New B&W serie 800 !!!

[KyaDawn]

Very well said :T There is no audio nirvana, may be after a glass of Chateau Mouton Rothschild Pauillac 1995 or after going to the symphony hall like the Wall Disney Concert Hall http://www.laphil.com/ :B

Ah, one of my favorite Bordeaux. That along with Petrus, and yes, it can help ease one along to audio nirvana! :B

I could not agree more that 99% of the rags are not objective at all since they all receive fat pay checks from companies to advertise their products!!
I like to read them and look at the pictures and get practical ideas

Also I remember a publication that did not take advertisement to survive and unfortunately is not longer around they said

"Things have changed

Today, magazines are big business and the entertainment business is the business they’re in. Their revenue comes from selling advertising, and the amount that they can charge for their advertising space is based on circulation. Expanding circulation requires broadening appeal to a wider audience of both readers and advertisers. Are high standards and broad appeal mutually exclusive? Is a frog waterproof? As the field narrows, with less prominent publications either folding their tents or merging together, we are left with a high-end press that publishes what is essentially advertising copy for a few high-end manufacturers. Nothing they review ever performs poorly and no writer mentions that charging $30,000 or more for a pair of loudspeakers is simply obscene.

We get rave reviews of $20,000 speaker cables and $50,000 amplifiers that produce 3 watts of power. We are shown pictures of half-million-dollar home theater systems in the estates of movie producers because it’s entertaining. But what if we want some information about the products that we might really want to purchase for our own homes with money that most of us have to earn.

Today’s magazine reviews are used as sales tools but they offer little information of real value. A typical review begins by paraphrasing the manufacturer’s advertising claims without questioning whether these claims have any validity. Then the reviewer rephrases the instruction manual with a description of how the product works. Wise consumers can obtain this information with greater accuracy directly from the manufacturer at no cost. What value has the magazine review added?

The magazines are written by amateurs for the most part. Most of the other writers offer equipment reviews as a sideline job which allows them to play with expensive equipment for free. They may have less experience setting up hi-fi systems than you do. What value do their subjective opinions have?

Stifling Progress

New manufacturers can’t get a foothold in the marketplace without a magazine review. Dealers simply won’t try to sell a product that has not received a positive review, yet Stereophile, for example, won’t review a product that isn’t sold by at least six dealers. This “Catch-22” has brought progress in the high-end to a virtual standstill. The only things that continue to steadily advance are the exorbitant prices. I’m sure that many potential enthusiasts have opened a high-end magazine and looked at the prices of the products they’re reading about and abandoned the hobby without further investigation. $10,000, or more, for speaker cable? Who’s kidding whom?

Fantastic quote! :T I think it describes the current conundrum of audio publications so well. I'm not surprised that this magazine didn't survive as they themselves observed, "Are high standards and broad appeal mutually exclusive? Is a frog waterproof?" I'm curious to know what the name of the magazine was? Wouldn't mind trying to score some of their back issues!

[emig5m]

Who still reads magazines when you have the internet in which you can interact with others with the same interests and can also get up to date info daily and not have to wait month-to-month, lol. :lol: I used to be a subscriber to Stereo Review back in the day but lost interest when I think they merged with another magazine and formed Sound&Vision. Kinda wish I never threw out my Stereo Review magazine collection as I had entire year subscriptions of them stashed away in storage I could of scanned in and made PDF digital archive files of....

But I haven't bought/read a magazine in I can't remember how many years..... All internet for me.

[wettou]

Who still reads magazines when you have the internet in which you can interact with others with the same interests and can also get up to date info daily and not have to wait month-to-month, lol. :lol: I used to be a subscriber to Stereo Review back in the day but lost interest when I think they merged with another magazine and formed Sound&Vision. Kinda wish I never threw out my Stereo Review magazine collection as I had entire year subscriptions of them stashed away in storage I could of scanned in and made PDF digital archive files of....

But I haven't bought/read a magazine in I can't remember how many years..... All internet for me.

