Originally posted by style
New B&W serie 800 !!!
Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
-
- Bottom
Comment
-
Hello everyone.
I had to reconnect with a new nickname for the former was a problem. FredBelgium became FredfishBelgium.
Thank you for your understanding.
Frederic.- Bottom
Comment
-
Hello everyone,
Yesterday I could with the help of Sammy Alpha Comparoé make a pretty serious between the old B & W 802 Diamond and its new version. The "Di".
Before any development I wanted to again thank him and his team for the freedom it gives me both the plays that my feelings written.
I do not spend too blunt to say that the difference is really important as this new "Su" is conspicuous by its transparency, its openness and its stamps.
We are talking here more of an evolution but a revolution.
What it tastes in terms of transparency, timbre, soundstage or bass management all in this new B & W has made a quantum leap more anecdotal.
The listening pleasure, this instant, without making head, which is apparent from this forum, I think, a real reference any brand. And do not talk in terms of price positioning and there is really the bomb.
Before discussing the actual Comparoé I offer some pictures on this listening ...
Beautiful piece of listening to this comparison B & W.
Significant differences. Poles are brushed aluminum, the disappearance of hidden fasteners, chrome nose, change the logo. Everything tends to go toward a certain aesthetic refinement. And they're more successful.
The more matte appearance of the "ball" in the former Marlant 802D is that the black glitter.
On the new B & W is piano black and therefore more profound. Dust deposits are thus more pronounced.
Accuphase DP-600 and E-450 for this top-flight listening.
When I arrived at Alpha, the team of Sammy had already taken care lay the speaker on the first level of the store.
The day Sammy asked me to continue my experiments on the Accuphase. I asked him to try another possibility, but he convinced me that I had not yet discovered all of this well-established brand. And he was not wrong. Sammy is a follower of the mark in association with B & W. I must admit that I understand quite a lot. This association can be really evil and this without any eccentricity hearing. It makes music and it does it well, even excellently.
Once arrived in front of all, I would spend a little time to reposition the speakers so that it corresponds to my listening habits. It will not take much time and I could very quickly begin my comparative. Here I will work with a fairly simple cable sets hp. The principle is to listen to one or two pieces of music, in their entirety on the old B & W, then connect the new B & W and repeat the same songs. And finally I make a final listening on older models. It's tedious, but I think it's the best way to get an idea about the differences in listening.
I took care to take with me those few CDs including the one offered me Mousty this Sunday I thank again. An excellent blues CD by Doug MacLeod "You Cannot Take My Blues.
In this list we meet again ...
Manu Katche 'Third Round
Joel Grare "Paris Istanbul Shanghai
Gabriele Mirabassi "Canto di ebano"
Hilary Hahn and Natalie Zhu Mozart Violin sonatas "
Rokia Traore "Bowmboï"
Jacintha "Autumn Leaves"
Diana Krall Live in Paris "
Patricia Barber "Nightclub".
These CDs will happen to my old favorites and are anchored to my ear so that my trials are the best. They are also the part tomorrow in a particular base Ankaa Rockport, the famous home AMT70 Metronome Technology and Gryphon Diablo. I'll tell you later.
I'll start my plays with "Canto di ebano" and this on the 802 legacy. Playback begins and I am waiting for something that does not happen. How not to understand my feelings after all the plays high-flown recent weeks seen in recent months. What I mean is frustrating me a bit, seems a bit dull, slightly indented. The image seems a bit weak and a bit too serious "tire". The highs are there but right out of the speakers.
Obviously I put it on the account of my day on Sunday, the last best plays of the past weeks and I do not too formalized. After all these speakers are not new and their sound aesthetic they seem to have taken serious blow old. Finally is the idea that I am at this time.
Now the new B & W 802 Diamond, which we now call "Di" are connected. I sat down again on the sofa and starts listening.
At that precise moment and the first few notes that really slams. The first thing that will surprise me is that the speakers have totally disappeared from the room. No sound comes out of them, but they come from all over the room. It is impossible for me at this moment to define exactly what comes out of the tweeter. Not that surprising, but transparency is such that the dimensional effect of the refund is simply perfect. And what about compared to the old model. Nothing to the fact that it is not simply the same enclosure. We're in another musical flair. Although obviously more efficient but more than that.
