, which would make it acoustically more invisible. If I do that I'll add the center and surround channels.
The setup is still a WIP but wow, those 800's are sure nice.

[wettou]

Yeah, the setup is more for 2ch audio than HT at this stage. The LCD is only a 40' and I usually remove it for music listening. However, I've been toying with the idea of getting some guys to create a recess in the rear wall for a larger LCD screen, which would make it acoustically more invisible. If I do that I'll add the center and surround channels.
The setup is still a WIP but wow, those 800's are sure nice.

That would look good! What is WIP?

[Art Vanderlay]

That would look good! What is WIP?

Sorry, my bad for assuming.

WIP = work-in-progress.

I've been too used to using the acronym in my occupation.

[Art Vanderlay]

Response on listening axis. (B&W 800 Diamond)
Measured with Earthworks M30

[windshear]

Nice. At what distance was this done? Any chance of 20Hz-20kHz sweep and maybe have the smoothing at 1/6th to get a clearer picture across the spectrum.

[Freddie40]

Nice. At what distance was this done? Any chance of 20Hz-20kHz sweep and maybe have the smoothing at 1/6th to get a clearer picture across the spectrum.

Measurements of my room (802 Diamonds) using REW 1/6 smoothing.

[windshear]

Ouch, what is happening at just past 800Hz?

[Art Vanderlay]

Nice. At what distance was this done? Any chance of 20Hz-20kHz sweep and maybe have the smoothing at 1/6th to get a clearer picture across the spectrum.

The measurement was taken at a distance of 0.5m, slightly below the tweeter, which seems to be the optimum height for these speakers. I've attached the room averaged response - as measured by Dirac Live across the full width of the sofa and at heights slightly above and below ear level. Note the suck-out at 2-3kHz which is due to the sofa itself, and also the presence of a room mode at 40Hz.

I use Dirac to correct the 40Hz room mode but I now limit the correction window to 100Hz because the full bandwidth correction seemed to impart some graininess at HF. And yes, I still need a new sofa.