For $10 a year subscription I still like to read the rags but always get online and go listen when I really want to know reality. power of the net and my ears :T

[Skyblue]

Hi Alebonau, that's an interesting observation. I've never heard the Bel Canto REF1000, but AV-OCD mentioned that it was similar to the Rotel RB-1092, and it's true, they are based on the same Bang & Olufsen 1000ASP module. Your description of the Bel Canto closely mirrors my initial experience with the RB-1092 at the audition when I compared it to two Classe amps. In fact, "dry", "neutral" and "sterile" is a perfect way to describe how I heard the RB-1092! It's then interesting to me that AV-OCD thought they sounded similar to the Classe CA-M400, which I don't think sounds dry, neutral or sterile at all!

Your experience with the Wyred amp compared with the Bel Canto underlines my point that amps can and do sound very different from each other. It underlines it even more that the two you listened to were based on the same B&O ice amp, and yet sounded so different to you.

I believe the icepower amps need about 3-500 hours of breaking in. Maybe you just heard them at different levels of break-in. My QB-9 sounded horrible for the first 100 hours, now its great.

[Relentless]

My QB-9 sounded horrible for the first 100 hours, now its great.

Mine started to sound decent at about 50 hours but I think it took about 250 hours to sound about where it is now. Now the new boards are going to be in so that means some more break in time. This is a picture thread I would post a pic of it cause it looks cool in black but I am sure everyone has seen one.

[Skyblue]

... in the end, we should all make our own purchase decisions based on our own opinions.

I for one, only attend this forums so that I can ignore everything you all write when I hear it for myself.

[KyaDawn]

I for one, only attend this forums so that I can ignore everything you all write when I hear it for myself.

As you should, especially when you are making the decision to purchase! :B Reading other opinions is fun and it's also a good resource for finding out which products to check out and getting ideas. But what I was referring to was when you actually buy a product. Certainly it's important to make that decision with your own ears, not anyone else's!

[wettou]

...... when you actually buy a product. Certainly it's important to make that decision with your own ears, not anyone else's!

I agree of course, unless like many people you are unable to make a decision on your own

[KyaDawn]

I agree of course, unless like many people you are unable to make a decision on your own

I would be happy to dictate to anyone what they should buy if they ask me! :W

[AV-OCD]

805Di - a big thumbs up!

Listened to the 805Di's today and they are fantastic speakers.

Balanced from top to bottom, great resolution without sounding edgy or analytical, impressive bass for their size, pinpoint imaging and a stable center image off axis. Maybe a touch recessed through the mids. Powered by a modest Rotel integrated amp (RA-1520) and Rotel CD player (RCD-1520). $2K for the pair.

I was offered the chance to listen to the 804Dis, but one of the other salesmen moved them out an put the 803Di's in their place. So I listened to the 802Di's instead. Also a phenominal speaker. I have to say they sounded a touch forward/bright. Though thanks to the very clean sound of the diamond tweet and FST, this character was not offensive in any way. And trust me, I brought some music that would make them sizzle if they were going to. The 802Dis were connected to $31,000 of "uber-fi" gear including Audio Research tube amp (VS60, $5K) and Audio Research preamp (LS26, $6K), and Meridian's top of the line CD player (808.3 Signature, $20K).

Truth is, other than slightly tighter bass, a bit more detail and a slightly more analog sound (thanks to the tubes), I didn't feel the 802Di system was leagues better than the 805Di system. And that includes the vast difference in front end gear. I think that properly crossed over to a JL F112 sub, the 805Di's would come within 90% of what the 802Di's offer when played back at less than bone crushing levels. Just my 2 cents. YMMV. 8)

[wettou]

Listened to the 805Di's today and they are fantastic speakers.

Balanced from top to bottom, great resolution without sounding edgy or analytical, impressive bass for their size, pinpoint imaging and a stable center image off axis. Maybe a touch recessed through the mids. Powered by a modest Rotel integrated amp (RA-1520) and Rotel CD player (RCD-1520). $2K for the pair.

I was offered the chance to listen to the 804Dis, but one of the other salesmen moved them out an put the 803Di's in their place. So I listened to the 802Di's instead. Also a phenominal speaker. I have to say they sounded a touch forward/bright. Though thanks to the very clean sound of the diamond tweet and FST, this character was not offensive in any way. And trust me, I brought some music that would make them sizzle if they were going to. The 802Dis were connected to $31,000 of "uber-fi" gear including Audio Research tube amp (VS60, $5K) and Audio Research preamp (LS26, $6K), and Meridian's top of the line CD player (808.3 Signature, $20K).