This same transparency will allow the speaker to offer stamps of realism that I have seldom heard in B & W.
The same transparency also will listen to all the volumes but especially and finally very reasonable volume while keeping a maximum of information, micro details.
I rebooted, then the old B & W and there is more picture. Listening is returned proportionally more dull. Introverted as the friend Bill would say. And there I discovered that I just want it to mount the volume. The idea is to extract what they can not have in normal listening. Funny because I find this feeling of endless search that I developed with my 801D and that led me to play with powerful amplifiers. Too powerful.
But there is nothing the result is always the same but stronger and therefore it becomes more unpleasant. It was banging, the concern is not there but it does not. Simply.
Go hop I spend listening to another and this time it will be based on the Patricia Barber "Nightclub" through "Bye Bye Blackbird" and "Yesterday". The grave of the old 802D will be a little too far, inflated. It lacks a bit dry and seems somewhat flattering. It is a phenomenon that I knew enough of course this model because it is precisely for these reasons that I had bought a pair in his time probably by immaturity audiophile. Obviously these are the reasons that I have sold. The bass is a little too routine for my taste and lacking held.
And then once on the "Di" we turn the page. Bass is much more precise and air so that when the first plays we might think he lacks a bit. Not at all. In fact it is much more articulate and nuanced. Because of this fact does not "beyond" not in the lower midrange and frees him from any constraint. It obviously contributes greatly to the stamping of the enclosure. What also disturbs with this phenomenon is the fact that we could believe that the return of missing body and then none of this. The basis of the refund is present.
It is on the CD by Diana Krall Live in Paris "on track 11" A Case of You "I would feel, at almost exactly the same feelings of definitions that this Sunday on the Omega Avantgarde Based Manley. The body of the piano being there and always right there with this precision holographic unusual. This clarification, I have often found on the Rockport and AvantGarde. Now I do not really need when listening as it does not get surgery. This is far from being the case with the speakers mentioned.
It is on the CD Joel Grare the gap between these two speakers will vote even more blatant.
The track 11 "El sueno del Condor" and track 12 "the bullet Interior" play on the rhythm-based sound from bells, grelottière, marimbas, of bendirs, castanets, hi-hats, bamboo, triangles, big-boxes, snare drum, drum of water ... etc.. But also a large drum of more than five feet in diameter. Some parts are fast and it hits big. We must hang together is because the enormous volume and plays realistic. Some of you have this experience this weekend on the Avantgarde.
Well once again the fact that quite a lot. I will report these two pieces of music with such transparency, the refund is faster, more rhythmic. The rhythm is more pronounced than on the old version. The old 802D is quieter, more introverted again. Compared it does not create the reflex of a flutter kick. Here we go more easily into the games of musicians. In the music altogether. And what about the sound of all instruments sounding metal. Absolutely superb. Great art.
I could also tell you about this new homogeneity has acquired the 802 "Di". Another of its strengths and not the least.
Or the air from between the instruments. On this point it's pretty spectacular.
Facilitate or to feed them. In this case with 2 x 180 watts!
I could also tell you about all album streamed at this roundup, but I think it is unnecessary because now you only one thing to do. Go listen to these speakers as soon as possible by urging your retailer about the quality of conditions of plays. This is one of the important points to note as it is now some years since some of you spend next to beautiful plays on the basis of a flawed implementation.
In my plays comparative And frankly, the time to recalibrate my ears on the basis of 800 "Di" that decorate the second floor. Accuphase DP-700, C-2810 and A-65 are once again the party and will allow me to relativize certain plays.
To my amazement, with 800 "Di", we find ourselves again faced with a complex system whose implementation requires a certain patient. And it is on this criterion that the 802 "Di" hits hard. A bit like the AVG this weekend. With 802 "Di" as opposed to 800 "Di" we are back, invested the music. Everything seems clear. This again is less the case with the 800 "Di" which seems more complex in its review, but also more complex in the balance. Welcome to the High End.