Truth is, other than slightly tighter bass, a bit more detail and a slightly more analog sound (thanks to the tubes), I didn't feel the 802Di system was leagues better than the 805Di system. And that includes the vast difference in front end gear. I think that properly crossed over to a JL F112 sub, the 805Di's would come within 90% of what the 802Di's offer when played back at less than bone crushing levels. Just my 2 cents. YMMV. 8)

Tim fabulous news what a big saving, yes it is always that 10% that cost an arm and a leg

[beden1]

Listened to the 805Di's today and they are fantastic speakers.

Truth is, other than slightly tighter bass, a bit more detail and a slightly more analog sound (thanks to the tubes), I didn't feel the 802Di system was leagues better than the 805Di system. And that includes the vast difference in front end gear. I think that properly crossed over to a JL F112 sub, the 805Di's would come within 90% of what the 802Di's offer when played back at less than bone crushing levels. Just my 2 cents. YMMV. 8)

Possibly I could refer you to a good ears, nose and throat MD to help you with your hearing deficiencies! :B

I think you have a case of being subconsciously influenced by the potential cost savings.

[AV-OCD]

Possibly I could refer you to a good ears, nose and throat MD to help you with your hearing deficiencies! :B

I think you have a case of being subconsciously persuaded by the potential cost savings.

:Z

Or perhaps I haven't been brainwashed by all of the marketing hype in the industry (from both the manufacturers and the magazines they pay), nor have I bought into the American way of "bigger must be better".

Some people are more easily sold I guess. 8)

[beden1]

:Z

Or perhaps I haven't been brainwashed by all of the marketing hype in the industry (from both the manufacturers and the magazines they pay), nor have I bought into the American way of "bigger must be better".

Some people are more easily sold I guess. 8)

The physical laws of nature supports that there is no replacement for displacement, and that's no hype!

It's like comparing the power of a Toyota Prius to my ZO6 Corvette.

[wettou]

:Z Or perhaps I haven't been brainwashed by all of the marketing hype in the industry (from both the manufacturers and the magazines they pay), nor have I bought into the American way of "bigger must be better". Some people are more easily sold I guess. 8)

Well just look at the Obesity rate in our country and you understand that BIGGER IS BETTER...

Now having said that there is still a difference between an 802D and a 805Di is ten time better probably not is the price difference justified definitely not especially when you think the dealers get the same margins

So $5000 MSRP for the 805Di dealer cost $2500 - $3000

and $14,000 MSRP for the 802Di dealer cost $7000 - $8400

Off course the dealer wants to sell you the most expensive piece of equipment, speakers, processors....they make mega $$$$

Of course all this compared to the Grand Utopia III at $180,000 the dealer makes $90,000 and then you wonder why they drive Ferraris?

[AV-OCD]

The physical laws of nature supports that there is no replacement for displacement, and that's no hype!

It's like comparing the power of a Toyota Prius to my ZO6 Corvette.

The average person listens to music at roughly 78 dB with 15 dB peaks max. Take the speaker sensitivity (88dB for 1 watt @ 1M for the 805Di), add 3 dB to that for room gain and another 3 dB for running in stereo, subtract 10 dB for an average listening distance of 10 feet and you have a set of speakers that will require less than 1 watt of power to reach 78 dB, and about 32 watts for the peaks. I'm pretty sure that the 805Di's can handle that. Add a properly integrated and high quality sub and you've got a truly full range high fidelity speaker system.

Even if you want to bump it up to what most people would consider loud at an avg. level of 88 dB with 15 dB peaks, you now need 2 watts for the average level and 64 watts for the peaks.

[wettou]

The average person listens to music at roughly 78 dB with 15 dB peaks max. Take the speaker sensitivity (88dB for 1 watt @ 1M for the 805Di), add 3 dB to that for room gain and another 3 dB for running in stereo, subtract 10 dB for an average listening distance of 10 feet and you have a set of speakers that will require less than 1 watt of power to reach 78 dB, and about 32 watts for the peaks. I'm pretty sure that the 805Di's can handle that. Add a properly integrated and high quality sub and you've got a truly full range high fidelity speaker system.

Even if you want to bump it up to what most people would consider loud at an avg. level of 88 dB with 15 dB peaks, you now need 2 watts for the average level and 64 watts for the peaks.

Interesting math?

[beden1]

The average person listens to music at roughly 78 dB with 15 dB peaks max. Take the speaker sensitivity (88dB for 1 watt @ 1M for the 805Di), add 3 dB to that for room gain and another 3 dB for running in stereo, subtract 10 dB for an average listening distance of 10 feet and you have a set of speakers that will require less than 1 watt of power to reach 78 dB, and about 32 watts for the peaks. I'm pretty sure that the 805Di's can handle that. Add a properly integrated and high quality sub and you've got a truly full range high fidelity speaker system.

Even if you want to bump it up to what most people would consider loud at an avg. level of 88 dB with 15 dB peaks, you now need 2 watts for the average level and 64 watts for the peaks.

Without trying to confuse the issue with a lot of numbers, it's basic that a good speaker can produce a full sound at all volume levels.

The 'hype" IMO, comes mostly from those bookshelf speaker manufacturers like Wilson-Benesch, who "claim" that their overpriced speakers can handle the full duty of floor standing three way speakers. It's just physically impossible, as I think you also discovered and unloaded your W-B speakers.

[RedRock]

Or perhaps I haven't been brainwashed by all of the marketing hype in the industry (from both the manufacturers and the magazines they pay), nor have I bought into the American way of "bigger must be better".

My thoughts exactly. Although I could have gone with the 803Di, I'm completely satisfied with the sound quality of my 804Di mains. The key to excellent low end performance was properly integrating the sub into the system.

[AV-OCD]

Interesting math?

Here's an SPL calculator to make it easy for ya.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

[beden1]

Here's an SPL calculator to make it easy for ya.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

No thanks. I use my ears to actually listen to how speakers and systems sound. :T

[AV-OCD]

Without trying to confuse the issue with a lot of numbers, it's basic that a good speaker can produce a full sound at all volume levels.

The 'hype" IMO, comes mostly from those bookshelf speaker manufacturers like Wilson-Benesch, who "claim" that their overpriced speakers can handle the full duty of floor standing three way speakers. It's just physically impossible, as I think you also discovered and unloaded your W-B speakers.

And here is the calculator for you too, since you think that I'm trying to cloud the issue with numbers.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

And how does your second argument hold up when one considers that the WB's had three 7" drivers, and I'm moving to 805Di's that have just one?

You aren't going to uncover any conspiracy by prodding and poking at my choices. I'm being as transparent as I possibly can be.

[AV-OCD]

No thanks. I use my ears to actually listen to how speakers and systems sound. :T

Calculating SPL is not a subjective matter that requires "listening". Do you think your doctor should cut you open and feel around until he finds the problem, or use an ultrasound machine? 8O

[wettou]

Beden1 And AV-OCD

Peace brothers this is not exact science it is only one opinion vs an other just like the existence of God!!! Either you believe or you don't :W

[beden1]

And here is the calculator for you too, since you think that I'm trying to cloud the issue with numbers.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

And how does your second argument hold up when one considers that the WB's had three 7" drivers, and I'm moving to 805Di's that have just one?

I guess you'll just be 1/3rd as satisfied then?

I'm sure the 805Di's are very good speakers, but would be best used for their intended purpose of serving as main bookshelf speakers in a small room or as surround speakers in a combo HT/music system.

I'm considering getting (3) 805Di's for the front end of an HT system I'm planning to replace in my PA house, along with using 2 XT2's for the surrounds that I am no longer using in another system I had in a bedroom. But, this system is 99% used for HT along with two subs, and I would not consider them to use as main speakers in my system that I use primarily for listening to music.

[AV-OCD]

Beden1 And AV-OCD

Peace brothers this is not exact science it is only one opinion vs an other just like the existence of God!!! Either you believe or you don't :W

He started it! :lol:

I know that I won't sway Benden to believe anything he isn't prepared to, but I hope that I might shed some new light on the subject of what it really takes to fill an average room with high quality sound.

[alebonau]

The average person listens to music at roughly 78 dB with 15 dB peaks max. Take the speaker sensitivity (88dB for 1 watt @ 1M for the 805Di), add 3 dB to that for room gain and another 3 dB for running in stereo, subtract 10 dB for an average listening distance of 10 feet and you have a set of speakers that will require less than 1 watt of power to reach 78 dB, and about 32 watts for the peaks. I'm pretty sure that the 805Di's can handle that. Add a properly integrated and high quality sub and you've got a truly full range high fidelity speaker system.