The 802 "Di" is more about this adaptability immediate snapshot of music. No headache with it. This is THE music first. It plays beautifully at all volume levels. On any type of music with ease.
Again great art.
In fact, in my approach the last months, he would not give me one last thing ... Play these speakers in my listening room in order to better identify them.
I'll have to talk seriously about Sammy.
Good afternoon.
Little Late PS: I agree Pat94 on prudent to have a change at 802. It could be that the association with the existing electronic gives a different and a little too stung with new 802D. This one is more clear it may be some elements to change. Elements whose goal was initially to clarify precisely the old 802D.
Frederick.- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by styleHallo,
is very strange!!!
I go in the forum from B&W from Fredbelgium and all the members say that the new serie is much better vs. the old serie: and I read that is better not only on sound BUT the WOOD is very better.
They write "...the old serie have a wood in Ikea standart ..." 8O 8O
= Ikea you know is at very unexpesive store!!!!!
And in Usa is viceversa!!! :lol: 8O
we can make 50%? :W
normally we say " the true is the middle" Or?
Style
When we talked about elfbi Shade Ikea for B & W was in the form of joke.
It is obvious that the finish of the old B&W was just as good as new.
In fact this story "IKEA" had absolutely nothing to do with the new or the old range. This story was dated even before the release of the new range.
Elfbi forum is a B&W. Nobody would question the finish of this prestigious brand with us.
Fred- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by FredfishBelgiumThis again is less the case with the 800 "Di" which seems more complex in its review, but also more complex in the balance. Welcome to the High End.
I just remember the comparison you and other friends of you did with 801D x 800D, and found the 801D better in everything especially in the bass and naturality areas. I think you should listened to the 800Di (new model), how would you compare it to your 801D ? Actually i own the 801D and for my tastes it satisfies completely, different than the 800D which didnt have the same balance, soundstage, impact etc... :T- Bottom
Comment
-
Thanks for the pics and overview Fred. Hopefully, people can objectively look at the speakers & judge for themselves. Let it be known however, people complaining about the wood grain are in the vast minority. In fact, this forum was the first place I even heard this. I co-organize a vinyl meetup group, I'm a member of various hifi clubs, know many dealers personally etc, so the sample size is quite large. Basically, most are in agreement that the new series is fabulous, in fidelity and fit & finish. ymmvA camera, passport, good music, good food and good company is all I need.- Bottom
Comment
-
Hi Fred,
I do, but I had im PM in Elfbi with more of this "question point".
Is the same wood in old and new serie and this I have from B&W self before
that the first model was available.....
here the question over a speakers made in the night and the other on the day is a question posed from more as one member..
My 803Di is in Rosenut and the sound is not the same vs. the old serie: is very very differente: much better!
the wood (I have a Rosenut) is amazing and is a little more "grainy" but the color is exactly the same.
(New speaker -> while my other speakers are about 1 year old...)
In any case there is a difference of thought between the U.S. and Europe for B & W.
Style- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by FredfishBelgium.
The first thing that will surprise me is that the speakers have totally disappeared from the room. No sound comes out of them, but they come from all over the room.
Frederick.- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by BowersMcIntoshEven a pair of 805 can do that.
Thanks again Fred for sharing your experiences regarding the new B&W Di line. It has shed some much needed clarity to these discussions.Last edited by beden1; 05 June 2010, 12:18 Saturday.- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by styleHi Fred,
I do, but I had im PM in Elfbi with more of this "question point".
Is the same wood in old and new serie and this I have from B&W self before
that the first model was available.....
here the question over a speakers made in the night and the other on the day is a question posed from more as one member..
My 803Di is in Rosenut and the sound is not the same vs. the old serie: is very very differente: much better!
the wood (I have a Rosenut) is amazing and is a little more "grainy" but the color is exactly the same.
(New speaker -> while my other speakers are about 1 year old...)
In any case there is a difference of thought between the U.S. and Europe for B & W.
Style
You got your new 803Di speakers already? Let us know how they sound as compared to your 803Ds. :T
Brooks- Bottom
Comment
-
Hi Fred,
thanks for the great review. I think you're a lucky man to have such an opportunity.
For me personally, it's a bit difficult to put your comments on a global scale. Reading your review, in a scale 1 (worst) to 10 (best), it would seem that the old line (D) is around 2 and the new line (Di) reaches 9-10. Obviously this cannot be, as the old line was considered a reference till a few months ago.
So, could you put the two speakers on your personal global scale, based on your experience?
PS I just bought the old 802D (chose to go this way to save money, they are still great speakers IMHO), from the first listenings they are great, but would be curious to know how much B&W has stretched the envelope.
Bye,
Andrea2ch Setup: Esoteric SA-50, Linn Sondek LP-12 with Lingo and Ittok, Benz Ace SL, Gryphon Diablo, B&W 802D, Kubala-Sosna Emotion XLR and Speaker, Purist Audio Dominus power cords with Oyaide C/P-004/046, Finite-Elemente Pagode Master Reference, Cerapuc, Cerabase, Bybees
Home Theater Setup: Panasonic P50VT50T Plasma, Oppo BDP-95 BD Player with digital optical to Esoteric- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by beden1Fred is very knowledgeable and active in this hobby, and it has always been my pleasure to have the opportunity of learning from his experience. He used to post here actively a number of years ago, and I leaned quite a bit from his input.
Thanks again Fred for sharing your experiences regarding the new B&W Di line. It has shed some much needed clarity to these discussions.
So we had to agree what he says?- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by BowersMcIntoshSo we had to agree what he says?- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by beden1Not at all. Believe what you wish. I am merely pointing out that it is worth reading posts from those who have a wealth of experience in listening to some of the best systems ever to be assembled. I also believe his perceptions are unclouded by any financial restraints or brand loyalties, as well, he has unique opportunities to do in-depth research before making his purchases.
As I understand it, the 802D was "better" than the 800N, and this new 802di, is better than the 800D, which more or less makes the old 800N sound like a pretty shitty speaker. I doubt it was.B&W 800 Diamond, B&W805S, B&W DB1, Classe SSP 800, DIY Icepower ASX2 600W monos, Ayre QB9, JPlay.- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by SkyblueNevertheless, it is a trademark of this business that this years model is perfect, the best ever, whereas next years model will fix all its shortcommings...
As I understand it, the 802D was "better" than the 800N, and this new 802di, is better than the 800D, which more or less makes the old 800N sound like a pretty shitty speaker. I doubt it was.- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by beden1You're preaching to the choir. In our main family room, I still use my A/D/S 910s as the L/R anchors that I bought 34 years ago.
People should obviously go listen and make up their own mind. Personally I have yet to even lay eyes of either the new 802 og 800.
However, I have a real interest in buying one of them. Not because they are the best speakers in the world. I don't think they are. But they ARE very pretty, seems very good from reviews and my plan is to buy something sufficient and be done with the hifi-itis. Ie. keep them for at least 20 years. Will fantastisk new speakers pop up in the meantime? Undoubtably. But I'm not going to care. I'll settle right away.
... if possible.B&W 800 Diamond, B&W805S, B&W DB1, Classe SSP 800, DIY Icepower ASX2 600W monos, Ayre QB9, JPlay.- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by beden1Not at all. Believe what you wish. I am merely pointing out that it is worth reading posts from those who have a wealth of experience in listening to some of the best systems ever to be assembled. I also believe his perceptions are unclouded by any financial restraints or brand loyalties, as well, he has unique opportunities to do in-depth research before making his purchases.- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by OrbSent you a PM, but not sure how many of those would include a good HT bypass.
Cheers.
Orb
Its been several months since I've been on the forum. I've appreciated, from what I interpret, your honest opinions on gear. It looks like another poster has some serious disagreements and isn't playing very nice. Thank you for maintaining composure and a being a gentleman.
In the past I was pondering 804's, then 803's, then finally 802's. I personally didn't like the sound from the 803's over the 804's. My wife doesn't like the 802's looks, not to mention the cost. Its not that I can't afford the 802's, I just want to be a smart consumer. I'm interested to know your thoughts on your new speakers once you listen. My struggle with a decision is based upon the idea that 802di's are probably better sounding speakers, but from your reports the 805di's with a good sub comes pretty darn close. I'm certainly leaning this direction. However, my room is 18x22' with 9' ceiling. My listening point is ~10 feet away. Do you think that the 805's will be "powerful" enough for this room that has no acoustical treatments?