Even if you want to bump it up to what most people would consider loud at an avg. level of 88 dB with 15 dB peaks, you now need 2 watts for the average level and 64 watts for the peaks.

tim well done on the calcs, at my home forum I have stickied pretty much the same so people can work out how much power they need !

and is exactly why I think hearing the 805s with just a 36w mf a1 class a amp sounded just great. they are a pretty easy speaker to drive and do not indeed need a squilion of watts to do their thing

good ot read your impressions of the 805D and thoughts vs the 802D have no idea why people might be offended with you posting your impressions.

[AV-OCD]

tim well done on the calcs, at my home forum I have stickied pretty much the same so people can work out how much power they need !

and is exactly why I think hearing the 805s with just a 36w mf a1 class a amp sounded just great. they are a pretty easy speaker to drive and do not indeed need a squilion of watts to do their thing

good ot read your impressions of the 805D and thoughts vs the 802D have no idea why people might be offended with you posting your impressions.

Good on you Al.

Yeah, unless you are trying to reach movie theater reference levels of 105 dB in your home, you need a lot less power (and smaller speakers) than many have been lead to believe.

I think some people get miffed with that as a possibility because it challenges the status quo and if they own a super-sized system it may indirectly challenge their decision.

I'm not saying that large full range speakers are always excess, they do have their place. And if you MUST have full range speakers, a bookshelf speaker won't get you there alone. I guess I just don't understand the widespread aversion to using a subwoofer in a music system.

[Aiden]

Listened to the 805Di's today and they are fantastic speakers.

Balanced from top to bottom, great resolution without sounding edgy or analytical, impressive bass for their size, pinpoint imaging and a stable center image off axis. Maybe a touch recessed through the mids. Powered by a modest Rotel integrated amp (RA-1520) and Rotel CD player (RCD-1520). $2K for the pair.

I was offered the chance to listen to the 804Dis, but one of the other salesmen moved them out an put the 803Di's in their place. So I listened to the 802Di's instead. Also a phenominal speaker. I have to say they sounded a touch forward/bright. Though thanks to the very clean sound of the diamond tweet and FST, this character was not offensive in any way. And trust me, I brought some music that would make them sizzle if they were going to. The 802Dis were connected to $31,000 of "uber-fi" gear including Audio Research tube amp (VS60, $5K) and Audio Research preamp (LS26, $6K), and Meridian's top of the line CD player (808.3 Signature, $20K).

Truth is, other than slightly tighter bass, a bit more detail and a slightly more analog sound (thanks to the tubes), I didn't feel the 802Di system was leagues better than the 805Di system. And that includes the vast difference in front end gear. I think that properly crossed over to a JL F112 sub, the 805Di's would come within 90% of what the 802Di's offer when played back at less than bone crushing levels. Just my 2 cents. YMMV. 8)

Thanks for the review, Tim!

Man, I so want to listen to these!

[Aiden]

Possibly I could refer you to a good ears, nose and throat MD to help you with your hearing deficiencies! :B

I think you have a case of being subconsciously influenced by the potential cost savings.

:wtf:

Edit: I just wanted to add, why is it that when someone never bothers to appreciate or understand the technical aspects of this exhilarating hobby, they always response with "I use my ears"!

[Aiden]

Good on you Al.

Yeah, unless you are trying to reach movie theater reference levels of 105 dB in your home, you need a lot less power (and smaller speakers) than many have been lead to believe.

I think some people get miffed with that as a possibility because it challenges the status quo and if they own a super-sized system it may indirectly challenge their decision.

I'm not saying that large full range speakers are always excess, they do have their place. And if you MUST have full range speakers, a bookshelf speaker won't get you there alone. I guess I just don't understand the widespread aversion to using a subwoofer in a music system.

Did you manage to push these, Tim, to a point where one would begin to notice that advantages of a dedicated mid? My issue would be that I like to listen at rather spirited levels and have had issues where a bookshelf would begin to show its limits.

BTW, I couldn't agree with you more on subs with 2 channel even with full range speakers.