Also, why not a Rotel or Marantz amp/ preamp versus Denon? What about the new NAD M5 line?
As prior posts have stated, I don't consider your word "gospel" but do respect it as it is carefully laid out in a rational and organized manner.
Cheers,
Patrick- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by swaybackTim,
Its been several months since I've been on the forum. I've appreciated, from what I interpret, your honest opinions on gear. It looks like another poster has some serious disagreements and isn't playing very nice. Thank you for maintaining composure and a being a gentleman.
In the past I was pondering 804's, then 803's, then finally 802's. I personally didn't like the sound from the 803's over the 804's. My wife doesn't like the 802's looks, not to mention the cost. Its not that I can't afford the 802's, I just want to be a smart consumer. I'm interested to know your thoughts on your new speakers once you listen. My struggle with a decision is based upon the idea that 802di's are probably better sounding speakers, but from your reports the 805di's with a good sub comes pretty darn close. I'm certainly leaning this direction. However, my room is 18x22' with 9' ceiling. My listening point is ~10 feet away. Do you think that the 805's will be "powerful" enough for this room that has no acoustical treatments?
Also, why not a Rotel or Marantz amp/ preamp versus Denon? What about the new NAD M5 line?
As prior posts have stated, I don't consider your word "gospel" but do respect it as it is carefully laid out in a rational and organized manner.
Cheers,
Patrick
You quoted Orb, but I believe that your post is directed at me since you talk about 805Di and Denon.
When I compared the 805Di and 802Di in the store, I thought the 805Di held their own in everything but the lowest bass. My room is 23 x 13 x 9, I sit 12 feet away, and the 805Di's have no problem filling my room with spirited levels of music. Add the JL sub into the mix, and things got even better.
It seems you are still catching up on your reading though, and you may not know that I have already parted ways with the 805Di. I found them to be a little too sharp sounding with my current system and I ran into difficulty wall mounting the 805Di as my surrounds. But I think that if you have some flexibility in finding the right front end, that sharpness could be tamed. But keep in mind that I have a particular sensitivity to sharp sounding systems, and you may not even notice what I heard. I have friends that did not. I think the Marantz AV8003 processor (if you are doing HT) is a nice smooth sounding piece that would compliment the sound of the Di. I also thought they sounded great on the Rotel 2CH integrated.
At the end of the day, I am on a very personal quest so what I say about this or that should be taken in that context. I still feel that the 805Di's have a lot to offer and they should definitely be on anyone's short list of stand-mount speakers to audition.
- Tim- Bottom
Comment
-
Tim,
Thanks for the update. You are correct, I didn't know you had parted with the 805's. What are you considering now?
Thanks for the advice regarding Marantz, Rotel, etc. Again, I know it is your opinion but I appreciate it as it is rational.
Cheers,
patrick- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by swaybackTim,
Thanks for the update. You are correct, I didn't know you had parted with the 805's. What are you considering now?
Thanks for the advice regarding Marantz, Rotel, etc. Again, I know it is your opinion but I appreciate it as it is rational.
Cheers,
patrick
The full story here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post18736542- Bottom
Comment
-
Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by wettou
Yeah that is probably just primer but i think white would look pretty good!- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by wettou
Thank you for having sent the link to members HTGuide!
Frederic.- Bottom
Comment
-
Hi,
another great B&W "service":
http://www.newmusic.be/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=375 :T
B&W work very fine.
Style :W- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by styleHi,
another great B&W "service":
http://www.newmusic.be/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=375 :T
B&W work very fine.
Style :W- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by hardyHi everybody,
I'm very happy. Got a call from my dealer today. He told me, that my pair of 800 Diamond and my new HTM2 Diamond will arrive there on Monday. They will install them at my home on Tuesday. I will send pictures soon.