[Orb]

Did you manage to push these, Tim, to a point where one would begin to notice that advantages of a dedicated mid? My issue would be that I like to listen at rather spirited levels and have had issues where a bookshelf would begin to show its limits.

BTW, I couldn't agree with you more on subs with 2 channel even with full range speakers.

Hahaha I think most have an aversion to sub integration because its bad enough that the wife has an inkling how much we paid for the system, add to it the sight of us being caught crawling around on the floor muttering "come on! that sweet spot is somewhere around here" for sub placement would just be too shameful for most of us :lol:

Cheers
Orb

[AV-OCD]

Did you manage to push these, Tim, to a point where one would begin to notice that advantages of a dedicated mid? My issue would be that I like to listen at rather spirited levels and have had issues where a bookshelf would begin to show its limits.

BTW, I couldn't agree with you more on subs with 2 channel even with full range speakers.

Hi Alden -

Sorry no, I didn't crank 'em. Didn't want to push it on a system that isn't mine. I get what you're saying though. If you do like to rock out, a dedicated mid will have less intermodulation distortion than a mid/bass driver at high levels, even with them crossed to a sub @ 80Hz. If you can wait until I get my set, I'll push em a bit harder.

Do you know how loud (in SPLs) you listen? At from what distance?

[Orb]

Listened to the 805Di's today and they are fantastic speakers.

Balanced from top to bottom, great resolution without sounding edgy or analytical, impressive bass for their size, pinpoint imaging and a stable center image off axis. Maybe a touch recessed through the mids. Powered by a modest Rotel integrated amp (RA-1520) and Rotel CD player (RCD-1520). $2K for the pair.

I was offered the chance to listen to the 804Dis, but one of the other salesmen moved them out an put the 803Di's in their place. So I listened to the 802Di's instead. Also a phenominal speaker. I have to say they sounded a touch forward/bright. Though thanks to the very clean sound of the diamond tweet and FST, this character was not offensive in any way. And trust me, I brought some music that would make them sizzle if they were going to. The 802Dis were connected to $31,000 of "uber-fi" gear including Audio Research tube amp (VS60, $5K) and Audio Research preamp (LS26, $6K), and Meridian's top of the line CD player (808.3 Signature, $20K).

Truth is, other than slightly tighter bass, a bit more detail and a slightly more analog sound (thanks to the tubes), I didn't feel the 802Di system was leagues better than the 805Di system. And that includes the vast difference in front end gear. I think that properly crossed over to a JL F112 sub, the 805Di's would come within 90% of what the 802Di's offer when played back at less than bone crushing levels. Just my 2 cents. YMMV. 8)

Yo bud thanks for the comments.
Interesting comment regarding the 802Di, with the AR system I would expect it to be less forward/bright, however I do wonder if your picking up on the FST as I know a few others actually prefer the 805 mids due to that, or maybe the 802di needed breaking in.
More likely the FST though?

Cheers
Orb

[sikoniko]

Yo bud thanks for the comments.
Interesting comment regarding the 802Di, with the AR system I would expect it to be less forward/bright, however I do wonder if your picking up on the FST as I know a few others actually prefer the 805 mids due to that, or maybe the 802di needed breaking in.
More likely the FST though?

Cheers
Orb

that is the biggest area that would concern me about downgrading to 805Di... no FST.

[beden1]

:wtf:

Edit: I just wanted to add, why is it that when someone never bothers to appreciate or understand the technical aspects of this exhilarating hobby, they always response with "I use my ears"!

Why do you need to rely so much on "technical aspects" when the only measuring instrument that our brains can decifer sound is through our ears? Do you really need a device to tell you what you hear? If you do, possibly the device you need is a hearing aid.

"WTF"!

[Aiden]

Why do you need to rely so much on "technical aspects" when the only measuring instrument that our brains can decifer sound is through our ears? Do you really need a device to tell you what you hear? If you do, possibly the device you need is a hearing aid.

"WTF"!

I can certainly appreciate your position, Beden. Here is the problem though, while our ears may be a very accurate piece of equipment in terms of its acoustic composition and has the ability to detect subtle nuances, our minds have a tendency to get in the way of what our ears are actually hearing. Funny thing is, our hearing is not the only aspect of ones life that is affected by rationalization and placebo.