Hardy
:T- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by hardyHi everybody,
I'm very happy. Got a call from my dealer today. He told me, that my pair of 800 Diamond and my new HTM2 Diamond will arrive there on Monday. They will install them at my home on Tuesday. I will send pictures soon.
Hardy
Please post pics when they are up and running! What are your system details?
Congrats! :T- Bottom
Comment
-
My system details are:
Speakers:
Front left & right: 2 800 Diamond pianoblack
Center: 1 HTM 2 Diamond pianoblack
Surround left & right: 2 SCMS cherrywood
Surround back left & right: 2 SCMS Cherrywood
SUBS left & right: 2 ASW 825 cherrywood (maybe 1 DB1 soon)
Electronic:
1 Classé SSP-800
4 Classé CA-M400 (Biamping of the Front Speakers)
1 Classè CA-5200
TV:
Panasonic TH65-PZ800e
Cable:
Preamp to Amps: In-Akustic Black&White 1302 XLR
Amps to Speakers: In-Akustic Black&White 1302
Sources to Preamp: In-Akustic Black&White HDMI
Preamp to TV: In-Akustic Black&White HDMI
Hardy- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by hardyMy system details are:
Speakers:
Front left & right: 2 800 Diamond pianoblack
Center: 1 HTM 2 Diamond pianoblack
Surround left & right: 2 SCMS cherrywood
Surround back left & right: 2 SCMS Cherrywood
SUBS left & right: 2 ASW 825 cherrywood (maybe 1 DB1 soon)
Electronic:
1 Classé SSP-800
4 Classé CA-M400 (Biamping of the Front Speakers)
1 Classè CA-5200
TV:
Panasonic TH65-PZ800e
Cable:
Preamp to Amps: In-Akustic Black&White 1302 XLR
Amps to Speakers: In-Akustic Black&White 1302
Sources to Preamp: In-Akustic Black&White HDMI
Preamp to TV: In-Akustic Black&White HDMI
Hardy
:W- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by hardyMy system details are:
Speakers:
Front left & right: 2 800 Diamond pianoblack
Center: 1 HTM 2 Diamond pianoblack
Surround left & right: 2 SCMS cherrywood
Surround back left & right: 2 SCMS Cherrywood
SUBS left & right: 2 ASW 825 cherrywood (maybe 1 DB1 soon)
Electronic:
1 Classé SSP-800
4 Classé CA-M400 (Biamping of the Front Speakers)
1 Classè CA-5200
TV:
Panasonic TH65-PZ800e
Cable:
Preamp to Amps: In-Akustic Black&White 1302 XLR
Amps to Speakers: In-Akustic Black&White 1302
Sources to Preamp: In-Akustic Black&White HDMI
Preamp to TV: In-Akustic Black&White HDMI
HardyI'm just sittin here watchin the wheels go round and round...- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by JesperAI love the glossy black but what about white:
Yeah that is probably just primer but i think white would look pretty good!
Do you mean like this? :T
Last edited by BowersMcIntosh; 22 June 2010, 21:31 Tuesday.- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by hardyMy system details are:
Speakers:
Front left & right: 2 800 Diamond pianoblack
Center: 1 HTM 2 Diamond pianoblack
Surround left & right: 2 SCMS cherrywood
Surround back left & right: 2 SCMS Cherrywood
SUBS left & right: 2 ASW 825 cherrywood (maybe 1 DB1 soon)
Electronic:
1 Classé SSP-800
4 Classé CA-M400 (Biamping of the Front Speakers)
1 Classè CA-5200
TV:
Panasonic TH65-PZ800e
Cable:
Preamp to Amps: In-Akustic Black&White 1302 XLR
Amps to Speakers: In-Akustic Black&White 1302
Sources to Preamp: In-Akustic Black&White HDMI
Preamp to TV: In-Akustic Black&White HDMI
Hardy- Bottom
Comment
-
As the bumbling comedian says: "That's a tough room!" Of course, I am referring to the acoustics.Kal Rubinson
_______________________________
"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://forum.stereophile.com/category/music-round- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by hardyHere are the first Pics - will send better ones soon. one of the subs is in service.
Hardy- Bottom
Comment
Comment