My personal stance is that looking from both sides of the fence allows one to keep an open, objective mind without losing what makes this hobby such an enjoyable experience... the subjectivity.

[Aiden]

Hi Alden -

Sorry no, I didn't crank 'em. Didn't want to push it on a system that isn't mine. I get what you're saying though. If you do like to rock out, a dedicated mid will have less intermodulation distortion than a mid/bass driver at high levels, even with them crossed to a sub @ 80Hz. If you can wait until I get my set, I'll push em a bit harder.

Do you know how loud (in SPLs) you listen? At from what distance?

With my subs pumping I listen at ear bleeding levels (not for extended periods of time of course. I have measured between 75-90db with my analog RS meter and I do crossover at 80hz.

I look forward to your impressions, Tim, and thank you!

[Aiden]

Hahaha I think most have an aversion to sub integration because its bad enough that the wife has an inkling how much we paid for the system, add to it the sight of us being caught crawling around on the floor muttering "come on! that sweet spot is somewhere around here" for sub placement would just be too shameful for most of us :lol:

Cheers
Orb

Lol! I was tweaking my sub placement a couple weeks ago and my wife thought I was nuts... "What are you doi... NVM! :crazy: "

[stuofsci02]

Good on you Al.

Yeah, unless you are trying to reach movie theater reference levels of 105 dB in your home, you need a lot less power (and smaller speakers) than many have been lead to believe.

Yes.. Yes.. Yes.. Amen!

I am so sick of threads where someone asks how much power they need to drive their 683s and they are told at least 200 wpc...

It makes me wonder what people are doing with their speakers that I'm not..

[Orb]

Lol! I was tweaking my sub placement a couple weeks ago and my wife thought I was nuts... "What are you doi... NVM! :crazy: "

Haha see it happens :lol:
Thanks
Orb

[AV-OCD]

Yes.. Yes.. Yes.. Amen!

I am so sick of threads where someone asks how much power they need to drive their 683s and they are told at least 200 wpc...

It makes me wonder what people are doing with their speakers that I'm not..

It's like running a dedicated 20A AC line to a 100 watt light bulb. Unless you are running stadium lighting off of that 20A line, it is simply overkill.

[stuofsci02]

It's like running a dedicated 20A AC line to a 100 watt light bulb. Unless you are running stadium lighting off of that 20A line, it is simply overkill.

Yeah.. I have been saying this for ages..

I have heard the 801D with my 130 wpc Chord and although I am sure they have sounded better, I did not find the amp holding them back.

[KyaDawn]

Truth is, other than slightly tighter bass, a bit more detail and a slightly more analog sound (thanks to the tubes), I didn't feel the 802Di system was leagues better than the 805Di system. And that includes the vast difference in front end gear. I think that properly crossed over to a JL F112 sub, the 805Di's would come within 90% of what the 802Di's offer when played back at less than bone crushing levels. Just my 2 cents. YMMV. 8)

Well as you know, not really a proper A/B comparison if you're not using the same components, and sounds like not even in the same room? Whether the gear driving the 802Di's was "leagues better" is debatable in this scenario. It could be the Rotel system matched better with the 805Di's than the Audio Research tube gear did with the 802Di's. Who knows? Best is to eliminate the guess-work and just use the same components and room in the comparison.

Having said that, the 805Di definitely sounds like a winner. Would be interested in getting your impressions after you've got them home and in your own set-up. Wonder how they compare with your old WBs, though sadly you sold off your Classe gear so we might never know. :B The only thing is if you prefer the 805Di's driving by a Denon integrated over the WB driven by Classe separates, then financial wise, you definitely made the right choice! :T

[hifiguymi]

It's like running a dedicated 20A AC line to a 100 watt light bulb. Unless you are running stadium lighting off of that 20A line, it is simply overkill.

Couldn't disagree more. Given the same performance level/brand of amps, I've always heard an improvement with the larger more powerful amplifier. For example, at Rotel RB-1080 sounds better than the RB-1070 on every speaker I've done that comparison on. It doesn't matter if it's on a pair of 600 Series or 800 Series, the RB-1080 sounds better. It doesn't play much louder but it sure sounds better.

Now with that said, a better amp, like a Classe CA-2100, will outperform either RB-1080 or RB-1070 and it's less power than either one of them.

Eric